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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Feb 1938

Vol. 70 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 63—Posts and Telegraphs.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim Bhreise ná raghaidh thar £50,000 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1938, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an Aire Puist agus Telegrafa (45 agus 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. VII, c. 48; 1 agus 2 Geo. V, c. 26; na hAchtanna Telegrafa, 1863 go 1928, etc.); agus Seirbhísí áirithe eile atá fé riaradh na hOifige sin.

That a Supplementary sum not exceeding £50,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1938, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. VII, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. V, c. 26; The Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1928, etc.), and of certain other Services administered by that Office.

The increased provision here is necessitated mainly by increased staff, a higher cost-of-living bonus, higher cost of material, extended provincial postal facilities and telephone service developments. The specific reasons for the increases in the various sub-heads are shown in Part III of the Estimate. Roughly, the amounts assignable to the causes mentioned are, staff increases, £19,000, including increases due to telephone development; cost-of-living bonus, £29,000; increased postal facilities in the provinces, £16,000, and increased cost of materials, £7,000. Smaller items are £2,580 for the acquisition of sites, £445 for the purchase of an accounting machine and the payment of certain accounts from the 1936-37 account, and £675 for defalcations by a sub-postmaster. Offsetting the total gross amount of £74,680 are increased Appropriations-in-Aid, £4,615 and savings on other sub-heads amounting to £20,065. The savings are mainly due to a lower payment than anticipated having to be made from sub-heads E (1) and E (2) for the conveyance of mails by rail and road, and to the expenditure on the installation of equipment for and operating and maintaining civil aviation, and meteorological services being less than provided. That was £14,200.

The Minister refers to part of this Vote being required for the meteorological service. In that connection I would like to afford him an opportunity to-day of explaining something which has given rise to considerable surprise. That surprise may be due to a misunderstanding and, therefore, I would be glad if the Minister would clear up the misunderstanding now. I understand that experts were recently employed to assist in the meteorological operations which the Minister has in mind, and these experts were brought from Germany, or from the Continent rather, while there were a number of young scientists in this country eminently suited for the position. I do not by any means take up the position that no foreigner ought to get employment in this country, or that no man, Englishman or German, ought to be able to earn his living in Ireland. If every foreign country applied that doctrine to us there would be a queer army of people out of jobs sent back to us. On the contrary, I would like merit to be the sole criterion in granting a position in this country.

I would like positions of that kind, involving a knowledge of science, or art, or literature, to be thrown open to the whole world, and let an Englishman, American, Pole or Greek, if he is superior in scientific learning or in the particular branch of learning required for the position, get the job, if he is better than the Irish candidates, just in the same way as Irish candidates go up for positions in Great Britain, Germany, America and elsewhere, and, if they are superior, they get the job. What I do object to is the filling of positions of this kind without any preliminary test, and under those circumstances, going abroad and bringing in strangers who have given no evidence whatever of their superior ability. Therefore, I would like the Minister to tell us if it is true that, without conducting any examination or test, two gentlemen were brought from somewhere in middle Europe to fill two positions in connection with the meteorological service in this country, and, if it is true, how can he defend it?

The other matter is a matter of detail. I see the estimate for uniform clothing comes up for review. I am sure all Deputies have noticed the uniforms of the postmen and the telegraph messengers in this country. All will readily recognise that the contract for supplying that clothing is very considerable and valuable, and we ought to use that great buying power in the hands of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs to help in the production of some desirable product. If you notice the textile from which a postman's uniform is made, it is a hairy, disagreeable kind of cloth that you could not imagine anybody using for anything else but a postman's uniform. Why should we not attire our postmen in a navy serge, I cannot imagine. Such a uniform would last longer, would look better, and would provide our manufacturers of navy serges and black serges with an increased volume of output which would enable them to bring their methods of manufacture up to a higher level.

One of the great difficulties of the woollen industry in this country is to get navy serges, black serges with a proper finish. I think one of the reasons why that difficulty exists is because our mills cannot hope to have as great a market for that commodity as the competing English mills have. Oddly enough, there is only one texture in which Great Britain completely wipes us off the map, and that is in the navy serge or the black serge. I do not think that either of these made in England are intrinsically superior to ours. It is only in this matter of the finish; and the difficulty of installing machinery to get the right finish arises from the want of an adequate market. Now, here is an opportunity to get a market at least for one mill or for several mills. I now suggest to the Minister to consult the Minister for Industry and Commerce to know whether a change-over to navy serge would not be a useful change and a very helpful one in improving the production of that particular commodity in our woollen mills. I am certain it would very much improve the appearance and comfort of the servants of the Post Office, and that is no small matter.

I want to refer to item D—purchase of sites, etc., postal and telegraphs services only, £2,580. There is a note that this is due to the acquisition of new premises at Carlow and a building site in St. Andrew Street, Dublin. I do not know what the premises at Carlow are worth, but assuming that they are worth nothing and that the whole £2,580 is paid for the site in St. Andrew Street, Dublin, I have nothing but praise for the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he has purchased that site for £2,580. At the same time I would like to remind him about a previous discussion in connection with that site which I raised on these Estimates last year. I was anxious then, as St. Andrew Street is more or less a traffic artery, that the entire roadway should not be blocked up by post office vans being left outside the premises, and I was anxious that the Minister should make arrangements that provision should be made for having the post office vans taken inside and the thoroughfare left clear. When I raised the matter last year I was told that someone else had purchased the site and was going to put up a building there and that the post office were really only tenants in the new buildings. But they cannot be tenants if they have purchased the site. I would like the Minister to tell the House whether proper notice has been taken of the suggestion made last year, namely, that provision should be made inside the site for the vans to come in out of the way of the through traffic. Also, I would like some explanation as to whether the Minister has obtained that site for the sum which has been put down here.

As to the question raised by Deputy Dillon, that is in respect to the meteorological officers I cannot definitely say if the statement made is correct because in the first instance I did not come armed with that type of information. That question would be more in keeping with the general Estimate rather than with a Supplementary Estimate, so I cannot give any definite information with respect to that. With reference to the point raised about the uniforms there would, of course, be the question of the additional cost that may arise therefrom. I do not know that the difference between the cost of the change would be such as to make it impossible to get ahead with that style of uniform. However, I will undertake to have that matter explored in the Department. With respect to Deputy Dockrell's remarks I have no doubt that in these modern times care will be taken with respect to having some kind of a well within the building in which cars will be brought in loaded and sent off again. That area is very congested and I do not know if it will be possible, in view of the traffic problem, to have the suggestions made carried out. The matter will be given serious consideration. The site in St. Andrew Street is, I think, the property of the Department of Industry and Commerce.

No, the Department of Agriculture.

I am not sure about that. We merely rented the site. The main portion of this money is for the purpose of the Carlow site. I think that meets the questions raised by Deputy Dockrell. I do not think there is anything else that I can usefully add.

I do not think the Minister has quite answered my points. He has either rented the site or he is buying it. It cannot be half way. We have the statement here about acquisition. I do not know how the Minister reconciles renting with acquisition.

The assistant-secretary now tells me that the site has been purchased by the Post Office. This figure in the Estimate is only an excess amount.

Then the Minister is not renting the site?

Then you are your own landlords, and if there is any disregard of the ordinary traffic regulations it will be the fault of the post office. Remember the case was made last year that the Minister could not do anything because really they were only renting part of the building, and the building would have to be put up by the landlord according to his own ideas. I am glad to hear from the Minister that the site has been purchased by the post office. In this connection might I suggest to the Minister that he should set a good example to other people by setting back that site somewhat so as to add to the width of the thoroughfare. The Minister might remember that the throughfare is between that building and St. Andrew's church and it will be possible to widen the road only by setting back the post office or the church. I suggest to the Minister before finally making up his mind that he will consider the points I have put before him.

Deputy Dockrell could not wipe out the facts.

I do not want to wipe out the facts. Deputy Kelly knows the site and he knows what is opposite it.

The church or the bank — which will it be?

The important thing to do is to secure that Deputy T.Kelly will not be ground between the upper and the lower mill stone. Will the Minister look into the points I raised?

There is one point I want to raise and that is the question of the remuneration given to the postmasters in those small post offices scattered throughout the country. These offices have to handle a very seasonal amount of work sometimes of a very heavy character. Is it possible that they would be given something like decent remuneration when additional work of a heavy character has been added to their duties? Cases have been brought to my notice in which hardship exists.

That depends on the volume of business. If there is a seasonal increase, it has an effect on the emoluments.

To what degree?

To whatever extent it arises.

Vote agreed to and reported.

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