Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Feb 1938

Vol. 70 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 16—Superannuation and Retired Allowances.

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim Bhreise ná raghaidh thar £24,500 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1938, chun Pinsean, Aois-Liúntais, Cúitimh, agus Liúntaisí agus Aiscí, breise agus eile, fé Reachtanna Iolardha (4 agus 5 Will. 4, c. 24; 22 Vict., c. 26; 50 agus 51 Vict., c. 67; 55 agus 56 Vict., c. 40; 6 Edw. 7, c. 58; 9 Edw. 7, c. 10; 4 agus 5 Geo. 5, c. 86; 9 agus 10 Geo. 5, c. 67 agus c. 68; 10 agus 11 Geo. 5, c. 36; Uimh. 1 de 1922; Uimh. 34 de 1923; Uimh. 7 de 1925; Uimh. 27 de 1926; Uimh. 11 agus Uimh. 36 de 1929; Uimh. 9 de 1934; Uimh. 39 de 1936; etc.); agus chun Pinsean, Liúntaisí agus Aiscí nách cinn Reachtúla agus a dheon an tAire Airgid; Tuarastal an Dochtúra Réitigh agus corrtháillí do Dhochtúirí, etc.

That a Supplementary sum not exceeding £24,500 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1938, for Pensions, Superannuation, Compensation, and Additional and other Allowances and Gratuities under sundry Statutes (4 and 5 Will. 4, c. 24; 22 Vict. c. 26; 50 and 51 Vict. c. 67; 55 and 56 Vict. c. 40; 6 Edw. 7, c. 58; 9. Edw. 7, c. 10; 4 and 5 Geo. 5, c. 86; 9 and 10 Geo. 5, c. 67 and c. 68; 10 and 11 Geo. 5, c. 36; No. 1 of 1922; No. 34 of 1923; No. 7 of 1925; No. 27 of 1926; No. 11 and No. 36 of 1929; No. 9 of 1934; No. 39 of 1936; etc.); Extra-Statutory Pensions, Allowances, and Gratuities awarded by the Minister for Finance; the Salary of the Medical Referee and occasional fees to Doctors; etc.

This sum is required to meet expenditure and additional allowances and gratuities in respect of established officers under the Superannuation Act, 1909. The original Estimate provision has proved inadequate to meet the charges arising in the course of the present financial year, due to the retirement of a considerable number of senior officers resulting in an unusually heavy grant of additional allowances.

Mr. Dillon

That increase does not include any persons retiring under the Treaty terms?

Mr. MacEntee

I should not like to commit myself to the statement that it does not, but, in the main, it does not.

Mr. Dillon

But it could?

Mr. MacEntee

It quite possibly could.

Mr. Dillon

The Minister is satisfied in his mind that there are no claims arising out of the Treaty, in the way of retirements in consequence of Article X, outstanding for decision for an undue length of time?

Mr. MacEntee

Of course, the Deputy will understand that in this matter I am not in a position to determine whether the time during which these claims would be outstanding would be unduly long or not. I have no control over the board that deals with that matter at all.

Mr. Dillon

Perhaps the Minister would examine the records of his Department to ascertain whether any question has arisen in the Department which has operated to delay a decision on claims arising in respect of pension rights with a view to expediting a determination on any question in which his Department is concerned and so allow an award to be made.

Mr. MacEntee

All that I can say for the Deputy's information is that I know of one case which has been outstanding, a case of very grave difficulty in which it is desired to ensure that the person affected shall receive as much as he possibly can within the terms of the law.

Mr. Dillon

Quite.

Mr. Heron

Would the Minister say if he is making any provision in the Estimate for pensions for unestablished service in the Civil Service? The Minister is, no doubt, aware that in a great many cases officers in the Civil Service have had long periods of unestablished service prior, to their establishment. The Minister has power under the existing superannuation regulations to allow such service for pension purposes. I should be glad to know if the Minister proposes to use that power in the case of the officers concerned, and whether any provision has been made in the Estimate for it?

Mr. MacEntee

No provision is made here to meet any expenditure which would arise out of a change in the policy which has hitherto been pursued in my Department in that matter.

Mr. Dockrell

Surely there is some factor that has not yet been disclosed or explained by the Minister? I take it that these superannuation and retiring allowances are made up each year from statistics that must, more or less, be following along well-established lines. The original Estimate in this case was £38,000 and now we have a revised Estimate of £62,000, an increase of roughly 50 per cent. This is a matter that ought to be fairly well established according to averages. The discrepancy between the two Estimates seems to me to be extraordinary. I suggest to the Minister that there must be some factor that has brought about such an extraordinary difference on a question that ought to be fairly calculable.

Mr. MacEntee

I am advised that, in the main, the necessity for this Supplementary Estimate arises out of a number of retirements, some unforeseen, but principally out of an abnormally large number of retirements of senior officers.

Vote agreed to and reported.