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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Apr 1943

Vol. 89 No. 14

Committee on Finance. - Vote 54—Gaeltacht Services.

Tairgim:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £9,979 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun ioctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith inioctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1944, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí i dtaobh Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta, maraon le Deóntaisí um Thógáil Tithe.

That a sum, not exceeding £9,979, be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1944, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Gaeltacht Services, including Housing Grants.

Tá laghdú £34,989 ar an meastachán so i gcompráid le dhá mheastachán na bliana roimhe seo. Chífear, ámhthach, gurb é fé ndear sin ná go bhfuiltear ag meas gur mó iad na Leithreasaí-i-gCabhair a bhéas le fáil. Is mó de £1,666 an méid a meastar a caithfear, taobh amuigh den phá oibre agus costaisí eile a híoctar amach as na Leithreasaí-i-gCabhair. Baineann méadú £337 leis an gCeann-Ionad agus £7,875 leis na Tionnscail Mhára; agus baineann laghdú £4,992 leis na Tionnscail Tuaithe agus Taisc-Ionad Láir na Margaíochta agus £1,554 le Teach-Soláthar.

Ag tagairt don mheastachán in a mhír agus in a mhír ní gá a rá maidir leis na Mírchinn A go C, a bhaineas leis an gCeann-Ionad, ach gurb é is mó fé ndear an méadú glan orra ná breis ar an mbónus a bhéas le n-íoc agus gnáth-bhreisithe ar thuarasdail. Ní misde a thabhairt fé ndeara i dtaobh na fóirne, go mbaineann £4,824 den tsuim atá á soláthar di le hoifigigh atá ar iasacht ag Ranna eile Rialtais.

Maidir le Mírcheann D 1, a bhaineas le Tuarasdail na Saoistí agus Bainistreásaí atá ós cionn na nIonad Tionnscal Tuaithe, isé fé ndear an méadú de £734 ná bónus na haimsire éigeandála so agus athruithe ar chuid de na rátaí tuarasdail. Ní gá aon rud do rá i dtaobh na Mírcheann D 2, D 3, D 4 agus D 5 atá, nach mór, mar a bhíodar an bhliain roimhe seo.

Baineann na Mírchinn D 6, D 8 (1) agus D 9 (b) le soláthar le haghaidh abhar do na Tionnscail Tuaithe agus sé mór-mhéid atá á sholáthar ná £133,930 i gcompráid leis an £143,000 a soláthruíodh an bhliain roimhe seo leis an mbun-mheastachán agus leis an meastachán breise a bhí againn. Ní misde a rá in a thaobh sin gur féidir go rabhthas ró-dhóchasach, toise an t-airgead a bheith le spáráil ar mhírchinn eile, i dtaobh an mhéid abhar d'fhéadfaí a cheannach fé D 6. San iomlán ceaptar ná beidh mórán difríochta idir an méid a caitheadh an bhliain sin agus an méid ata á sholáthar don bhliain seo chughainn.

Meastar gur féidir go mbeidh laghduithe beaga ar a gcaithfear fé D 7, a bhaineas le hIol-Chostaisí na dTionnscal Fighteacháin, agus fé D 8 (2) go dtí (6), a bhaineas le hIol-Chostaisí an Tionnscail Bhréagán. Is laghduithe ar a meastar do Chostaisí Iomchair is mó fé ndear sin.

Maidir le Mírcheann D 9, a bhaineas leis an Tionnscal Sníomhacháin, tabharfar fé ndeara go bhfuil sé roinnte in a dhá chuid: ceann (a) fé ná fuil á sholáthar ach £10 mar chomhartha i dtaobh an Mhuilinn Sníomhacháin atá le bunú i gCill Chártha, Contae Dhúin na nGall, agus ceann (b) a bhaineas le hoibriú muilinn sníomhacháin i Rinn na Scríne, Condae Chorcaighe, atá tógtha againn ar léas d'fhonn snáthanna do chur ar fáil don Tionnscal Figheadóireachta atá ar siúl ag an bhFó-Roinn i gCill Chártha agus magcuairt. Níl ach comhartha sa mhéid atá á sholáthar don Mhuileann Sníomhacháin i gCill Chártha ach ní misde a thuigsint nach ionann sin agus a rá na ceannófaí an maisínreadh sníomhadóireachta atá ag teastáil chun é bhunú, dá ráinigheadh go scaoilfí chughainn an maisínreadh ón mBreatain Mhóir.

Ní gá aon rud do rá i dtaobh na Mírcheann E 1 agus E 2, a bhaineas le Tuarasdail agus Taisdeal na dTionnscal Mara.

Tá méadú £7,460 ar an soláthar fé Mhírcheann E 3 don Tionnscal Ceilpe agus Feamainne. Níor cheannuigh an Roinn ach 330 tonna ceilpe anuraidh in ionad an 1,000 tonna dár soláthruíodh i dtosach na bliana agus 3,000 tonna feamainne tiormuithe in ionad an 3,500 tonna dar soláthruíodh mar an gcéanna. Sé fé ndear dúinu gan níos mó ceilpe do cheannach ná daoine eile bheith á ceannach in áiteanna áirithe, gan tástáil, agus gan sinne bheith sásta a leithéid do dhéanamh toisc ná tiocfadh as dar linn ach caighdeán na ceipe d'ísliú. Do chúrsaí ceilpe na bliana so tá fógruithe againn go n-íocfar aisti dréir £1 an t-anonad de mhéid an íodín agus go mbeidh £10 an tonna mar bhar-phraghas uirri. Tá sócair againn, tar éis dúinn dul i gcómhairle leis an Aire Talmhaidheachta, ceannach agus díol na ceilpe mar leasachán, nó mar chuid de leasachán do thabhairt fé smacht. Ceaptar, dá bhárr sin, gur fearr-de an tionnscal féin agus gur fearr-de an t-abhar a bhéas le fáil ag lucht déanta agus ag lucht úsáidte leasacháin cheilpe.

Tá méadú £365 ar an soláthar fé Mhírcheann E 4 don Tionnscal Cairrgín. Ní bhaineann an soláthar san ach leis an gcairrgín a pioctar agus a pacáltar ag an Roinn chun é chur ar an margadh i gcóir bidh. Is mó go mór a húsáidtear an cairrgín chun cúrsaí ceárdais thar lear ná chun bidh ná ceárdais sa tír seo agus tá méadú mór tar éis teacht ar an bpraghas a híoctar as, de bhrígh ná fuil aon chairrgín eile ar an margadh sa Bhreatain fé láthair. Ó thaithighe, is féidir a rá gur baoghal don tionnscal daoine gan chleachta bheith ag plé leis d'fhonn proifíd mhór do dhéanamh le linn an chogaidh agus gan beann aca ar an mí-cháilíocht don chairrgín a thiocfadh as a mí-ghníomhartha maidir len a cheannach agus maidir len a láimhseáil. Is mór againn cáil is clú cairrgín na hÉireann agus, d'fhonn an cháil is an clú sin do chosaint, tá socair againn ceannach agus cur-tar-lear an chairrgín do thabhairt fé smacht. Ceaptar go dtiocfaidh as ucht an smachta sin gur mó-de na praghasanna a bhéas le fáil ag lucht bainte agus sábhálta an chairrgín; gur fearr-de caighdeán an abhair a cuirfear ar an margadh annso agus tar lear; agus go gcuirfear in áirithe go mbeidh ag an tír seo a riachtanaisí féin den abhar. Tá margadh maith ann anois do gach cairrgín a baintear agus a sábháltar i gceart.

Tá méadú £581 sa tsoláthar fé F 1 a bhaineas le tuarasdail Taise-Ionad Láir na Margaíochta agus sé bónus na haimsire éigeandála is mó fé near sin. Ní gá aon rud do rá i dtaobh na ndifríochtaí beaga atá ins na soláthair fé F 2 agus F 3, a bhaineas le Fógraíocht agus lolchostaisí an Taisc-Ionaid.

Níl ins na soláthar fé rannaí an Mhírchinn G ach comharthaí, taobh amuigh den tsoláthar fé roinn (6) do Sheirbhísí Báid. Níl ach aon tSeirbhís den tsórt sin i gceist, sin an tSeirbhís idir Dún na Séad agus Oileán Cléire, i gCondae Chorcaighe. Maithtear don bhádóir costas suirbhéireachta an bháid agus tá i gceist go mbeidh ar an Roinn rud éigin d'íoc freisin in aghaidh costaisí deisithe an bháid an fhaid a bhaineas caolracht le hioncuim na Seirbhíse le linn na haimsire éigeandála so.

Toise na ndeacrachtaí a bhaineas anois le cúrsaí Teach-Sholáthair, níl líon na fóirne atá i mbun na hoibre lasmuigh chómh mór agus bhíodh agus sin fé ndear na laghduithe atá le feicsint i Mírchinn H 1 agus H 2 do Thuarasdail agus Taisdeal na fóirne sin. Ní bhaineann an soláthar fé Mhírcheann H 4 ach le costas cothabhála agus deisithe na dtithe cómhnuithe atá ar cíos uainne ag Múinteóirí sa bhFíor-Ghaeltacht. Níl aon togra fé bhráid fé láthair chun tithe nua den tsórt sin do chur ar fáil.

Meastar gur mó de £36,655 na Leithreasaí-i-gCabhair a bhéas le fáil i mbliana i gcómpráid leis an mbliain roimhe seo. Baineann £27,400 de mhéadú leis an dTionnscail Tuaithe; £7,995 leis an dTionnscal Ceilpe agus Feamainne; agus £1,370 leis an dTionnscal Cairrgín Bidh. Meastar go níocfar amach £58,100 mar phá oibre ins na Tionnscail Tuaithe an bhliain seo i gcompráid leis an £47,270 a measadh don bhliain roimhe seo.

Tugann na figiúirí seo leanas léargus éigin ar an dul chun cinn a bhain le cúrsaí pá oibre ó 1935-36 amach:—

Bliain

Luach

1935-'36

£9,802

1936-'37

£12,768

1937-'38

£14,680

1938-'39

£18,766

1939-'40

£26,391

1940-'41

£38,517

1941-'42

£43,544

1942-'43 tuairim is

£43,000

agus bé méid na ndíolachán—

Bliain

Luach

i 1935-'36

£34,432

i 1938-'39

£46,183

i 1941-'42

£177,513

Brathann stáid na dTionnscal Tuaithe san am le teacht ar scéal na n-abhar a bhéas ar fáil. D'éirigh go rí-mhaith linn sa méid sin go dtí so, agus déanfaimíd ár rdícheall chun leanúint den stáir sin—ach ní foláir a thuigsint go bhfuil sé ag i níos deacra abhair dhéantóireachta fháil.

Sé fé ndear breis fáltaisí bheith á meas don Tionnscal Ceilpe agus Feamainne ná praghas na ndíolachán bheith dá árdú dréir praghas na gceannachán agus sinne bheith dá cheapadh gur mó den cheilp a bhéas againn le díol an bhliain seo. Maidir leis na fáltaisí a meastar do dhíolacháin an Chairrgín, ní misde dhom a rá arís ná baineann na díolacháin sin ach leis an gcairrgín bidh a pacáltar ag an bhFo-Roinn. Is mó go mór ná sin a ndíoltar den chairrgín chun cúrsaí ceárdais tar lear agus sa tír seo. Tá le tabhairt fé ndeara go bhfuilimíd ag súil go slánóidh na fáltaisí airgid ón gCeilp agus Reamainn agus Feamainn agus ón gCairrgín a bhéas á chaitheamh orra fé Mhírchinn E 3 agus E 4.

Ní misde dhom mar fhocal scuir a iarraidh ar na Teachtaí gan tabhacht na hoibre atá dá déanamh fén bhFo-Roinn seo, Seirbhísí ná Gaeltachta, do mheas dréir beag-mhéid an airgid atá dá lorg in a cóir. Is amhlaidh is mó atá á chaitheamh ná mar a caitheadh riamh cheana, ach ina choinnibh sin is mó go mór na fáltaisí airgid a gheibhtear ón gcaiteachas sin. Ní beag sin i laetheanta so na ndeacrachtaí agus na n-ollghlaoite ar airgead an Stáit.

I have not very much to say on this Vote, but I am interested in the fact that the Department has now taken over control of both carrageen and kelp. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to tell the House whether the fact that the Department has taken control of the purchase and sale of kelp will adversely affect the market? While he may tell us if that is not so, will the Department be the only purchaser; will competition be excluded? The same applies to carrageen. I should like to know definitely whether or not the control of carrageen refers to carrageen for human food or carrageen for industrial purposes. Industrial carrageen is sold in bulk; you take it at its face value. I sincerely hope that, in taking control of the entire production of carrageen, the Department will see that a just price is paid to the gatherers. I should like to have an assurance from the Parliamentary Secretary that the taking over of control of the carrageen industry by the Department is not purely with the object of excluding competition in the buying of carrageen from the people who gather and save it. That would be a very arbitrary step to take. Seeing that competition is excluded, and the Department has taken control of the entire industry, I should like to know how the price will be arrived at? Will the Department take a standard price and pay accordingly, or, when selling the carrageen in the British market for industrial purposes, will it endeavour to secure the best price from the people who use it and pay a proportionate price to the gatherers? I should like to know, too, how the price of carrageen for human food will be arrived at in the absence of competition.

With regard to kelp, I do not see why the Department should exclude from the market people who come in and buy kelp without a test, provided they pay the gatherers and burners what those gatherers and burners consider a good price—a price apparently better than the Department will be prepared to pay, because otherwise the kelp would not be sold to the Department's competitors in the market. The people who buy it without a test are taking their own risk. I should like to know why they are being excluded. They are not getting an article about which there is any deception; they are buying in bulk, and taking their own risk. If the kelp were being sold to those competitors of the Department as something other than it actually is, I could understand the position, but when there is no test applied to it, I do not see why these people should be put off the market.

I am very curious to know the reason for it. Perhaps it is that the Department want the entire production of the country for the purpose of manufacturing fertilisers. If that is so, one can see the importance of it, and the justification from the national point of view. With regard to the export of it, if, in fact, any of it is being exported, I do not see why any limitation should be put on competition. It is all right if the Department is selling a high-class article of a specified grade; it is then for the Department to see that the article sold is what it purports to be, but I suggest that if other people intervene in a manner which helps to raise the price of kelp, if they are anxious to buy it in bulk without any test, if there is a surplus which can be exported and which commercial buyers are prepared to purchase, I think it would be a hardship not to allow them to do so, and I cannot imagine that the Department would take such a step arbitrarily in order to put competitors out of the market and keep the material to themselves.

I should like to hear more with regard to the supplies of raw material for the spinning mills. Assuming no addition is made to present stocks, over what period would those stocks permit the mills to run? As to the new machinery which was to be brought into the country for the purpose of treating Irish wool, I should like to know if it will be suitable for treating Scotch wool, the wool of black-faced sheep suitable for use in Gaeltacht tweeds. Are steps being taken to enter the market and purchase as much of this wool as will keep the mills going for at least two years? The price of wool now, seeing there is no export market for the wool of black-faced sheep, is moderately low. Relating the price of tweeds to the price of wool, one can hardly see any justification for it. The wool of black-faced sheep is not bringing more on the market than in pre-war days, and the price of tweeds is almost treble what it was then. I should like to know has the cost of production gone up to that extent.

I do not think it would be a sound policy for the Department deliberately to inflate the price of our tweeds as against tweeds produced from imported wools or Merino wool-deliberately to inflate the price in order to make an extra profit, because the opportunity presented itself. That would not be a sound policy. If the Department can produce a tweed at a reasonable price and take a reasonable profit from it, it would be more desirable. I should like an explanation of the price of raw wool in this country as related to the increased price of tweeds, and I should also like to know what are the prospects with regard to the spinning mill that is on loan, according to the Parliamentary Secretary's statement. Will it be capable of producing all that is required? What is the position with regard to the supply of dyes? Has the Department the variety of dyes essential in order to keep up the high class quality of these tweeds?

Tá a fhios ag muintir na Gaeltachta go bhfuil siad ag fáil cuidiú anois agus tá siad lántsásta go bhfuil an obair ag dul ar aghaidh annsin.

Tá ceist amháin ba mhaith liom do chur ar an Rúnaí Pairliminte agus tá súil agam go bhféachfaidh sé isteach sa scéal. Tá an mhonarcha bréagán ag dul ar aghaidh, agus ag tabhairt cuid mhór oibre do na cailíní ins an cheanntar. Nuair a thoisigh an mhonarcha ansin trí no ceithre bliana ó shoin ní raibh an praghas ró-mhaith. Tá siad ag fáil praghas i bhfad níos fearr anois—níos aoirde ná fuair siad sul ar thoisigh an cogadh. Maidir le sin, tá cuid mhór a rá gur cheart árdú pháigh do thabhairt do na cailíní atá ag obair ins na monarchanna sin. Fuair siad cuidiú ó na cailíní agus cuidiú mhór ón stiúrthóir.

Is ionmholta an scéal maidir le seirbhísí na Gaeltachta i mbliana arís agus níl aon fhocal le rá agamsa ag cáineadh a gcuid oibre ach a mhalairt. Ba mhaith liom, ámthach, tuille eolais fháil ón Runaí Páirliminte, cén chaoi a n-oibreofar an smacht atá le cur ar thráchtáil na ceilpe. Chonnacas ar an bpáipéar le gairid go mbeidh an tráchtáil seo faoi smacht na Roinne agus ba mhaith liom fháil amach an mbeidh cead ag na ceannuightheoiribh a bhí ag ceannach ceilpe, í do cheannach arís i mbliana, no an mbeidh gníomhairí ag an Roinn dá gcuid fhéin ag á ceannach.

Ba mhaith liom colas fháil freisin ar cheist seo an test. Roimhe seo bheadh test ann le haghaidh íodín agus is le haghaidh leasú talmhan anois a deintear an cheilp. Níl fhios agam an bhfuil an test sin ann fós, ach má tá, ba mhaith liom eolas fháil ar tuige an. bhfuil sé ann anois, nuair nach íodín atá le déanamb den cheilp. Sin cheist do chuir duine orm timcheall seachtain ó shoin agus ba mhaith liom go dtabharfadh an Rúnaí Pairliminte aire dó.

Tá na daoine lán-tsásta ar fad faoi an árdú praghas. Tá sé suas go dtí deich bpúnt anois agus tá ana-áthas orra. Tá fhios ag an Rúnaí Páirliminte agus ag gach duine go bhfuil eolas na fairrge aige gur obair an-anróiteach í seo, agus da mhéid da dtéigheann is amhlaidh atá sé saothruighthe go cruaidh ag na ceilpeadóiribh. Is dona an ghaoth nach séideann maith do dhuine éigin agus tar éis trí bliain den cogadh, is maith an rud é an praghas fheiceál beagnach cho-hárd agus a bhí sé sa chogadh deireannach. Ach níl an buidheachas uilig ag dul don chogadh, tá moladh tuilte ag an Roinn freisin mar gheall ar an bpraghas sin.

Tá obair na ceilpe níos tábhachtaighe anois ná aríamh mar gheall ar ganntain leasughadh talmhan a thagadh isteach ó áiteachaibh taobh amuigh. Tá an saothrughadh ag déanamh maith do na feilméaraibh agus don churaideacht chomh maith le na ceilpeadóiribh. Má bhíonn an Roinn réasúnta leo, beidh siadsan ceart agus díreach leis an Roinn, agus déanfaidh siad a ndícheall le saothar na ceilpe a mhéadughadh is a chur 'un cinn ar mhaithe leo fhéin agus ar mhaithe leis an tír.

Níl aon aimhreas orm nach ndéanfaidh an Rúnaí Páirliminte nua atá i mbun na Roinne a chion fhéin le feabhas a chur ar na ceilpeadóiribh agus ar a gceird.

The satisfactory progress which has been made in this Department and which has been continued particularly during the past few years is deserving of a tribute, and in paying it, it would not be out of place to add the predecessor of the present Parliamentary Secretary. The increase in the amount of wages paid is shown in the figures that have been submitted in the statement read out by the Parliamentary Secretary this evening. In 1935-36, the wages in the woollen Gaeltacht industries were £9,802 and the wages for last year were £58,100. In regard to sales, the figures for 1935-36, were £34,432 and last year they went up to £177,513. This is a very remarkable tribute to the Parliamentary Secretary and it is reflected in the industries throughout the country, in the increased earnings of the workers and the increased income from the sales of the manufactured goods.

The amount voted for these industries has increased by leaps and bounds in the last few years, and it will be generally conceded by those in touch with the industries that the money is very well spent. There is very little one can say by way of criticism of this Estimate, but there is just one point that I would like to make. In his statement, the Parliamentary Secretary refers to the difficulty that will be experienced in regard to materials. He tells us that they have been very successful in this matter so far and that every effort is being made to maintain supplies, though it is becoming increasingly difficult to obtain the materials. For some years past, some people outside this House, and some inside it, have been asking the Gaeltacht Department not to depend so much on outside supplies of machine-spun yarns but to try to develop the hand-spun and hand-woven cloth. If the Department concentrated entirely on machine spun yarn they would undoubtedly have to depend on such yarns when there is a scarcity of material.

There is plenty of wool available in the country, and there is no reason why the Department should not now depart from their previous policy and develop that business and manufacture a hand-spun, hand-woven cloth. That industry was existing in Donegal in Gaeltacht areas, but for some time past it has been practically dormant owing to the scarcity of material. For some months past, the industry has been booming again. There is no reason why the Department should not anticipate events. They should not allow the excuse that there is a scarcity of materials to cause a lag in any way in the furthering of the hand-spun, hand-woven industry.

I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the hand spinners and weavers in south-west Donegal to express their appreciation of the action of the Gaeltacht Department in putting at their disposal some plant that the Department had, and was not using, and which is used for the carding of wool for the hand-spun material. It was a very gracious act of the Department, and one which was very much appreciated by the hand spinners and weavers.

There is one other matter. I notice here an increase of £734 in sub-head D (1), which refers to the salaries of charge-hands, etc. Deputy Breslin has referred to the workers in the toy industry at Crolly, and has made a plea for them. I would like to join in that plea and include in it the weavers and workers in the various spinning centres throughout the country. It is common knowledge that the people engaged in the knitting industries of private firms were granted a bonus some weeks ago. I do not know whether the Department has given that increase to their workers or not. If not, they should follow the lead. It was given by a tribunal set up by the Department of Industry and Commerce, and that bonus is to apply to the workers in the knitting industries and weaving industries. I congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary and his predecessor on the splendid work that this Department is doing for the Gaeltacht industries.

Sé seo céad mheastachán na bliana seo. Ní misde a rá gur meastachán tábhachtach é, mar baineann sé leis an nGaeltacht. Tuigimíd an chaoi ina bhfuil muintir na Gaeltachta agus an cruadhtan atá acu, leis an mbochtanas talmhan agus mar sin de. An t-airgead atá á chaitheamh againn ar an nGaeltacht, ní hairgead in aisge é, mar tá rud á fháil thar nais againn ó na daoine atá níos luachmhara ná airgead—an teanga agus an cultúr a bhaineann leí.

Táim ana-bhuidheach dos na Teachtaí a labhair agus a mhol an fó-Roinn seo mar gheall ar an obair atá á dhéanamh acu, go deimhin tá obair mhaith ar siúl againn le roinnt bliana agus is mian linn dul ar aghaidh leis an deagh-obair sin. B'fhéidir nach féidir na daoine go léir do shásamh maidir le stiúrú na Roinne seo ach déanfaimíd ár ndícheall. Mar gheall ar na poinntí dár dhein an Teachta Ó Breasláin tagairt dóibh, sé sin, árdú páigh do thabhairt dos na daoine atá ag obair i monarcha na mbréagán i gCroichslighe agus in áiteanna eile. Caithfidh mé a rá gur tugadh árdú páigh dos na daoine seo i dtosach na bliana, díreach fé mar tugadh árdú páigh dos na daoine eile a bhí agus atá ag obair fén Stait.

Maidir leis an bpoinnte a bhí ag Teachta O Brádaigh, deineadh an rud céanna dos na daoine a bhí i gceist aige sin. Thugamar árdú páigh dóibh ar aon dul le seirbhísí eile an Stáit i dtosach na bliana. Mar dubhairt na Teachtaí tá proifíd níos mó á dhéanamh againn fé láthair ná mar bhí, ach ní h-ionann san agus a rá gur ceart duin árdú páigh do thabhairt do réir mar tá an scéal ag dul i bhfeabhas. Is feidir súil a choimeád ar an gceist ó am go ham agus aire do thabhairt dos na poinntí dár dhein na Teachtaí tagairt dóibh. Maidir le ceist na ceilpe gur dhein an Teachta Mac Partholáin tagairt dó, ní mór dom cur síos ar sin i mBéarla mar do labhair an Teachta Mac Menamin ar an rud céana.

Even though it can be seen that the Estimate for the Gaeltacht Services this year is much less than it was last year—£24,979 as compared with £59,968 last year—that is not to be taken as indicating that there is any contraction of activity or any diminution of expenditure in connection with our work in the Gaeltacht Services. On the contrary, the gross total expenditure in the Gaeltacht shows an increase of £1,666 on last year, the figure this year being £217,699 as compared with £216,033 last year. I think the best criterion of all, the best way in which to judge whether we are making progress or not in connection with the Gaeltacht Services, is to examine the wages that we are paying. Deputy Brian Brady referred to it. Last year we paid £47,270 in wages and this year we estimate that we shall spend £58,100, nearly £11,000 of an increase. All that money goes into the pockets of the people in the Gaeltacht, and as Deputies will see from the Estimate of £24,979, for every £ that this House makes available for the Gaeltacht there is nearly £3 going into the Gaeltacht.

Deputy McMenamin and Deputy Bartley referred to the question of kelp. We have taken over control of the kelp and carrageen industries. We thought it was necessary to do so in order to preserve them. This Department first began to take an interest in the kelp industry in 1931 and 1932. At that time there was a market for iodine with the result that the price of kelp made it worth while for the gatherers in the Gaeltacht to engage in the industry. Owing to circumstances which intervened, the bottom fell out of the kelp industry after a couple of years, and the situation remained like that until 1941. In that year, owing to the scarcity of artificial manures, a demand arose again for kelp, the result being that many people who never before had engaged in the kelp industry are now anxious to get into it. We would not mind so much how many people went into the industry to derive a living from it if the genuine article was turned out in all cases, but what happened, due to the demand for kelp and the price that it was fetching in the market, was that people began to adulterate it, to include extraneous matter in it so as to make it bulky, as well as more money for themselves.

It has been decided to keep all the kelp available in the country as a fertiliser. Of course, it is the farmers who will be using it in the end. We want to make sure of two things: (1) that nothing will happen to discourage or undermine the industry or give it a bad name; and (2) we want to make sure that, when the farmers get this kelp as a fertiliser, they will be getting the genuine article. That is why we have taken control of the kelp industry. As I said in my opening statement, the average price of kelp this year will be £8 per ton. Some of it, I believe, will go to £10 per ton, but the average price will be £8. The price compares very favourably with the price per ton paid for it last year, which was about £6 10s. per ton. This year's price, therefore, represents an increase of 30/- per ton over last year. I think the people in the Gaeltacht will be very well pleased with that price, and it should be an incentive to them to produce more. So much for the kelp. I have given the House a justification for the giving effect to the Emergency Order which controls the output and management of kelp. Our Department, of course, will be the sole purchaser of kelp. Deputy Bartley made reference to the question of agents. There will be no outside agents from this on. The kelp will be purchased through this Department and by its officials. By that means we shall make sure that the people of the Gaeltacht who engage in the kelp industry will get as much for their labour as it is possible to give them. As Deputies are aware, Seirbhise na Gaeltacht is not a profit-earning concern. We do not want to make a profit on anything. In fact, we do not even make ends meet. We do not balance our budget. There is always a margin on the wrong side, our policy being to put as much money as we possibly can into the pockets of the people in the Gaeltacht. In this connection I should mention that no consideration of sparing money will be allowed to come between us and the carrying out of schemes in the Gaeltacht provided those schemes have a reasonable chance of success and will give reasonable employment. But the difficulty is to find those suitable schemes. It will tax our initiative and resourcefulness.

We shall continue to carry out that policy and I am sure that in taking control of kelp we will be able to ensure that the people of the Gaeltacht will get a higher price for it. Of course there are different grades, and the value differs according to the iodine content. Deputy Bartley referred to the test which is being applied to kelp. It is certainly an iodine test, because many people believe the iodine test is a fair one, and also an easy way of testing the commodity. But we are not tied to that kind of test, and if there is a general demand for an alteration to a potash test instead of iodine we shall consider it favourably. There is a good deal of potash in kelp, from 18 to 20 per cent., I am told, and if people thought it advisable to have a potash instead of an iodine test I do not see why we should not have it, even though it is a more laborious way of testing it.

Deputy McMenamin mentioned carrageen. We propose to purchase 44 tons of carrageen this year for the purpose of putting it on the home market as food. Of course we shall purchase the very best quality but, as against the amount we propose to purchase, the great bulk of the carrageen will be exported, because there is not a sufficient market here for it and there happens to be at present a great market across the Channel. We had also to take control of that industry owing to the increased price being paid for carrageen. People were getting into the industry who never had anything to do with it; people who did not know anything about it, with the result that in many cases they were not handling it properly. In some cases I understand people deliberately damped down the carrageen so as to make it heavy and get more money for it. We are very much concerned about the carrageen industry as a whole, because we believe it is a source of revenue for the Gaeltacht. For that reason we cannot allow anything that people might do because of carelessness, or in an endeavour to make more money, to interfere with the good name that the carrageen of this country carries. That is why we have taken over that industry. For the quantity we will buy we will pay a reasonable price. When I say a reasonable price I mean that we want to put carrageen on the home market at a price that the people can pay, but for the quantity that goes out of the country, which will be 15 times as much as we keep at home, the owners will probably get a higher price than we could give. The higher it is the more pleased we shall be.

Deputy McMenamin also referred to supplies of material. We are not badly off as regards supplies of material. Up to this we have been lucky enough to secure a fair share of supplies. Of course, if the war continues for a long time we must naturally expect that a time will come when supplies will go short. That being so, we have to husband our supplies very carefully, and that fact precludes us from expanding existing industries as we should like. Deputy Brian Brady mentioned the question of supplies of wool and yarn for Donegal. In that branch of the Gaeltacht Services we have confined ourselves to supplying weavers in Donegal with mill-spun yarn. We have nothing to do with weavers in Donegal who make home-spun yarn. People have been trying to persuade us that we should also take control of the home-spun industry, or, as Deputy Dillon mentioned in the House, do something in the way of giving an opportunity to those who make home-spun yarn to use mill-spun yarn on the warps, but seeing that we ourselves have not a great supply of yarn, since we have not succeeded in getting machinery for the mill at Kilcar, I do not see how we could lend ourselves to that suggestion. Neither can we compel mill owners to do so. If there are weavers in Donegal who can weave and make use of home-spun yarn, and weave it into certain material and get a market, I do not see why they should not continue doing so. It is a tradition with them in Donegal and I do not see why we should interfere. There are plenty of sheep on the hills of Donegal and I understand there is a fine price for wool. Any article they turn out there at present will fetch a good price on the market. I do not think I should let this occasion pass without paying a tribute to the people of Donegal for the way in which they have preserved the weaving tradition. But for that we would be in a very bad way to-day. The people of Donegal, and those who represent them, should feel proud of the fact that we have to depend on them, to a great extent, for materials. Donegal certainly is the cradle of the weaving industry.

What about the bonus for workers?

I referred to the bonus for the workers in the Irish statement I made. At the commencement of this year all these workers got a rise in pay. There was a revision of their rates of pay. It was not a flat rate all round, as some got more than others, according to the circumstances of their work. The revision was carried out in accordance with the general scheme of increases for people engaged in work for the State. They were given a rise in pay to meet emergency conditions. Whether an occasion has since arisen for another rise in pay is another matter. I do not think it has. In any case we cannot tie ourselves to that at the present time, because the cost of living will, I dare say, be going up, but these matters can be considered from time to time in the light of the circumstances then obtaining. I do not think any other point was raised in the course of the debate.

Question put and agreed to.
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