It is, of course, very unlikely that there will be many cases in which there will be good reasons for regulating the exports of commodities. There are very few commodities exported that we are anxious to restrict. The only commodities that would come within that class are certain raw materials in respect of which there may, at some time, exist a scarcity. At the present time there is, due to exceptional circumstances, a scarcity of scrap iron, and furthermore, various international complications have made it more difficult to procure easily supplies of iron ore. At least that applied last year to some extent until General Franco's forces succeeded in occupying the northern coast of Spain. In any event, there is an exceptional demand for this material and, at any time, that demand may reach such limits that there might be difficulty in securing the supplies necessary to keep our own industries going. It is in such circumstances that the powers conferred by this Bill will be used. It is impossible to indicate what one would regard as normal output or when it is considered necessary to exercise the powers in the Bill. That is a matter upon which individual judgment must be exercised at the time. Some people may hold that these powers should have been taken and operated long ago. It was, in fact, intended to do so. It might be contended that the amount of best scrap iron left in the country was nil, and that we had been dilatory, or that these powers should not be exercised, except in circumstances of very grave emergency. Some individual judgment will have to be brought to bear on the question. The individual carrying the responsibility should be prepared to defend his judgment, but should have power to give effect to his decision if, in his opinion, a decision to restrict exports is required.
It is not altogether a matter of price. The price of scrap iron has gone up recently. It went up and then showed a tendency to fall again. The manner in which the Bill is to work is similar to the Sheepskins Act to which I referred, making it possible to control and to protect the interests of parties engaged in the export of materials. I think it will be agreed that the control of sheepskins was so regulated as to prevent any undue power being given to purchasers of sheepskins to depress prices. While one must have due regard to the necessities of scrap iron the primary consideration must be to ensure that the materials necessary to keep an important industry going are available if international conditions make it impossible to get outside supplies.
There are more iron foundries in the country than the two firms to which Deputy Dillon referred. There are quite a number of firms and there is likely to be sufficient competition between them to secure scrap iron for use in their foundries to enable a fair price to be maintained, without Government regulations at all. I do not think it is likely that many more Bills of this kind will be required. I have been pressed in the Dáil and outside to take power to regulate the export of timber. I do not think the time is altogether ripe for that. It may come some time, and that power to regulate the export of timber would have to be taken. It has been frequently urged in reference to this Bill that the powers should be there, even though not brought into use except in special circumstances. The question of the percentage of scrap iron that iron founders might use is one upon which even experts would hold different opinions. At the moment iron founders think that the percentage of iron ore in use is unusually high. In other words, the difficulty in obtaining scrap iron of a certain quality has compelled them to use a higher percentage of iron ore than would ordinarily be the case, with the result that their production costs have been increased accordingly. Whether that is so I do not know. I do not know what would be regarded as a proper percentage. It would vary according to the class of products. There is a natural limit to the percentage of scrap iron used and I do not think there is any danger that that limit will be exceeded, because quality would deteriorate very rapidly if that happened.
I would not like the impression to go out that the introduction of this Bill has been promoted by the iron founders. It is quite true that there were consultations with the iron founders, in an endeavour to ascertain what their position was in respect of supplies, and what result they anticipated the abnormal demand would have on the available stocks in the country, but the decision to promote the Bill was taken by the Government, with due regard to all the circumstances, and not for the special purpose of protecting the special interests of iron founders, or of any other section of the community. It was considered, in the circumstances which existed last year, that these powers should be there. If we had those powers in the early part of last year we might have felt it necessary to exercise them. The situation changed, however, and the urgency of the Bill became much less; but, it is felt that the circumstances which existed at the beginning of last year may be repeated, in which case the power of regulation should, we feel, be there. Even though regulation may be brought into operation in a purely nominal way in the beginning, it might become more than nominal if certain developments occurred. Every Order, of course, which is made under the Bill will be laid before the Dáil, and it will be in the power of the Dáil to secure the annulment of an Order if it thinks that the circumstances do not justify it.
With regard to the point raised by Deputy Benson, I do not think it would be practicable to get a definition of "scrap iron" which could be inserted in the Bill. The only way in which the Bill can be made effective is by leaving it to the discretion of the Revenue Commissioners to determine what is, or what is not, "scrap iron." In the case of many import duties and import restrictions a similar procedure has to be followed and the judgment of the Revenue Commissioners brought into play.
