As Deputies are aware of the fact that if general policy is to be discussed on an Estimate, it is necessary, in accordance with Standing Order 108, to move: "To refer back". I have now received motions to refer back Estimate No. 29 —one from Deputy Hughes and another from Deputy Halliden. Owing to the fact that Deputies did not know what Estimate would be on to-day, and that they desire to discuss on this Estimate certain motions on the list of Private Deputies' business, motions dealing with agriculture, I am accepting these notices of motion to refer back. I desire to be quite clear as to what motions are to be discussed on this Estimate.
Committee on Finance. - Business of Dáil.
Nos. 14 and 15.
What about No. 12? Deputy Cogan is not present. I do not wish to damnify him. The understanding is that the policies outlined in motions Nos. 14 and 15 will be debated on this Estimate and, when the Estimate has been disposed of, those motions will be put, without further discussion. Is that agreed to?
Must we confine ourselves to the motions?
Not at all, the whole Estimate is open for discussion.
Is No. 12 the motion dealing with the price of milk?
Yes, but have we his consent to discuss it now and dispose of it?
It is to be discussed on the Estimate.
The proposal is that these motions be put without further discussion when the Estimate has been discussed and disposed of, and they will then disappear from the Order Paper.
I suppose that will be all right.
I wanted to have a definite understanding.
I hope that this will not be taken as a precedent for future years, as the whole thing is highly undesirable. In the first place, it is undesirable that, in the present circumstances, the most important Estimate on the Order Paper should be put before the House without any prior notice, particularly as far as Deputies from the country are concerned. Also, two important matters on the Order Paper for some time are now to be taken here. I merely make that protest now, so that next year whoever is here as Minister will not be able to say that there is a precedent for this, and that the Estimates will be used to cloak the motions or the motions used to cloak the Estimates.
If the Deputies in whose names the motions are tabled did not agree to this course, the Chair would not have accepted them.
I am not in the slightest reflecting on the Chair.
I know that.
It is very undesirable procedure, to my mind, that the most important Estimate of the whole lot, in present circumstances, should be taken now. There are many Deputies who have spoken to me, who have come up from the country, and who have collected a large amount of material which they wished to use on this Estimate and which they themselves thought would be useful. They have not got it at their disposal now, as they got no notice. I wish to make that protest, lest this may be used as a precedent.
I had occasion last week, on behalf of this Party, to ask the Government to accommodate Parliament in general and the Opposition Parties in particular, by giving some notice of business they intended putting before the House. I understood from the Deputy Leader of the Government that consideration would be given to that matter. This morning we hear that the most important Estimate, in present circumstances, that could come before the Dáil was to be taken to-day. That is the first notification which anybody got of that. It was assumed that the Drainage Bill would be the business before the House today-and properly so-yet here we have an Estimate for £1,250,000, dealing with the greatest industry in the country, without any notice.
I had a ring this afternoon from a Deputy in Connacht who, ever since he came into this House, has never failed to speak on this particular Estimate, and his views have always been of a certain amount of value. He was protesting against its being taken in this hide-and-seek manner. I do not think that this course is fair to the House, but that is not a matter for the Chair.
It all depends on what Deputies would consider reasonable notice. I notified the Leaders of the Opposition yesterday morning that this Estimates was to be taken this evening and, seeing that there are three Private Members' Motions on agricultural matters to be taken later, I think it would be as well to bring them in under the discussion on the main Estimate for Agriculture. If they were left on the Order Paper, taking them in the order of priority, they could not be discussed before next July. These motions dealing with the price of milk, would, in my opinion have to be discussed right away if they were to be of any value, as the 1st April is the latest date for making a decision on that.
The motions could only be taken in this manner by agreement. I am referring to the taking of the most important Estimate of the whole year, without adequate notice to Opposition Parties. The Parliamentary Secretary may think that it is sufficient to give notice the day before. We have not the facilities of Government to notify Deputies away through the country that this was being taken to-day. The request made was that, on the last day of a Dáil week, we would get some idea of the business for the following week. That is a reasonable request. Parliaments dealing with a quarter of the world are able to give a month's notice. We are dealing, in comparison, only with a few acres.
It is quite impossible for an ordinary Deputy to know what the business is. He accidentally hears about it by reading, perhaps in the newspaper, what might be taken. I do not think it is the intention of Parliament that Deputies coming up from the country might buy a newspaper and see that such-and-such business might be taken. It is all very well to say that the Leaders of Opposition Parties are communicated with as to what business may be taken. That means that another private branch exchange is needed to inform the Deputies in the country.
I think we should be in a position, even now while in the House, to know what is going to happen next week, but we do not know. If we did, there is a lot of useful material which we could gather while in Dublin and which we could use for the particular debate in question the following week. As long as I have been here, I have never known from one day to another what would be discussed. I cannot see what the difficulty is. I know that the business is arranged between the Parties, but how are the Deputies individually to know? I have had to walk in, day after day, without having the foggiest notion of the discussion.
With regard to Deputy O'Higgins' point, that Deputies should know what is to be discussed, Deputy Cogan has not been here to-day and we do not know if he is in Dublin or not; Deputy Donnellan is not here and we do not know where Deputy Halliden is. Two important motions are to be discussed and the Government is aware, from the type of motions that have been put down, that they are of great importance. The Government should have given due notification last Wednesday, when the Dáil was adjourning, as to when these two motions would be taken.
In connection with the Estimate for the Department of Agriculture, if there are Deputies in the House who are not prepared to discuss it to-day, there is no reason why we should not switch over to another Estimate.
It is Deputies who are not in the House that we are thinking of.
If they are not in the House, I cannot help them.
But they would be here if they knew that Agriculture was to be discussed.
Let the business proceed. We will not mind for this time.
I suggest that some other Estimate be taken and that this Estimate be left over until to-morrow evening some time, if there is still a desire to keep it open for others to speak.
We can easily keep going until to-morrow.
It is more a general question about this habit of taking business in this way, rather than a particular complaint about the business for to-day.
I think that arose through the unforeseen circumstances that the Drainage Bill was not ready for the Committee Stage. As a matter of fact, I got very little notice myself that my Estimate was coming on to-day. If the Drainage Bill had been ready everything would have gone on all right.
Carry on, then. You are in as bad a position as ourselves.
The reason why the Drainage Bill was not ready for the Committee Stage was that all the amendments were not in.
We will see how we will get on for a few hours anyway.