Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Mar 1944

Vol. 93 No. 6

Local Authorities (Education Scholarships) Bill, 1944—Report and Final Stages.

Minister for Education (Mr. Derrig)

I move amendment No. 1:—

In page 2, Section 2 (1), line 44, to delete the words "it so thinks" and substitute the words "they so think".

This amendment is consequential on amendment No. 3 which I put down in response to a request by Deputy Doyle and others as regards the reservation of functions in connection with scholarships of county councils. The amendment, merely from the drafting point of view, adopts the plural instead of the singular form, which would be more appropriate if the manager were in fact exercising the function.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Derrig

I move amendment No. 2:—

In page 2, before Section 2 (2), to insert a new sub-section as follows:—

(2) Notwithstanding sub-section (1) of this section, the Minister may by Order specify a date as the latest date on which the corporation of a county borough or the council of a county may submit to him under this section a scheme relating to a particular local financial year, and thereupon it shall not be lawful for such corporation or council to submit such scheme after that date.

This is an amendment empowering the Minister to fix a date, should he consider it necessary, as the latest date upon which a corporation or council may submit a scholarships scheme. Up to the present most councils have given us reasonable time for the consideration of their schemes. I explained to the House on the last stage of this Bill that time is of the greatest importance, as consultations had to be over in good time to enable the budgetary arrangements to be made when the annual estimates of councils are under consideration. Although we generally manage to get matters through before that, it is possible that difficulties might arise and, if such difficulties became numerous, or if we had a number of cases of councils failing to send in their schemes in time, it might become necessary to make some such regulation as the one envisaged in the amendment. At present I do not think it will be really necessary, but no harm is done in giving the Minister power to fix the date should he consider it necessary. I should like to say to those interested in this matter as members of councils, that normally October 1st should be taken as the date on which scholarship schemes ought to be in the hands of the Department.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Derrig

I move amendment No. 3:—

To add at the end of Section 2 a new sub-section as follows:—

(6) The preparation and submission under sub-section (1) of this section of a scheme and the making under sub-section (3) of this section of a determination shall be reserved functions both in the case of the corporation of a county borough and in the case of the council of a county.

This amendment makes it clear that the preparation and submission of scholarship schemes shall be reserved functions, both in the case of corporations and county councils. It makes the position quite clear and will be in consonance with Section 7, which we had already in the Bill, giving councils power to decide in regard to expenditure on scholarships, so that not alone expenditure but the submission of schemes will be reserved functions of the councils.

Mr. P.S. Doyle

I appreciate the manner in which the Minister met the representations made to him in connection with this Bill.

Mr. M. O'Sullivan

I should like to say that it is an excellent advance in view of the provisions of the County Management Act.

Mr. Derrig

Now that they have these functions, I hope the councils will show their interest by improving, where possible, schemes which they will prepare.

Mr. M. O'Sullivan

You have no complaint in Dublin.

Mr. Derrig

None whatever.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Derrig

I move amendment No. 4:—

In page 3, Section 4, line 50, to delete the word "ordinarily" and substitute the words "bona fide”.

It is considered that the words "bona fide” will give a better indication than “ordinarily”, which is at present the law in regard to residence, of the intention that all genuine residents specified in the functional area of the regulating authority shall, if other conditions are complied with, be eligible for the scholarship schemes. I should point out that hitherto councils in certain cases have been in the habit of introducing a qualifying period of residence of one, two or three years. It will not be valid to do this in future, and the point that will arise is whether the parents are ordinarily resident: that is to say, whether we use the word “ordinarily” or “bona fide”, I am advised that the legal meaning is the same; that applicants should be in the ordinary way genuinely residing in the area. If there is a feeling that there should be a limit of time, may I point out that there are cases of Civic Guards, civil servants, employees of transport companies or of insurance companies who, in the course of their official work, have to be transferred from one area to another. If it were provided that a period of residence was to become necessary, that might very well mean that the children of such persons, who had genuinely to change their residences in the ordinary course of business, would be debarred from going forward as candidates for scholarships in any area. I think that would be iniquitous. If there is any doubt the matter can be gone into. The final decision rests with the Minister under Section 9 of the Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

Question:—"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Sir J. Esmonde

I am sure the Minister is aware of the interpretation of the words "ordinarily resident" by the courts in connection with income-tax law. There has been an interpretation in numerous cases, and it was very strictly in favour of the persons who might, from the public point of view, appear to be those mentioned by the Minister.

Mr. Derrig

I am glad to have that pointed out. If necessary, the matter can be gone into further in the other House.

Mr. M.E. Dockrell

Will the Minister clear up the position where a boy comes up to Dublin to stay with relatives and then gains a scholarship? In that case will the residence be his own home or that of the relatives with whom he is living in Dublin?

Mr. Derrig

Unless there are special circumstances it would not be intended that a child, whose parents are resident in a particular area, and who is domiciled in fact with relatives or a guardian in another area, should be eligible to compete for scholarships in the latter area. That is where he has a guardian or relative?

Mr. M. Dockrell

It is not uncommon for boys to be sent to school in Dublin. I am not against that. A boy is often sent up by his parents to stay with an uncle or an aunt in Dublin in the hope that he will benefit by the better scholarship schemes which exist in the capital city. That is a type of case that should be cleared up and it should be recognised that that position exists.

Question put and agreed to.