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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 May 1943

Vol. 89 No. 18

Financial Resolutions. - Electoral (Polling Cards) Bill, 1943—Second Stage.

The Second Stage of this Bill is being taken now by agreement.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. I think the House will be generally agreed that at the forthcoming general election every effort should be made to facilitate the electorate in voting, and that, in order that there should be a full poll, every elector should know where he is to vote. Very considerable changes, however, have been made in the scheme of polling districts and polling places which hitherto was in force and no doubt a great many electors will be affected by these changes. We have tried, of course, to appoint a polling place within easy reach of every elector, but, as I said, unless an elector is made aware of his new polling place, there may be a great deal of confusion. Accordingly, it is proposed in this Bill to require the returning officers in all constituencies to send a card to each voter telling him or her where he or she is to vote, with information as to his or her number.

The Bill is a very short one. Section 1 contains the necessary definitions. Section 2 requires that at a general election held during the emergency, whenever an election in a constituency is contested, the returning officer shall send to each voter, other than a person who is entitled to vote by post, a card setting out the number of the elector in the register of voters and the place at which he is to vote. Postal voters, that is to say, members of the Defence Forces on full pay, will not require this information as they will have already been told that they vote by post. The form of the card will be prescribed by the Minister for Local Government and Public Health, and its form will be such as to make it clear that the card which a person may receive carries no entitlement to vote and is sent to him merely for his information, that it gives no entitlement to vote and is no proof of his identity. Presumably, he may take it with him to the polling booth in order that he may tell the polling officers what his number on the register is and enable them quickly to identify him, but I want to make it quite clear that the form of the card will be such as to leave no doubt in the mind of any person who can read or write that the card is not an identity card and that possession of it does not carry any entitlement to vote.

Under Section 3, the expenses incurred in issuing the card will be the expenses of the returning officer for the purposes of the election. They will be a charge on the Central Fund and will be regulated by scales made by the Minister. It is anticipated that due care will be exercised by all returning officers in the preparation and issue of the cards and by the post office in their delivery, but a guarantee to exclude any possibility of error could not be given. For instance, a mistake might happen in directing a particular card—although I think it is rather unlikely that such a mistake would not be detected in time. If, however, such a mistake should not be detected in time, as a result it might be held that the election was not in accordance with the law. That might lead to the raising of an election petition, and the purpose of Section 4 is to prevent an election petition being put forward as a result of failure to deliver a polling card. I should like to point out, in this connection, that we are not making any change so far as Section 5 of the Electoral Act of 1923 is concerned, and candidates will still be entitled to send polling cards by post, if they wish to do so, but I take it that it will not be necessary to send them so long as the number on the register is correct. The main purpose of the Bill, as I have already said, is to give, in the most precise manner possible, a clear indication to every elector as to where he is to vote.

We have no objection to this Bill, but it seems to us that such a Bill should contain in a Schedule to it a copy of the form which is to be sent out to the electors. It says here that it shall be left to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health to prescribe the form in which the polling cards shall be sent out by the returning officers. I think that that is a departure from the ordinary procedure. I can quite understand that there are certain difficulties due to the present emergency, but I should like to ask the Minister whether he has had the prescribed form drafted and, if so, whether he would not be prepared to put it in a schedule to the Bill when it goes to the Seanad.

I shall consider that.

Very good, because I think it would be more satisfactory to do it in that way, instead of leaving it to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health. If the Minister would give us a description of the form now, and also tell us from what address it would be issued, and under whose name, it would be a help to this House with regard to what is going to happen. We welcome the Minister's statement, that this is not intended to interfere with the ordinary rights of voters, and I do not think that anybody would expect it to do so, but this may cost some money and may be difficult to carry out. So far as Dublin is concerned, at any rate, I think it will cost some money.

At any rate, so far as Dublin is concerned, I understand that the various returning officers are under a statutory obligation to issue these polling notices. In the various districts in Dublin, I understand that the returning officers are under a statutory obligation to inform, by post, the people who live in a particular street or district, and who are entitled to vote, the particular place where they are to vote, and also the table in the polling booth where they are to vote. I suggest that it would be possible to economise in that direction, in paper and so on, if the Minister were to introduce an amendment relieving the returning officers of the obligation which they now have.

This Bill is a welcome departure in so far as it indicates an effort on the part of the Minister to facilitate voters to cast their votes in the forthcoming election, but there are one or two points on which I should like to get some information. For one thing, I should like to know whether the polling cards will be uniform for the whole country, and I think it would be well if the Minister would make available for this House a specimen of the polling card before the Bill reaches its final stage. If I understood the Minister correctly, it seemed to me that members of the Defence Forces would not be accorded the same privileges as ordinary citizens, and I cannot see any reason for such discrimination.

It is not necessary to send these polling cards to members of the Defence Forces on full pay, because they vote by post in any case.

Will the Minister give us an assurance that the granting of this facility will in no way involve a curtailment of the amount of paper that might be available for the use of the various Parties taking part in the forthcoming election? I have heard a suggestion that this Bill may be a forerunner to a severe rationing in paper that might be used by political Parties in the election. I am not saying that that is so, but the suggestion has been made that numbers of individuals and Parties would be placed in a most disadvantageous position, as compared with the Government, so far as the election is concerned, inasmuch as the Government have at their disposal a newspaper with a very wide circulation, whereas other individuals or Parties have no such facilities. Therefore, anything in the nature of a severe rationing of paper would operate to the great disadvantage of individuals or Parties opposing the Government in this election. There is another point which I should like to refer to. I think the Minister ought to avail himself of the earliest opportunity of impressing on the returning officers in Dublin and other cities the necessity of having the polling booths placed as near as possible to the residences of the voters.

The Deputy might be satisfied with that, as the suggestion is outside this measure.

Very good.

Mr. Dockrell rose.

Has Deputy Hannigan concluded?

There is one point that I want to raise—perhaps other speakers had it in mind, but they did not mention it—and that is whether the card that is to be issued by the returning officer is going to be a replica of the voting paper.

When I speak of a replica, I do not mean something that could be substituted, but is it going to contain the names of all the candidates?

No, only the name of the voter, his number on the register and his polling place.

Well, that is quite clear, and my only reason for raising the matter is that some people might say that you might as well go the whole hog and issue a list of the candidates.

I think this is a good Bill, particularly in view of the alterations in polling places that have taken place, which would otherwise cause a good deal of confusion. As a matter of fact, there was a considerable amount of confusion in some areas in the last local election. People went to the polling booths to which they were in the habit of going to vote, and were turned away. In many cases they resented being turned away and did not vote at all. It is desirable, therefore, that this Bill should be put through before the election. While it is a good Bill, as far as it goes, I think it could have gone a little further along the lines indicated by Deputy Dockrell, and that the card should state the names of the candidates and their Party affiliations. It may be difficult in the forthcoming election for all Parties to secure an adequate supply of paper so as to put their viewpoint before the electorate. For that reason a list of the candidates who had been nominated and their Party affiliations would be a guide to the ordinary elector who might otherwise, as a result of the present emergency, be unable to obtain the information which he would require. The present provision of free postal facilities for the distribution of propaganda may be nullified to a great extent by the shortage of paper, but I think to an even greater extent by the shortage of envelopes. I think this Bill should be amended on the lines I have suggested, so that the electorate might be provided with the names of the candidates and their Party affiliations. Some people might be inclined to suggest that the Bill should go further and give a little resumé of the policy of each Party, but I do not think that would be practicable.

I would like to have the opportunity of stating the Deputy's policy.

At any rate, I think I will have plenty of opportunities of doing so.

What about a few photographs?

What about a few advertisements?

The position at any rate is, that it will be difficult to obtain a sufficient supply of envelopes. I cannot see any reason why envelopes should be considered absolutely essential for the distribution of literature. As a matter of fact, it would be much more economical and would constitute a considerable saving of paper if envelopes were dispensed with and if the election literature were simply folded and sent to each elector. Provision for that could be made in this Bill.

My only objection to this Bill is the fact that it is confined to the period of the emergency. I think this is a provision that might very well endure long after the emergency, in ordinary times, that is, that the county registrar would send to each elector the name of the polling booth at which he should vote and his number. I think there is a case for that in ordinary times. In regard to the point that Deputy Cogan has made, I did not know that there was any necessity to have election literature contained in an envelope.

There is not.

It may be a post office regulation.

Mr. Lynch

Certainly, a folder which could be gummed down would save very considerably in the way of paper. If there is any provision against using them, I think something should be done about it.

I think they are regularly used.

There is a limitation of weight.

Of weight only?

Yes, and one uses the envelope in order to get as much literature into it as possible, within the statutory weight I think.

I agree with the Bill but I think the Minister might consider keeping that provision for all time, beyond the period of the emergency.

I agree with Deputy Lynch. I think it ought to be made a permanent provision. It has many advantages even from the candidate's point of view and it is absolutely necessary now with the greatly increased number of booths and the reshuffle of the electoral areas. In Section 2, provision is made that the card should reach the electorate not later than three days before a poll. I wonder would the Minister think of fixing a maximum period so as to reduce the possibility of cards being mislaid and provide a maximum period of eight or ten days and a minimum period of three days.

I do not think it is necessary.

I assume that it will be sent within a reasonable period.

I too agree with the Bill. I think it is very timely, useful and essential and, like Deputy Lynch, I think it could be very usefully continued in times of peace. It would certainly be a great facility to the electors at any time. I deprecate any attempt to extend it in the form suggested by Deputy Cogan. I personally would prefer to see it carried out without any identification whatever with any Party or any candidate. I would prefer that it should appear to be a function of the returning officer, as a service to the voter, indicating to him that his number is such and such and that his polling station is such and such and that the cards should be completely dissociated from any one Party or from any relation with Government. I think it should be a plain card telling the elector where to vote and his number on the register. His duty as an elector ought to be his own and the functions of the Parties ought to be theirs. If we were to go the distance suggested by Deputy Cogan and include a résumé of the policies of the different Parties, I think photographs should accompany them as well. Personally, I believe it is much better to have just a plain card giving just the number and the polling booth. I welcome the Bill. I hope it will be passed without delay and I think it will serve a very useful function towards the electorate.

A point was raised by Deputy Mulcahy in regard to the provision in the Bill that the form should be prescribed by the Minister. That is usual. I think that the only printed form repeated in the Schedule to the Electoral Act is the form of the ballot paper, but other forms necessary for use during the course of the election are as a rule prescribed by the Minister. I would not have any objection at all to accepting an amendment in the Seanad to include the form of the card except that we might find that we might have to depart from it in some minor particular and that might cause some trouble. The form of the card has in fact been drafted. At the top of the card, along the side, there would be the voter's number on the register. Underneath that there would appear that the card was issued by the returning officer. On the back would be a formula something like this: "This card does not entitle the person to whom it is sent to vote. This card is not proof of the identity of the person in whose possession it may be. The number in the register and the polling place of the person to whom the card is addressed are as stated on the face of the card." That would be the general form of the card that we propose to send out.

If it were worded exactly like that, it might be so negative as to persuade him he had not a vote at all.

I do not think so. We want to make sure that people who get the cards will understand their position. Any person who has had experience of elections knows what happens. A person comes in with a card issued by a political Party. There may be a mistake in the address on the card, probably it may have got into wrong hands but the person presenting it may consider that because the card is sent to him he is entitled to vote. We want to let the person know where he is to vote and to know his number on the register, because that facilitates the polling officials, but we do not want him to be under any misapprehension whatever that, simply because a card of this sort falls into his hands, he is entitled to vote and to kick up a row if he is not allowed to vote. It does emphasise that the mere possession of the card does not carry any entitlement to vote.

The cards will be uniform. The idea is that we should have them printed in bulk in Dublin. The Stationery Office will have them printed and the requisite number will be sent to each returning officer. It is not proposed to put on the card any more information than I have mentioned. We could not possibly go to the length of putting down the names and addresses of all the candidates. The names and addresses would not be known until the day of nomination. The political Parties, as a rule, know their candidates in advance, but the returning officer cannot take cognisance of that fact, and, until a candidate is properly nominated, the name cannot be printed on the ballot paper. It will be quite a difficult matter these days to get the ballot papers printed in time.

As to rationing of paper, this card arrangement is being done quite independently of any intention the Minister for Supplies may have with regard to the rationing of paper. I do not know that he has any intention of rationing. I have not heard it suggested that there will be any definite allocation of paper to candidates or to Parties. Candidates will have to make sure that the printer to whom they entrust their printing for the election will have an ample supply of paper. I do not see how the matter can otherwise be dealt with. This card is being sent out solely with the desire of letting everybody who is entitled to vote know, in so far as it can possibly be done, where he is to vote. In that connection I do not think I could accept Deputy Mulcahy's suggestion that we should amend Rule 17, because we should then be simply taking away with one hand what we give with the other. As regards the lists of polling places, these will be issued by the returning officer and candidates require them as well as other people. A considerable number of people are interested in these and I think it would not facilitate the general conduct of the election if we were to dispense with the existing provisions of Rule 17. I would not welcome—in fact, I would resist—an amendment to relieve the returning officer of the obligation that rests upon him to print and publish, for the information of the general public at large, a list of polling places.

Deputy Hannigan referred to certain matters which I would like to touch upon, although they are not strictly within the terms of the Bill. I refer to them in order to clear up any public misapprehension. It must be clearly understood that the responsibility for drawing up a scheme of polling places in any constituency rests with the local authority. In the City of Dublin it is the Dublin Corporation that submits to me a scheme of polling places, and in a rural constituency it is the county council which draws up the scheme and submits it to the Minister for Local Government for ratification.

As a rule, unless a not too detailed examination discloses that there are some glaring anomalies, or unless we receive representations from a substantial number of electors—I think the number is 30—we naturally accept the scheme which has been submitted to us by the local authorities. On the other hand, I think, in relation to Dublin, from some things I have heard and seen, there would seem to be room for changes and, if a substantial number of voters are dissatisfied with the existing scheme of polling places, they can petition me and I think I have power to make changes to meet their point of view. But time is getting very short and the register has soon to be issued. It is in course of printing now. The number of changes it would be possible to make, even to meet what would appear to be a reasonable ground of complaint, may be very few, bearing in mind the limitations in regard to time under which we are operating.

I think the point raised by Deputy Hughes was that we should try to ensure that the cards will not be posted so as to arrive so much before the day of the poll that they would be in danger of being lost. I think we could not put a provision of that sort into the Bill and, anyway, I do not think it is necessary. The general intention is that the returning officer will have all these cards in his hands addressed and ready to be posted on the day of nomination. That means that they will arrive at their destination after the election is definitely on. In any event, it is up to those interested in the election as candidates, or as members of the organisations concerned in the election, to ensure that the voters keep those cards carefully.

It was suggested that this Bill should be made a permanent measure. I am afraid, in present circumstances at any rate, that the Minister for Finance would not agree to make this a permanent charge. The Bill will cost about £20,000 and, although I think the £20.000 would be very well spent, particularly in the present circumstances, when so many necessary changes have been made in the old and accustomed places of polling, it might be a different matter if we were to have this £20,000 imposed on us at every election. However, we shall see how it works out on this occasion. It would be quite simple to bring in an amendment to delete the clause which limits it to the emergency.

I understood the Minister to say that the arranging of the number and location of all polling stations is a matter for the local authorities. I think it is a managerial function.

No, it is not; as a matter of fact, I have just had occasion in that connection to look into the position here in Dublin and I find it is a committee set up by the corporation that arranges the polling places.

The manager might take the council into his confidence in arranging the scheme.

My understanding of the position was that this was a purely managerial function. I have been told that, in relation to Keogh Square polling area, some electors will have to travel some miles to vote.

If the Deputy is aware of any such situation, I should be glad to have particulars of it. A committee of Dublin Corporation was set up in January, 1942, which—in consultation, I suppose, with the City Manager—drew up the existing scheme of polling places.

Was that arrangement of polling places designed for the emergency?

The scheme has been approved. A few changes were made in it following the municipal elections.

All the councils acted similarly.

Considerable changes were introduced in the rural areas. If Deputy Hannigan can get 30 electors to petition me in relation to the polling arrangements in the area to which he referred, I shall have the matter looked into. In our preparations for this election, we have endeavoured to facilitate the voter so far as possible. A general instruction went out to all concerned with the preparation of these schemes that, so far as possible, they should arrange that no voter should have to walk a greater distance than one-and-a-half miles to a polling booth. It has not been possible in all cases to observe that instruction strictly. However, a great change has been effected in the previous position, and that change is reflected in the fact that the number of polling places throughout the country has been increased by almost 40 per cent.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take the remaining Stages of the Bill now.
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