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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Apr 1944

Vol. 93 No. 10

Committee on Finance. - Vote 62—Wireless Broadcasting.

I move:—

That a sum, not exceeding £53,793 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1945, for Salaries and other Expenses in connection with Wireless Broadcasting (No. 45 of 1926), including Public Concerts.

The Estimate for the broadcasting service for the current financial year amounts to £80,693, a net increase of £1,813 on the provision for last year. The main increase is under sub-head A which is up by £2,128. This is due to increased bonus payments; increments to staff; increases of pay to members of the orchestra at the end of their first year's service; and provision for additional staff for the news service, etc. There is an increase of £135 under sub-head D because of the increasing number of outside broadcasts, and £505 in the case of sub-head E due to the increased charges for electricity. The normal provision of £190 for subscription to international and other conferences and conventions has been included this year, instead of the token provision of £10 made last year. As against these increases, the amount required under sub-head F is down by £1,200, mainly because of the difficulty in securing replacement stores. The variations under other sub-heads are of a minor nature.

Revenue from wireless licences for the financial year ended 31st March last amounted to approximately £109,000 and for advertisements, to approximately £3,500, a total of £112,500. This represents an increase of about £3,600 on the revenue for the previous year, due mainly to a rise in the number of licences held by listeners. When the Estimate was being prepared, revenue for the current year was estimated at £106,750, and expenditure, including expenditure by other Departments on services rendered to broadcasting, at £110,078. This would have shown a small estimated deficit of £3,328. Recently, however, licences have been increasing, and it is now considered probable that revenue during the current year will at least equal expenditure.

The total number of licences current on 31st ultimo was 172,042, which represents an increase of 4,371 on the figure for the corresponding date in 1943. Having regard to the difficulties met with by listeners in various parts of the country in obtaining batteries, etc., and to the small supply of new wireless sets available, I think this increase in the number of licence holders is particularly satisfactory. It is clear evidence of the popularity of the radio that, although many thousands of listeners in rural areas can use their sets only in a very restricted way because of the battery shortage, they do not hesitate to retain the sets and take out licences for this limited use.

The Broadcasting Advisory Committee provided for by the Wireless Telegraphy Act, 1926, has recently been reconstituted, and I have been fortunate in securing for the committee persons interested in national culture, music, drama, literature, the Irish language, etc. The committee's functions are to advise and assist in the conduct of the broadcasting stations and the selection and control of the broadcast matter distributed from the stations. I have no doubt that the committee will provide constructive criticism and useful suggestions as to the contents of programmes and their presentation. The committee held its first meeting on 22nd February last and has held two meetings since.

When introducing the Estimate for 1943-44, I referred to the increase in the numbers of the station orchestra from 28 to 40, and to the probability that some time might elapse before the full advantage of the increase would be felt. In the short interval since, the work done by the orchestra has proved the wisdom of the increase in its strength. It has been possible to give adequate studio performances of many works which formerly would have had to be performed with some element of compromise between the instrumentation laid down by the composer and that then at our disposal. The engagement of members of the orchestra for a greater number of hours per week, which was part of the reorganisation made possible by the additional funds provided last year, has enabled us to present more frequent orchestral performances, including two lunchtime concerts weekly.

The public symphony concerts have been continued through the winter and spring season with what is, I think, agreed to have been a greater success than ever. The transfer of the concerts from the Mansion House to the Capitol Theatre, and the holding of the concerts on Sunday afternoons instead of on Thursday evenings, as in former seasons, has undoubtedly enabled a much larger public to attend and to encourage us by their constant support in the belief that there is a growing public enthusiasm for the creation and production of music, which is bound to win esteem for our cultural activities. I should like to pay a tribute to the excellent work of the orchestra and its conductor whose splendid performances have made these public concerts so successful.

The policy of encouraging musical organisations in places outside Dublin to organise series of concerts of good music continues. Radio Eireann is most anxious to help local committees of persons interested in music to provide first-class concerts in their areas and has co-operated with committees in many provincial towns. Where a committee is willing to organise such a concert and to engage the best artistes available Radio Eireann relays portion of the concert at a specially high fee. This is one of the ways in which we are endeavouring to cultivate knowledge and appreciation of the best in music throughout the country. It will, however, be appreciated that our efforts in this connection will be hampered, for a time at least, by transport difficulties.

With the intention of encouraging that important part of the musical activity of the country, unison singing, many programmes during the year were arranged with various community singing groups. The programmes proved to be very popular, and listeners were reminded of many fine old songs that had been forgotten in recent times. Good performances were given by, among others, Christian Brothers' schools in Limerick and in Dublin, by various claisceadal societies, and last but not least, the Army, which has now established four excellent choirs.

Money was made available last year for the preparation of new arrangements of traditional Irish airs, etc. Hitherto there has been great difficulty in preparing programmes of Irish music owing to the dearth of original compositions or arrangements of traditional music. Many arrangements have been commissioned already and further arrangements will be commissioned as opportunity offers, but this work will naturally be slow because of the need for maintaining a high standard. I hope that later on the Department of Education will be able to have the arrangements which are commissioned for broadcasting published and so made available for general use.

As regards the Irish language, our policy continues to be to provide in Irish programmes as interesting and as well produced as the programmes in English. But the learners and those whose Irish has grown somewhat rusty from lack of use, are not neglected, special features including short stories in simple Irish being provided for them. Apart from the provision of such programmes everything possible is being done to stimulate interest in the use of the language. Many special talks in Irish and English are broadcast by leaders of the language movement, and short pieces from the writings or speeches of great national leaders on the importance of the language are broadcast at frequent intervals.

In connection with the "Grow more Food" campaign there is the closest co-operation between the Department of Agriculture and Radio Eireann. Every week for many months past at least one talk or discussion for farmers has been broadcast. These were prepared by experts of the Department of Agriculture or by farmers with special qualifications. The scripts deal with aspects of farming of special interest at the particular time or of special concern to particular regions of the country. In all speech features, as in all musical features, of the programmes, no effort has been spared to make the best use of the best talent available to the Director of Broadcasting. This is equally true of the programme in Irish and in English. Plays, talks and discussions by the best companies of actors and the best speakers continue to be broadcast regularly, and those features which have appealed in the past to a very large public maintain their interest.

"Question Time", now in its sixth year, continues to maintain its great popularity. It has now become a concert as well as a broadcast feature, practically all the programmes in recent years being relayed from provincial centres. The demand from all over the country is so great that we can only accede to about half the applications now being received. "Information Please", a programme in which our listeners submit questions with a view to puzzling our panel of experts, has now become almost as popular as Question Time.

"Radio Digest", a "hold-all" which made its appearance some 18 months ago, has now firmly established itself. As its name implies, it is the kind of feature in which almost anything of interest can be effectively included, and one of its special features is the weekly commemoration of great men and women, Irish and foreign, as suitable occasions occur. An Treimhseachan Teann, which is the counterpart in Irish of the digest, is in every way as successful as the digest and among Irish speakers is comparatively as popular.

In the field of drama, the Abbey and Longford Players again presented a number of plays on Sunday evenings and, as usual, these were eagerly looked forward to. In plays presented and produced directly by the station officers, the works of all our representative dramatists were included. Dramatisations of the lives of national figures included:— Michael O'Clery, one of the Four Masters; the Currans of Rathfarnham, Edward Bunting, the man who saved Ireland's music, etc.

I have on many occasions in the past appealed for reasonable and constructive criticism of the broadcasting service and of the programmes. I am happy to be able to say that there has been a noticeable falling off in the amount of purely destructive criticism and that the volume of helpful letters received by the Director has shown a steady increase. While it is recognised that the views contained in letters received by the Director are not necessarily representative of the views of listeners as a whole they are of considerable assistance in measuring the degree of public interest in particular programmes, and frequently contain suggestions useful to programme staffs.

The general activities of Radio Éireann were very fully discussed on the occasion of the introduction of the Estimate for 1943-44 some five months ago. I am, therefore, not now dealing in any detail with programme features, which are matters that cannot be adequately examined here. Criticisms of details in programmes are more likely to produce useful results if made direct to the station, where they are always welcomed by the Director. I would ask Deputies, so far as possible, to discuss on this Estimate mainly the broad principles which guide the direction of broadcasting and which constitute really the proper subject matter for public discussion. The Broadcasting Annual Report, containing general information regarding the activities of the service, will shortly be available for Deputies.

I just want to make two remarks on this Estimate. I notice that sub-head (e)—Light and Power—which, by the way, I cannot find under Vote 62—is up by £500. Does that mean that the broadcasting service is a law unto itself and not subject to the reductions or restrictions that have been imposed on light and power throughout the country? The Minister, no doubt, will answer that, because I would be very sorry to think that, even important as broadcasting is, it should be above the law and that the ordinary restrictions which have been imposed on light and power, generally, are not to apply to the broadcasting service.

The other matter to which I should like to draw the Minister's attention— and I am not now going to speak about broadcasting—is the question of wireless telephoning. It seems to me, a Leas-Chinn Comhairle, that you are starting to take notice of what I am saying, and possibly you might think that this is a matter that might have been raised under the Vote for Posts and Telegraphs. I should like to point out, however, that as this Vote starts on wireless broadcasting and finishes up on the telephone service, it would be necessary to initiate this matter under the heading of wireless broadcasting. I do not know how far the Minister has considered the question of whether wireless telephony is going to take the place, or at any rate to come in as a brother or sister, of the telephone services. I saw in the paper the other day that it was going to be possible very shortly in England for passengers travelling on a train to ring up their own houses at home. I do not know how far the Minister has considered that, or whether he considers that this country is going to go in for wireless telephony at all, but I certainly would like to suggest to the Minister that this is a matter that ought to be very seriously considered as one of the coming things.

The Minister, no doubt, will say that telephones are in a very high state of development, and so they are; but, apparently, this thing has come in, over and above them. Is the Minister going to suggest that telephony or wireless could only exist in conjunction with stations in Dublin, or is he going to zone the whole country and link that up with the rest of the telephone system? I hope the Minister has considered that because there is no doubt that very more substantial premises would be required in some of the country districts. Possibly, when the present emergency is over, he will tell us that he could not consider this question until he had built premises suitable for this apparatus. I do not know to what extent the Government suffer from a sort of paralysis in regard to the post-war period and post-war planning. There seems to be a hush-hush policy on everything. I do not know why we could not at least commence to plan for a development such as this because there is no doubt that the erection of the premises will have to precede the installation of the apparatus. I hope the Minister, in replying, will deal with these questions. I should like to remind him that my reason for mentioning the matter is that he did not reply to the point I raised on the Post Office Vote.

Again I want to ask the Minister if anything can be done to prevent interruption in wireless reception in the south and south-west of the country. It is absolutely impossible to hear broadcasts from Radio Éireann after about 7 o'clock, night after night in Wexford town. I have been speaking to my colleague, Deputy Murphy, who represents West Cork, and he says the same conditions prevail there. I observe that, under sub-head G, a certain sum is allocated for international and other conferences and conventions. I do not know to what extent these can be attended during the war period, but one would think that they would provide media to secure that other stations would respect the Irish station and that something should be done in that direction. I should like the Minister to let us know what efforts he has made to secure that the people will get value for the 12/6 which they have to pay for a wireless licence each year. I want to compliment the station on cutting down during the lunch hour the jazzing and crooning music that we have had for years and on the fact that we are now getting some decent music. But what is the use of cutting that out if, at night, we have to switch on to a British station from which we get the same kind of music that our officials here have cut out of our programme? I believe that if proper attention were given to the matter something could be done to remedy it.

I also want to refer briefly to the question of the broadcasting of Irish news. I am wondering whether, when this war is over, the news service will shut down altogether. Night after night, we hear nothing in the news broadcast but a rehash of what we got in the British news broadcast some time before—what is being done on the Eastern Front, at the Anzio beachhead, and at different war centres all over the world. There is not one blessed word about Irish news. Surely we could be told something more of events at home. Time after time things are happening in this country about which people would like to hear and we do not hear one word about them from Radio Éireann. When we do get Irish news it is put at the end of the British news. We have to listen to the same thing over again that we heard in British broadcasts before we hear a word of Irish news.

The Deputy should not listen to the British news then.

What can we do? As a matter of fact, the news is not read sometimes in the order in which the headings are called out and if we did not listen to the British news we might miss the Irish news altogether. Sometimes very important announcements are made by Ministers—even Ministers sometimes make important announcements—which the public would like to hear. As I have said, when the war is over we may decide to close down the news service altogether.

For a number of years complaints were made that Deputies other than Ministers did not get a fair share of the news broadcast. I am glad to say there has been a big improvement in that connection and that in broadcast reports of Dáil debates everybody gets his share. I want, however, to refer to the matter of reports of questions answered here. Invariably we hear on the radio that the Taoiseach in answer to a question said so-and-so, and the answer of the Taoiseach gets about ten minutes. Similarly we are told that Mr. Lemass or Mr. Little in answer to a question said so-and-so. Surely it is not too much to ask that the report should take the form: "Mr. Lemass, in answer to Deputy Esmonde or Deputy Cosgrave, said so-and-so"? Surely the person asking the question should get the credit of asking it? It certainly does not look well to have matters reported in that way and I would ask the Minister to secure in future that the person who asks the question should get the credit of asking it, no matter to what Party he belongs. I should like to give credit to the station for endeavouring to secure that every Party in the country gets a fair share of broadcasting. I know that is the policy of the present Director and I am sure he feels the better for it. I would ask the Minister again to try to do something to ensure that people who pay for reception from Radio Éireann will get it.

I am sorry that Finance has not permitted some additional allocation for radio programmes this year. Generally speaking, I feel now as I have always felt in connection with wireless broadcasting, that this is a service of great importance not only to our people within the nation but also to our countrymen and women abroad. An immense amount of good can be done by wireless broadcasting within the country. It can raise the cultural standard of our people and bring entertainment and enjoyment into homes in the most remote parts of the country. I think that the importance of broadcasting has been brought home to us very forcibly in connection with recent events when we wanted to put clearly to the world our point of view, when it was all-important that the world should know our point of view and we had no way of reaching the world. We have no short-wave station at present or, at least, we have a short-wave station but it is inoperative. For years I have been attacking the parsimony of this Estimate. Every year since I came into the Dáil I stressed the importance of broadcasting. Here and elsewhere, I have stressed the importance of the short-wave station, and to-day we could not estimate the value of a short-wave station in terms of money. However, what was done, cannot be undone now in the emergency.

The Department of Finance should realise the immense importance of world broadcasting. I have great sympathy with the Minister and with the Director of Radio Éireann. Successive directors have done much to give this country the best in music and art. They cannot succeed. One cannot expect the huckster with no capital to dress a window in the same way as a high-class confectioner. Are we to be told that what we ask will come next year and then the year after and then the year after that? Am I to stand up to beg the miserable pittances which are handed out to writers, actors and musicians by Radio Éireann? These have improved, but they are still far from what they should be. We talk long and loudly of art, culture and civilisation, but we allow our artists and musicians, often-times, to live on the verge of starvation. People do not realise how difficult it is for actors and writers to live in Ireland. They do not realise that on the stage in this country—in the Abbey Theatre—there are professional actors working for as little as £1 a week. Some of the best of the younger actors and actresses have as little as £3 a week under contract. In that connection, I appeal to the Minister to see that, so far as possible, Radio Éireann employs only professional actors, professional writers and professional musicians. I do not say that people who are good artists should be excluded but, so far as possible, the Minister should endeavour to give as much work as possible to those who are really badly off and who have but a very precarious livelihood.

In other years, I requested the formation of a repertory company by Radio Éireann—that that company should be permanent, with actors and actresses under contract. I understand that that is not considered feasible. Again, I suppose it is a question of finance. What I appeal to the Minister now to do is to form a panel of actors and actresses and draw from them exclusively the great talent that is available. While the Minister may not be prepared to appoint a permanent producer in Irish and a permanent producer in English, if he would see that play-production would be in the hands of a competent professional producer, who would not necessarily be attached to the station but who would have the production of every one of these plays, it would be a very desirable step. You would then have a professional producer and a panel of professional actors and actresses who would be able to rehearse the plays. At present plays suffer from insufficient rehearsal because rehearsals are too often held in the evening instead of in the morning or afternoon and the producers engaged are what might be called part-time professionals. They have another job and they supplement their income by doing this work at the station. If we could have full-time producers, actors and actresses, not necessarily under contract, play-production would be much better.

The standard of production has much improved in recent years. I was one of those who attacked it and I candidly admit the improvement which has taken place. I think that I referred to the station on one occasion as "an amateur concert hall". I listen very regularly, unlike some people who praise Radio Eireann, and I say that we have attained a very good standard. But we are very mediocre in spots. I do not know how some of the items get into the programme. If the Minister insists upon employing professional people who know the job, there will be no mediocrity. I make that plea for the professional actor and the professional writer. In connection with the orchestra, I made the point last year that only £5 was allowed for a man member and £4 for a lady member, which I considered insufficient. The Minister corrected me and said the figures were £6 and £5. I make him a present of that. He also stated that the members of the orchestra were really only part-time workers and could take up other work in their off hours. That is not so. The way in which their hours are arranged at the station makes it impossible for them to take up part-time work. I ask the Minister to look into the conditions of the contract between the musicians and Radio Eireann and to try to get the Finance Department to increase the basic salary. I also ask him to arrange their schedule so that they can take up outside work. There is another point in connection with that. I do not know whether it has been cleared up or not. The musicians complain that they will not, in future, be in a position to play in outside operas. There is something in the contract which prevents them from doing so. These, however, are matters which might be more suitably discussed with the Minister or Director than debated in the House.

I am a writer myself. I am a member of the Writers, Actors, Artists and Musicians' Association. I ask the Minister to co-operate as closely as possible with that association. Many of the difficulties could be hammered out if there was closer co-operation between the station, the Minister and our association. We shall not be unreasonable, but I may tell the Minister and all whom it concerns that W.A.A.M.A. intends to press its demands and that we shall not accept responsibility either here or elsewhere for what we still regard as the miserable fees and payments made by our radio station.

I should like to join with Deputy Corish in drawing attention to the condition of reception in Wexford and adjoining districts. I am grateful to the Minister for sending down special investigators when the matter was raised here before. He tried to ascertain the source of the trouble. I have regretfully come to the conclusion that the source of the trouble is outside the control of the Minister and I do not think that anything further can be done. It is very unfortunate that in County Wexford it is practically impossible at certain times of the day to hear the Irish programme. I think that the Minister has done his best and we hope the position will improve. Having regard to the fact that reception is as it is, would not the Minister consider making some adjustment in the annual fee payable by listeners there?

There is no question about it that some evenings we are unable to hear the Irish news and miss a very large part of the Irish programme. For that, I think we should have some little monetary concession. I would like to congratulate the Minister for having banished partially out of the programme all the crooning and jazz which used to occupy so much of it. Knowing that this Estimate was coming on, I made inquiries from one or two people representing different districts, as to what type of programme they really enjoy. In 99 per cent. of the cases, I got the same answer: "Tell the Minister that what we want here is more Irish music and more ceilidhe music." That is the unanimous view of the people in the country.

That is quite correct.

I am glad to say that it is a view I am in entire agreement with, because it suits my personal taste. I must again bring up a very old chestnut which crops up here every year. This year it has more topical significance than usual, having been referred to by the last speaker. It is the entire failure of the Department to include in our programme some form of propaganda about this country. It is necessary at the present time from day to day, and it was certainly necessary a few weeks ago, and I have no doubt that it will again become necessary in the near future. I do not agree with the last speaker that we are prevented from putting our case and views before the world by reason of the fact that we have not a transmitter sufficiently adapted to reach the entire world. If we have anything good to say, it will be handed out around the world from one station to another.

I think that having regard to the fact of the nasty things said about us, things entirely untrue and unfounded, that the State, and this particular Department of the State, have been guilty of gross negligence of the interests of this country by not providing suitable replies and suitable explanations. Now, the question of propaganda on the wireless is divided into two parts. The first is the one I have referred to, namely, the necessity of putting our case before the world from time to time, and refuting the slanderous statements made against us. All that can be done in cool, measured and dignified language.

The next point to which I come, and I have referred to it year after year, is the question of propaganda with reference to the existence of the Border. I never had an answer from anyone until I took up a paper the other day and saw that a member of the Government had delivered a speech at a public function. The net effect of his remarks is this: "I would like to know how those who advocate the abolition of the Border by propaganda on our wireless are going to set about it; it would be a most ineffectual measure and it would lead to bitterness." I want to know now from the Minister, as the Minister in charge of the most effective Constitutional weapon we possess at the present moment for the abolition of this evil, whether the remarks made by the member of the Government with regard to the use of our broadcasting system as a Constitutional means of removing the Border are the views of the Government? Perhaps the Minister will reply?

It is not part of my Estimate.

Then I shall have to take the question to a different place. But, at all events, I would be justified in making this observation if the question were addressed to me, or if I were asked how to remove the Border by propaganda. I entirely disagree with the suggestion that those who advocate the use of the wireless for propaganda want to be in any way scurrilous, in any way vindictive, or say anything that will raise passion. The strength of the case we could present and we would present, based on truth, on justice and on reason, would be such that the most heated and inflamed imagination could not take exception to it.

I put this last request to the Minister. If the Government are going to fail in their duty, which I say is their duty, to help to remove the Border by these means, will they hand over the broadcasting for a certain number of hours per week or per month to those of us who are prepared to put Ireland's case before the world, and I guarantee we will get together a band of men who are able to speak in language that will bring offence to no one, least of all to those we wish to convert. Finally, I would say that, the longer it is left as it is, and the longer we fail to make use of this form of propaganda, the more difficult it will be to bring it into being, as into being it must come, sooner or later. It seems to me that, year by year, we are missing our opportunity. Thank goodness, the time has arrived now, when everyone in this House realises that, when Ireland or any part of Ireland has a grievance, the effective way and the only way to proceed is by Constitutional methods. Only recently, speaking on the Estimate for the Department of Justice——

The Deputy knows that he should not initiate a debate on the Boundary or Partition.

I shall not mention the word Boundary again, Sir.

Nor partition?

I am completely barred. I have no further intention of mentioning the Boundary. The use of wireless for removing any grievance we may have is a Constitutional method and all of us have now come to the time when we believe that the only way to rectify our grievances is by the use of Constitutional methods. I was going to refer to the remarks of the Minister for Justice in speaking on his Estimate. Once we adopt Constitutional methods to rectify and remove our grievances, the last shadow of reason for the use of methods other than Constitutional in this country disappears. I may be out of order in mentioning that in connection with this debate, but the wireless is an effective way Constitutionally. Every single country does it and I do not see why we should not do it. I am not suggesting that we should spend the whole day at it, but this main grievance of ours is worth five or ten minutes per week to tell the truth. Perhaps the best way to start would be to read the Atlantic Charter every week in a different language.

The Minister is rather at a disadvantage in that his Estimate was taken late last year and early this year, and as only a few months have elapsed since we were last debating wireless broadcasting, the Minister has not had very much opportunity to adopt the suggestions put before him in the last debate and to mend, if necessary, his evil ways. I think it is very desirable, and I want further to emphasise it, that Irish news should be given prominence in our news broadcasting. The people of this country, apart from the fact that they have an opportunity of hearing this news from other stations, are growing somewhat weary of eternal repetitions of the slaughter and destruction carried out by the various belligerents and they would be much more anxious to hear of the activities, good or bad, within the confines of our own country.

A great deal has been done in the matter of providing agricultural instruction and information over the wireless, but the work is such that the talks on agriculture have not been as useful as it was hoped they would be. For example, we have had discussions usually between a practical farmer and an agricultural expert on agricultural subjects and, at first glance, one would imagine that this would be an excellent method of putting over progressive ideas in regard to agriculture. But one objectionable feature of those particular talks is that the successful farmer who is called upon to broadcast is called upon to emphasise his own success in farming, and that is a matter which the average man does not like doing and a thing which the average listener rather resents. There is nothing which the average farmer resents more than to hear some other farmer boasting of his success in his particular line.

He does not want to hear the game being given away.

No, but farmers have a little weakness for boasting when they get together. If you meet a farmer at this time of the year he will say he has 20 acres of wheat sown. Later he will tell you that he got 20 barrels to the acre, but that he had only ten acres of wheat. In various ways, farmers try to make their operations more impressive to their listeners, but the average farmer usually, on listening to those statements, sizes them up and does not take them at their face value. There is a tendency to resent the talk of a farmer boasting of his own success. I have no objection whatever to the successful methods of particular farmers being brought to the attention of listeners, but it would be better that they should be brought through the voice of a second party. For example, if remarkable success had been achieved on a particular farm in regard to live stock or the growing of any particular crop, it would be better if the person bringing those facts to the notice of listeners was a person who had visited the farm and knew the owner of the farm himself. That is one aspect of the matter to which I would direct the Minister's attention.

There is another matter in regard to talks by officials whose names are given. In most cases, those officials are more or less tied down to the stereotyped policy of the Department, and must adhere strictly to the text books of the Department. As a result, their observations are usually rather dry to the ordinary listener. In this connection, I would like to make it clear that the average listener is a working man, either working on the land or in a shop or factory, and as he is rather tired after a day's work, he likes to have the programmes made as light and interesting as possible.

For that reason, if we are to get the best result from talks on agriculture, it would be better if we had something in the nature of discussions between groups of persons giving various impressions of their experience in the different branches of farming. For example, they could call attention to the failure in the case of a particular crop, or to some particular failure, and suggest ways and means of remedying it. There may be two or three different people suggesting ways and means which will appeal to the general listener and make the discussion more interesting. We all realise that it is desirable to have the maximum of agricultural education broadcast, but it is necessary, at the same time, to convery it to the public in its most attractive form so that it will be accepted.

I thought I had only to mention the fact that the wireless was being used for distributing information of interest to betting addicts to have that defect remedied, but I notice it has not yet been remedied, and we are still having lists of runners at mechanical greyhound racing tracks announced nightly. It is not necessary to have those broadcasts. I think the people who are interested can get the information required through the Press and it certainly conveys a wrong impression. I do not entirely agree with all Deputy Esmonde has said in regard to propaganda. I agree that it is desirable to put our country's case before the world as well as possible, but in this, as in regard to agriculture, we must bear in mind the attitude of the listeners whom it is intended to impress, and remembering the fact that 80 or 90 per cent. of the world is at present engaged in war, it is doubtful if the views of neutrals are likely to receive a very favourable reception. In the immediate post-war period there will be world-wide discussion in regard to national and international problems, boundary questions and so forth. In that period, neutrals will have ceased to exist, inasmuch as all nations will then be neutral, and there will be an opportunity for a State such as ours to put its position before the world. I think the Minister and his Department should be prepared to take advantage of that period to have our case presented to the world in the best and most desirable form.

It is necessary that plans should now be made for the further development of broadcasting in the post-war period, particularly in view of the fact that there may be a development of television, which will bring broadcasting more effectively to the forefront. We all realise the inroads that the cinema has made in the life of our people, the part that it has taken in forming the character in the young, and the extent to which it is used as a substitute for education. With the development of television, and with broadcasting under national control, there is the possibility that wireless may become a strong rival to the cinema in the formation of national character and in the education of our people. For that reason the Minister should take steps to ensure that Radio Eireann will be foremost in utilising television and any other modern advances which may be made after the war.

With regard to the matter raised by Deputy McCann, with whose views I am in agreement, it is desirable that we should get the best talent for our radio programmes. We should encourage local talent. Our national games, football and hurling, would be very lifeless but for the interest taken in them in different towns and villages. That interest arises mainly from the rivalry and the competition between different parishes or counties. I wonder if we could not stir up more competition in counties and towns in the way of providing radio entertainment. Question Time has been mentioned as an example of different towns going on the air, and the success of that feature can be attributed largely to the local interest that it arouse. If we had similar competition between towns in half-hour variety entertainments it would provide an enjoyable programme and have the effect of stimulating local talent and initiative. The Minister might take the matter into consideration, to see if it would be possible for some towns to put on the air programmes of their own selection. I do not suggest that they should be musical programmes absolutely, but variety programmes produced by local talent.

With regard to general entertainment programmes I suppose it is a question of taste as to what should or should not be broadcast. Certain people may like a particular kind of music which other people may dislike. It would be advisable for the Minister and the Director of Broadcasting to endeavour to accede to what appears to be the wishes of the majority, as to the kind of music or entertainment they desire. Deputy Esmonde mentioned that he believed the people disliked "jazz". That is so generally speaking, but, on the other hand, we could have an overdose of ceilidhe music. Merely because some people like one kind of entertainment, that is not a reason why we should not have some alternative. Deputy Cogan spoke of the broadcasting of racing results and said that it was merely advertising betting. I wonder if the Deputy realises the value to this country of the greyhound trade. It is one that we should endeavour to develop. I am not interested in greyhounds, but many people other than those who bet are interested in them. The Deputy comes from a county that is not interested in the production of greyhounds like Cork or Kerry. If the chance offers, and if there was no prospect of a division in the House I am not sure but some Deputies would risk not merely a bet, but going to some of these meetings. As the breeding of greyhounds is a national industry it is highly desirable that the results of meetings should be broadcast. So far as the broadcasting of dog racing is concerned, it has nothing to do with betting, because the starting price is not given, the winners only being announced. It is not only desirable but important that the results of horse and dog races should be announced. I do not want to exaggerate the importance of either sport but they form portion of important industries.

As to broadcasting proceedings of the Dáil, Deputy Corish referred to the fact that, at one period, if one listened, and had no contact with politics, one would form the impression that the only person who said anything in the Dáil was a Minister. I should like to draw attention to one phase of political activity, arising out of the grow-more-food meetings. According to the broadcasts the only people who spoke at these meetings were Ministers. I appreciate the fact that it is likely that Ministers handed in the script of their speeches beforehand, and that Deputies and Senators did not do so but, at least, the public should be informed that Deputies and Senators were present and spoke at these meetings. There is hardly a Deputy or a Senator on any side of the House who has not spoken at some of the meetings held to advocate the growing of more food. I have listened to broadcasts of meetings from various parts and I never heard the names of any speakers mentioned. Occasionally the name of a Bishop who presided at a meeting was given. I realise that at present the supply of paper is curtailed, and that very often newspapers can only give reports of Ministers' speeches of which they got advance copies. It is desirable, however, that Deputies who speak at these meetings should get some publicity seeing that the Fianna Fáil get their share from the Ministerial end. Practically every Deputy has contributed to the success of meetings held to advocate an extension of food production, and I am sure that the general public are not pleased when they hear that the only persons mentioned as sponsoring food production are Fianna Fáil Ministers.

The only other point I want to make has reference to news. I agree with Deputy Corish that the news, except for a bit of Irish, is just a re-hash of the evening paper or world agency news. I do not know whether it would come under the function of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs to set up a news agency, but when the war is over the question will arise of Irish news, and whether we have sufficient Irish news. I do not know what news Radio Eireann will have to broadcast, because there will be a larger circulation of newsprint, but there will be no war news, we hope. There will be no news agency from which Irish news can be distributed either from or to Ireland. I think that is a point which might merit consideration at the present time.

I spoke on the last Estimate some few months ago and one thing I was very keen on was getting some members of the All-Ireland teams to broadcast on hurling and football. There have been 54 All-Ireland finals in both games, and to my regret the captain of the first Tipperary team of 54 years ago was buried a few months ago, and Father Hayes had to regret that he had not been invited to do something along those lines. An event that draws 70,000 onlookers would be worth recording for future generations. Each county could be left to choose its own man to broadcast. They could go back 50 years and it would be a grand thing to hear these old warriors shoulder their crutches and say how fields were won. They would not do it boastfully. Each county could select its captain or vice-captain. I should also like to mention the question of the Irish accent. I think it is Professor Cole, one of the greatest columnists on the other side who was speaking on this question of accents, and he mentioned the Cockney and the Aberdeen accent, and last, but not least, the Irish accent. He said that if an Irishman came in to him he would simply disarm him and he could rob him because his accent was so beautiful. But why do so many of our announcers assume the Oxford accent? There is a tendency that way, I am sorry to say. We have the Galway accent, the Donegal accent, and the Cork accent. There is great variation between each of these accents. Some of them may be clearer than others, and it would be invidious of me to mention which county I consider best.

Certainly I have heard the sons and daughters of Irish emigrants returning to Ireland saying that they understood more easily the Irish accent than the English of any part of the world, which I think agrees with what this Professor—I think it is Professor Cole—says. He has never to write anything down but reporters just come in and take it. The Oxford accent has no interest for Irishmen, but in this Oxford accent from Radio Eireann I think there is just a touch of Rathmines and Ballsbridge. I lived there for 25 years and I know what they are like. I speak with a little Dublin accent myself but people tell me that when I speak seriously the Tipperary blas comes out. Certainly there is no clearer accent in Ireland than that of my native Tipperary. That may be egotism, perhaps, but certainly the accents of Kerry, Cork and the North are charming. Some time ago an announcer appeared in Radio Eireann who had a beautiful accent and correspondence ensued in a leading Irish daily as to who this announcer was, and his identity was disclosed. He was a professor in Newcastle, and even in the Radio Times, though, of course, they could not give top place to an Irishman, correspondents paid tribute to the way he spoke. Then you have Fr. Hayes. He is from Limerick, so I do not claim all for my native Tipperary. Fr. Hayes, who is a curate in Tipperary, was taken to Buenos Aires to deliver the sermon at the congress. That was a great tribute to him. You have heard him speak on the wireless and, in many other places, including the Mansion House, Dublin. He has a charming accent, but why are our announcers assuming an Oxford accent with a touch of Rathmines and Ballsbridge? It is said that the Oxford accent is the best but I deny that utterly. I say that there is nothing to beat the Irish accent. There are just one or two more points I would like to mention. I would like to labour the point about getting all-Ireland players to broadcast. We have two of them in the House. Deputy Donnellan of my Party, is one. He captained the Galway team, and he has a beautiful voice. Then there is Deputy Spring. Then there is the Director of Radio Eireann, whom we would love to hear but have never heard. On the other side, I believe, there were people whom listeners were definitely tired of hearing. There was a gentleman named Lord Halifax, and I believe he could not be kept from speaking. He was speaking nearly every night, and I believe he was told quietly to leave as a result.

The agricultural debates that Deputy Cogan and other Deputies have alluded to are certainly interesting. On the average, the successful farmer does not like boasting, and the only farmers I hear boasting are the fellows in the "pubs." saying that they are growing 25 barrels to the acre. There was one gentleman who grew 32½ barrels to the Irish acre. Well, I am a bit of a liar myself, but 11? barrels were the average. There is just one other point I was struck by. Deputy Cosgrave alluded to it. It was about Irish greyhounds. I am not much of a betting man or much of a sporting man, but I think that some of the greyhound breeders could be got to speak on the radio, because when the war is over the Irish greyhounds are going to bring a big amount of money into the country. I do not know that I could ask the Minister in charge how much money they are bringing into the country, but I think that they will equal the horse and cattle industry if not beat the whole tribe of them. You would be doing a national service if you took time by the forelock and took some of the breeders of greyhounds and got them to give talks on the radio. Some of these greyhounds make very high prices in public auctions. For instance, "The Queen of the Suir" fetched a figure running into thousands. I would say to the Minister that this is a work of national importance.

The Deputy should address the Chair.

With reference to the musical programmes, I am not very keen on high-class music. I love "The Bard of Armagh", "Father O'Flynn" and the "Rakes of Mallow", but I do not like symphony concerts, which may please the Rathmines and Ballsbridge class, but do not interest the rank and file throughout the country. I suggest that the station put on some more tenors, to sing some of the old songs of 30 or 40 years ago, such as "My Sweetheart When a Boy". Roddy the Rover has mentioned many suitable songs. A lot of the old tenor ballads are buried and the few sung are hackneyed. I would like some more Irish music.

The greyhound talks are very necessary. There is no means of advertising greyhounds at the moment but, when the ports are open again, there will be greyhounds here from every city in the world. Some workers spend 40 minutes out of the meal hour at dog races. Greyhounds can be reared in a backyard in town, village or city, in labourer's cottage or farmer's house, and are of great importance in Irish life.

The Minister need not be ashamed of Irish broadcasting. It has made vast improvements from year to year and is up to the standard of many outside stations. The programmes, including céilidhe music, and Question Time are good; and the people generally are deeply interested in them. In the country, one of the biggest drawbacks is that of the battery wearing out and there is a rush to get a new one. That is a good tribute to the station. We have too much repetition of the war news, which is practically the same each time. The headlines should be sufficient at certain times and more Irish news of local interest should be given.

I agree with Deputy Esmonde that we have not enough broadcasting to the world. There should be more of that at present, as our position over the past three or four years has been darkened. Too many people have been glad to blacken us and the wireless would be an important means of counteracting that. The reunion of Ireland is of the utmost importance for the stability of the nation. There should be a weekly talk to the people in Northern Ireland, bringing them hope and encouragement. They feel cut away and that we are more or less ashamed of them. We could tell them we are thinking of them and hoping to bring about the restoration of Ireland a nation at the first opportunity. That is our chief aim—before economics or anything else.

There should also be a weekly talk to our people in Britain, making clear the position at home. The majority of people there do not understand the Irish question, but think we are a set of cranks who, no matter what we are given, want something more. We should let them know we have a grievance against their country and Government. There should also be a weekly talk to our friends in America, Australia and New Zealand. We are altogether too silent on the question of national reunion. We should not allow a set of bigots in our own country to sit safely in their seats, and they should be made to realise that.

The Deputy is treading on dangerous ground.

The silence on the Irish question seems to be a deliberate policy of the Government, but the time for silence is over. The first item on our programme should be the reunion of the motherland—morning, noon and night.

There is a lot in what has been said by Deputy Giles. We do not seem to be acting very efficiently in bringing home to people outside the position of our country, due to its partition by a foreign power. When I was in Great Britain, I noticed you could never get in contact with Radio Eireann, as some other station seemed to be continually interfering. On St. Patrick's Night or at Christmas, when An Taoiseach would be broadcasting around 10 o'clock we, as Irish exiles, listened but could never hear. That was the case, even when most of the stations were off the air. I am told that, even in Northern Ireland, it is very difficult to hear Radio Eireann. The Minister should have an investigation carried out to find the cause.

In preparing broadcasts for people in Great Britain, I would say, from my experience over a number of years, that the working class in Britain would be the best to address. The English people in general, particularly the working class, are not aware of our position and we should try to bring it home to them—not in any bigoted manner, but meeting them on their own ground. That will convince them that we are right. Their ignorance is, perhaps, not their own fault, but is due to the education in their own schools. They look upon us as a crowd of rascals, out for spite, and trying to get some hold over them, for some wrong committed in the days of Cromwell.

The Government would be wise in using Radio Eireann to explain the cause of partition, the reason for our neutrality, the gain we have in being neutral and our expectations when the war is over. The point is that, so far as we are concerned, we have no feelings whatever against the British people to-day, or even against the British Government. If we could make that clear by means of our radio service I think that we would be rendering a great service to the Irish people and the Irish nation.

Our radio service is closed down for many hours during the day. I think that is a pity. Why not utilise some of those hours for talks to children of about 14 and 15 years of age? As a rule they are knocking about the house at home and have nothing to do. I think that the radio might be utilised more to inculcate in them a good civic spirit: to tell them that if they see anybody doing anything wrong such as breaking wooden gates on farms, throwing stones or doing damage of any sort whatever, they should report such occurrences to the authorities. They might be told, too, if they see large stones on the road they should remove them in case people travelling at night might meet with an accident by colliding with them. Talks on those lines would, I suggest, help to build up among our young people a good type of citizen. In view of all that the country has gone through during hundreds of years, that we were an oppressed race, that the country has gone through various revolutions in fighting for its independence, it may be that as a people we are hot tempered and a little excitable, but, taking everything into account, we have no reason whatever to feel ashamed. Therefore, I urge that if, in any respect, our people are lacking in a good civic spirit, the wireless might be utilised to correct that situation. All in this country profess to be Christians. Therefore, everything should be done to make the Christian spirit manifest. We should strive to be an example to the new Europe that we are told is to emerge from the conflict that is now proceeding. Naturally, the new Europe will look to the neutral countries for good example after this war. The wireless, therefore, should be used for the spreading amongst our youth of the Christian spirit and the Christian ideal.

Two news bulletins are broadcast daily. Our people are interested in what is going on in the world. The people in the Irish-speaking districts would like to have a full service of news in the Irish language, and the same, of course, applies to those who speak English. A good many would like to hear the foreign versions of the news that is broadcast, and leave it to themselves, as we say in the country, to read between the lines.

I would again ask the Minister to have the radio utilised more extensively for the inculcation of a sound civic spirit amongst the youth of the country. They should be made realise that the State is theirs and that everything they do should be done in the interests of the State: that it is a crime against good citizenship to be throwing stones at hay barns and haysheds, to remove wooden gates from farm lands, to steal apples from orchards, or to do any of those other things of which young people are sometimes guilty. I think that the wireless could play a great part in building up the character of our young people by talks on the lines I have indicated.

So far as broadcasts to the English people and Northern Ireland are concerned, the worst thing that could be done would be to suggest that we regarded them as bigots. I could see a great danger in that. We should always be mindful of the fact that the people in the North have just as much right to select the type of man that they want to represent them as the people in this part have to select the type of men they wish to represent them. We should be able to point out to them, from our history and traditions, that in an earlier day the leaders from the Presbyterian and Protestant Churches in the North were just as noble and as patriotic as those on the Catholic side, and gave their lives fighting for the freedom of this country.

The Deputy is developing what some other speakers suggested, namely, to lay down a radio programme instead of trying to convince the Minister that there should be a particular programme. The Deputy realises how a debate on those lines might, unfortunately, develop.

My belief, at any rate, is that the radio could be used for such a purpose. It certainly should not be used for the purpose of creating bigotry or animosity.

Is the Minister in a position to say how many licensed wireless sets there are in the country?

About 170,000.

Broadcasting, as we all realise, plays a very important part in the education and amusement of the country. I am glad that steps are being taken to have a sort of rejuvenation in the matter of Irish language classes for the people, especially for those whose knowledge of Irish has become somewhat dimmed during the passing years. Useful work, I believe, could be done in that direction by the radio service. I suggest to the Minister that he should arrange for the broadcasting of lessons in Irish suitable for a beginners' class. That would be useful. It is to be regretted that, at the moment, a large number of wireless sets are out of commission. When more of them come again into commission I think the radio might be utilised to help convince them of the importance of the restoration of the Irish language.

The one thing, I believe, that will help to restore Irish as the spoken language of the country is the use of it in the home between parents and children. That will do more for its restoration than the compulsory use of the language in the schools. I do not want to trench on the Estimate for the Department of Education but, in passing, I do want to say that unless the parents are able to speak in Irish to the children in the home very little progress, from the language point of view, is likely to be made. Therefore, I say wireless broadcasting could be of enormous service if by means of instruction for beginners, given over the radio, the enthusiasm of the parents could be aroused to learn the language.

On the question of the radio programmes generally, I think they are excellent. Some very fine items indeed are given. I want to compliment all concerned on "Question Time". It is one of the most enjoyable and entertaining items in the programme. So is the feature under the title of "Fireside Hours". There are other items, too, which are very good. I wish to compliment those who give them, and to say that I think they are of very great benefit. All the items to which I have referred are very much enjoyed by the people of the country. As regards the agricultural debates which take place over the radio, I confess that I do not think they do much good, and I sometimes feel they are a waste of time. I was wondering if the Minister could assist charitably disposed persons who are making wireless sets available for the blind in the matter of distributing those sets amongst people who are receiving blind pensions. The fact that a person has a blind pension is definite proof that that person is no longer capable of carrying on ordinary vocations. I think those charitably disposed people are engaged in very excellent work and the Minister should assist them to a greater extent in procuring batteries and the other parts that may be required to permit the wireless sets to work efficiently.

I feel that some of the lectures upon technical subjects could very well be left out of the programme. Most people do not require them. Very few people will go to the trouble to take up pencil and paper and write down the information which they can obtain from those lectures. I would say that not more than 10 per cent. of the people retain the information imparted by means of the lectures. Where you have household hints, or hints on making and mending, it is astonishing the number of people who write back requesting a repeat programme. That shows that they do not take up their pencils and paper at the proper time to write down the information given in the lecture. They will, however, take the pen in hand to write to the broadcasting station for a repeat programme. They should be warned over the wireless that there will not be a repeat programme and they should be advised to write down what they require when the lecture is being delivered. I would not be prepared to facilitate them so much by repeating these lectures. In some cases people are entitled to a chance when they ask for information, but to ask the same thing two or three times over is very unfair.

I would like to congratulate the Minister and the Director of Broadcasting on the improvement that has been brought about in the service generally. We would like to get more of it. I am very sorry that the hours have been restricted. I think some effort should be made to extend the hours rather than restrict them.

I would like to avail of this debate in order to put a few points to the Minister. One concerns the Station Orchestra and its use in connection with opera in Dublin. The Minister will recollect that last year there was considerable anxiety by reason of the fact that the Minister decided to withdraw the services of the Radio Éireann Orchestra from the Dublin Operatic Society. After a good deal of parleying, the Minister consented to allow the arrangement which was in operation for some years to continue. I do not think it requires much emphasis to convince the Minister in this connection, because I know he is very anxious to see Dublin in particular taking its proper place in the operatic world. Seeing that he has those inclinations, I think there are certain matters that might be left on one side in order to develop the musical aspect. It is quite impossible under present conditions to get together an orchestra in Dublin for operatic purposes because there are not sufficient activities of that type to keep an orchestra employed. I should like to impress on the Minister what a very serious blow it would be to opera in Dublin if the services of the Radio Éireann orchestra are withdrawn. It will clarify the position, if the Minister will indicate that by some arrangement or other the services of the Radio Éireann orchestra can be obtained in the future.

I should like to join with other Deputies in congratulating the Minister and the broadcasting staff on the great improvements that have been made in the matter of broadcasting generally. I suggest that the staff and the artists should receive a little more remuneration. That matter has been dealt with already pretty fully and I do not want to detain the House by going into details, but I do feel that some improvement should be made there. As regards Question Time, I see that it is intended to suspend that feature, which is such a popular item in the Sunday night programme.

Only the broadcasts organised by the Irish Tourist Association.

If that feature were to be suspended, it would be very regrettable, because it is a really popular item. There is a danger of that happening because of the transport difficulties. I would be glad to hear that I am wrong in thinking it, but I do think there is a danger of that feature being suspended as a result of the transport difficulties. Having regard to the benefit that Question Time brings to our cities and towns, I think some effort should be made to continue that feature and facilities should be provided so that the very intellectual compere may be enabled to continue to provide us with that very enjoyable and interesting item on Sunday nights.

Ba mhaith liom cuidiú leis an moladh a thug an Teachta Mac Eoin. I want to support the plea made by Deputy MacEoin for beginners' classes, and I would go further and suggest that the most commonly used book by beginners in Irish, namely, "Aids to Irish Composition", by the Christian Brothers, be the basis of these classes. I am fairly conversant with Irish classes up and down the country, and fairly conversant with the system obtaining in the schools, and I think it will be found that that book is almost universal now. If teachers take into account what is the popular text book, and not be guided by their own likes or dislikes, they will get that text book, which is cheap and easy to follow. I believe they will find all they require in "Aids to Irish Composition", which is in almost everybody's hands, and in the cheap grammar that goes along with it, and in that way beginners' classes could be made very useful over the winter months.

We have a very good Scottish half hour. Everybody I know listens to it with gusto. I suggest that a little bit of Welsh rarebit would be no harm, though the Minister may have no taste for it himself.

How does the Deputy know?

I believe it would be found very digestible by a lot of people. If we had a Welsh half hour, too, I believe it would be a buttress to Gaelic culture here. The Welsh music and language and folklore would, I believe, be very acceptable among our people and would have an infinitely greater influence even than the Scottish half hour. I consider it would be a great help to us if a Welsh feature could be included in our programme.

I do not know whether we can get anything from Manxland. I think the language and culture are nearly dead there. But, if there is anything to be got from there, it would be a benefit to us. One thing we can learn from the Scottish half hour is the proper method of playing jigs, reels and hornpipes. Their orchestration is perfect; it is far ahead of that of our céilidhe bands. The arrangement of the wood and brass instruments leaves nothing to be desired. If our céilidhe bands would take a headline from the Scottish céilidhe bands it would be of benefit to Irish music. I think the Minister has very little to do with that.

I will tell you all about it.

I am throwing it out as a general suggestion. With the Scottish céilidhe bands, the timing and everything else is perfect. If you heard a certain tune played by a Scottish céilidhe band and an Irish céilidhe band you would not think it was the same tune. The music is slurred over and blurred over by the Irish céilidhe bands. It is not brought out as the Scottish céilidhe bands bring it out. I support the plea of Deputy MacEoin with reference to Irish.

I think I had better begin at the end and work back to the beginning. Deputy Kennedy raised very interesting questions. It was only recently that a very expert musician pointed out to me that they had a genius in Scotland at the moment—Mr. Ian White—and that he is orchestrating céilidhe music. I only wish we had as good in this country. As a matter of fact, we are giving a good amount of Irish music at present, and we hope to do more for it. There is a great future for it. I have great hopes that we will be able to orchestrate properly a lot of céilidhe music, and that we will be able to satisfy the other demands made by Deputies. Deputy Esmonde said that we should give more Irish music. If we do not give as much Irish music as is asked for, it is because we have not got sufficient adequately to fill our programmes. It does not do to be singing the same songs over and over again. Even the best songs suffer if they become so hackneyed that people get tired of them. The demand on the radio station is enormous; it is going every night for so many hours. It is interesting to know that so much can be made out of Irish music. It has a tremendous future, even from the point of view of the most difficult type of music.

As to the question raised by Deputy Doyle—I am sorry he is not in the House to hear my answer—we have great difficulty about lending the orchestra for opera purposes. In Dublin we are all enthusiasts for opera; Dublin has a great tradition for that. This opera work was really interfering with the health of the members of our orchestra. Unless I made an iron rule about the matter they would be in a very awkward position, because they do not want to refuse. It meant a certain amount of money for them, but even the members of the orchestra were prepared to forgo the extra money because they felt that the opera season was too severe a strain upon them. Then, of course, it told on the station. If they were tired out during the opera season, they were not able to fulfil their duties in connection with the station adequately. Therefore, we had to make a rule that after this year we could not lend the orchestra to these two operatic societies. We have given them very long notice, because, after making the rule, I went back on it again and let them have the orchestra for another season. From this on, therefore, they should organise another orchestra. I believe that there are plenty of good musicians in Dublin. Indeed, it has been put to me very strongly that it is not fair to outside musicians who could do the work adequately. It may mean a little more difficulty in preparation and more rehearsals in the beginning, but in the long run I think it is a far wiser policy not to rely on the station any more for the orchestra for operas.

Deputy MacEoin raised the question of providing facilities for blind persons listening-in. Certainly, if we get notice and can help in getting batteries, etc. for these people, we shall be glad to do so. We have no official influence in the matter, of course, but we can use our influence unofficially. The number of batteries available, however, is only about one-fourth of the requirements of the country. People have been very wise in regard to that matter. Many of them stored their sets, but now it looks as if they were beginning to use their sets again in a very conservative way so that the batteries will last out. I know people who only tune in for special items. They only listen in to the news or special items in which they are interested.

Deputy MacEoin also referred to the question of Irish. We have devoted a lot of time to propaganda in connection with the Irish language and, in a sense, to the teaching of Irish. Recently, we have introduced an item the title of which is: "Is your Irish Rusty." A story is told in English and then in simple Irish by an native speaker, and in that way we are trying to help the language. I am sure that any suggestions made by Deputies need not be dealt with by me, because they will be dealt with by the station officials. On our advisory committee we intend to pay special attention to the development of the language. We have a very strong section of the committee who are actually meeting in order to improve, by their suggestions, our programmes dealing with Irish.

Deputy Cafferky suggested longer hours for broadcasting. Longer hours would cost a tremendous amount of money, especially from the point of view of the use of electricity, and, of course, we are limited in that connection now. Actually we are cutting down the hours at the moment, because we have to save electricity. Deputy Dockrell asked a question about wireless telephones. We use wireless telephones, especially to the outer islands. I understand that our experts are watching the development of that matter and, if an extension is practicable, of course we will bring forward proposals for it. We have, however, always to have regard to the expense involved. The Deputy also raised the question of the extra money spent on electricity supply. That is under sub-head E. The Deputy was not able to put his finger on it. Actually, we have had to reduce the hours of broadcasting by half an hour per day. Instead of beginning at 1 p.m., we begin it at 1.15 and, instead of ending at 2.30 p.m., we end at 2.15 p.m. We save half an hour in that way and that means a considerable saving of electricity.

Deputy Corish and Deputy Esmonde referred to the question of interference. We cannot do anything about that. Our chief officers gave great attention to that matter. They went down the east coast and along the south coast. The interference is very serious and is causing us a great deal of anxiety. Beyond making representations to foreign countries where the interference comes from—there has been a slight improvement lately—it is impossible to do anything to stop it. I suppose until the present phase, in fact until the emergency is over, we can hardly expect to get the matter put right. One of the main functions of the international conference to which our experts went was the dividing up of the air and the prevention of interference on the air. These conferences cannot take place at present and the money in the Estimate is really in connection with paying up arrears due to these organisations.

The news service has been improved very considerably. Finance have agreed to pay an editor an increased salary of £10 10s. 0d. per week and we have two reporters, one of whom acts as assistant or deputy. They are to get £7 7s. 0d. per week, with an extra £1 when acting as deputy or assistant. We propose to arrange for eight local correspondents in the main centres, so that we shall have our own supply of news from all parts of the country, and indeed my hope is that it would develop into the kind of news agency referred to by Deputy Cosgrave. In any case, I look forward to a considerable improvement in our Irish news service. Generally speaking, in giving the news, we should not have regard to news from any other station because our news is different from that which comes from our neighbour, in that we try to give both sides of the picture. We do not merely rely on the newspapers; we also get news from other sources. At the same time, war news, I must admit, does become very monotonous, because it very often develops into an enumeration of so many events of exactly the same type.

Deputy McCann raised the question of the short-wave station. We spent £6,000 on short-wave experiments in an effort to reach America. The experiments were a failure. With a one kilowatt plant, we were not able to reach America, but the Research Bureau at present are investigating the possibility of making our own plant and bringing the power up to 20 kilowatts. So far, they have not been able to arrive at the point at which they could give us anything we could use, but we are looking forward to an improvement in the position. We are watching the situation, and that is all I can say. We are as anxious as anybody to get our views heard all over the world. The existing station reaches a limited area. Medium waves, however, do not reach America, and they would not reach other countries like South Africa or Australia.

The question of having a repertory company was also raised by Deputy McCann. We are content at the moment with having what amounts to an informal panel of actors. It is not exclusive; we rely on those working with us for a long time, and it amounts to a panel. The position of producers is under consideration. We are giving them a little extra facilities within our limited means, and, if that does not prove satisfactory, I would hope for further development in the matter, because I think it needs it. We shall have to wait, however, and see how we get on. I will look into the question of the musicians' contracts as well as into many other matters of detail which could be better dealt with in the station than on the Estimate.

I have already dealt with Deputy Esmonde's suggestion about Irish music. We do hope to do more, and to do it better, and to have it better orchestrated in future. The question of propaganda is a very large one, and scarcely concerns us, except as the agency for putting it across. In the present extremely difficult international position, for any neutral country, propaganda must be subordinated to diplomacy, and sometimes it is very much wiser for a small neutral country to keep silent than to enter into the very dangerous field of propaganda. Then, again, many people will not listen to it simply because they know it is propaganda—every station has been deluged with it—but in any case I do not think it is a question which should be discussed on this Vote. It would be much better raised on the Taoiseach's Vote, I think.

Deputy Cogan referred to the agricultural talks. Our agricultural experts are anxious to give us as accurate information as possible, and not to allow people to be misled by information of a merely experimental kind which may do more harm than good, but the result is that the talks are perhaps a little on the technical side. Personally, I should like to see them a little more of general interest, but that is a purely personal view. I do not know how far the art of the propagandist can be introduced so as to make the talks more interesting, and, at the same time, thoroughly reliable from the agricultural point of view.

The question of greyhound racing is a difficult one. We did stop giving the results for a little while, and there was rather an outcry about it all over the country. As Deputy Cosgrave has said, there is a big trade involved. The breeding of greyhounds is quite an industry, involving a considerable amount of money. I must say, however, that I have certain misgivings, because I think there is more furious betting on greyhounds than on anything else; but, as long as we do not give "tips", we are keeping within reason in giving merely the results.

You could give a "bend" now and again, not a "tip".

We are watching television very closely. Not merely in television, but in general development of broadcasting, there have been tremendous advances, and, as soon as the war is over, we shall have to adapt ourselves to the new improvements and discoveries. In a way, it was lucky that we did not build the station we proposed to build when the emergency came along, because we might have got equipment which would be out of date by the time the emergency is over. Now we have a free hand for the future.

As to local effort, we do aim at encouraging it as far as possible. Sometimes we have been disappointed in the results, because the local artists were not perhaps up to standard. The element of competition is always of interest, of course, and has been made use of to a considerable extent. Deputy Cosgrave is right that we should have a certain variety, and without going too low in music we must not be altogether exclusive. At the same time, we have aimed at trying to improve the general standard, and I think that on the whole people are satisfied. I disagree entirely with Deputy O'Donnell who seems to resent the symphony music. It has a public of young people who are just as democratic as anybody else and who seem to take a tremendous interest in it. Our public for that kind of music all over the country is growing, and I think Irish music will improve enormously when the two are combined. It has been done already, of course, but there is a great future for it.

If I have missed any point or anybody has suggestions of a constructive nature to make, we are always anxious to hear from them, because very often out of a simple suggestion successful features arise. For instance, when "Question Time" and "Information, Please" were thought of, no one anticipated that they would develop into the popular items they are to-day. Good ideas may occur to anybody which could be made the subject of development in future.

Could the Minister say whose version or interpretation of the National Anthem is played at the end of the programme each night, because it is atrocious? Would it not be possible to get the version of the No. 1 Army Band?

Another version has been prepared, but I do not know how long it will take to get ready.

The sooner the better. It is served up almost as "jazz" at the moment.

Having regard to the fact that the Minister holds out no hope of an improvement in reception in Wexford, and I am inclined to agree that it is beyond improvement for some time to come, would he consider reducing the annual licence fee in that area?

The last time we raised the licence fee, we did so rather more for Finance purposes than for our own, and if we were to reduce fees now, it would be used as a reason for reducing our revenue.

Vote put and agreed to.
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