asked the Minister for Supplies if he will state whether, in view of the official statement that has been made that in spite of the increased percentage extraction from wheat in the production of flour, it is not intended that there will be a reduction in the price of flour or bread, he will state (1) the increased resultant profit per ton to millers, (2) the total such increase anticipated (a) by the end of the present cereal year, and (b) during the next 12 months, (3) the arrangements, if any, that have been made to create a special fund to offset possible increases in the price of flour, (4) the anticipated amount of the fund, (5) the authority under which the fund is being created, and will be used, and (6) the machinery which will control it.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Flour and Bread Prices.
As regards the first two parts of the question, it is not anticipated that the standard profit of the flour-milling industry will be increased during the present cereal year. It is not possible to state what will happen during the next 12 months as it is not expected that imported wheat will be available after the end of the present cereal year. The price paid by millers to Grain Importers (Éire), Ltd., for imported wheat has been increased so as to offset any possible profit which might be derived by millers due to the use of flour of increased extraction. It is anticipated that as a result of this arrangement a sum which may be in the region of £100,000 should be available by the end of the present cereal year for use in maintaining the price of flour at a lower level than would otherwise be possible at that stage. This amount is purely an estimate which may not be realised should unforeseen circumstances arise. The arrangement was made under my direction, and the question of the actual machinery to be used for the disposal of any funds which may accumulate in consequence of this arrangement has not yet been decided.
Can the Minister say who will hold the £100,000, or whatever sum it will be?
It will be held by Grain Importers, Ltd.
Does the Minister realise the implications of this arrangement, that, according to his own calculation, a sum of £100,000 is to be levied on bread to be appropriated for a purpose, the exact nature of which has not yet been determined, and the accounting for which will be made to nobody, and, if the Minister stands over such a procedure, will be explain how he can reconcile that procedure with the existence of the Department of the Comptroller and Auditor-General whose duty it is to see that taxation appropriated by this House is properly applied?
There is no question of taxation in this case.
Might I ask the Minister if the effect of this arrangement is not this: that there will accrue a fund of £100,000 resulting from an excess charged for grain to the millers during the next six months, and if that is not taxation of wheat, and indirectly taxation of bread, will the Minister tell me what it is?
What objection is there to the Minister controlling this fund?
I have stated in my answer to the question that arrangements for the control of the fund have not been decided.
The Minister has already stated that grain importers are going to be charged an additional amount and that the additional amount charged is going to be held by Grain Importers, Ltd.
The millers.
By Grain Importers, Ltd.?
Yes.
Can the Minister give the House any assurance that the sum of £100,000 which is to be taken out of the pockets of the consumers by Grain Importers, Ltd., during the next six months will be properly accounted for and returned to the community at any given date, and who will vouch for the correct appropriation of the sum?
Will the Minister say whether this proposal really means that functions which should be exercised by the Revenue Commissioners are now being transferred to Grain Importers, Ltd.?
The Deputy has been deceived by Deputy Dillon's reference to a tax.
I am not asking Deputy Dillon; I am asking the Minister whether the position is that functions which should be exercised by the Revenue Commissioners are now to be exercised by Grain Importers, Ltd.?
That is not the position.
Will the Minister say what is the position?
The price charged for grain sold by Grain Importers, Ltd. to the wheat millers is now being increased.
Grain Importers, Ltd., import wheat at a certain figure and put a tax on it before handing it over to the millers.
They imported wheat at a whole variety of figures, but it has been sold at a flat price fixed by me, a price which at various times in the course of the past year yielded what might be regarded as a higher profit than would ordinarily be the case and, at times, yielded a loss. We stabilised the price of flour and the price of bread, and we are proposing to continue to stabilise the price of bread, and if this arrangement operates to secure temporarily a profit for Grain Importers, Ltd., the whole of that profit will be used to continue to maintain bread at a lower price than that at which it otherwise would be.
The Minister is surely aware that Grain Importers, Ltd., are the millers he has in mind. It is about time——
If the Deputy desires to ask a question, he should do so.
Grain Importers, Ltd., are a company established at my request, the Articles of Association of which provide that if it is wound up, any excess assets will be paid to the national Exchequer.
It is all eye-wash.
Does the Minister justify to this House the taxation of bread by a company representative of the millers of the country, without any accounting to the House for the method in which that taxation is disposed of when the time comes to disburse it?
There is no tax on bread.
Does the Minister justify the raising of a fund by Grain Importers Ltd., at the expense of the bread consumers of this country, without any provision whatever for an accounting of that fund to Oireachtas Eireann, which is supposed to be the taxing authority?
I do not quite know what is behind this agitation which Deputy Dillon is trying to start, but it is a fact that if this increased extraction were allowed to have its full effect on prices, there would be a decrease in the price of flour charged to bakers, with no decrease in the price of bread.
That is not true.
I am entitled to say here what is a fact.
And I am entitled to say that it is not a fact.
The Deputy is not entitled to interrupt the Minister.
If I am not to be allowed to speak without interruption, I will not speak at all.