Committee on Finance. - Fire Brigades Bill, 1939—Committee Stage.
(1) In this Act—
the expression "the Minister" means the Minister for Local Government and Public Health;
the expressions "sanitary authority" and "sanitary district" have respectively the same meanings as they have in the Public Health Acts, 1878 to 1931;
the expression "fire brigade authority" means a sanitary authority which has established and is maintaining a fire brigade under this Act;
the expression "fire brigade" means an organised body of men trained and equipped for extinguishing fires occurring in buildings and other places and for rescuing persons and property from such fires, and includes (unless the context otherwise requires) the vehicles, pumps, hoses, ladders and other implements and equipment with which such body of men is provided for the purposes of their duties in relation to fires;
the expression "potentially dangerous building" means a building, structure, or erection (whether permanent or temporary) of any kind or of any materials which would, in the event of a fire occurring therein, constitute a peculiarly serious danger to life by reason of—
(i) the fact that large numbers of persons habitually resort thereto or are accommodated therein, or
(ii) the absence of any or any adequate appliances or fittings for extinguishing fires occurring therein or for enabling the occupants thereof to escape therefrom on the occurrence of a fire, or
(iii) the inflammable nature of the materials of which it is made, or
(iv) the fact that articles of an inflammable nature are habitually kept therein, or
(v) the absence of adequate means of exit therefrom, or
(vi) any similar cause.
I move amendment No. 1:—
In sub-section (1), to delete lines 17, 18 and 19 inclusive and substitute the following:—
in the cases of the Boroughs of Dublin, Cork, Dunlaoghaire, Limerick and Waterford, the expressions "sanitary districts" and "sanitary authority" have respectively the same meanings as they have in the Public Health Acts, 1878 to 1931; in all other cases, for the purposes of this Act, the expression "sanitary district" will be the administrative county as defined in the Local Government Act of 1898, but shall include every urban district within such administrative area, and the expression "sanitary authority" will be the executive authority entrusted with the administration of the administrative county as so defined and including the urban districts within such county.
The Parliamentary Secretary will appreciate that I have a two-fold object in putting forward this amendment. In the first place, on the Second Reading of the Bill I raised the question of seeing that a sufficiency of water was available for putting out fires and I pointed out that there is no use whatever in providing machinery for putting out fires—machinery of administration or the actual physical machinery, in the form of fire engines, etc.—unless there is an adequate fire brigade in each of the places where fires are likely to break out. I also stressed the fact that urban districts, of which we have in County Cork a proportionately greater number than there is in other places, are very badly off in the way of water supplies. In fact, that condition has become aggravated of late. From my inquiries into the question, I have come to the conclusion there is no urban district in practically the whole of Ireland where there are adequate water supplies or where they are in a position financially to provide sufficient water to deal with the emergencies visualised under this Bill.
Accordingly, having that object in view, I am trying to impress upon the promoters of this Bill the necessity for a central authority for the purpose of raising the necessary money to make provision for an adequate water supply where necessary. In that way, coupled with the County Management Bill—which I presume will be carried out and put into effect—I want to make the central authority, which will be the county administrative officer—the manager—responsible as the sanitary authority for the provision of an adequate water supply in all towns under his control; and I want that included in this Bill. Those various urban districts at the present time are separate sanitary authorities for the purpose of providing themselves with water and—as I have emphasised more than once—are not in a position to provide the necessary funds for water supplies. That is the main point I have in view in putting this amendment.
The second point is one dealing with the co-ordination of administration. There is power under the Bill for several sanitary districts to group themselves together for the purpose of adequately and more efficiently carrying out the Act. I think it would mean more efficiency and would make for better and greater co-ordination if the whole power were vested in one man for the county, so that there would be no fear of an absence of proper co-ordination. It was mentioned here in the course of the debate that trouble might arise through there being different sizes of hose, different sizes of stand-pipes and different sizes of connections in various places. Co-ordination of all these would be useless unless there were one authority who could see that things would run smoothly. We should have the same administrative authority exercised over the county in all the small towns.
There does not appear to be very much necessity for me to stress this point any further. I seem to have made a good case for it, and the more I have studied this Bill, the more convinced I am of the necessity for central administration. At all events the county should be the proper sanitary authority and the proper sanitary area for the purpose of carrying out the Act. It is absolutely necessary, if the Act is going to be worked, that each county be one administrative area, one unit, that one person be responsible for the co-ordination of the scheme in all the small towns, and that one man—who I presume will in future time be the county manager—be the person vested with authority and responsibility for the proper carrying out of this Act. In fact, I do not think this Act will work at all unless there is some central authority for the purpose of carrying it out. I believe that the smoothness and co-ordination which the Parliamentary Secretary has stressed so much will not be possible unless there is a sort of central authority with regard to this matter. I do not think I have anything to add. As I have said, I have put the matter from a two-fold point of view; one, for the purpose of seeing that the administration costs will be borne over a very large area, and therefore, fall lightly on the whole area of administration; and secondly, that there will be proper control centred in one person, well-equipped and well versed in the matter, and well qualified to administer this Act as we would like to see it administered.
The Deputy, I think, in the course of his advocacy of this amendment, made one very sweeping statement. He said that there is no urban district with an adequate water supply.
I said there were very few at all events, from my inquiries.
This matter was raised on Second Reading, and I thought I had convinced the Deputy that not only had we an adequate water supply in most of the large towns but that we were rapidly working towards the position of having an adequate and satisfactory water supply in most of the small towns. Deputy O'Neill, perhaps, during his absence on holidays, has forgotten those little exchanges that we had on the Second Reading. At any rate, the statement that no urban district, or even that comparatively few urban districts, have an adequate water supply, has no foundation in fact. I am not prepared to accept Deputy O'Neill's amendment. I do not think he has made a convincing case for it, and I do not think the House would permit me to accept the amendment if the House realised the implications of it.
The effect of Deputy O'Neill's amendment would be that the cost of establishing, equipping and maintaining fire brigade services in a county would become a county-at-large charge in future. Clearly, that would be inequitable as between a rural district and an urban district. The liability to serious outbreak of fire in a rural district is slight, at any rate as compared with the likelihood of serious outbreak in an urban district. Not only that, but the rural district will get, I think, a less satisfactory return from the fire fighting services, inasmuch as the same facilities for fire fighting cannot be made available in a rural district that can be made available in an urban district. I cannot see any convincing reason why this amendment should be recommended to the House. In the main, the urban authorities will be the active agents in providing fire fighting services under the Bill. It is anticipated that a rural sanitary authority will not maintain a separate fire fighting service in an urban district; that the rural authorities will, in the main, enter into agreements as provided for in the Bill for the use of the fire fighting service that is established, equipped and maintained in the urban area, and that the rural area will only be called upon to bear an agreed charge for the services rendered by the fire brigade maintained by the urban authority. I do not think it is necessary further to labour the matter. Presumably Deputy O'Neill is an urban man, and he is fighting the urban case here, but to accept this amendment would be, to my mind, anyhow, entirely unfair to the rural areas.
I should like to point out to the Minister that I am not an urban man; I do not live in an urban district at all. I live in a very remote place, very far from a town and far from a railway station, where I have to provide amenities in the way of electric light and so on out of my own pocket. With regard to the towns, I am concerned, as I said, with West Cork, which is one of the places where we have most of those towns of about 1,500 inhabitants or more. Not only have those places not a sufficient water system in them, in spite of the fact that they are paying very high charges for water, but they really have no water at all. During the recess I have come to the conclusion that the following towns, from the reports I have received from them, have not got sufficient water: Clonakilty, Macroom, Skibbereen, Kinsale and Bandon. All those are urban districts, with the exception of Bandon, which was wise enough to keep out of urbanisation and carries on still under town commissioners. I suppose there is no use in pursuing the matter further with the Parliamentary Secretary, but I want to point out that I really do not think he has got the urban mind, to the extent that he does not see or appreciate the problems of small towns—how they have deteriorated and how their rateable value has gone down.
I think this question will have to be met at some stage. I tried to bring it up here for the purpose of directing attention to the necessity of wiping out urban districts altogether, and bringing the whole county administration into one area of charge, not alone for this particular purpose, but for a good many other purposes as well, because those towns are not able to exist in view of the rates they are called upon to bear, the declining trade and diminishing population. I have put this matter to the Parliamentary Secretary as strongly as I can, and I think that at some time he will have to consider it seriously. I thought there was a good opportunity of raising the question on this Bill, because I think if you are going to fight fires effectively you must have a central authority. You must have a central power for raising your rates, and you must have a central power to have this matter carried out effectively. The Minister apparently does not see why the rural districts should pay for the urban districts. The urban districts, in proportion, will always have to pay higher rates than the rural people. They have more of the amenities of life than the rural people. The Parliamentary Secretary has deliberately lost sight of the fact that, if those urban towns are provided with this water, there is a means of making the individual ratepayer contribute his share, in the same way as in the case of the Electricity Supply Board, where the individual user of electricity has to pay for this form of energy, heat, light and power. In the same way, if the Parliamentary Secretary were broadminded enough to see what I have in mind with regard to this scheme, he would realise that it would become a paying proposition, and that in those towns the more they would enjoy the amenities of a good water supply the more they would be prepared to contribute as individual ratepayers. However, I put that very strongly to the Minister, because I do believe that some day or other this House will have to tackle this question of the declining urban districts. I do not want to force it to a division, but I will bring the matter up at some other time in another form.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I move amendment No. 2:—
In sub-section (1), page 2, lines 21 and 22, to delete the words "under this Act".
This is a drafting amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question:—"That Section 1, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 2.
(2) A sanitary authority may, for the purpose of making such reasonable provision as is mentioned in the foregoing sub-section of this section, do all or any of the following things, that is to say:—
(a) establish and maintain a fire brigade;
(b) provide premises for the housing of such fire brigade;
(c) make such provision in respect of the public water supply in such sanitary district as will ensure that a sufficient supply of water is available for and accessible to such fire brigade;
(d) establish and maintain in the public streets and in other places fire alarms connected with the premises in which such fire brigade is housed.
(3) A sanitary authority shall, in the performance of the obligations imposed and the exercise of the powers conferred on them by this section, have regard (in addition to all other relevant considerations) to the probable frequency and extent of fires in their sanitary district, the character of such district, the value of the property likely to be damaged by such fires, and the financial resources of such sanitary authority.
I move amendment No. 3:—
In sub-section (2), page 3, before the word "do" to insert the words "establish and maintain a fire brigade and, for the purposes of such fire brigade", and to delete paragraph (a), line 5.
This is a drafting amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 4:—
In sub-section (2), paragraph (d), page 3, to delete all from the word "connected" in line 12 to the word "housed" in line 13, and substitute the words "by means of which such fire brigade can be summoned".
This amendment, for all practical purposes is a re-draft. It has been suggested that the fire engine may be housed in a building apart from the house of the chief officer or other member of the fire brigade. It would probably be more satisfactory to leave the matter to be arranged in whatever manner is found most suitable to local conditions.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 5:—
Before sub-section (3), page 3, to insert a new sub-section as follows:—
(3) A sanitary authority may, in lieu of or in addition to establishing and maintaining a fire brigade under the next preceding sub-section of this section, do with the sanction of the Minister either or both of the following things, that is to say:—
(a) make an agreement with any fire brigade authority whereby the fire brigade of such fire brigade authority will be available and will give their services in relation to fires occurring in the sanitary district, or any particular portion of the sanitary district, of such sanitary authority as fully as if such sanitary district, or such portion thereof, were part of the sanitary district of such fire brigade authority;
(b) make an agreement with any person (other than a fire brigade authority) who maintains a fire brigade whereby such fire brigade will be available and will give their services in relation to fires occurring in the sanitary district, or any particular portion of the sanitary district of such sanitary authority.
This is largely a drafting amendment. Sub-section (b), which is new, will allow the local sanitary authority to make an arrangement with a body other than a local authority which maintains a fire brigade, such as the Army, or an industrial concern. This provision is not likely to be largely availed of, but it is considered desirable to include it in the Bill.
Mr. Brennan
I think that is a sensible amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 2, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.
(1) A sanitary authority may make an agreement with any fire brigade authority whereby the fire brigade of such fire brigade authority will be available and will give their services in relation to fires occurring in the sanitary district, or any particular portion of the sanitary district, of such sanitary authority as fully as if such sanitary district, or such portion thereof, were part of the sanitary district of such fire brigade authority.
(2) Whenever the Minister is satisfied, on the application of a sanitary authority, that such sanitary authority has endeavoured to make an agreement under this section with a particular fire brigade authority and is also satisfied, after consultation with such fire brigade authority, that it is reasonable, having regard to all the circumstances of the case, that such sanitary authority and such fire brigade authority should enter into an agreement under this section, the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—
(a) the Minister may by order require such sanitary authority and such fire brigade authority to enter, within a specified time, into an agreement under this section;
(b) every order made under this sub-section shall specify such and so many of the terms and provisions to be contained in the agreement made in pursuance thereof as the Minister shall think proper so to specify;
(c) when an order has been made under this sub-section, the sanitary authority and the fire brigade authority to which such order applies shall, within the time specified in that behalf in such order, enter into an agreement under this section containing the terms and provisions required by such order and containing such (if any) other terms and provisions (not inconsistent with the said terms and provisions so required) as may be agreed upon by such sanitary authority and such fire brigade authority;
(3) An agreement under this section may contain such relevant provisions (including provisions as to payment by the sanitary authority for the services of the fire brigade of the fire brigade authority) as may be agreed upon between the sanitary authority and the fire brigade authority.
(4) Where an agreement has been made under this section, it shall be lawful for the sanitary authority and the fire brigade authority who are parties thereto to carry out such agreement and, in particular, to pay and to receive moneys payable and receivable by such authorities respectively under such agreement.
(5) A sanitary authority which has made an agreement under this section with a fire brigade authority may do either or both of the following things, that is to say:—
(a) make such provision in respect of the public water supply in their sanitary district as will ensure that a sufficient supply of water is available for and accessible to the fire brigade of such fire brigade authority when rendering services in pursuance of such agreement.
(b) establish and maintain in the public streets and in other places fire alarms connected with the premises in which the said fire brigade is housed.
I move amendment No. 6:—
In page 3, to delete sub-section (1).
This is a consequential amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 7:—
In sub-section (2), page 3, line 31, to delete the word "this" and substitute the words "the next preceding", and, in lines 36, 40 and 50, to delete the word "this" and substitute the words "the said".
This is a drafting amendment consequential on the insertion of new sub-section (3) in Section 2.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 8:—
In page 4, to delete sub-sections (3), (4) and (5), and substitute a new sub-section as follows:—
(3) The following provisions shall apply and have effect in relation to agreements made under the next preceding section or this section by a sanitary authority for the availability of a fire brigade maintained by a fire brigade authority or other person, that is to say:—
(a) any such agreement may contain such relevant provisions (including provisions as to payment by such sanitary authority for the services of such fire brigade) as may be agreed upon between such sanitary authority and such fire brigade authority or other person;
(b) where any such agreement has been made, it shall be lawful for such sanitary authority to carry out such agreement and, in particular, to pay moneys payable by such sanitary authority under such agreement;
(c) where any such agreement has been made with a fire brigade authority, it shall be lawful for such fire brigade authority to carry out such agreement and, in particular, to receive moneys payable to such fire brigade authority under such agreement;
(d) where any such agreement has been made (whether with a fire brigade authority or with any other person), such sanitary authority may make such provision in respect of the public water supply in their sanitary district as will ensure that a sufficient supply of water is available for and accessible to the fire brigade to which such agreement relates when rendering services in pursuance of such agreement, and may establish and maintain in the public streets and other places fire alarms whereby such fire brigade may be summoned.
This is also a drafting amendment, which is made necessary by the previous amendments to Sections 2 and 3.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 3, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
Section 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 5.
Whenever the Minister receives a complaint in writing, signed by not less than 20 persons who are registered local government electors in a particular sanitary districts or are owners of property situate in that sanitary district, alleging that the sanitary authority of that district has failed to make reasonable provision in accordance with this Act for the prompt and efficient extinguishment of fires occurring in such district and for the protection and rescue of persons and property from injury by such fires, the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—
I move amendment No. 9:—
In page 4, to delete all words from the word "signed" in line 56 to the word "district" in line 58.
It is proposed to delete the requirement that 20 persons must combine to make a complaint to the Minister against the local authority. It is intended to simplify the procedure in accordance with the views expressed by some Deputies on the Second Reading.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 10:—
To add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows:—
(2) No action or other proceeding shall lie or be maintainable against a sanitary authority for the recovery of damages in respect of injury to persons or property alleged to have been caused or contributed to by the failure of such sanitary authority to comply with this Act or by the failure of such sanitary authority to exercise all or any of the powers conferred by this Act.
Section 2 imposes an obligation on the sanitary authority to make reasonable provision in connection with fire-fighting. If damage caused by the outbreak of a particular fire could be made the basis of a claim against the local authority it is considered that there is a possibility that public funds might be liable to be applied towards compensation which can at present be obtained only on the basis of contractual arrangement between a private person and an insurance company. It is intended by the amendment to maintain the existing position and to confine the remedy for default under the Act to the procedure already set out in the section.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 5, as amended, stand part of the Bill,"—put and agreed to.
SECTION 6.
(1) Where one or more fire brigades are present at a fire which has broken out in the sanitary district of a sanitary authority, sole charge and control of all operations for extinguishing such fire shall be vested in the officer specified in whichever of the following paragraphs is applicable, that is to say:—
(a) if the sanitary authority has established a fire brigade and that fire brigade is present at such fire —the captain or other officer thereof who is for the time being in charge of that fire brigade at such fire;
(b) if the sanitary authority has not established a fire brigade but has made under this Act an agreement with a fire brigade authority for the use of their fire brigade and that fire brigade is present at the fire—the captain or other officer of that brigade who is for the time being in charge thereof at such fire;
(c) if neither of the foregoing paragraphs of this sub-section is applicable—the captain or other officer of the fire brigade of a fire brigade authority which first arrives at the fire who is for the time being in charge of that fire brigade at such fire.
I move amendment No. 11:—
In sub-section (1), page 5, to delete the words "captain or other" where they occur in lines 30, 36 and 39.
There is no good reason for giving statutory recognition to the term, "captain". "Captain" is being superseded by the term "chief officer".
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 6, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 7.
(1) In this section the word "building" means a building, structure, or erection (whether permanent or temporary) of any kind or of any materials.
(2) A sanitary authority may serve on the proprietor of any building which appears to such sanitary authority to be a potentially dangerous building a notice (in this Act referred to as a fire precautions notice) requiring him either—
(a) to refrain absolutely from using such building, or a specified part of such building, for the purpose or any of the purposes specified in such notice, or
(b) to refrain from using such building, or a specified part of such building, for the purpose or any of the purposes specified in such notice unless or until specified appliances or fittings are provided therein or specified structural alterations or additions thereto are carried out to the satisfaction of the sanitary authority.
(3) The following provisions shall apply and have effect in relation to every fire precautions notice served by a sanitary authority, that is to say:—
(a) every such notice may be served on the proprietor of the building to which it relates by sending it in a prepaid registered letter addressed to him at the said building;
(b) where the name of such proprietor is unknown or cannot be ascertained such notice may be addressed to "the proprietor" without naming him;
(4) Any person upon whom a fire precautions notice has been served and in respect of whom it is in force, who contravenes such notice, whether by act or omission, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds, and, in the case of a continuing offence, to a further fine not exceeding five pounds for every day during which the offence is continued.
I move amendment No. 12:—
In sub-section (1), page 5, line 51, after the word "section" to insert the words "the word `proprietor' includes the successor in title of a proprietor and".
This amendment explains itself. It is a drafting amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 13:—
In sub-section (1), page 5, line 53, after the word "materials" to add the words "and where different persons are the proprietors of different parts of a building, each such part of such buildings shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to be a building and the proprietor thereof shall be deemed to be the proprietor of a building."
As drafted, the Bill makes provision for the service of notice, etc., on a proprietor in respect of a building but it does not cover the position where there are different proprietors in different parts of the same building. The amendment is meant to cover that position.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 14:—
In sub-section (2), paragraph (b), page 6, to delete all words from the word "appliances" in line 1 to the end of the sub-section and substitute the words "precautions are taken to the satisfaction of such sanitary authority whether by the provision in such building of specified appliances or fittings or by the execution of specified structural alterations or additions to such building, or by the doing in relation to such building of any other thing whatsoever".
The wording of the section as originally drafted is not considered sufficiently comprehensive. For example, it has been suggested that the local authority might find it necessary to require provision to be made in such a matter as lighting of passages, etc., leading to exits.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 15:—
In sub-section (3), page 6, before paragraph (c) to insert a new paragraph as follows:—
(c) every such notice shall specify a time within which the requirements thereof are to be complied with.
A fire precautions notice will not come into force until 14 days from the date on which the notice is served. A further period will be allowed by this amendment for the carrying out of the alterations.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 16:—
In sub-section (4), page 6, to delete all words from the beginning of the sub-section to the word "omission" in line 60 and substitute the words—
"If either—
(a) the proprietor of a building in respect of which a fire precautions notice is in force, or
(b) any other person having control of such building who knows that such fire precautions notice is in force in respect of such building,
contravenes or causes or permits a contravention (whether by act or omission) of such notice, such proprietor or such other person (as the case may be)."
It is considered insufficient to provide for a penalty against the proprietor alone. In many cases the responsibility for compliance in practice with the provisions of a fire precautions notice would rest on the proprietor's authorised agent or some other person having actual control of the building.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 7, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 8.
(1) In this section the word "building" means a building, structure, or erection (whether permanent or temporary) of any kind or of any materials, and the expression "authorised officer" means an officer of a sanitary authority who is authorised in writing under the seal of such sanitary authority to exercise the powers conferred by this section on authorised officers.
I move amendment No. 17:—
In sub-section (1), page 7, line 19, after the word "officers" to add the words "and includes a person who is an officer of a fire brigade authority which has agreed with a sanitary authority for the availability of the fire brigade maintained by such fire brigade authority and who is authorised as aforesaid by such sanitary authority."
As drafted, the section confers powers of inspection on an authorised officer of the local authority in whose areas the premises to be inspected are situated. It is thought that cases may arise where it would be desirable if the local authority had made an arrangement for the use of a fire brigade of another local authority, under Section 2, as amended, that an authorised officer of the fire brigade authority should also have this power of inspection.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 8, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 9.
(3) Where any damage to property is caused by the exercise in relation to any fire of a power conferred by this section, the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—
(a) such damage shall, for all purposes and in particular for the purpose of any contract of fire insurance, be deemed to have been caused by such fire;
(b) any clause or condition inserted in any contract of fire insurance purporting to exclude the risk of damage which is, by virtue of the next preceding paragraph of this sub-section, deemed to be covered thereby, shall be void and of no effect.
I move amendment No. 18:—
In sub-section (3), page 8, in lines 28, 29 and 30, to delete the words "the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:
(a)",
and to delete paragraph (b).
Amendments Nos. 18 and 23 are intended to meet points made by Deputy Costello which are intended to be covered by his amendments. It is entirely a matter of drafting, and there is difference of opinion amongst the experts as to what particular elegance of phraseology ought to be adopted. I think there is general agreement that the Ministerial amendments completely meet the points that Deputy Costello had in mind.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Amendments Nos. 20 and 22, in the name of Deputy Costello, go together.
I think, if Deputy Costello were here, he would express himself as satisfied that amendments Nos. 18 and 23 meet the points he has in mind.
Mr. Brennan
Amendments Nos. 19 to 22, inclusive, not moved.
I move amendment No. 23:—
In page 8, to add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows:—
(4) Any clause or condition inserted in a contract of insurance purporting to exclude or having the effect of excluding the risk of damage caused by the exercise of a power conferred by this section shall be void and of no effect where the risk of damage caused directly by the fire in relation to which such power is exercised would be covered by such contract
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 9, as amended, agreed to.
Section 10 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 11.
I move amendment No. 24:—
Before Section 11, to insert a new section as follows:—
Every person who shall knowingly give a false alarm of fire (whether by means of a street fire alarm, a telephonic communication, a direct statement, a message, or otherwise whatsoever) to a fire brigade maintained by the sanitary authority for a sanitary district in which this Act is in force shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds.
The position as regards penalties for false fire alarms is at present governed by the False Alarms of Fire Act, 1895. It has been thought more satisfactory to repeal that Act which is now so much out of date and to insert a specific provision governing the matter in the present Bill. That is the purpose of amendment 24.
Mr. Brennan
Are you repealing that Act?
Yes, in a later amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 12.
(1) A sanitary authority may, with the consent of the Minister and subject to the enactments relating to the appointment of officers of sanitary authorities, appoint such and so many persons to be members of a fire brigade established and maintained under this Act by such sanitary authority as such sanitary authority shall consider requisite.
(2) Every person appointed under this section to be a member of a fire brigade shall, subject to any enactment empowering the Minister to fix the remuneration of officers of a sanitary authority, be paid such remuneration as the sanitary authority maintaining such fire brigade shall, with the consent of the Minister, determine.
I move amendment No. 25:—
In page 9, to delete all words from the word "with" in line 36 to the end of the section and substitute the words "subject to the enactments relating, directly or indirectly, to officers or servants of sanitary authorities, appoint such officers and employ such servants as are necessary for the performance of the functions vested in such sanitary authority by this Act".
As the section stands, it empowers a local authority to appoint only members of a fire brigade, whereas the administration of the Act might require other personnel—an inspector of potentially dangerous buildings, for example. The section, if amended as proposed, will confer comprehensive powers in regard to this matter.
Mr. Brennan
You are making provision for further appointments?
We are empowering local authorities to make further appointments, if they think they are necessary.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 12, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Sections 13 and 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 15.
(3) Where, at any time prior to the passing of this Act, any expenses were incurred by the sanitary authority of any sanitary district for the establishment or maintenance of a fire brigade or for the extinguishing of fires occurring in such district or for the protection or rescue of persons or property from injury by any such fire, and such expenses were, in the opinion of the Minister, properly so incurred, the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—
(a) if such expenses could lawfully have been incurred under this Act if this Act had been in force when they were incurred, such expenses shall be deemed to have been incurred under this Act, and this Act shall apply and be deemed always to have applied to such expenses accordingly, and
(b) if any sum was, at any time either before or after such expenses were incurred, included in any rate in order to defray such expenses, and such sum could lawfully have been so included if this Act had been in force at that time, such rate shall not be or be deemed ever to have been invalid or irrecoverable merely by reason of such inclusion.
I move amendment No. 26:—
In sub-section (3), page 10, line 11, to delete the words "passing of this Act" and substitute the words "commencement of this Act in a sanitary district", and in line 12 to delete the word "any" and substitute the word "that".
This is a drafting amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 27:—
In sub-section (3), paragraphs (a) and (b), page 10, after the word "force" where it occurs in line 20 and also where it occurs in line 28, to insert the words "in the said sanitary district".
This is also a drafting amendment, and is consequential on an amendment to Section 18.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 28:—
In page 10, to add at the end of sub-section (3) a new paragraph as follows:—
(c) the next preceding paragraph of this sub-section shall not be precluded from applying to a rate made by the sanitary authority of a county health district merely by reason of any such sum as in mentioned in that paragraph having been charged by means of such rate on an area other than the whole of such district.
In the case of some boards of health, it is understood that certain minor expenditure which rural sanitary authorities previously had power to incur, had been charged to areas other than the county health district which is contemplated in Section 15 (2). This amendment will preclude such expenditure being rendered invalid in the current year by reason of the county health district not being the area of charge.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 15, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Section 16 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 17.
The enactments mentioned in the Second Schedule to this Act are hereby repealed to the extent specified in the third column of that Schedule.
I move amendment No. 29:—
In page 10, line 38, to add at the end of the section the words "in every sanitary district in which this Act has for the time being come into force".
This is a consequential amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 30:—
In page 10, to add at the end of the section two new sub-section as follows:—
(2) Every provision in any enactment (whether of general or local application) which is of similar or corresponding effect as or is inconsistent with any section or sub-section of this Act shall, to the extent of such similarity, correspondence, or inconsistency (as the case my be), cease to have effect in any sanitary district to which such enactment applies and in which this Act has come into force.
(3) Every provision in any enactment which confers on a sanitary authority a power of making charges for services rendered by a fire brigade maintained by such sanitary authority shall cease to have effect upon this Act coming into force in the sanitary district of such sanitary authority.
It is intended that when this Bill is passed it should constitute a uniform code of fire fighting law throughout the country and that existing legal Acts which may differ in some respect from the Bill should be repealed. The amendment will not affect the powers given to a local authority by Section 4 to recover a fee wherever a fire brigade is sent on request to a district in respect of which an agreement has been made for the purposes of the fire brigade.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 17, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECTION 18.
This Act may be cited as the Fire Brigades Act, 1939.
I move amendment No. 31:—
In page 10, to add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows:—
(2) This Act shall come into force on such day as the Minister shall by order appoint for that purpose in respect of each sanitary district, and different days may be so appointed in respect of different sanitary districts.
It is becoming fairly clear on further examination that it would not be possible to bring the Bill into operation throughout the entire State on the one day, and this amendment is to empower the Minister to bring the Bill into operation from time to time as he finds that the local authorities are in a position to operate it.
Mr. Brennan
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 18, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
First Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.
SECOND SCHEDULE.
Enactments Repealed.—17 and 18 Vict., c. 103 (The Towns Improvement (Ireland) Act, 1854)—Section 73.
41 and 42 Vict., c. 52 (The Public Health (Ireland) Act, 1878)—Section 76.
7 Edw. 7, c. 53 (The Public Health Acts Amendment Act, 1907)—Part VIII.
I move amendment No. 32:—
In page 11, to insert before the Public Health Acts Amendment Act, 1907, the following Act:—
58 and 59 Vic., c. 28 (The False Alarms of Fire Act, 1895)—The whole Act.
Mr. Brennan
Was this simply an omission from the Schedule already printed?
We are making provision in the Bill now for an addition to the Schedule dealing with false alarms. In the original draft, we were relying on this Act to cover the false alarm position.
Mr. Brennan
Is that not adding to the Second Schedule already published, or are you proposing to delete the Schedule already published?
This is an addition to it.
Amendment agreed to.
Second Schedule, as amended, ordered to be the Second Schedule to the Bill.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported with amendments.
When is it proposed to take the Report Stage?
Would the House have any objection to taking the further stages now?
There is the question as to how far the Minister has met the points raised by Deputy Costello. Some of us are rather interested in that matter and I think, on that ground alone, further consideration of the Bill should be postponed.
All right. We shall take the Report Stage this day week.
Report Stage ordered for Wednesday, 28th February.
