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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Apr 1944

Vol. 93 No. 7

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Means Test for Old Age Pensions.

asked the Minister for Finance if he is aware that various public bodies and organisations have urged the abolition of the means test as applied to the Old Age Pensions Scheme, because of the injustice and hardship it imposes on the old and infirm; and if he has under consideration its abolition in view of the fact that the additional expenditure involved would be largely covered by a saving in the cost of investigating claims.

I am aware that the abolition of the means test as applied to the Old Age Pensions Scheme has been urged by certain public bodies and organisations, but I do not accept the Deputy's suggestion that the imposition of this test imposes either injustice or hardship on the old and infirm. I have, however, recognised the hardships which the difficulties of the emergency entail for recipients of pensions and have, as the Deputy is aware, adopted special measures to alleviate these hardships. The Deputy is under a misapprehension in assuming that the additional expenditure involved would be largely covered by a saving in the cost of investigating claims. It has, in fact, been estimated that the saving realised would be in the neighbourhood of £40,000 as against an increased expenditure of £550,000.

Is the Minister aware that as the means of some claimants or pensioners are calculated under the Old Age Pensions Act they are debarred from getting 10/- weekly if their incomes exceed £15 12s. 6d., and that it also deprives old people of pensions if they have incomes of £39 5s. per annum? Is the Minister aware that many old people have been debarred from receiving pensions because some of them act as custodians of holdings belonging to children who have emigrated to England or to America? I also feel that it is very unfair that savings which the children of good parents send home are taken into account and that as a result the parents are deprived of pensions in their old age. I feel that the Minister is not aware that there seems to be a certain amount of misunderstanding in some areas——

The Deputy is now discussing administration and is making a speech.

I am asking the Minister if he is aware of a certain misunderstanding——

The Deputy is making a speech in an interrogative form.

Is the Minister aware that there is a misunderstanding in rural and in very poor areas between the people and the pension officers who make investigations?

The Deputy is outside the question.

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