Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 May 1938

Vol. 71 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Prices Commission (Extension of Functions) Bill, 1938—Money Resolution.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Lemass)

I move:—

That it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas of any expenses incurred in carrying into execution any Act of the present session to extend the functions of the Prices Commission.

It is impossible to say what additional cost will fall upon the Vote by reason of the extension of the staff in consequence of these new duties. It is all the more difficult by reason of the fact that the Prices Commission is now only beginning to get under way, and an additional staff would be required in any event to enable it to carry out its functions as a Prices Commission. However, whatever staff will be required to enable it to carry out both its functions will be afforded to it.

Mr. Dillon

In connection with this, the question has arisen as to whether interested parties appearing before the Prices Commission can appear by counsel, and it has been decided, apparently, that they may not. Under the new conditions in which we have, by this International Agreement, given certain British manufacturers the right to make a case before the Prices Commission, is it not desirable that that decision should be reviewable?

Mr. Lemass

It is a matter entirely for the Prices Commission. The commission regulates its own procedure. In the case of a prices investigation they decided that they did not want representation by counsel, but that they wanted the witness concerned there for the purpose of examination and cross-examination and thereby getting the information they required. Possibly they might decide that different conditions may apply in the case of a tariff review under this Bill, but it is entirely a matter for them to decide.

Mr. Moore

Well, on that point, supposing there were to be an application by an English manufacturer for the reduction of a tariff here, the Irish firm, that might be on its defence, possibly might be denied the assistance of counsel.

Mr. Lemass

As I have said, it is a matter for the commission to decide.

Mr. Dillon

Deputy Moore's point is an interesting one, because you might have an English firm peculiarly well equipped to make their case here, and an Irish firm suffering under some difficulties in that respect—having, say, two or three good technical men on the board, but men not accustomed to standing up and making a case before a tribunal; and they might be at a material disadvantage if they were not given permission to oppose good advocates on the side of the British industry with equally good advocates on the side of the Irish industry. I quite see the Minister's difficulty, and that he does not want to intervene and override the commission's discretion, but nevertheless I think it is a matter to which some thought should be given. I do not ask the Minister to give a snap decision on it now, but it is worth thinking over, and I am sure the commission would give great weight to any representation the Minister would make to them. I think that Deputy Moore's point is worth thinking over and possibly worth making a representation to the commission from the Minister.

Mr. Lemass

I admit that there are different circumstances in the case of a tariff review from those in the case of a prices investigation, but, clearly, you must leave the matter to the commission to decide for themselves. In the case of a prices investigation, I fully agree with the decision to exclude legal representation. The attitude of the commission is that they want to hear accountants and not lawyers, and I consider that they were quite sound in that attitude. Where a tariff review is being carried out, however, different circumstances arise, and I am quite sure the Prices Commission will allow due weight to those circumstances.

Mr. Dockrell

I take it that a position would not arise in which there would be legal advice on one side and not on the other?

Mr. Lemass

The Deputy may take it that that will not arise. Whatever ruling is given by the commission will apply to everybody.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolution agreed to and reported.

Mr. Lemass

I take it, Sir, with regard to the next Bill, that I had better move Financial Motions Nos. 8 to 12, inclusive, and the Second Reading of the Bill?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The whole discussion can take place on No. 8.

Mr. Lemass

Nos. 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 are all just sections of the Bill.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Yes.