I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. Article 27 of the Constitution provides that in certain circumstances a joint petition may be presented by members of both Houses of the Oireachtas to the President asking him not to promulgate a law until it has been submitted to the people. That Article of the Constitution provides that the signatures to such a petition shall be verified in the manner prescribed by law. The purpose of this Bill is to provide for the verification of signatures to a petition. The sections are self-explanatory. Section 1, provides for the verification by the Clerk of the House or, failing him, in the case of a Deputy who is absent in the country or unable to attend here, by a Justice of the District Court, a Commissioner of Oaths or an officer of the Gárda Síochana not below the rank of Superintendent. Section 2 deals similarly with verification of signatures of members of the Seanad. Section 3 provides that whenever a petition is presented to the President it shall be lawful for the President to accept the verification of a signature in accordance with Sections 1 and 2 of the Bill, whichever applies, as being sufficient. Section 4 makes it an offence to forge a signature or to affix a signature which purports to be that of a person other than the person actually signing the petition.
Committee on Finance. - Constitution (Verification of Petition) Bill, 1944—Second and Subsequent Stages.
This is a machinery measure. Is the Minister satisfied that anything is being verified? A signature is to be verified but it is not stated that the signature has to be made before the person verifying it.
First of all a person must be a member of either House.
A signature made now might mean a signature made in 1946 and it would not be for the purpose intended.
This section simply verifies that it is a signature.
That is all.
It does not say why the Minister signs.
If the Minister happened to be a member of the Dáil or Seanad, and he must be one or the other, to that extent the signature would be the Minister's signature. It is assumed that the signature of the Minister will not be appended to a petition to the President asking him to promulgate a law for which the Minister is collectively responsible.
The signature might be that of John X or Patrick X in 1943, but in 1946, a petition might be presented and the person verifying might declare that the signature was that of John X. It does not say that it was the signature that was made before the person verifying.
I am really being asked to deal with the problem on a fantastic basis. The signature will be to the petition.
It does not say that.
This is entitled "An Act to prescribe the manner in which signatures to a petition presented to the President under Article 27 of the Constitution shall be verified." Section 1 reads: "Every signature of a member of Dáil Eireann to a petition presented to the President..." Quite obviously the signature must be appended to the petition. All the clerk or other verifying personages are asked to do is to verify that in fact the signature affixed to the petition is that of the member of Dáil Eireann or of Seanad Eireann whose signature it purports to be.