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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 17 Feb 1943

Vol. 89 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Vote 16—Superannuation and Retired Allowances.

Tairgim:—

Go ndeontar suim breise ná raghaidh thar £2,000 chun íochtha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh Márta, 1943, chun Pinsean, Aois-Liúntaisí, Cúitimh, agus Liúntaisí agus Aiscí, Breise agus eile, fé Reachtanna iolardha (4 & 5 Will. 4, c. 24; 22 Vic. c. 26; 50 & 51 Vict. c. 67; 55 & 56 Vict. c. 40; 6 Edw. 7, c. 58; 9 Edw. 7, c. 10; 4 & 5 Geo. 5, c. 86; 9 & 10 Geo. 5, c. 67 agus c. 68; 10 & 11 Geo. 5, c. 36; Uimh. 1 de 1922; Uimh. 34 de 1923; Uimh. 7 de 1925; Uimh. 27 de 1926; Uimh. 11 agus Uimh. 36 de 1929; Uimh. 32 de 1933; Uimh. 9 de 1934; Uimh. 39 de 1936; Uimh. 29 de 1938; Uimh. 16 agus Uimh. 21 de 1939; Uimh. 24 de 1942; etc.); Pinsean, Liúntaisí agus Aiscí Eis-Reachtúla arna ndeonadh ag an Aire Airgeadais; táillí do Dhochtúirí Réitigh agus corr-tháillí do Dhochtúirí; etc.

That a supplementary sum, not exceeding £2,000, be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1943, for Pensions Superannuation, Compensation, and Additional and other Allowances and Gratuities under sundry statutes (4 & 5 Will. 4, c. 24; 22 Vic., c. 26; 50 & 51 Vict., c. 67; 55 & 56 Vict., c. 40; 6 Edw. 7, c. 58; 9 Edw. 7, c. 10; 4 & 5 Geo. 5, c. 86; 9 & 10 Geo. 5, c. 67 and c. 68; 10 & 11 Geo. 5, c. 36; No. 1 of 1922; No. 34 of 1923; No. 7 of 1925; No. 27 of 1926; No. 11 and No. 36 of 1929; No. 32 of 1933; No. 9 of 1934; No. 39 of 1936; No. 29 of 1938; No. 16 and No. 21 of 1939; No. 24 of 1942; etc.); Extra-Statutory Pensions, Allowances, and Gratuities awarded by the Minister for Finance; fees to Medical Referees and occasional fees to Doctors; etc.

What are these pensions?

Mr. Byrne

Might I ask if the Minister will give sympathetic consideration to the granting of increases in pensions to servants of the State who were pensioned four or five years ago and who are now finding it very difficult to exist on the pensions fixed for them in 1938 or 1939?

I am afraid there is no money in this Supplementary Estimate for that purpose. It is for very specific purposes.

Mr. Byrne

There is quite a lot in it about superannuation.

It is for a specific purpose—for the Ordnance Survey, to which we agreed to give money, and payment of children's allowances to the children of a deceased civil servant.

The Minister did not say that.

It is for superannuation.

Mr. Byrne

When I saw the heading: "Superannuation and Retired Allowances", I thought I might ask the sympathy of the Minister for these pensioners. I thought that under that heading he might consider sympathetically a number of people who went out on pension in 1938 and 1939 and who now find it impossible to exist on their inadequate pensions and have to queue up to complete for employment with young people. I urge him to consider these cases of people who served the State well and who went out in the years prior to the outbreak of the war on pensions which are not now sufficient to allow them to exist.

I take it that sub-heads A and B cover the whole pensions code 1834 to 1932.

What do they cover?

The Minister might give some guidance to the Chair.

The sum of £2,000 provided in this Supplementary Estimate is required to meet expenditure in connection with (a) increased superannuation and additional allowances to certain retired officers formerly serving in the Ordance Survey; and (b) payment in respect of children's allowances to the children of a deceased civil servant. Certain Ordnance Survey officers were discharged from their employment during the war of 1914-1918. If these officers had joined the British Army at the time, their posts in the Ordnance Survey would have been kept open for them and the period of their military service would have been reckoned for superannuation purposes. When they failed to join the British Army, they were discharged from the Ordnance Survey with the pensions or gratuities to which their service entitled them. They were later reinstated in our service and certified under the Superannuation Act, 1925, or the Superannuation Act, 1936, but under those Acts their pensionable service was allowed to remain only from the date of discharge as the inclusion of their previous service would involve double reckoning for the purposes of the Superannuation Acts of the same period of service.

To meet the difficulty, however, that these officers should be put in at least as good a position as their colleagues who had not been victimised, power was taken in the Superannuation Act, 1942, to reckon their earlier service for pension. The gratuities paid will be recovered as an offset to the additional benefits conferred, but pensions being paid by the British Government are not subject to our control. Offset will be secured in the case of pensioners by issuing from our funds the difference between the pensions paid by the British Government to these officers and the full amount of the pensions which would be payable if awards were being issued on the basis of their total service. The amount provided in the Supplementary Estimate represents the cost in the current financial year of the reassessment, with effect from the date of retirement, of pensions or gratuities already granted to retired officers of the Ordnance Survey.

Allowances not exceeding a certain fixed maximum in each case are payable in respect of the dependent children of certain civil servants whose salary scales are differentiated on a marriage basis. Where the fathers are still serving in the Civil Service, the children's allowances are borne on the salary sub-heads of the Votes for the appropriate Departments. The expenditure provided for in the Supplementary Estimate represents the sum payable in the current financial year in respect of the children of a deceased civil servant. As the children's allowances in this case are no longer portion of the salary of a serving civil servant. they cannot properly continue to be borne on the salary sub-head of the Department—in this case, the Department of Industry and Commerce—in which the deceased officer was serving at the time of his death. The payment being a non-effective one has, accordingly, been transferred to Vote 16— Superannuation and Retired Allowances—which provides exclusively for non-effective payments.

Vote put and agreed to.
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