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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Mar 1941

Vol. 82 No. 7

Ceisteanna.—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dublin Meat Supply.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state whether he has considered the proposals made by representatives of the live-stock producers, the Dublin victuallers and the Dublin salesmen for an extension of the existing method of supplying meat to the City of Dublin; and, if so, whether he will now state what he intends to do to meet the wishes of the various interests concerned.

I have considered the position in regard to the supply of meat to victuallers in the County Borough of Dublin and the Borough of Dun Laoghaire and am satisfied that in the existing emergency the temporary arrangements made are working satisfactorily.

Does the Minister consider that the present arrangement is working satisfactorily when the salesmen are not in a position to get the type of meat they normally handle, and have no choice whatever in the matter? In particular, is the Minister aware that the type of carcase which victuallers are getting is totally unsuitable for their trade? Will the Minister again look into the matter to try to meet the wishes of the people concerned?

I think that the position has considerably improved. Undoubtedly, in the first week, when the committee were ordered to clear a certain area, they had to take heavy cattle as well as small cattle, the result being that some of the butchers supplied got cattle much heavier than they had been accustomed to take. The butchers are being much better suited now, I think.

Will the Minister say, if a victualler goes to the abattoir for supplies, has he any choice with regard to the carcases he gets?

If at all possible, he will be suited.

If he has no choice, how does the Minister consider that the position is satisfactory?

I do not say it is satisfactory from everybody's point of view, but I think it is the most satisfactory arrangement that can be made considering there is foot and mouth discase in the country.

Is the Minister aware that we certainly do not think it is satisfactory, and is he not prepared to consider at least allowing individual butchers to negotiate with individual farmers to buy and sell cattle subject to a veterinary licence granted by the Department of Agriculture?

No. I think there is a great danger in that scheme. There is the danger we are trying to avoid —the danger of dealers going to the farmers' places to look at cattle.

But suppose that practice of going to the farm is prohibited? Is the Minister aware that there is a large number of farmers here with age-old associations with victuallers in this City, who normally send a postcard saying "We want half a dozen beasts", and the farmer, well knowing the butchers' requirements, consigns them? Surely, if the trade is done on that basis, subject to a veterinary permit, that is a safer arrangement than the arrangement at present operating, where there is no veterinary licence required. Under the additional safeguard of a veterinary licence, would the Minister consider granting that concession?

A veterinary licence will not get over the danger I have in mind, that is that if you adopt that scheme you will have dealers going to the farmers' places. That is the very thing we want to avoid.

The proposal is not one involving the employment of middle men at all, but of direct trade between the victualler and the farmer, which is characteristic of the Dublin victualling trade. Could not that be permitted?

I am afraid it would lead to the middle men coming in. That is the only fear I have.

I do urge on the Minister to reconsider this request, because the granting of that concession would greatly relieve the situation.

I think that, as far as the victuallers are concerned, every day it will be easier to suit their requirements. It may be possible to give them a greater choice in the buying of carcases than it was possible to give them up to the present.

Is the Minister aware that there is the gravest possible public doubt and anxiety about the profits that are being collected?

That is a separate question.

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