Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 11 May 1938

Vol. 71 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 56—Gaeltacht Services.

Mr. Boland

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £56,783 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí i dtaobh Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta, maraon le Deontaisí um Thógáil Tithe.

That a sum not exceeding £56,783 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1939, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Gaeltacht Services, including Housing Grants.

Seán O Gráda

Tá £91,783 curtha isteach mar Mheastachán i gcóir Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta le haghaidh na bliana dar críoch 31adh Márta, 1939. Tá an méid sin £2,644 níos mó ná mar a bhí Meastachán na bliana anuraidh.

Idir na Fó-Mhírchinn go léir tá £7,482 níos mó ann ná mar a bhí anuraidh, ach ina choinne sin tá laghdú £5,893 ann chomh maith.. Ina theannta sin tá laghdú £1,055 ins na Leithreasaí-i-gCabhair.

Chun mion-eolas do thabhairt ar an méadú atá ann, budh mhaith liom a rádh go bhfuil £3,770 ag teastáil i mbliana thar mar a bhí anuraidh chun Monarchan na mBréagán i gCuan Eilidhe do chur ag obair, ábhar do cheannach, agus costaisí iomchair agus costaisí eile a bhaineann leis d'ioc. Chomh maith leis an méadú sin cosnóchaidh na Tionnscail Tuaithe £2,085 níos mó, idir ábhair agus costaisí eile, ná mar a dheineadar anuraidh agus cosnóchaidh costaisí marguiochta £590 níos mó leis.

Ar an dtaobh eile den sgéal tá laghdú £620 ins na tuarasdail i gcóir na hÁrd-Oifige, laghdu £2,443 i gcóir Tionnscal Mara agus laghdú £2,500 i gcóir Tithe na Gaeltachta.

Ins na Fó-Mhírchinn a bhaineann le Tionnscail Tuaithe tá timcheall agus £300 de mhéadú toisc é bheith beartuithe beirt Bhan-Bhainisteoirí eile do cheapadh don dá ionad chniotála nua atá le hoscailt sara fada sa bhFód Dubh, Co. Mhuigheó, agus i mBun Beag, Co. Dún na nGall, agus ina theannta san, fuireann do sholáthar do Thionnscal na Bréagán.

Tá £90 de laghdú i bhFó-Mhírcheann D 2 toisc go bhfuair Teagascóir bás ag ceann des na clochair. Tá sé socair le tamall anuas gan folúntas den tsórt do líonadh.

Tá athruithe fé Fó-Mhírchinn D 3, D 4, agus D 5, ach ní mór iad. Sé is cuis leis an méadú fé D 5 ná scéim atá ann chun úrlaisí agus fearaistí a bhíonn in úsáid ins na tionnscail do choimeád i gceart agus i gcóir, agus na seanchinn do chur as feidhm do réir mar is gádh nuair a bhíonn siad caithte amach is amach. Tá airgead ann leis chun úrlaisí breise do cheannach.

Tá glaodh maith ar earraí na dTionnscal so againne anois, agus tá súil agam gur ag dul i bhfeabhas a bheidh an scéal so. Mar sin, cuireadh isteach breis airgid fé Fhó-Mhírcheann D 6, chun ábhair agus eile a bheidh ag teastáil do cheannach. Sé an dála céadna éle Fó-Mhírcheann D 7, ina bhfuil breis bheag mar ná raibh go leor ann anuraidh.

Baineann Fó-Mhírcheann D 8 le Tionnscal na mBréagán, ach measaim nach gádh aon mhíniú do thabhairt air. Tá sé soiléir go leor ann féin.

Maidir le Ceilp agus Carraigín, tá laghdú ins na Meastacháin ach ní chuirfidh an laghdú san isteach ar an ngnó Tá an Roinn toilteannach an Cheilp ar fad a bheidh le díol do cheannach. Cuireadh airgead isteach ins na Meastacháin anuraidh chun mile tonna Ceilpe agus roinnt feamainne do cheannach, ach ní raibh le fagháil ach timcheall is cheithre chéad tonna ceilpe agus tuairim is seasca tonna den fheamainn. Tá ár ndóithin airgid curtha isteach i mbliana chun sé chéad tonna ceilpe agus cheithre chéad tonna feamainne do cheannach. Niltear ag súil le níos mó ná sin, ach má bhíonn níos mó le fagháil ceannóchar é, agus rud eile, dhe, beidh luach níos fearr le fagháil ar an gCeilp i mbliana thar mar a bhí anuraidh. Níl an ceannach céadna ar Charraigín mar bhiadh agus a bhíodh, ach tá iarracht á dhéanamh ag an Roinn Carraigín mar bhiadh do chur ar an margadh déanta suas ina mhalairt do shlighe, agus tá súil leis go n-éirgheóidh leis an iarracht so. Tá an ghlaodh atá ar ghnáth-Charraigín go maith agus tá an Roinn sásta leis an socrú atá déanta le Comhlucht Gnótha lasmuich chun an Carraigín do cheannach. Leis an socrú so ní fhanann aon Charraigín gan ceannach agus, tríd is tríd, íoctar praghas maith air.

Maidir leis na Fó-Mhírchinn F 1, F 2, agus F 3, a bhaineann le díol na n-earraí, ní dóigh liom gur gádh aon chur síos ró-mhór do dhéanamh ortha.

Tá breis bheag fé F 1, ach sé is cúis leis sin ná go bhfuil Bainisteóir Conganta ceaptha anois a dhéanfaidh gréas an bhréidín a ghlacadh mar chúram fé leith air féin. B'éigean, leis, fear do cheapadh chun aire do thabhairt do sna bréagáin a bheidh le díol, ach san am chéadna ní gádh fear fé leith ón Roinn a bheith ag an Seomra Teasbeántais feasta mar tá socrú déanta leis an bhfear a dhiolann na hearraí go ndéanfaidh seisean freastal ann.

Tá méadú fé Fó-Mhírcheann F 3 de bhárr feabhas bheith tagtha ar ghnáthchúrsaí tráchtála na Roinne.

Tá airgead curtha isteach i bhFó-Mhírcheann G chun baid do cheannach i gcóir seirbhísí iomchair agus tá sé i gceist an tseirbhís idir Dún na Séad agus Oileán Cléire, Co. Chorcaighe, do fheabhsú, agus ceann a bhunú idir Oileán Chliara, Co. Mhuigheó, agus an tír mhór. Má bhíonn iarrataisí ann le haghaidh iasachtaí eile tá airgead beag curtha isteach ionnus go mbeadh údarás ann, agus déanfar gach iarratas a thagann fén údarás sin do bhreithniú go cúramach.

Ní gádh aon chur-síos fé leith do dhéanamh ar an ngnáthatharú atá ar an Meastachán do thuarasdal agus costaisí na nOifigeach a bhaineann le Scéim Tighthe na Gaeltachta. Tá laghdú £1,500 ar an Meastachán do dheontaisí, ach níl annsan ach iarracht ar an Meastachán do thabhairt comhgarach don tsuim airgid a caitheadh le trí bliana anuas.

Tá Fó-Mhírcheann H 4 ann i gcóir cróite cearc agus muc sa Ghaeltacht; bhí Meastachán Breise dó so anuraidh, le réidhteach mí-thuisgiona a thárla i dtaobh brígh an Achta. Tá an tsuim airgid a luaidhtear anois curtha isteach do sna cásanna inar tosnuigheadh ar an obair sara bhfuarthas amach an dearmhad so, agus go mba éagcóir gan iad a chríochnú.

Tá timpeal £1,000 de laghdú ar na Meastacháin atá déanta ar na Leithreasaí-i-gCabhair agus tá an laghdú so, nach mór ar fad, bunuithe ar na fáltaisí le n-a bhfuil súil ó Cheilp agus ó Charraigín. Tá dóchas ann go mbeidh an scéal so i bhfad níos fearr ach ní féidir deimhin do dhéanamh de.

Chífear ón bhFó-Mhírcheann le haghaidh Leithreasaí-i-gCabhair cad é an méid airgid a híocfar leis na hoibritheóirí. Tá an t-airgead san ag árdú ó bhliain go bliain agus is mór le rádh an méid sin, mar is chuige seo tá na Tionnscail ann chor ar bith. Tá an ráta páighe go maith leis, agus tá na hoibritheóirí sásta. Is féidir a rádh anois go bhfuil obair gan stad á soláthar ar feadh na bliana, go bhfuil tuarasdal sásúil á thuilleamh, go bhfuil an lucht saothair sásta agus gur ag dul i dtreise agus i dtairbhighe atá an obair i gcoitinne. Maidir leis seo, chífear gur méaduigheadh an Meastachán i gcóir tuarasdail ó £12,500 i gcóir na bliana anuraidh go dtí £16,500 i gcóir na bliana so.

Mar a dubhradh cheana ní mór dhá Ionad nua d'oscailt-ceann i mBun Beag agus ceann ar an bhFód Dubh-de bharr méadú ar an tionnscal cniotála. Tá an ghlaodh fós ar na hearraí i dtionnscal na figheadóireachta, agus tá súil leis go mbeidh in ár gcumas a lán oibre do thabhairt do sna figheadóirí i gCill Chárthaigh, i nGleann Chuilm Chille agus in Ard a' Rátha arís i mbliana.

Sé an cuspóir atá ag an Roinn ná an margadh is fearr d'fhagháil agus do choimeád agus san do dhéanamh le hearraí foghanta a bheadh déanta as ábhair foghanta do chur ar díol, agus iad do bheith ar fagháil nuair a theastóidís ón gceannaí. Tá cóir mhaith oibre dá chur i bhfeidhm chun ar gcuid earraí do chur ar díol ar fuaid na tíre. Ní bheidh síopa éadaigh sa dúthaigh ná beidh gníomhaire ón Roinn ag tabhairt cuaird air feasta. An luach a bheidh á éileamh ar na hearraí beidh sé déanta amach sa ghnáth-shlighe, sé sin, beidh sé bunuithe ar chostas na n-ábhar, costas na hoibre, costas iomchair agus na mion-chostaisí uile, mar aon le cothrom de chostas na hOifige.

Is féidir a rádh go bhfuil tosnuithe ar Thionnscal na mBréagán i gCuan Eilidhe. Tá an gléas oibre curtha isteach agus táthar le fiche buachaill agus fiche cailín, atá tar éis oiliúint d'fhagháil i gCéard-Scoil Bhéal an Mhuirthid, do chur ag obair aon lá feasta. Is fiú £20,000 an margadh atá againn sa tír seo d'earraí den t-saghas atáthar le déanamh san Ionad so, agus tá brath againn ar roinnt mhaith den mhargadh san d'fhagháil dár gcuid earraí féin.

I gcúrsaí Ceilpe, is cosúil go bhfuil deire leis an margadh a bhi ann don Iodin, ach má tá féin, tá an Roinn tar éis margadh eile d'fhagháil do Cheilp. Tá ghlaodh ar cheilp mheilte sa Bhreatain Mhór le n-a chur sa bhiada do stoc agus tá praghas cuibheasach maith le fagháil uirthe le n-a aghaidh sin. Deintear an Cheilp do mheilt i gCathair na Gaillimhe agus tá deall ramh ar an scéal go mbeidh fás ag teacht i ndiaidh a chéile ar an margadh so. Tá an Roinn ag faire amach do mhargadh d'fhagháil don fheamainn féin, sé sin, feamain thirm ón gcósta, agus i láthair na huaire tá an scéal so dá phléidhe le dhá Chomhlucht ag a bhfuil suim san earra. Tá socrú nach mór déanta le ceann acu chun cúig céad tonna do dhiol leo. Thairis sin, tá súil leis go mbeidh glaodh i mbliana ar fheamainn mheilte agus go mbeidh luach maith le fagháil uirthi.

Is mian liom a rádh annso go bhfuil cabhair agus có-oibriú againn á fhagháil ó sna Ranna eile Riaghaltais leis an gcúram atá orainn, agus de bharr an chó-oibrithe sin go bhfuil breis mhór airgid á chaitheamh ar ghnóthaibh Riaghaltais ar fuaid na Gaeltachta. Is mian liom chomh maith mo bhuidheachas do ghabháil leis na hUdaráis Áitiúla atá tar éts cabhrú linn go fonnmhar in obair seo na Gaeltachta.

Mícheál Og MacPháidín

Má tá locht ar bith agam-sa ar obair na Roinne seo 'sé nach bhfuil go leor airgid á chaitheamh aca no go leor oibreacha seasmhacha no monarchain á gcur ar bun aca sa Ghaedhealtacht. Ní thig liom a rádh go bhfuil an Rialtas chomh fial no comh flaitheamhail le Bórd na gCeanntar gCumhang nuair a bhí sé faoi lán-réim seoil againn dhá fhichid bliadhain ó shoin. Tá monarchain go lor dá dtógail ar fud lár na tíre sa Ghalldacht-monarchain alcohol agus siúcra-acht, faraor, níl dadaidh mar sin don Ghaedhealtacht. Agus nuair a chidhmid chom réidh fiúntach as bhí an Rialtas do Roscré agus áiteacha mar é is léir dúinn nach bhfuil an Ghaedhealtacht ag fághail Comhthrom na Féinne. Ceist mhór náisiúnta ceist na Gaedhealtachta agus badh chóir go gcuirfeadh Rialtas Gaedheal níos mó suime ann. Tá dualgas náisiúnta ar an Rialtas na daoine so a thógáil as umair an bhochtanais agus iad a chur ar a mbonnaí arís. Ná bíodh sinne truaillighe no ceachardha leo.

Tá cainnt agus callán fá dhúnta agus cuanta na nGall san tír seo san am i láthair. D'réir gach tuairisce béidh ualach mór cosdais ar an tír le linn na dúnta so tharraingt orrainn. B'fhearr liom-sa dá gcaithfi an t-airgead so ar dhúnta na nGaedheal san Ghaedhealtacht. Seo iad na dúnta is fiú a chosaint agus ní dúnta na nGall. Is ionnta a taisgeadh na seódaí is luachmhaire atá againn, sin teanga agus nósaí agus glan-intinn an Ghaedhil. Bhí lúthgháir orm nuair a dubhairt an Taoiseach ag Feis Bhaile Atha Cliath i mbliadhna go rabh cabhair uainn, " 'un an Ghaedhilic a chonneail beo ins na háiteanna ina labhairtear mar ghnáth-theangain í agus í a leathadh ar fud na tíre go léir".

Ma tá rún ag an Rialtas sin a dhéanamh caithfidh siad an Gaedheal a bhunú go daingean ar a thalamh dhúthchais agus slighe bheatha a sheiftiú dó. Is maith leis an Ghaedheal bheith ag obair-ná saoil gur fallsóir é. Acht ar ndóigh níor gheall Dia ariamh don Ghaedheal go mbéadh sé go síorraidhe i muinighin oibreacha fóirthine ar na bealtaigh móra no ar lorg na déirce. Nach dtig linn oibreacha oireamhnacha, oibreacha seasmhacha d'fhagháil dó má támuid i ndáiríribh a cheart a thabhairt do Ghaedheal na Gaedhealtachta.

Badh cheart don Rialtas an iascaireacht ar chósdaí an iarthair a chosaint níos fearr do na hiascairí. Níl amhras nach bhfuil an iascaireacht sin scriosta millte ag tráiléirí na Sasan agus caithfear cosg a chur leó so. Nach dtig leis an Rialtas réidhteach no socrú dhéanamh leis an tSasanach anois— thárla iad chomh mór le chéile—an cabhlach tráiléiri seo árdú leo o chósdaí na hÉireann. Tá an iascaireacht atá againn beag go leor ag ar mbunadh fhéin.

Caithfimid an Gaedheal óg a chongbhail san bhaile agus a intinn a thógáil o thíorthaibh coimhthigheacha. Níl féidhm dom labhairt annso ar na taismí uathbhásacha a thárla do mhuinntir Arainn agus Acla tá seal o shoin. Mholfainn féin go láidir don Rialtas duaiseanna a thabhairt do lánamhaineacha óga a phósfadh agus a bhainfeadh fútha san Ghaeltacht rachfainn níos fuide agus thógfainn tighthe dhóibh. Ní thabhairfinn ar siubhal iad ó n-a mbaile dhúthchais. Seo an dóigh cheart leis na cainteoirí dúthchais a mhéadú agus an Ghaedhilic a leathadh ar fud na tíre mar badh mhaith leis an Taoiseach. Níl caoi no bealach pósda ag na daoine bochta seo fá láthair agus níl na páisdí ag éirghe aníos chugainn. Tá na scolta ar bheagán scoláirí agus níl na tighthe pobail leath-lán. Mar chidhim-se an scéal rachaidh an Ghaedhealtacht 'un báine má ghnidhthear neamairt níos fuide innte. Sin leigheas a mholfainn don Rialtas. Táthar á dhéanamh so ar mhór-roinn na hEorpa agus níl leith scéal ar bith againn gan é a dhéanamh in Eirinn. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil an Roinn ag deanamh saothar mór le hobair a thabhairt do na figheadóirí i dTír Chonaill atá ag fighe éadaigh an Chluig Thuir. Acht thiocfadh an obair seo a mhéadú go mór. Is léir le mórán daoine a thuigeas an scéal go dtiocfadh a dheich n-oiread den éadach so a chur 'un margaidh gach bliadhain dá mbéadh gléas ceart díolachin ag an Roinn. Bíonn na figheadóirí díomhaoin go minic agus thiocfadh níos mó figh eadóirí a chur i gcionn oibre. Badh chóir go ndéanfaí scrúdú cúramach ar an taoibh seo den scéal agus gléas díolaidheachta níos fearr a bheith ag an Roinn ná mar tá fá láthair. Tá súil agam go dtiocfaidh sruth órduightheacha don éadach so de bharr na dtaisbeántas i Lonndain i nGlascú agus in Nuadh-Eabhrac agus san bhaile againn féin.

Rud eile: badh chóir go mbéadh níos mó d'ár snáth féin agus ár n-olann féin san éadach seo. Is maith liom a fheiceál san leabhar mheastachán go bhfuil rún ag an Roinn monarcha sníomhachain a chur ar bun i nGaedhealtacht Thír Chonaill. Sin céim mhór ar aghaidh ar an chasán ceart. Tásúil agam go rachfar ar aghaidh leis an mhonarchain seo gan mhoill-nach mbeidh Roinn an Airgid ag congbháil cúil air. Obair mar so atá de dhitheamhail orainn san Ghaedhealtacht agus ní caint bhlasda ár gcur ó dhoras. Ní chothuigheann na briathra na bráithre.

Mr. Roddy

The story that the Parliamentary Secretary unfolded to the House a short time ago is certainly not calculated, I think, to inspire enthusiasm amongst Deputies. It was a dismal statement from beginning to end, and it does not hold out any hope or encouragement whatever for the unfortunate people in the Gaeltacht. Those members of the present House who were members of the Dáil in 1930 and 1931 can recall the speeches that were made by the Fianna Fáil Party when they were in Opposition, regarding the terrible conditions prevailing in the Gaeltacht and the necessity for doing something practical to relieve these conditions. Now they have been in office for six years, and at the end of that six year period the position is such as the Parliamentary Secretary has been forced to admit in the Dáil this evening. In almost every single activity there has been a decline. It is no use for the Parliamentary Secretary to say, as he used to say some few years ago, that owing to world conditions it is impossible to make any progress in the development of industries in the Gaeltacht. It is perfectly true that world conditions may, to some extent, affect the kelp industry and the carrageen industry, but world conditions have not affected other industries in the Gaeltacht to any extent whatever. What is the position in regard to kelp, which after all was a very big source of income to the small farmers living along the seaboard in the years prior to 1932, when the Fianna Fáil Party first became the Government in this country? In 1931 kelp fetched a price of from £8 to £10 a ton; in fact, in some cases it went as high as £12 a ton. The Minister tells us to-day that the best price he can offer to the kelp gatherers is £4 a ton. Last year kelp fetched only from £2 to £3 a ton, and even then only a limited quantity was purchased. This year there was a further decline in the amount purchased. Last year it was 1,000 tons. This year the Parliamentary Secretary states he will not be able to purchase more than 600 tons. Is that correct?

Mr. O'Grady

No.

Mr. Roddy

Approximately 600 tons at a price of £4 a ton. Surely the Parliamentary Secretary should have offered some better reason than the reason contained in his statement for the huge drop in the price of kelp in the last few years. The Parliamentary Secretary should have made some effort to explain the reason why the gatherers of kelp are being forced to sell at a price of £4 per ton, seeing that up to five or six years ago it was fetching £8 to £10 per ton, and even as high as £12 per ton. The Parliamentary Secretary himself stated last year that he anticipated that there would be a better demand for kelp, but according to his statement this evening the demand will be even worse than last year, although the price may be slightly higher. Two years ago the Parliamentary Secretary told us that he was engaged in carrying out certain experiments for the purpose of ascertaining whether, in view of the declining market for kelp, it was not possible to utilise the kelp product in the manufacture of certain classes of feeding stuffs and in the manufacture of certain high class manures. I should be interested to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary to what extent these experiments have progressed, or have the experiments been abandoned since. Is he depending entirely on selling kelp to chemists on the other side for the purpose of conducting these experiments which I understand were begun on this side? In any event, the fact of the matter is that the kelp industry is practically a dead letter, because it would not pay small farmers who. live along the seaboard to gather kelp and sell it at the price which the Minister is prepared to offer this season. Every Deputy who has any acquaintance with conditions along the seaboard knows that kelp gathering is the hardest kind of work in which any man could engage. The kelp has to be gathered under exceedingly trying conditions. Generally the best kelp is gathered when the weather is probably at its very worst. The price of £4 per ton which the Minister holds out as an inducement is certainly very unattractive, and is not very likely to induce many people to engage in the work. I should be very anxious to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary, when he is replying, what are the prospects for the kelp industry. Is there any hope at all of reviving it, or has he definitely and finally come to the. conclusion that the industry is dying, and that it is useless to waste any further effort in trying to revive it? One can only assume from his statement to-day that he has more or less come to that conclusion already. I should be glad if he would further state whether it is possible to utilise the raw kelp for any of the purposes which he indicated to the House some two years ago, either as a constituent of certain animal foods or as a constituent of very high class manures, and to what extent the experiments on which I understand he was engaged some two years ago have proved successful. The report goes on to deal with seaweed. I think last year also the Minister gave the people along the seaboard and in the Gaeltacht to understand that there was likely to be a market for seaweed some time before the end of last year, but as a matter of fact even in this report to-day he can hold out no hope whatever that there is going to be such a market for seaweed. Last year the people along the seaboard gathered seaweed in the hope that the Minister would be able to fulfil his promise of finding a market for it, but no such market has materialised, nor is it likely to materialise in the future.

With regard to Gaeltacht housing, that was a favourite subject of Fianna Fáil Deputies, especially those Deputies from the Gaeltacht, in the days when we were the Government of this country. They were always stressing the needs of the unfortunate people in the Gaeltacht for better housing conditions. Now, let us see what the Fianna Fáil Government has done with regard to housing conditions in the Gaeltacht. In reply to a Parliamentary question from Deputy Mongan on 7th December of last year the Parliamentary Secretary stated that in the financial year 1930 to 1931 the sum of £47,752 was set aside for the purposes of Gaeltacht housing. That was, I think, the first year that the Gaeltacht Housing Act came into operation. In the following year, 1931-32, the sum of £125,640 was set aside for that purpose, and in the financial year 1935-36-the last year with which this Parliamentary question deals-the sum of £42,000 was set aside by the present Government for the purposes of Gaeltacht housing. Taking the amounts set aside by the two Governments during the years dealt with in the question, the previous Government spent £13,000 more on housing in the Gaeltacht in the two financial years 1930-31 and 1931-32 than the present Government spent in the four years from 1932 to 1936. I notice in this year's Estimate that there is a still further diminution in the amount of money set aside for Gaeltacht housing. Last year the sum of £49,000 was set aside, and this year the amount is reduced by approximately £1,500. I understand from a report which I read I think some time last year that only one-third of the houses which are really necessary had been erected in the Gaeltacht. May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary why it is that these activities have declined so much? Have the officials engaged in supervising the housing operations in the Gaeltacht been withdrawn from this work, or is it that the Department is not getting the same work out of those officials as we were getting in the years 1930 and 1931? The fact is at all events that there has been a considerable diminution in housing in the Gaeltacht notwithstanding the promises held out to the people of the Gaeltacht by the members of the present Government, not merely when they were in opposition but at all the elections which have taken place since.

Now, we know perfectly well, those of us who are living in seaboard counties, that the knitting industry is practically dead. The Minister's predecessor, Senator Connolly, when he was in charge of the Gaeltacht Department, came to the conclusion that those industries should be run on business lines. Inspired as he was by those high and noble business ideas, he proceeded at once to close down a number of those small industries. Surely every Deputy in this House will realise that you cannot regard industries in the Gaeltacht from the rigid business point of view; that after all, if we are to make any progress with the Gaeltacht problem we must be prepared to spend money, and to spend it generously, in that area. Those industries have to be nursed and nursed very carefully for a number of years before they can hope to achieve the business standards which the Parliamentary Secretary's predecessor evidently thought they should have achieved at the time he was in control of that Department.

The fact is that those industries are dying one by one. As a matter of fact, I think that to-day you could almost count on the fingers of one hand the industries which are left. Yet, in the Parliamentary Secretary's statement to-day he holds out no hope that any effort will be made in the future to revive those industries and to give employment to some of the people— especially the girls—who are still leaving the country in such numbers in order to seek employment on the other side.

So far as the trading section of his Department is concerned, he says that it has been the object of the Department to retain old customers and to secure additional customers. I thought that was always the object of the Department, and that it was not necessary to restate it. If it was not the object of that section of the Department in the past, it certainly should have been its object. Judging by the Estimates apparently he must not have secured many additional customers in the past, because the figures are almost identical with those for last year and the year before. Apparently the number of customers is not increasing, although the amount spent on the maintenance of that Department is increasing. There is a hiatus there which needs explanation by the Parliamentary Secretary. He should tell us the reason why it is necessary that they should increase expenditure for the purpose of the upkeep of that particular section of his Department, whereas the number of customers apparently remains stationary. The whole problem has been chiefly this: that the present Government has no policy and never had a policy for the Gaeltacht. Then, unfortunately for themselves, in their desire for a reform they made the cardinal mistake of transferring to other Departments the officials who were in charge of the Gaeltacht offices, the men with experience of the work, the men with a policy, and bringing in new men who did not know the first thing about the work, and who apparently have made no effort to benefit from the experience of their predecessors. After all, the Parliamentary Secretary will agree that an effort, a real and determined effort, was made by his predecessors in office for the purpose of helping the people in the Gaeltacht. Money was spent generously in exploring various avenues for the purpose of devising ways and means of helping the people in the Gaeltacht. Experiments were carried out in various directions with the object of finding suitable industries, industries which would at any rate help to cater for the needs of those people. So far as we can see, nothing whatever has been done during the last six years to develop that policy, to extend it in any possible direction. The record of the present Government in connection with the Gaeltacht has been a record of hopeless failure. I do not think any Department of Government can boast of such an incompetent administration as the Gaeltacht Department. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to state definitely whether he does intend to tackle this problem seriously, or is the Gaeltacht to be left to its fate? There is no use in voting money year after year unless we are satisfied that the Minister is applying that money in the best possible way and endeavouring to use it in the interests of and on behalf of the people for whom it is voted. I do seriously suggest to the House that this money is not being properly spent at present and has not been properly spent during the last few years and that the country is certainly not getting value for the money allocated for Gaeltacht services.

I admit, I always admitted, that the Gaeltacht problem is undoubtedly an exceedingly difficult one. Nevertheless, the obligation of finding a solution for it rests on the Government of the day, and it is time that the Parliamentary Secretary, and the Minister to whom he is responsible, should tackle this problem seriously and earnestly and endeavour to find some better means of relieving conditions in the Gaeltacht than those indicated in the statement which the Parliamentary Secretary made to-day.

Mr. P. Hogan

I listened with a good deal of interest to Deputy Roddy in his criticism of this Estimate, but I failed to discover any glimmer of a policy in respect of the Gaeltacht. I failed to discover in his statement any indication of a clear understanding of the Gaeltacht problem any more than I discovered in any statement made by his Administration when it was in office any understanding of the Gaeltacht problem, or any indication that there was a likelihood of their solving it. I listened to the Parliamentary Secretary with much interest and much sympathy, and I confess that I was in the same position as I was when listening to Deputy Roddy. There was neither an understanding of the Gaeltacht problem, nor an indication that there was any planned policy for the solution of that problem. They are simply spending money here, there and everywhere on a slapdash policy—a patch here and a patch there, like the Cubist idea in painting —no planned outlook, no policy of any kind in this regard.

What is the Gaeltacht? It is a narrow strip of territory around this State wherein is still preserved the greatest portion of Irish culture in the shape of the Irish language and Irish customs and probably traditional music and other things of that nature in which is embodied the spirit and outlook of the Gael on world matters. The problem is not how we are going to preserve in the Gaeltacht all the people who at present live in the Gaeltacht, because the youth of the Gaeltacht, the boyhood and the girlhood, will leave the Gaeltacht just as well as others will leave the Gaeltacht and go elsewhere to seek better conditions of employment and living. The Gaeltacht is no exception. What we want in the Gaeltacht-and this is a problem which will confront any Ministry-is to create a normal, decent life for the people who are going to remain there. That is the problem which confronts the Parliamentary Secretary-how to create a decent, normal life for the people who stay in the Gaeltacht, who marry and rear families there and want decent conditions of living. I must confess that in his entire statement, whether made in Irish or English, there was no indication of any planned policy, any outlook, as to how that was going to be done-nothing whatever.

Let us look at the figures—they are eloquent. I find that in headquarters' salaries there is an increase of £2,726. If these figures are incorrect which I am taking out rather hurriedly, I shall be glad if the Parliamentary Secretary will correct me. I find there is a reduction of £3,585 in such vital matters for the Gaeltacht as kelp and carrageen. Does that indicate an appreciation of the Gaeltacht problem-an increase in the expenditure at headquarters and a reduction in the expenditure in the Gaeltacht itself? I have totted up all the figures, and I find a sum of £36,244 for salaries and expenses. The total Estimate is £89,139, and if I subtract one from the other I get a sum of £42,895 to be administered in the Gaeltacht itself. Therefore if my calculations are correct, it takes £36,244 to administer £42,895. If that is correct, it certainly does not show an appreciation of the difficulties that face the people living in the Gaeltacht although it may show an appreciation of the difficuties facing people in other parts of the country. People in other parts of the country who may have difficulties may have them solved by the increased expenditure on salaries and expenses, but the difficulties that confront the Gaeltacht are not being solved by the expenditure made in the Gaeltacht.

The Parliamentary Secretary knows that part of the Gaeltacht which is in my constituency just as well as I do myself. He knows the conditions along the seaboard of Clare. He knows the position in Quilty, Liscannor, Cusheen, Gleninagh, etc., and all along the western seaboard. I venture to ask him whether he thinks Government intervention has made any improvement of any appreciable kind in the state of these people for the past five or six, or 10 or 15 years. When I was a lad I remember that there was a very flourishing market in the sale of seaweed from Quilty to the farmers of the surrounding districts for manure. I remember strings of carts carrying seaweed to Ennis for sale as manure. There is not one to be seen now-not one. Like Deputy Roddy, I would be interested to know whether the experiments in which the Department was interested have been any way successful.

Has there been any advance made in the utilisation of this seaweed for the fertilisation of the soil and the production of crops? If the market for kelp has failed, and if the market for carrageen has failed, what does the Department propose to do in order to maintain a decent standard of living for people who still speak the Irish language and preserve Irish customs? If the market has failed what does the Government propose so as to maintain these people in some decent standard of comfort? The Parliamentary Secretary told us that the market for carrageen and for kelp has failed. The amount by which it had dropped in the last few years is one of the most amazing manifestations of this Estimate. What is the alternative livelihood for these people? I suggest that the problem facing the Government is one of providing a normal decent living for Irish-speaking people in the Gaeltacht. I confess to having a certain amount of sympathy with them when dealing with this question. I believe the Government and the majority of the people in the country do not understand it. There is no real genuine understanding of the Gaeltacht problem, and sooner than spend money in the haphazard fashion that it has been spent without any direction, it would be better to abandon the scheme altogether and say: "We will leave the Gaeltacht to manage on its own sooner than carry on as at present." I would sooner listen to the Parliamentary Secretary unfolding that as his policy for the future, than listen to him telling us what a failure the Department has been in the Gaeltacht for 15 years. In that period I include the failure of Cumann na nGaedheal just as well as the failure under Fianna Fáil. I include the failure of both Governments to do anything for the Gaeltacht but talk sentimental slop.

Mr. Linehan

The Parliamentary Secretary stated that the demand for "Round Tower" goods is still satisfactory and that it has been possible to keep the weavers more or less constantly employed in the Kilcar, Glencolumbkille and Ardara centres. He went on to say:

"Suitable arrangements have been made to improve the organisation dealing with agents so that every shop in the country will be visited at regular periods with samples of goods manufactured according to the best standards and varied according to fashion."

I do not ask in a critical spirit, but I should like to know if any real attempt has been made to create, on what I might term the home market, a demand for that type of tweed. I may be wrong but, in my opinion, the sales appear to be confined to the larger towns and cities. I cannot say if the reason is that the tweeds are more expensive than others. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to indicate if any real attempt has been made to sell knitwear and Round Tower tweeds in country towns, and if agents of the Department are calling on shopkeepers in these towns to get them to become customers. While I may be wrong, from normal observation I should say that very little Round Tower tweeds are sold in small towns. They may be for sale, but they do not appear to be worn. I am interested to know if there is a possibility of creating a home market in country districts for material manufactured in these factories; and whether there is any real hope of getting customers for the sale of such material. Is it the position, that they do not like the look of the stuff or that it is too dear?

Gearóid Mac Partholáin

Ní ceart aon Bhéarla a labhairt ar an meastachán seo, ach caithfe mé freagra a thabhairt ar an gcaint a rinne Deputy Roddy agus, ós rud é gur i mBéarla a labhair seiseann, bhéarfa mé freagra air i mBéarla. Deputy Roddy on several occasions referred to money that has been set aside for housing and compared previous figures with these figures since this Government came into office.

We are all in favour of that, but what the Deputy should have done in all honesty was to compare the actual expenditure. I had occasion to refer to this matter before in the Press. On the question of the Gaeltacht, it is difficult enough to get co-operation of all interested without misquoting. We all know that the problem was very difficult when our predecessors were in office. It is no more easy now. As a matter of fact, it has become a more difficult problem since this Government assumed responsibility for the Gaeltacht than it was during the régime of our predecessors. One reason was the economic war, and another was the stoppage of emigration which took place about 1931. Emigration affected the life of the Gaeltacht more than any other part of the country. There is a good deal of confusion in the minds of the public regarding the Gaeltacht. As I understand the term, it applies to the districts in which Irish is the spoken language, but commonly the term is applied to what were known as the congested districts. Of course, the conditions are practically the same in all these places, but when the Gaeltacht proper is referred to, and when we are asked what we have done over and above what was done by our predecessors, at least I can point out to a few things of real value. I say that one of the best schemes for bringing money directly into the hands of the people there was the bounty of £2 payable to families with Irish-speaking children. That was very much appreciated, and has done a great deal of good in the way of easing the burden on the people, and improving the language position. Another matter which was very much decried and abused concerned unemployment assistance. I challenge any Deputy on the opposite benches to go to the Gaeltacht that I know when there is an election on, and to tell the people that he stands for the abolition of unemployment assistance, I guarantee he will not be elected.

Mr. Brodrick

That is how your Party got in.

Gearóid Mac Partholáin

As a matter of fact, as the Deputy knows, we got in before unemployment assistance was introduced. We did not promise it then. I did not know it was coming.

Mr. Brodrick

What about free meat?

Gearóid Mac Partholáin

We did not promise that either. We got in without a promise. Deputy Roddy challenged the Government with not having a planned policy. I say that the initiation of the schemes I mentioned is an indication that there was a planned policy. Anyone who knows the facts realises that the kernel of the question as regards the Gaeltacht is the very uneven distribution of the population there. Going along the coast from east to west, anyone who wades through the census figures will find that the distribution of population is in inverse ratio to the land.

Tá fhios agam go bhfuil go leor deacrachtaí ag baint leis an sgéal seo agus tá fhios ag an dream thall é freisin agus ní ceart dóibh a bheith ag cáineadh an Riaghaltais nuair is mór atá déanta don Ghaedhealaacht ag an Riaghaltas seo.

Ba mhaith liom cupla focla molta a rádh i dtaobh an Stiúrthóra. Fear é atá lán-tsásta a dhicheall a dhéanamh gach uile uair a hiarrtar air aon cheo a dhéanamh. Rinne sé a raibh ina chomhacht a dhéanamh, ach is mó go mór an chumhacht atá ag Ranna eile Riaghaltais le maith a dhéanamh don Ghaedhealtacht ná mar atá ag an Roinn seo.

Ach tá buadh amháin ag an Roinn seo. Sé sin go bhfuil sí mar chócheanngal idir na Ranna eile, agus d'oibrigh an Stiúrthóir thar cionn ar an mbealach sin.

Níl seachtain ar bith nach mbíonn sé ag spreagadh Roinne eicínt eile ar mhaithe leis an nGaedhealtacht. Más féidir leis aon ní a dhéanamh ní leigeann sé do "red tape" a bheith sa mbealach air.

Ach, mar adubhairt mé tá seans níos fearr ag Ranna eile le maitheas a dhéanamh ná mar atá ag Seirbhísí na Gaedhealtachta, cuir i gcás an Roinn Tionnscail agus Tráchtála, an Roinn Talmhaidheachta nó an Roinn Riaghaltais Áiteamhail. Tá mé cinnte nach bhféadfadh sé níos mó a dhéanamh leis an méid comhachta atá aige.

The worse it is the more people you find on the land, and to remedy that situation our Government at least initiated a migration policy, and Deputy Roddy is one of the people who threw cold water on it. I am quite convinced that no scheme of amelioration of the Gaeltacht can really bear any fruit until a better distribution of the population has taken place. That is a huge job, a mighty job and a costly job, but I believe that that is true. A certain amount of good can be done, but these schemes would bear much better fruit if the population were more equitably distributed. We have the question of housing. I referred to housing already. Housing in the Gaeltacht is governed by the terms of the Gaeltacht scheme, and it was not this Government that enacted that Gaeltacht Act; it was our predecessors, and the conditions in the main, with the exception of one, are the same now as they were when it was enacted. Under the terms of it we know that an applicant for a house cannot get a grant if his land is to be subject to rearrangement by the Land Commission, and unless the Land Commission can give a certificate that it is not so subject the man cannot get a house. That condition holds up housing much more than anything else in the Gaeltacht. It can be urged against us—I do not know whether it can be argued for or against—that we altered the Gaeltacht Act by confining it to the Fior-Gaeltacht, but the extraordinary thing about that is, when it was going through the House one Gaeltacht Deputy on the opposite side supported the change and another on the opposite side opposed it. The same took place here. I opposed it, and Deputy Donnchadh O Briain supported it. So that as far as the change is concerned at all events it had no political significance, if one can judge by the way it was supported and opposed. I believe it was a mistake myself. I think that it should have been left as it was, because those portions of the Gaeltacht would benefit for the reason I have given. That is, I do believe, a sound reason. The large sums of money which have been referred to as being set aside for the purposes in our predecessors' time could have been spent. It was not done because of these restrictions. - Senator Connolly changed that policy, and he just merely set aside the sums of money that he thought reasonably could be spent. It is very easy to throw dust in the eyes of the people by producing the Estimate figures, and you find at the end of the year, as we did with regard to figures produced by our precedessors, that in some cases less than half and a third was spent. If the figures of expenditure were compared, you would find that they have increased during the last four or five years, but I am not putting forward that to discredit the work done by our predecessors. I know that they initiated the scheme, and naturally you would expect a better result, so to speak, from the work as time went on. I am referring to the matter because I think it is quite unfair in view of the difficulties of this Gaeltacht problem to have petty debating points like this put forward. They are not helpful by any means.

Ní doigh liom, a Chinn Chomhairle, gur ceart dom labhairt i mBéarla ar an gceist seo agus ní labhrochainn i mBéarla marach na rudaí a dubhairt na teachtaí gur ndearn mé tagairt do. Badh mhaith liomsa focal molta a rádh i dtaobh an stiurthóra atá anois i mbun na h-oibre. Rinne sé cuid mhaith oibre ó tháinig sé isteach. Níl an cumhacht aige chun rudaí móra tabhachta a dhéanamh ar mhaithe leis an nGaedhealtacht. Cuir i gcás an Roinn Tailte, An Roinn Talmhaidheachta an Roinn Tionnscail agus Tráchtála agus Ranna eile, tá níos mó chumhachta aca chun maitheas a dhéanamh don Ghaedhealtacht ná mar atá ag Seirbhísí na Gaedhealtachta. Tá dualgas amhain atá aca le déanamh—tá siad mar chomh-cheangal idir na Ranna eile agus an Gaedhealtacht, agus tá fhios agamsa má tá tú ag iarraidh rud ar bith a fhagháilt ó Roinn ar bith— Riaghaltas Aiteamhail nó Tionnscail agus Tráchtála, nó Talmhaidheachta, 'sé an chaoi is fearr chun an rud sin fhaghailt ná dul ag Stiúrthóir Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta ar dtúis, agus má chionann air sin ní féidir é a dhéanamh. Tá sé ag déanamh rud foghanta agus ní h-iad na dualgasaí atá direach fé n-a chúram féin is mó a dheineas maitheas don Ghaeltacht, acht na rudaí is féidir leis a dhéanamh ar an mbealach a dhearna mé tagairt dí. Sin an méid atá le rádh agamsa, a Chinn Chomhairle. Tá fhios ag an dream thall go bhfuil deachrachtaí san scéal i dtaoibh na Ceilpe. Tá fhios aca thall tuige nach bhfuil an déantús sin ag dul ar aghaidh. Tá fhios aca nach bhfuil an margadh a bhí ann cheana ar fagháil anois, go bhfuil iodine ar fagháil ó áiteanna eile, go mór mor an Meireaca Theas agus tiortha eile. Tá mise lán-tsásta go bhfuil fear maith i bhfeidhil na h-oibre sin agus go ndearna sé a dhicheall agus maran bhfeidir leis a thuille a dhéanamh níl an locht air féin.

Seosamh O Mongáin

Gheit mo chroidhe le buaidhreadh nuair a chuala mé an rud a bhí le rádh ag an Rúnaí Páirliminte faoi'n nGaeltacht, agus ag cuid de Theachtái an Tighe seo. Agus cén t-iongnadh é? Duine mar mise a tóigeadh sa nGaeltacht agus 'chuile dhuine de mo dhream. Tá mé ag ceapadh gurb é Raifterí adubhairt:

"Shoraidh don bhochtaineacht

Nach bocht an céile í

Gidh go ndeir na sagairt

Gurb í an slighe is goire do Dhia í."

Ar mar gheall ar go bhfuil na daoine bocht sa nGaeltacht go bhfuil an Rúnaí Páirliminte agus a dhream ag caitheamh chó mór sin ortha, agus ag leigint air ar an am céadna go bhfuil sé ag déanamh an domhain dóibh? Dubhairt Eamon Ceannt liom ar mo theallach féin, beannacht Dé le n-a anam agus nár leige Dia go gcuirfinn bréag air: "Nuair a thiocfa muide i bhféim agus nuair a bhéas stiúradh na tíre seo in ar lámha, tiocaidh an Ghaeltacht ina lá féin." Anois an mar seo atá? Ní headh, ach gá chur síos níos measa ná mar cuireadh síos ariamh í, gá bocáil o thaoibh go taoibh, gan blas measa uirthi féin ná duine ar bith atá inti ach ag magadh is ag cur i gcéill go bhfuil.

Dubhairt Mícheál Og Mac Pháidín go bhfuair Gaeltacht Dhún na nGall beagán beag bídeach, ach deirim-se nach bhfuair Gaeltacht Chonamara tada ar fiú caint air ach iad a choinneál síos. An té atá thíos buailtear boc air. Dubhairt an Leas-Cheann Comhairle, fear a bhfuil meas mór agam air agus fear a bheadh, tá mé ag ceapadh, dáiríre faoi'n nGaeltacht: "Níl aon phlean ag lucht Fianna Fáil" adeir sé "ar an nGaeltacht". Mara bhfuil, ní easba Coimisiúnaí atá ortha. Chuir na Sasanaigh Coimisiún ar bun le haghaidh na Gaeltachta agus nuair a tháinig Cumann na nGaedheal i bhféim chuir siad féin Coimisiún na Gaeltachta ar bhun. Níor shásuigh sé sin lucht Fianna Fáil ná an Seanadóir O Conghaile a bhí ina Aire—chuir siad Coimisiún de na "patriots" ar bun. Na "patriots", —bhfuil leitriú an fhocail seo athruithe? Sé an bealach leitrithe atá aca seo air "pay" in áit "pat". Nuair a cuireadh an Coimisiún seo ar bun, Domhnall O Buachalla agus Maitiú de Buitléir agus Pádraic O Máille, bhí an Ghaeltacht le chuile rud a fháil; ní bheadh duine ar bith bocht ann; bhí seacht luach le fáil ar chuile rud—má b'fhíor dóibh-san. Ach an seanfhocal "ar mhaithe leis féin a dhéanas an cat crónán". Céard a thárla? Rinneadh Cathaoirleach ar Bhord na nOibreacha Poiblidhe le £1,500 no £1,600 sa mbliain den tSeanadóir O Conghaile; rinneadh Seanascal de Dhomhnall O Buachalla, agus £10,000 sa mbliain dhó, agus indiú rinneadh Leas-Chathaoirleach ar an Seanad de Phádraic O Máille agus £700 sa mbliain dhó.

Sin é tháinig as Coimisiún na Gaeltachta faoi Fhianna Fáil. Na boicíní seo a chur suas, daoine uaisle a dhéanamh dhíobh, agus bocht na nGaeltacht a fhágáil mar bhí siad no a chur síos níos measa dá mb'fhéidir é. Sin é Cothrom na Féinne a fuair an Ghaeltacht.

Cuireadh Coimisiún eile ar bun i ngeall ar Acaill agus an rud a d'éirigh do na daoine bochta ansin. Creidim nach bhféadfaimid mórán a radh faoi seo faoi láthair mar nach dtáinig an tuairisc isteach uatha fós, ach dubhairt an tAthair Séamus O Ceallaigh ag Ard-Fheis Fianna Fáil: "Coimisiún mar dheadh." Fágfa mé mar so é an t-am seo.

Ní thaithíonn na figiúirí faoi na tighthe leis an Teachta Mac Phárthaláin—na figiúirí a fuair mise ar freagra ceiste d'iarr mé ar an Rúnaí Páirliminte. Seo iad anseo iad, béal na fírinne, sa leabhar seo. An dá bhliain a raibh Cumann na nGaedheal i bhféim faoi Acht na dTithe (Gaeltacht) thug siad deontaisí £173,431; an chúig bhliana atá Fianna Fáil i bhféim níor thug siad ach £159,784. Dá réir sin thug Cumann na nGaedheal i dhá bhliain £13,000 a thighthe sa nGaeltacht níos mó ná thug Fianna Fáil i gcúig bhliana. Agus an méid gaisge atá aca faoi dhéanamh tighthe sa nGaeltacht!

Anois beagán faoi Cheilp is faoi Charraigín. Feicim i Leabhar na Meastachán go bhfuil siad ag caitheamh £2,500 níos lugha i mbliana ná chaith siad anuraidh. Chaith siad anuraidh níos lugha ná chaith siad athrú anuraidh agus mar sin ghá chur anuas o bhliain go bliain. Nuair a bhí Cumann na nGaedheal i réim bhí an Cheilp ag dul o £8 go £10 an tonna; anois an praghas is fearr atá Fianna Fáil a thairisgint uirthi £4. Is dá mbeadh sé dhá déanamh féin chorrdhuine a gheobhadh é seo. D'réir mo bharúl-sa ceilp ar £4 an tonna ní bheadh sé pingne sa ló ag daoine bheadh gá déanamh. Agus a bhfuil obair ar bith chó hanróiteach léí? Fliuch, fuar o mhaidin go tráthnóna na daoine atá ghá déanamh—go minic iad go básta i bhfairrge.

Ach cén tsuim atá ag oifigeacha Roinn na Gaeltachta annseo fhaid is tá siad féin íoctha go maith? Céard a rinneadh d'Oileán Arann, Conamara, Acaill no a leitheidí o tháinig siad seo isteach? Dheamhan faic, ach déirce dhá chuid féin a thabhairt don amadán. D'iarr sagart pobail Rosmuc agus mé féin agus b'fhéidir cuid de na Teachtaí ar an taobh thall droichead a chur ar shruth Dhún Mánus i Rosmuc. Dá ndéanfaí é seo dhéanfadh sé maith don tír; d'osclóchadh sé suas tír; bheadh sé réidh ag na daoine sa gceanntar sin a dhul go aontaighe Chasla, an Spidéil agus na Gaillimhe; agus bheadh sé réidh ar muinntir an Spidéil a theacht go Rosmuc agus a leitheide d'áit.

Sruth an-chontabhairteach é seo. Báthadh daoine cheana ag dul treasna ann. Cheapfá go ndéanfaí é seo mara mbeadh tada ann ach gur í ngar dhó seo a chaith an Piarsach laetheanta go leor. Ar an spota seo a sgríobh sé "Sean-Mhaitias". Tá mé cinnte dá mbeadh sé beo go ndéanfaí é seo. Nár dheas is nár áluinn an rud dhá ndéanfaí é seo, agus "Droichead an Phiarsaigh" a ghlaodhach air. Tá mé cinnte go dtiúbhradh a dhriofúr cead é seo a dhéanamh; agus na daoine a thiocfadh ina ndiaidh bheadh a fhios aca gur chaith sé cuid dá shaoghal annseo.

Má bhreathuíonn an tAire ar an rud adubhairt mise ar Vóta Choimisiún na Talmhan feicfe sé go bhfuil rud eicínt ann a dhéanfadh maith don tír dá ndéanfaí é. Ach tá faitíos orm nach ndéanfa sé tada agus nach bhfuil fonn air tada a dhéanamh mar níor dearnadh tada o tháinig siad isteach. Chuimhuigheadh sé ar an rud atá mé ag dhul a rá—is olc í an aithrighe mhall admhuighdís a gcás mar tá sé sgríobhtha ar chlár ghlan a n-éadain nach ndearna siad tada.

Seán O Tiobraide

A Leas-Chinn Comhairle, is maith an rud go bhfuil tú insan gcathaoir anois. Cuireadh comisiúin ar bun annso insan mbliain 1924 nó 1925. Do bhí tusa féin ar an gcomisiúin sin agus thugas faoi deara nuair a bhí tú ag labhairt anocht go ndubhairt tú i mBéarla—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Ní hé an Leas-Cheann Comhairle adubhairt é; 'sé an Teachta O hOgáin adubhairt é.

Seán O Tiobraide

Labhair tú i mBéarla agus dubhairt tú: "If the market has failed for carrageen and kelp, what is the Government going to do?" Mar adubhairt mé cheana bhí comisiúin annso insan mbliain 1925 agus bhí Teachtaí ar an gcoimisiúin sin nach bhfuil anso anois, an Teachta Risteard Ó Maolchatha agus Teachtaí eile. Chuireadar sgéala no tuairisg chun an Riaghaltais. Bhí morán rudaí le socrú a dhéanamh ortha an uair sin. Ní dhearnadh socrú ortha. Na ceisteanna do chuir an Teachta O Mongáin chun an Riaghaltais anois ba cheart na ceisteanna sin do chur chun an Riaghaltais a bhí anso seacht mbliana o shoin.

Dubhairt an Teachta O Mongáin go raibh oiread airgid dhá chaitheamh insan nGaeltacht nuair a bhí Riaghaltas Cumann na nGaedheal ann is atá anois. Níl fhios agam chor ar bith cá bhfuair sé na figiúirí sin. Tá fhios agam-sa go bhfuil a dheich n-oiread airgid dhá chaitheamh insan nGaedhealtacht anois ná mar a bhí an uair sin. Tá sé sin soiléir go leor ag gach éinne gan trácht chor ar bith ar an dá phunt atá ghá thabhairt ag an Riaghaltas in aghaidh gach páiste atá ag dul ar scoil insan nGaedhealtacht anois ná ar an airgead atá ghá fhagháil faoi'n Unemployment Assistance Act.

I want to refer to a few questions which have been touched upon here in English. The first question is in relation to housing. I am not standing here to answer for what the Government have done in that matter. The more the Government do in that direction, the more I like it. As a matter of fact, it would be more or less up to me to criticise, as far as I could, the Government for not going far enough, but I find myself in the position of having to say that the Government have spent far more money in the Gaeltacht than any previous Government. They have spent it very well, and it has not gone astray. The people are very grateful to them, and I wish now, speaking here as a representative of the Gaeltacht, to thank the Government for what they have done. They have certainly done marvellous work. I did not myself believe that they would be able to do the amount of work they have done when I was before the electorate of Galway. I should, however, like this question of the Gaeltacht to be tackled in a way entirely different from that in which it has been tackled by the British Government, the Cumann na nGaedheal Government or the Fianna Fáil Government. I think that the commission established some time ago of which the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Moylan, is in charge, should be re-established as a Congested Districts Board.

Mr. McMenamin

It is about time you thought of it. You are rather late in thinking about it now.

Dr. Tubridy

Ni thuigim do chuid Bearla na do chuid Gaedhilge. I have frequently discussed this matter with members of different Parties, and I think it was generally agreed that the Congested Districts Board was not a bad board, and that it would not be a bad thing if it were re-established. Does the Deputy agree with that? Does the Deputy want to say anything in reference to that?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not see any desire on the part of anybody to interrupt the Deputy.

Dr. Tubridy

I should like to get unanimity on this question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is not a place for unanimity. It is a place for disagreement.

Mr. Linehan

The millennium has not arrived yet.

Dr. Tubridy

The Gaeltacht question is a very big question because the population there is dense, but the people there are not quite so dense. At present it is a question of migrating either to England or America. The people cannot go to America, so they are going to England and the question before the people who represent these areas is: what are we going to do to keep the Gaeltacht alive and, at the same time, utilise the people there for the purpose of propagating the Irish language? They are the survivors of the old Celtic people. They are the people who kept the language going, and if we want to take this question seriously, if we want some return from the money that is now being expended in these areas under the various Departments, and have the activities of these various Departments co-ordinated, we must get a Department that will deal solely with these people in such a way as to enable them to earn a decent livelihood at home. We want to ensure that they will retain the language and help in spreading the language throughout the country. We are now spending a considerable amount of money under the Education Vote and other Votes for the propagation of the Irish language. This Vote, of course, has no connection with the Education Vote but, at the same time, it bears a certain relation to it. After all, the money spent in the Gaeltacht should be spent in a co-ordinated, orderly fashion. I believe that if we consider it worth while to save the Irish language, and incidentally the people of the Gaeltacht, it is also worth while to re-establish some, board on the lines of the old Congested Districts Board. I said that when the Cumann na nGaedheal Government was in office and I repeat it now. I believe that I am voicing the feelings of the people in my area when I make that suggestion.

A question was raised here about housing in the Gaeltacht. It is very good to get housing grants and we appreciate them very much. I dealt with this question of housing when I was a Deputy in opposition and I hold the same opinions in regard to it now as I did then. It does not happen that because I sit on the Government Benches I have changed my mind. As regards housing, it is all very well to give the people very big windows and doors, in order to give the wolf a better opportunity of looking into the houses.

Mr. Linehan

I did not think there were any wolves under the Fianna Fáil Government.

Dr. Tubridy

The wolves we have in Galway are not the same as you have in Cork.

Mr. Linehan

They are much more ferocious in Galway.

Dr. Tubridy

Housing has certainly been looked after by both Governments. Our Government had done a lot more work on housing than was done previously, but the Cumann na nGaedheal Government spent a certain amount on housing also. The Gaeltacht housing scheme was inaugurated by Deputy Blythe, I think. We should, however, remember that no livelihood is attached to most of the houses that have been built, and that is a question that I should like to see tackled. If you build houses in an urban area where industries are established, the people who occupy these houses can get employment and can pay the rent; but when you build houses in a Gaeltacht area, unless you build them on a holding of land, you are building them without giving any tangible method to these people which will enable them to pay the rent.

Donal O Laoghaire

Ceapas go raibh plean agat chun an ceist sin a shocru.

Dr. Tubridy

Níor dhubhairt mé go raibh ach táim ag iarraidh ar an Rialtas bord a bhunú.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Cross-examination in Irish is no more in order than cross-examination in English.

Dr. Tubridy

The Government have certainly done a lot of work. We hear much criticism nowadays about emigration to England, but I heard the very same people who are now criticising the Government say from a public platform some years ago: "What is the use of bothering about these people; they will be gone to America in a year or two." That was said in my presence, that because the people in the country were emigrating to America, it was no use doing anything for them. That emigration was a very welcome development for the Cumann na nGaedheal Government because possibly these emigrants would be voters who would not support them. Now they are going to England, and we hear all this criticism about emigration. Emigration was always there. As far as I can remember anyway, 30,000 people emigrated from this country every year. Now a lot of them are staying at home and getting work here. The Government are doing what they can in regard to that matter. I wish they were doing more, and I should like to get the assistance of the Fine Gael Party in seeing what else can be done.

Mr. O'Leary

Does the Deputy seriously say they are staying at home now?

Dr. Tubridy

The statistics show that.

Mr. O'Leary

They do not show it in the way the Deputy is putting it.

Dr. Tubridy

As regards part of the west, they go over to England and come back again. All this talk about emigration is purely propaganda. I am only speaking for my own part of the country, and I know that this emigration to England is nothing compared with the amount of emigration to America in my youthful days. Those who went to America were scarcely ever seen in this country again. Those who go to England are coming back yearly and taking their holidays here. They are not completely lost to the country. They may be of very great assistance to us over there at some future time.

Mr. Linehan

Mr. Chamberlain will not like that!

Dr. Tubridy

When we are up against some question with the British Government, those people over there may be very useful friends of ours.

Mr. Linehan

Treason!

Dr. Tubridy

However, there is no use in getting heated in this debate. I should like to get the opinion of the people opposite, who represent the same type of people as I represent in the Gaeltacht, on the question of re-establishing the Congested Districts Board. If we agree on other things, surely we can agree on the important question of the best method of dealing with the people in the Gaeltacht. If we could agree on this matter of having money put at the disposal of the suggested board, and giving them unlimited power as regards the spending of that money, we would be doing a lot of good for the people in the Gaeltacht. I think no Party in this House should use the position of those people for any Party purpose. I think if we could unite in our efforts to deal with that problem, we would be doing a very good thing.

Mr. McMenamin

There are a couple of things which this Vote has disclosed. It has disclosed the continuing existence of a Parliamentary Secretary for this Department. We heard so little about him during the past 12 months that I thought he had been dissolved or something. This Vote reminds me of whipping a dead horse. I feel that one degrades oneself and wastes one's time in discussing it. It is an insult to the intelligence of anybody with any capacity to spend time in discussing the matters which are here put before us. I am sorry to see that Deputy Tubridy has left. He says that this Government has done more for the Gaeltacht than the last Government. That may be true; I am not going to discuss that matter for the moment. What have they done? During the year we have had in this House all this hypocritical parade about the preservation of the Gaeltacht, the preservation of the Irish language, and the necessity for preserving the Gaeltacht in order to preserve the Irish language. If this Vote here represents the efforts of this House and of this Government to save the Irish language, then I say nothing more hypocritical than the palaver which we have listened to here in this House during the past 12 months can be conceived.

If the Gaeltacht is going to be preserved, it must be preserved by giving a livelihood to the manhood of the Gaeltacht. Deputy Tubridy tells us that this Government has done more than the last Government in that regard. I do not know what the last Government did. I am not going to worry about that: I believe in dealing with to-day and to-morrow. The Gaeltacht extends from Fanad Head, the most northerly point in my constituency, down to somewhere below Kinsale. Let us see what money has gone to the manhood of this area from the Government which has done more for the Gaeltacht than the last Government. It is going to give them £2,800 for kelp and seaweed. There is no indication as to how much per ton is given for the kelp or for the seaweed, but the gross sum is £2,800. To take care of that £2,800, which the entire Gaeltacht is going to get, the costs are as follows:—Transport and storage, £1,200; Grinding, screening, bagging, etc., £660; Analysis and testing, £5; Stores, stationery, etc., £500; Miscellaneous expenses, including casual labour, £150; Assistance by way of cost of transport of seaweed sold by gatherers, £100. The costs are £2,615, and the manhood of the Gaeltacht from Fanad Head in Donegal down to the most southerly point in Cork are going to get £2,800. Yet this Government has done more for the Gaeltacht than any other Government! Has the Deputy any conscience when he can get up in this House and make statements of that kind, expecting them to be published in the Press for his constituents to read the next day or some other day? I think that we here in this House, irrespective of Party, should pass a resolution of utter condemnation of this Government which is handling that problem. Put that as a commercial proposition to any board of directors, and ask them to adopt it. Kelp and carrageen together in the entire Gaeltacht will get £3,112, and the costs of that are £3,361. Yet an enlightened gentleman like Deputy Tubridy comes before this House to tell us what this Government has done and to prate about the Irish language. Is not that enough to sicken anybody? Is not the thing disgusting? This is to save the Gaelic race. The thing is too contemptible to discuss, as I said already.

Some five or six years ago, when the present chairman of the Board of Works was Minister for this Department, I put up the proposal here that if you were going to do anything for this area you would have to go into the homes of the people and in some form or another give them reproductive work. There is something to be said for what Deputy Tubridy stated. I know what he means. He talked about giving this £2 grant in the Gaeltacht. I am going to be straight and blunt. Is this House going to turn this entire area, that is to preserve the Gaelic race, into a huge workhouse where there will be no self-help and no self-reliance? Is that going to be the home of the Irish race, where every man and every woman will be standing like beggars waiting for money from someone and not one act of self-help done? The amount of money represented here divided up over that area is contemptible. There is no use in suggesting that that money is going to do anything for that area. I know an area in my constituency, along a coast line of about four miles, into which eight or ten years ago £3,000 or £4,000 went for kelp and salmon in one year. I know the people who got it. And this miserable sum of £3,112 is going to do for the whole coast line of this country!

This House apparently can give up any hope of this Government doing anything for the Gaeltacht to preserve its manhood and womanhood and to preserve it as the cradle of the Irish race and of the Gaelic tongue. I was jeered at six years ago when I suggested that you should go into the homes of these people and give them something to do in their own homes. I remember Deputy Norton telling me that I was suggesting pigs and porridge for them. I did not suggest that at all. I think that a lot could be done for these people, but I do not think the Parliamentary Secretary or the Minister is going to do anything for them. How could they? What acquaintance have they with this huge problem? How much work have they put into the organisation to do anything for this area?

The old C.D.B. has been referred to. It makes one writhe to compare the present administration of this area with the work of the old C.D.B. Think of the men who were on that board, think of their ability, and of the time and the energy they put into the work. One of the greatest men this country ever produced was on that board and threw all his energies and talents into dealing with that trouble. Now we are asked to believe that we are going to save these people by the expenditure of £3,000. I remember the late Cardinal O'Donnell applying all his talents to that mighty problem, because that is what it is. Look at the Micawber attempts that are being made to-day to deal with it. Think of all the men who were the Cardinal's colleagues on that board. They did do something for that area. More could be done, but no more could be humanly done with the resources that they had at their command than they did. They applied their talents, their genius, and their energy to it. They put backbone and spirit into the people of that area and they maintained them during all these years. What is being done now? I will not apply any term to this. Deputy Bartley and Deputy Tubridy have done that. We have given them the dole and we have given the £2 grant for children speaking Irish. These people want that £2. I know they do. But think of giving £2 to people for speaking their native language. Where is that going to get them? What are their fathers doing? They should be out gathering kelp and selling it. That is what I want to see these people doing. I have been told that the market for kelp is bad. That is untrue. There are times of depression in connection with any industry. The curious thing is that while this Government are only giving a nominal price for kelp, British buyers are coming to Rathlin Island, round to the Six-County area where kelp is gathered, and giving as much as £10 per ton for it. That is not being done for charity. That is not being subsidised by a Government Department. That is being done by British speculators, private individuals, who have some object in view and that object is not charity.

This Department has the External Affairs Department, the Trade Commissioner in London, trade agents everywhere, and ambassadors in Berlin, Paris, Rome and New York to get into touch with. English merchants are buying kelp for some purpose, and they are not subsidised by any Department. They are not doing it for charity. There is something else behind it. Does the Government Department know anything about that? While we are prepared for such subsidies in these areas, we want to get some results and not this sort of thing. The Parliamentary Secretary must know that British merchants who deal in kelp are in the market and are giving £10 a ton. What is the explanation for that? The curious thing is that they did not buy kelp in our territory. Was that because of the economic war? Has the Parliamentary Secretary any information about it? I have no method of getting it, as I have not the organisation behind me that the Parliamentary Secretary has. He has the Departments of External Affairs, Agriculture, Industry and Commerce, as well as trade agents abroad, to go to. What information do all these supply as to the prospects of this industry? It is being subsidised so as to pay an economic price, but the bill for storage appears to be the most important part of it. Deputy Tubridy spoke about re-constituting the Congested Districts Board. What is happening? The men who went out after the tide to gather kelp and who carted it are going out of the business altogether. If the tradition is not maintained in the homes of the people, the industry will die out. In these areas there are only two things for the people to depend upon, kelp and fishing. The sea fisheries are dead. I cannot deal with fisheries now, but I say that they are part of the same problem, and that these two Departments should never have been separated. They should be under the same control. The Parliamentary Secretary states:

"The reduced Estimates for marine products is, in effect, more notional than real, as the Department is willing to take all kelp offered for sale. In the Estimate for last year provision was made for something in the nature of 1,000 tons and a quantity of seaweed, but actually only some 400 tons were offered."

That is clever. The trend of the whole situation is that this industry is going down and down, and will ultimately disappear. That industry brought great wealth to these people. I admit that the work is hard. I would like to see the people paid for hard work. It is a slavish job saving and carting kelp. While the Department estimated for 1,000 tons, it only got 400 tons. Imagine only 1,000 tons from the whole western seaboard. Ten years ago 1,000 tons would be gathered on six or seven miles of the shore in County Donegal. I remember that the then departmental head wanted to send a ship to Limerick from Donegal to carry 1,000 tons of kelp. At the same time two other boats were chartered from Glasgow to carry kelp from Burtonport, Tory Island, Fanad and Malin. It is worthy of speculation as to whether this Government will not completely destroy the spirit and manhood of this area. I do not know if what Deputy Tubridy stated has been the cause, or if the giving of the dole has put people out of employment. I am not going that far. If it is, it is tragic. This Government has attempted to commit many crimes against the country, but if that is true it is the greatest crime of all.

Perhaps as another generation grows up, young men will not go out to fish in small curraghs in storms in which perhaps they might lose their lives, and will not go to the sea shore before five or six o'clock in the morning to pull out and save seaweed, if money is to be got easier. Is that what the Government is doing for the Gaelic race? I would like to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary what he is really going to do. Has he any really constructive policy, or is he going to abolish the present organisation and delegate his functions, covering fishing and everything else, to some other body, by giving it a considerable sum of money and saying: "Here you are, go into this area and enter into production as far as is humanly possible?" Of course, I will be told that it is easy to criticise, and I will be asked what suggestion I have to make with regard to kelp. In that connection, I see no justification for British buyers and Scottish agents coming to Rathlin Island, and giving £10 a ton for kelp unless they were storing it up for the purposes of war. The Parliamentary Secretary can get information of that kind and he should. If these people who are individual business men in this business are prepared to take that risk, very well we will support the Parliamentary Secretary in taking it. I want to keep these men in all this area working. I want to keep them working at the sea so that the tradition will remain there even though the industry has struck a bad patch in regard to prices. I do not want to say anything that would grate on anybody's nerves or temper. This House has voted large sums of money in the last few years for very futile and idle things. Would it not be far better than these silly schemes, ridiculous schemes, a reflection on this House, if the money were used for this purpose, paying we will say, since the decline in the price of kelp began, a flat rate of £5 per ton— a guaranteed rate of £5 per ton? In that way, some of the money that has been wasted, wasted from the point of view of the taxpayer, for which there is no justification whatever, would be spent on work like this. Had we a board like the Congested Districts Board, manned with men of the calibre of the men of that board, that would be handed over a sum of money of that kind, does anybody suggest that we would get a production of this kind? Not at all! We have here 400 tons of kelp and seaweed, both combined, you will remember. Apparently, there is some seaweed bought too, whatever it is bought for. Whether the Department burn it themselves I do not know. I think the Parliamentary Secretary should have the moral courage to get up and say: "Very well, I have been a failure at this thing. The thing is a fiasco," tender his resignation to the Government and say: "Set up some other arrangement to deal with it, because I cannot." It is not right for us to do these things, carrying on a sham of this kind and then make it appear that we are doing something to build a citadel of the Irish race. Let us be quite frank about it. Open confessions are good for the soul. Let us have one.

Now there was another very interesting thing, equally ridiculous, so ridiculous that I am ashamed to think that I am here and that this thing is produced by the Department—loans for industrial purposes, loans for the purchase of machines and equipment for rural industries—£10. The industries of the Gaeltacht are going to get £10! Loans for the purchase and repair of turf boats— £10—some fresh paint put on them, I suppose. Loans for the purchase of boats, carts and draught animals for use in connection with marine products and industries—£10. Loans for the purchase of boats and transport services—£1,000. Miscellaneous loans £500. What are these loans for boats? I think we had a special Bill here during the last session to purchase, or rather either to purchase boats or to maintain a service from the harbour in Galway to some islands west of Galway. I think it would be much better, if this fits into some service that the Gaeltacht Department are running, that there should be some co-ordination. There was a Bill before the House and these should be put into the general thing and not have this thing of scraps here and scraps there and no co-ordination anywhere.

I see that a new knitting factory is going to be opened in Bunbeg. I give that my blessing in so far as it is a success. I give it my condemnation in so far as it is only opened to be ultimately closed. Does the Parliamentary Secretary expect success from this or is it merely under pressure from somebody, that simply money is voted and a factory is opened and, of course, to keep it open for a time and then close it down again? That is taking place down in the County Donegal. I do not want any more shams of that kind. If a factory is opened down there for knitting or any other purpose, I want it to be opened as an economic proposition, run on business lines and run successfully. I do not want a factory being opened this month and closed down six months hence or some other time. The thing is awful, scrapping machinery and wasting everything, staff and everything else being thrown as scrap on the market. Thousands of pounds worth of this stuff will be lying at Beggar's Bush until somebody buys it as a job lot.

Deputy Linehan has referred to the tweeds. Now, I would like to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary what is the actual position in Beggar's Bush. What is the nature of the stock that is on hands at present? Have last year's patterns been cleared? If they have not, what amount is lying over? If there is a substantial amount of last year's stock remaining on hands, what is the explanation of its lying on hands? I do not want a repetition of what occurred some years ago. Some enormous amounts of these tweeds of various kinds, running into a huge sum, lying there and ultimately sold for scrap price. I remember the sneering of Senator Connolly, then the Minister for Lands, in this House on the position that he found in that connection. Accepting what I see in these Estimates, there is no improvement yet. I hope that the innovation of designers will mean an improvement. I am anxious to know from the Parliamentary Secretary the actual procedure. Have last year's patterns—the entire stock of last year's patterns—been cleared? If they have not been cleared, what is the amount, at their wholesale price, that is remaining on hands at the end of the season, and if there is any substantial amount of them lying on hands at the end of the season, what is the explanation of the failure to market them? Was it due to intensive competition? Was it due to quality, or was it due to not having the proper patterns? The House is entitled to know this, because if public money is being voted to assist these areas and if for lack of design or some technical defect of that kind the industry has been strangled, the House should know that and should see that steps are taken to put an end to this.

I would suggest—I made the suggestion before, and my colleague, Deputy Dillon, also—to the Parliamentary Secretary, that if he purposes to occupy the position that he now holds, that he should take steps and ask the Government for sufficient money, or the necessary money, to get these people into full production of kelp, and offer them, we will say, a flat rate of £5 a ton for it. It is quite clear, looking at things humanly and looking at the abominable world that confronts us, that the whole of Europe is going headlong for a war. That is an abominable prospect. There it is— human vengeance and human jealousy. If that is so, of course, in a few years there is going to be an enormous demand for kelp.

Mr. Gorey

Somebody is going to get hurt.

Mr. McMenamin

I agree, but, unfortunately, we cannot stop it. I say the Parliamentary Secretary should make inquiries into that matter and consult with his own technical advisers. He should be advised by his representatives abroad, too. I think then that, horrible as the purpose may be, there would be some justification for carrying on this kelp industry so as to keep our people in production. What is the Parliamentary Secretary doing about carrageen? I understand that we have a staff at the British Empire Exhibition at Glasgow. Will carrageen be on exhibit there? Is the Parliamentary Secretary himself going to Glasgow? He is getting paid for doing his job. Is he going himself? Has he a lady demonstrator there to demonstrate the uses to which carrageen can be put? If not, why not? The State is paying rent for the stall at this exhibition, and we are paying a representative to look after that. What part will the Parliamentary Secretary play at that exhibition? Is he taking a first class demonstrator to demonstrate the various uses to which carrageen can be put? If not, why are we, as taxpayers, asked to foot the bill for this huge expenditure for this exhibition? The Parliamentary Secretary should go there himself; it is his job, and he should do it. He should be in a position himself to see what successes are attending his efforts in this direction. He should find out what orders are being booked. I hear some jeering on the Government Benches. Why should they be jeering when one is speaking against this waste of money and a slipshod method of doing business? No wonder some people jeer and snarl. They are drawing a very substantial sum themselves. Do they think they will not be called to account? Why, if this work was well looked after, there would be three, four or five times the amount of kelp produced in the country than there is, and a market found for it through the Glasgow Exhibition and through the great advertisement the industry could be given there. I saw in the Press recently that our representative, Mr. Dulanty was up there to receive Her Majesty. Very well let us get something out of it that will be of some benefit to our people; otherwise why should we be there at all?

What is being done about pushing the tweeds at this British Empire Exhibition at Glasgow? Have we there a first-class exhibit of the very latest products? Have we a sales agent there, booking orders? What are the prospects for Irish tweeds? Are there models there of men's sports wear made from these tweeds? Have we ladies there as mannequins exhibiting ladies' sports wear to be made out of these tweeds? The Government have an opportunity, and an opportunity such as will not come to them every day, to advertise these goods now before the whole world. Let us, when a business opportunity presents itself, grasp that opportunity to the full. If the Parliamentary Secretary fails now to grasp that opportunity, when does he hope to get another opportunity? There will be people at that Exhibition from all the Commonwealth Nations, from America, and from most of the continental countries. Surely this is the best sales opportunity he will get for years to come. Is he going to see that there are exhibited there the very latest patterns and cloths of the highest quality at the right prices? I think it is of vital importance that the Parliamentary Secretary should have these things carefully looked into. Will he tell the House what has happened up to the present with regard to these sales and what are the prospects now with regard to kelp and carrageen? I again suggest that the Parliamentary Secretary should ask the Government to sanction sufficient funds so as to give a flat rate of £5 a ton for kelp. That would be a reasonably economic figure. The people around the coast, at that price, would go on burning the kelp, and in slack times it could be stored up until a favourable opportunity arose for disposing of it at a profit. That is the way in which the industry could be kept going. It would be money well spent. I do not mean to say that these people were ever living in luxury or that they had any great wealth from this industry, but a great many of them were fairly well off. They were people who did not expect too much. If the industry is again revived it will be a great help to these people. These are some of the matters to which I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to give his urgent, earnest and energetic attention.

Seán O Muinghile

Táim ag éisteach le leath-uair leis an Teachta McMenamin ag rádh a lán mar gheall ar cheist seo na Gaedhealtachta. Labhair go leor Teachtaí eile freisin ar an gceist chéadhna ach is beag an t-eolas a bhí ag a bhfurmhór ar an sgéal. 'Sé mo thuairim-se go mba cheart do dhuine éigin a innsean dóibh cá bhfuil an Ghaedhealtacht agus beagán a innsean dóibh fúithi. Sin a bhfuil d'eolas ag a lán acu air. Chuala mé Teachta annso a rádh nach bhfuil an Riaghaltas ag déanamh oiread is ceart dóibh a dhéanamh do mhuinntir na Gaedhealtachta. Táim féin lán-tsásta go bhfuil siad ag déanamh a ndicheall ar an gceist sin a réidhteach. 'Séan chéad rud a rinneadar dhá phunt a thabhairt in aghaidh gach páiste atá ag dul ar scoil sa nGaedhealtacht. Cabhruigheann sé sin go mór le neartú leis an nGaedhilge sa nGaedhealtacht.

Níor cheart aon difir a dhéanamh idir an bhFíor-Ghaedhealtacht agus an Breac-Ghaedhealtacht. Ba chóir iad do chur ar aon tseasamh le chéile. Tá an oiread Gaedhilge dhá labhairt sa nBreac-Ghaedhealtacht is atá sa bhFíor-Ghaedhealtacht. Nuair do bhí Riaghaltas Chumann na nGaedheal i gcomhacht chuireadar i roinn na Fíor-Ghaedhealtacht na scoltacha sin a raibh aithireacha agus níathaireacha na bpáistí ar a dtaobh agus tá siad sin ar a dtaobh go láidir fós. Thugadar an Bhreac-Ghaedhealtacht ar na scoltacha bhí ina n-aghaidh. Tá fhios agam féin faoi'n sgéal sin. Thugadar a lán rudaí eile do mhuinntir na n-áiteanna atá breachta síos mar Fhíor-Ghaedhealtacht. Ach tá an oiread Gaedhilge sa mBreac-Ghaedhealtacht is labhartar sa bhFíor-Ghaedhealtacht.

Tá níos mó measa ar an nGaedhilge anois ná mar bhí nuair a bhí mise ag dul ar sgoil. San am sin buailfí páiste a labharóchadh Gaedhilge sa sgoil. Tá athrú mór ar an sgéal indiú nuair a bronntar dhá phunt ar gach páiste a labhras Gaedhilge ar sgoil agus sa bhaile. Tá Gaedhilge agamsa ó bhí mé sa gcliabhán. Nuair a bheas an Riaghaltas ag cabhrú le tionnsgail na ceilpe beidh siad ag cabhrú leis an nGaedhilge cho maith. Más mian linn an teanga a chur ar aghaidh caithfidhmíd Fíor-Ghaedhealtacht a dhéanamh den Bhreach-Ghaedhealtacht. Dubhairt an Teachta O Mongáin morán annso i nGaedhilge. Ní dhéarfainn gur innis sé aon bhréag, ach is minic a chaitheas duine caint i ngan fhios dó féin gan aon bhunús fírinne léithi. B'fheidir go bhfuil mé cionntach sa rud sin mé féin. Dubhradh morán anso i mBéarla. Nuair a labhras Teachtaí i nGaedhilge ní bhíonn aon tuairisg ar an oráid sna páipéirí. Nílim-se ag gearán. Is cuma liom mara mbí mo chuid cainnte sna páipéirí. Is mian liom cabhrú leis an Riaghaltas as ucht na rudaí atá dhá ndéanamh sa nGhaedhealtacht. Tá a lán eile le déanamh ann, agus ní folár a lán eile do dhéanamh más mian linn cúis na teangan do chur ar aghaidh. Labharfamud níos mó Gaedhilge as so amach. Ba mhaith liom cabhrú leis an obair sin, agus sin é an fáth go bhfuil mé ag cainnt anso i nGaedhilge. Ba cheart eolas a bheith ag gach Teachta ar an nGaedhilge is cuma liom cén chuid den Teach seo a bhfuil sé. Ach tá an Riaghaltas ag déanamh a ndíchill ar son na ceilpe agus an chairrigin. Má labhair an Teachta O Mongáin uair amháin ar sin labhair sé céad uair. Cén fáth a bhfuil sé ag gearán? Nach bhfuil sé cinnte go bhfuil gach Teachta ar gach taobh den Teach seo ullamh ar chabhair a thabhairt do thionnsgal na ceilpe agus an chairrigin. Ar ndóigh nach bhfuilimíd go léir aontuighthe ar sin. Tá fhios agam go maith gur ceart duinn oibriú i gcomhar le congnamh a thabhairt do thionnsgal na ceilpe agus an chairrigin gan bheith ag troid le chéile annso. Bheadh sé sin níos fearr dhúinn féin agus don tír dá n-oibrighimís le chéile chun margadh fháil don cheilp agus don chairrigín. Ní thuigim cén fáth go mbeadh aon dream annso ag déanamh sochair as.

Mr. Brodrick

I think this is an Estimate that calls for some explanation from the Parliamentary Secretary. That explanation is in my opinion rendered all the more necessary because of what we have heard from the Fianna Fáil Benches this evening. The only thing that the Fianna Fáil Government has to its credit in dealing with the Gaeltacht, is unemployment assistance and the grant of £2 for each child in Irish-speaking families. Yet, these Deputies pride themselves on all they have done since they came into office. Deputy Bartley referred to the amount which the present Government has spent on housing as compared with the previous Government. If Deputies will look at the Estimates for 1931-32, they will find that the total Estimate for Gaeltacht services in that year was £141,000, while the total Estimate to-day for 1938-39 for Gaeltacht services is £91,000.

Mr. Bartley

Will you give the expenditure figures?

Mr. Brodrick

You took credit a few hours ago for expending money for which we had estimated in 1931, namely £141,000. Since your Government came into office they have been steadily decreasing the amount made available for Gaeltacht services.

Mr. Bartley

They increased the expenditure.

Mr. Brodrick

How can you increase expenditure if your Estimate is down by £50,000 per year within five years?

Mr. Bartley

Give the expenditure figures.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputies must address the House through the Chair.

Mr. Brodrick

If we take the Housing Estimate, in 1931-32 a sum of £80,000 was estimated for that purpose and in 1938-39 the amount of the Estimate is £47,500. We come to one very big question: why is there a reduction of £50,000 in the Estimate for Gaeltacht Services while, at the same time, general taxation in this country has gone up by about £6,000,000 a year? Can you account for that? Can the Parliamentary Secretary account for the fact that under sub-head A, salaries, wages and allowances, the headquarters staff in 1931-32 cost £14,453, with 40 people employed on that staff and that in 1938-39 we have 45 of a staff costing the State £16,545, although the total expenditure has been reduced by £50,000 inside five years? I move to report progress.

Progress reported, Committee to sit again to-morrow.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until Thursday, 12th May, at 3 p.m.