The Minister finds himself in the unfortunate position of having to tell a very pitiable story of the social conditions of the time in this country. I do not think any blame can be laid either to him or the officers of his Department in reference to the condition of affairs that exists. He has dealt with a number of matters to which I had intended to draw attention because they ought to exercise and very seriously concern the minds of the public in this country at the present time. We have been used in discussions on the Department of Justice Estimate for many years to deal almost exclusively with political crime. Those crimes, serious as they are even yet, form, I think, the minor part of the Minister's statement to the House. The really serious condition at present in the social life of this country is the appalling and alarming spread of ordinary crime among practically every section of the community and, as the Minister has pointed out—it is a matter that has struck everybody who has been watching the progress of affairs in this country for the last two or three years—the amazing thing is the number of people who are now charged with and convicted of crimes who have never before had a criminal record.
The picture that the Minister has presented of crime being increased practically threefold in a period of four years is one that ought not to be let pass without very serious consideration in this House. I think there is something wrong with the social condition of the country which leads to that state of affairs. The Minister gives as the only excuse or justification that he can find for the condition, the war. I think the war cannot be blamed, at least to any very great extent, for the condition we find in this country at the present time. I am afraid it is really due to a complete lack of respect for the law which is creeping into every section of the community. If that is so, then, I think, we are faced with a very serious position indeed.
Our Circuit Courts, the Central Criminal Court, and our District Courts are at the present time cluttered up with work. Every court, I think, dealing with criminal matters is largely in arrear. The Minister has referred to the greatly increased number of burglaries and larcenies, thefts of bicycles and of overcoats. He did not refer to the still more striking increase in the number of what I may call ordinary murders as distinct from political murders. I think there is nothing more startling in the social life of this country than the murder trials that have been held in Green Street from time to time in the last few years.
As I said, I do not blame the Minister or the officers of his Department or the Guards for the state of affairs that exists, but I think something will have to be done, not merely to punish the crimes that are committed, but to bring about some condition of public opinion whereby crimes can be prevented rather than punished. The ordinary courts of the country, as I have said, are cluttered up with work. Juries are overworked. They are sitting practically continuously. If all the work were to be reached, there would have to be sitting in Dublin, and probably in most centres throughout the country, a criminal court of some kind or another, dealing with big or small crimes, every day throughout the entire year. I do think that is a state of affairs which calls for the most serious consideration of all sections of this House and all sections of the community who desire to see this country in a state of ordered progress. I do not think that the war can be solely blamed for the condition of affairs that exists at the moment.
We have the condition that a large number of our people have gone to England. In a state of actual warfare in England, the great majority of these people, so far as we know, are able not merely to obtain work but to work hard and to live in a state of complete honesty. It is an extraordinary contrast, therefore, that so many of our young people can go abroad and live, in an atmosphere of practically total war, honest, decent, hard-working lives while here at home in a Catholic country, a country with every facility for keeping on the right path, we have the condition of affairs which everybody knows to exist and which the Minister has described in his speech to-day. For some months past I have pondered on this problem from my own point of view, endeavouring to find out what was the cause or whither we were going. I have wondered whether we have not by our Acts in this House created far too many offences. Even a lawyer earning his living by his profession is unable at present to keep up with the vast number of offences that have been created in recent years by statute, by regulation, by order and by rule. I think I said last year, in the course of some debate here, that it was practically impossible for even the most law-abiding citizen at present to go through an ordinary day doing his daily work in a decent way without committing an offence of some kind, probably unknowingly. We are surrounded by a body of rules, regulations, orders, and statutes, creating all sorts of petty offences. I do think that the multiplication of offences that has been created by the legislative machine is, to some degree at least, responsible for the rather strange outlook on the legal position, and is to some extent responsible for the disrespect in which the law is held in this country. It may be that economic conditions at home drive young men, when they are not able to get work, to endeavour to pick up easy money by way of bicycle stealing, coat stealing or any form of petty theft, but large numbers of hitherto decent, respectable citizens have, for whatever reason, found themselves in the dock in Green Street and in the Circuit Courts throughout the country for the first time in their lives.
I cannot think that it is merely the atmosphere of the war, which has touched us so very little in this country, that is responsible for that outbreak of crime. I base that view on the contrast I find between workers in this country and people working and living in an atmosphere of total war in another country who are apparently able to live their lives honestly without resorting to any forms of petty theft.
Apparently the same stock can go to a foreign country and live honest, decent lives under war conditions, but here living under totally different conditions a very large number of our young people are not able to live honest, decent lives. It may be that one of the reasons I have given is responsible—that atmosphere of disrespect for the law. It may be that economic conditions here are such that young people are not able to get employment at home of such a type as will enable them to keep themselves in decency or honesty. It may be that some of the people who are responsible for the growth in our criminal calendar do not want work.
I have said repeatedly that, so far as my experience goes as a politician and in social work, the vast majority of the people of this country are anxious for work. I have come across very few people who shirk work. The real tragedy lies in the inability of people to get work. I think there is a very serious problem facing us here in the conditions that have been described by the Minister. I do not profess to be in a position from the point of view of social science to put any sort of finger upon a definite cause for it, but this is a problem that has been operating in my mind for months past, irrespective of this Vote, and I do think that the war is not responsible for it, that there must be some more deep-seated reason for this disease of bicycle-stealing, coat-stealing and all the other forms of petty theft, burglary and larceny which have manifested themselves in recent years and which are, in my view, a symptom of a very serious disease in the body politic.
I think that the Minister, the Gárda and all of us should bend our minds to the prevention rather than the conviction of crime. The conviction of crime, I do appreciate, is a necessary element in the preservation of the social structure but, so, far as I am concerned, I would prefer to prevent the commission of one crime rather than secure the conviction of a dozen crimes. Perhaps the Minister will be able to tell us from the statistics which he has in his Department how the record of what might be called petty crime compares with that of more serious crime—that sort of crime which is dealt with by the district justices by way of summary jurisdiction. How has that increased and how does the increase compare with greater crime? I have a belief, which I may say is not founded on any accurate statistics, that the Guards are more concerned in the discharge of their duty with the capture of petty criminals rather than the prevention of big crimes.
It is for that reason I should like the Minister to consider what statistics he has as regards the increase in what are called petty crimes, dealt with summarily by the district justices. How many of these have been recorded in this Department? How many prosecutions have been brought and in how many have convictions been obtained? How does the increase in that crime, tried summarily, compare with the extraordinary and amazing increase in the more serious form of crime? It may be that the Minister will be able to set my fears at rest but I do say that I have a firm conviction that more energy is being expended in bringing children to so-called justice for robbing orchards or in prosecuting men for not having lamps on their bicycles at night than in the prevention of crime, as distinct from the conviction of people who commit crime. I certainly want to be reassured on that point, and I should be glad if the Minister were able to give sufficient information to show that the belief I have is not well founded. I think it would be far preferable to let a certain amount of that sort of petty crime pass by, to wink at it if you like, in certain circumstances. We have so many offences of one kind or another on the Statute Book at the moment, that it is impossible to ensure that the law is observed in its entirety. I do, therefore, suggest that, so far as possible, the Minister should take steps to secure that public opinion be fully informed of the gravity of the present situation. I do not think that the public really realise the serious condition which exists from the point of view of ordinary crime. If the public are fully informed in that regard, it may be that a better public opinion will back the Minister in his efforts to prevent and punish crime. My inclination has always been not to secure merely the conviction of criminals—I recognise the necessity for that, of course, not merely from the point of view of punishment but from the point of view of its deterring effect—but to prevent crime if such can be done. My view has always been that the really primary object of the criminal law is not to punish, and not so much to deter from as to prevent crime. I do not regard it as any great credit to the Gárda to be able to say: "We have secured"—a word I detest—"convictions in so many cases." I am sufficiently imbued with the conservative traditions of my own profession to dislike the attitude of prosecutors which is fashioned on that of a certain advocate—to use a joke current in my own profession—who used to go out after prosecuting in criminal cases and say: "We won all those cases." My view is that a prosecutor for the State should act perfectly fairly and impartially, put all the facts before the judge and jury and let the judge and jury discharge their respective responsibilities. I do think that I see in the conduct of prosecutions in this State rather a tendency to "win" cases. I see, or think I see, in the conduct of prosecutions by the Gárda, a tendency to secure—to use a word I dislike—convictions rather than to prevent crime.
My appeal to the Minister is that he, the officials under him and the Gárda, for whom he is responsible, should bend their energies not to securing convictions for petty forms of crime, not to securing convictions against young children for robbing orchards or against adults for not having lamps on their bicycles, but to preventing the commission of crime. Without the co-operation of the public, the efforts of the Minister and the Gárda will be futile. To secure the co-operation of the public, it is necessary to create, since it does not exist at present, a healthy public opinion. The public will have to co-operate in connection with the protection of their own property. They will have to co-operate in connection with the prevention of crime. One of the reasons for the situation which exists at present is the extraordinary number of ridiculous offences we have created by statute and regulation. This has tended to bring about a disrespect for the law. It is not right to pass by this serious problem, simply saying: "There is the problem; it is probably a result of the war; we cannot do anything about it until the war is over." I say that the condition that exists at present is not— certainly not to the extent of the greater part—due to war conditions. It is due to some more deep-seated cause in our own people—lack of moral sense, lack of education or economic conditions. It is due to some extent to the failure of young boys, who have left school, to obtain work. It is due to the cost of living, to the low wages paid for work when it can be obtained, to the tendency to depress wages at a time when prices are soaring, coupled, perhaps, with the notion that there is a lot of money knocking around somewhere. These factors tend to create a state of unrest amongst young people and a desire for easy money. The problem is deep-seated and is social in character. It will have to be tackled unless serious injury is to be done to our country. I do not think it can be dealt with merely by saying that the war is responsible for it. I am not criticising the Minister for that statement. Many people have that view, and it is against that attitude of mind I have spoken this evening. It is easy to say that the war is responsible for the alarming increase in crime amongst all sections and for the attitude of most sections of the community towards crime, but that is merely shirking the serious problem which confronts the Minister and the country.