On the adjournment, Deputy Dillon proposes to raise the matter in Question 3 on to-day's Order Paper.
Adjournment Debate—Price of Maize Meal.
I asked the Minister for Supplies to-day whether he was aware that the price of maize meal in Northern Ireland is less than £6 per ton ex mill, whereas the price in Éire is £11 2s. 6d. ex mill, and what steps he proposed to take to correct this disparity in price. Since that question was put on the Order Paper, the price of maize meal, from certain mills in this country, has increased to £11 15s. per ton. The Minister's reply was that there was not much which he could do about it because maize was controlled in England, and that unless he controlled it here he did not see how he could remedy the disparity. He went on to say:
"The price for maize meal in Northern Ireland is, I understand, controlled and is approximately that ruling prior to the outbreak of war; unlike the current prices prevailing in Éire it bears little or no relation to the present world market prices for maize. With regard to the last part of the question, the only action open to me which would effectively remove the disparity would be to subsidise the price. I am not prepared to adopt that course."
As I understand it, the supplies of maize in this country are controlled indirectly by the Government. The Government, shortly after the war started, announced that supplies of maize would be very difficult to get, a statement which I doubt, and said that to surmount that difficulty they proposed to invite the millers of the country to form a combination called Irish Cereals Importers, Limited, or some such name, and that to their care would be entrusted the charge of importing all wheat and maize that could be got into the country. Now they have been in operation for some time—I ask Deputies to remember that this body, Irish Cereals Importers, Limited, consists of millers in this country—and the net result of their operations has been that the price of maize, an essential animal feeding stuff, has gone up from about 8/- per cwt. to £11 15/- per ton ex mill. Not only have they done that, but the same men have increased the price of the only substitutes available to us, namely, bran and pollard, by £3 a ton, from approximately £8 to £11, with the result that the only feeding stuffs available to live-stock producers in this country now average about £11 to £11 15/- per ton ex mill.
I feel bound to direct the attention of the Minister to the fact that, unless he takes effective measures, it will become absolutely impossible for our people to produce pigs, fowl or eggs in competition with the Northern Ireland farmer and the farmer in Great Britain. It is a matter of the most urgent necessity, from the point of view of the whole State, that we should maintain and increase our exports in order to get currency to meet our requirements. If there are two items in the entire agricultural industry capable of rapid expansion to redress our reduced exports, resulting from the impact of the economic war, these two items are pigs and pig products and fowl and fowl derivatives, such as eggs. We all recognise the difficulty of expanding rapidly cattle exports. That is a question which I do not propose to go into in detail now. It is generally agreed that it presents an almost insurmountable difficulty, and that we can only expand those exports slowly, but pigs and poultry are two things in which we can build up vast exports very rapidly at the present moment. Deputies will have seen that the British are so short of pigs that they are going to cure mutton and make mutton bacon—something like corned beef. I do not think any one is going to enjoy having a slice of corned beef with his egg for his breakfast.
In this matter of pigs and poultry, there is an immediate potential market waiting to be captured by our people. In fact, the Government in Great Britain have undertaken to give us, for any weight of pig, the price that is being offered in the domestic market for the top grade. That market is going to be lost to us unless we get feeding stuffs, and get them now, at a price which will enable us to compete with the Northern Ireland farmer and the farmer in Great Britain. The only way in which we can get the feeding stuffs we require is by the Government taking some steps to provide them. The Minister clouds all these matters of supply in a shroud of mystery. We were told to-day by the Minister for Supplies that he had sugar, or rather that the sugar company had bought sugar. He said that the price was agreed on and the quantity stated, but he would not tell us what they were. Now, he takes up the position, in regard to maize, that there is some mysterious difficulty in getting maize. I deny that there is any serious difficulty. I submit to the House that the only difficulty that stands in the Minister's way is this, that we are linked to sterling. The only balances we have available for the purchase of materials outside this country are sterling balances, and, whether we like it or not, we have got to face the fact that these sterling balances can only be readily used with the co-operation of the Bank of England and the financial authorities in Great Britain. I believe the situation is that the authorities in Great Britain are pressing us not to use our sterling balances for the purpose of purchasing supplies outside the sterling block. They say, in effect, to us that if we buy wheat in Canada or Australia they have no objection to these sterling balances being employed there, but that they do not want us to employ these sterling balances in the purchase of merchandise in America or the Argentine. They say to us: "If you want to declare an economic war on us by transferring unduly large sterling balances outside the sterling block, then two can play at that game and we will proceed to block you and put difficulties in the way." I hope the Minister will take up a sensible attitude and say to them that we do not want an economic war at all, but that we would resent bitterly any interference by the British Treasury in the manipulation of our sterling credits, while at the same time we have no intention of using these sterling credits for the purpose of injuring Great Britain any more than we want to injure any other country.
The reason we are not buying maize is because maize comes from the Argentine. Why not go to the people at the other side and ask to have the position examined, telling them that we must get maize because we want it? Let us try to manoeuvre a situation so that we can get in adequate quantities of maize and use our sterling balances for that purpose, at the same time saying to them that we will do what we can to facilitate them. But the present position is, that nothing is being done about it except a kind of hole and corner negotiation which is not direct, not frank and not open and above board, which results in our getting no maize, or else getting it in such miserable quantities, and by such devious routes and so expensive a method, that we are obliged to charge our people £5 per ton more than is being charged to the farmers in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. I put it to the Minister that the best thing he can do is to be frank with the House and tell the House what the facts are. If the Minister says that he can get full supplies of maize even for the next eight months, and that after that they may have to be cut down, then we are all prepared to co-operate with him, and our people will try to grow more barley and oats to take the place of the maize, but in the meantime it is of supreme importance to this State that quantities of maize should be secured for the poultry and egg industry. I solemnly assure the Minister that, to my certain know ledge, pig rearers who are in the business, and fowl rearers who are in the business, are seriously contemplating clearing out of it on the grounds that they cannot make money at it, but I am perfectly certain that they will hang on if the Minister gives them the assurance that, even though they are being pinched at the moment and are finding it very difficult to carry on, he will within a reasonable time get the price down and get reasonable supplies for everybody. I urge most strongly on the Minister the importance of saying something of that kind now, declaring what he intends to do and announcing a departure in respect of which he will be able to deliver the goods.
So far as the supply of maize is concerned, we have been unable for a number of weeks to keep up the normal supply. But so far as I can see for a number of weeks ahead the full normal supply will be available. So far as the question of the price of maize is concerned there is no mystery. There is a mystery so far as Northern Ireland is concerned. That mystery is that they fixed the price there at £7 a ton. Frankly I must say I do not know how they are doing it. I believe they have no maize; there is no maize available there. So I am informed. In the present circumstances it is not possible to sell maize meal at £7 a ton unless it is very heavily subsidised. In that respect there is no mystery. There are certain reasons why information on some things could not be given to the House. That is in cases where certain prices had been agreed on f.o.b. Plenty of contracts have been made. Agreements for the supply of certain commodities have been made without the price being exactly fixed or agreed upon, but in the case of maize there is no ambiguity. The price ranges from £8 to £9 a ton, and if we are to pay £8 or £9 a ton for maize, we cannot sell it for £7 a ton, which is the controlled price in Northern Ireland; nor are they doing it there. As I have already told the House, the position is that there is no maize in Northern Ireland, or if there is maize at £7 a ton, it is very heavily subsidised. It would be impossible for us within our resources to provide a subsidy that would enable us to sell maize at £7 a ton. The average price of that maize meal wholesale, as stated in reply to a telephone message this evening, is £10 14s. a ton. That was the figure given by the secretary of the Millers' Association. That is the price at a number of ports at which the maize is delivered. It is quite probable that inland millers are selling maize meal at a higher price than £10 14s.
Yes; I may tell the Minister that the price in Sligo is £11 15/- a ton.
So far as Sligo is concerned I was told that the retail price there was £11 5/- a ton.
The Minister's leg has been pulled.
We are not quite satisfied that the difference between the two prices of maize, the wholesale price of maize meal and the c.i.f. price has been fully explained. The matter is being examined into. It is not possible for us to get maize meal here at the price quoted by Deputy Dillon as being the price in Northern Ireland. I am satisfied they are not getting it in Northern Ireland at that price. In fact, there is no maize meal being sold there. We cannot get it here at that price unless we are prepared to subsidise the price very considerably. We cannot do that. In so far as the price of maize meal has increased the production of bacon no help can be given to the farmer except by increasing the price of his product.
Could the Minister not make the millers bring down the prices of bran and pollard?
I have authorised an increase of £2 in the price of bran and pollard. The Deputy must remember that we import bran and we cannot effectively ensure that the home produce will be sold at a lesser price than that of the imported article.
Are we exporting any bran or pollard?
No, we are exporting none whatever. As I have already said we are importing it and one cannot have too much disparity between the two things, between the price of the imported article and the price of the home-produced article. One of them is a substitute for the other. The price at which maize meal can be sold regulates the price of other feeding stuffs. We import maize at £8 or £9 a ton. Of course the price varies between one cargo and another and there are other reasons for the variation in the price.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, the 22nd November, 1939.