But human needs may be best served by enabling a traction engine or a crusher, or something of that kind, to work. At any rate, the proportion devoted to that purpose is relatively small in comparison with the total. It would be absolutely negligible in counties such as Mayo, Donegal, Cork, and so on, while in the smaller counties it might be greater. Now, the next question which arose was the question of whether we were to depend, and to what extent we could depend, on sources other than the county surveyors for the purpose of cutting turf. Here, again, there has been a difference, and a legitimate difference, of opinion—sometimes, I am afraid, expressed, probably, became men were talking extempore and without giving consideration to the impression that might be left. I shall take Deputy Brennan's case as an example. He said that the Taoiseach did not understand the turf position—that, in districts such as his own, men could not cut that turf because they only had a small bank. On being pressed a little further, the Deputy said, in effect: “Well, they do cut a certain amount of turf, but when they have to do their ordinary harvesting, they do not feel inclined to go any further in the matter of cutting turf.” What I am inclined to think is that people will have to go a great deal further than they are inclined to go, and that legitimate leisure may have to be invaded for purposes of this character. Take the case of a farmer who faces January and February with an empty grate and a famished family because he has no turf since he could not steal any more time, either from his husbandry or his leisure, for the purpose of getting that turf. Contemplating that new condition, when his family was without fuel, his outlook upon that leisure, and his objection to stealing that time from his harvesting operations, might be different. He might say that he wished that he had put himself to a very great deal more trouble during that particular time so that, in January and February, his wife and his family should not be cold for want of fuel. The prosperous farmer, however, in districts such as Deputy Brennan has spoken of, will not be cold, and neither will his family be famished with the cold during the winter for the lack of turf which he did not rut, but some other family may be, and what I want is that those who are in the position, by the sacrifice of their leisure and by going to a very great deal of trouble, if necessary, to cut another harvest of turf, should do so in order that some other man's family may not be cold. I hope that those who are in a position to do so will do it, and thereby, give a good example to many hundreds of others.
I have no doubt, as Deputy Crowley said, that the people in the West—the people in the "black" areas, the people who know what cold is and what hunger is, who have lived in these areas and have experience of hunger and cold—will follow the advice and the call that has been given to them, at any risk and at any sacrifice to continue to cut, and cut, and cut, until they are sure that the last sod which can be saved before next April has been cut. I am sure that other tens of thousands of men are going to follow that advice and that lead, and I want Deputy Brennan, as representing areas which do not know those necessities— areas which are not themselves pressed exiguously and hard into the necessity for cutting this harvest—to impress on everybody the necessity to follow the lead of the people in the "black" areas, so that every one of these people, when January and February come, can have it to say, with a good, honest conscience, that by some special effort and by doing something more than might have been reasonably expected of them, they have ensured to some other man and his wife and family freedom from the hardships which they themselves have escaped. I am satisfied that there are thousands of places in which an extra harvest of turf could be cut. I am satisfied that if in every place where it is possible to cut turf, the people who can do it will now do it to the extent of providing us with the second certain, and the third risky, harvest, the difference between hardship for a lot of people in this country and comparative comfort will be made up bv their efforts, and I am asking, in the spirit of co-operation which has been shown by all Parties and by all sections of the community in relation to this campaign, that those who are more fortunate than others should go out and organise those who are better off with a view to seeing that that is done.
Various Deputies have raised the question of the conditions of employment and of wages, and while I think, broadly speaking, that the House is satisfied that a reasonable and a proper wage is, in fact, being paid for this work over the whole country, there was a suggestion in certain quarters that some hardship—and possibly even some hardship without that consideration which should be given that hardship—was being caused. Deputy Everett was very strong on that point, and so was Deputy Murphy. They were very specially strong on the question of piece-rates. Deputy Everett said that there were 100 men on strike in Wicklow on account of piece-rates— that they had been refused 32/-, that they were on strike for that reason, and that if somebody at headquarters was not full of red tape and regulations and did not interfere with the discretion of the county surveyors, things would have been all right. Well, I told the House yesterday that the figure for employment would be about 30,000, as we had estimated it this week. The figure is 29,719, and there are 100 men on strike. Looked at objectively, those two figures rather suggest that, however irregular and however various and different have been the rates of wages and the methods of payment and employment, on the whole a satisfied employer is in presence of a very large body of satisfied employees.
In order, however, to clear up the position completely, I will deal with the 100 men who are on strike against piece rates, having been refused 32/-because the discretion of the local surveyor had been interfered with from headquarters. This is a letter which was issued on the 21st June in relation to this matter by the chief engineering adviser:—
"To all County Surveyors.
"It is very desirable that some effort should be made during the season to introduce in each county a trial of the piece work system of turf production. Accordingly, I would be glad if you would arrange for a few gangs of men to undertake turf production on piece rates as in operation under the Turf Development Board. Copies of these rates have already been sent, to you. If you have any difficulty in arranging for this, you could, if you wish, guarantee the workers on this trial the ordinary weekly wages. They could then have for their week's work either their ordinary weekly wages or their earnings on a piece-work basis, whichever was higher. I would suggest that the men selected for the work might be some of your regular county council workers who might be likely to give the system a fair trial. As the end of the season is approaching, I would be glad if you would introduce such a trial as soon as possible."
I do not think that the sense of the House will agree that a strike has been caused in Wicklow by the imposition, through interference with the discretion of the local officers, of a piece rate and by a refusal to pay the ordinary time rate. In other words, we have a perfectly clean sheet of 30,000 employees who have been treated fairly, and who so regard it.
The second point put up is the iniquity, apparently, of piece rates. There were some strong expressions of opinion on that subject. I am going to quote from one of the strongest attackers of that system something with which I agree. Deputy Murphy strongly dissented from an attempt to change the system of a weekly wage to a piece-rate system; bog work was not easy; it required efficient men in a good state of health; men will give of their best and profit by experience if treated with sympathy and understanding. I think that whatever system is adopted must be adopted with a recognition of the physical condition and capacity of the men when they go on to the bog, and with the intention of treating them fairly. It has been suggested, however, that there is something intrinsically wrong and intrinsically unjust in a peice-rate system; that there is something being imposed upon men who, if they could come out from under that tyranny, would give willingly. That certainly is not borne out by the facts. The position at the moment is that, in the three counties in which piece rates are being paid, more turf is being produced per man, and a lot more money is being paid per man, and the people who are working under it would not change from it for anyone.
