asked the Minister for Local Government and Public Health whether he has received a request from the Dublin Corporation for sanction to supply 1,000 sandwiches with milk per day to certain children attending Marlboro' Street National Schools, and whether he has agreed to the proposal; and, if so, if he is prepared to make the usual 50 per cent. Grant-in-Aid available from the Exchequer, and by what date.
Ceisteanna.—Questions. Oral Answers. - School Meals Scheme.
Mr. A. Byrne
A request on the lines referred to by the Deputy was received. Provision for the expenditure involved in the proposal to provide meals in Marlboro' Street National Schools was not made by the corporation in their estimate of expenditure on school meals submitted by them to my Department in respect of the current financial year. The Department's Vote for this year does not accordingly contain any provision for recoupment of that additional expenditure.
Mr. A. Byrne
Does that mean that the Department will not give the usual 50 per cent. recoupment, if the corporation accept responsibility for giving school meals to children attending Marlboro' Street National Schools? Will the corporation have to pay in full?
That is what it means.
Mr. A. Byrne
The Government will not give the 50 per cent.?
Because the estimate was not submitted in time.
Mr. A. Byrne
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the corporation got the application from Marlboro' Street National Schools only recently, and could not include it?
The Deputy is aware that the Department's Estimate must be submitted to the Minister for Finance before 1st December each year.
Mr. A. Byrne
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the corporation did not get this application from Marlboro' Street National Schools last October or even last year? The corporation is prepared to give the meals to these school children, but, under the Act, the Minister is empowered to recoup 50 per cent. of the cost. Does the reply mean that the Department will not give it?
I have already said that that is exactly what it means.
Mr. Larkin
How could the corporation give an indication of what it proposes to spend, inasmuch as the parish priest did not apply until recently? We did provide £5,000 extra in our estimate, but there were applications from schools subsequently, and I suggest that the Department might reconsider the position. I know it is difficult for the Minister for Finance when making up his figures, but that is the position. Are these children to go without the meal?
It must be clear to the Deputies interested in this matter that the demands cannot be varied from month to month. In fact, that is what has been done in the case of the Dublin Corporation. Since the first estimate was received on 22nd October, there have been from time to time a number of amendments of the demand. Finality must be reached at some stage. The estimated expenditure on school meals in Dublin City is £104,500 for the current year, 1944-45. The Minister for Finance will have to find £52,250 of that amount. It would be utterly unreasonable that from time to time throughout the year we should make additional demands on the Central Fund. We have to get finality at some stage and give the Minister for Finance an opportunity of estimating the probable calls on the Central Fund.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the corporation's financial year ends on 31st March, and that, in relation to previous instances of this sort, the Department always gave sanction for supplementary allowances? Does he consider it reasonable that, because the corporation submits its estimate in March, it should assume what the amount will be to suit his particular arrangements in respect of October? The whole thing is definitely unreasonable.
The corporation has been warned time and again, not this year or last year but on several occasions during the past four or five years, that a firm estimate must be received within a certain time. The corporation are not being prevented from incurring the increased expenditure under this heading. The only point at issue is that any expenditure over the £104,500 will have to be borne out of corporation funds.
Might I point out that not one penny of this money will be payable out of the Central Fund? It will be paid out of Supply Services and there is nothing on God's earth to prevent him from bringing in a Supplementary Estimate for this sum, if he thinks it necessary, and letting the House decide whether the money will be provided out of the Exchequer by way of subsidy to the corporation in connection with this scheme. It is done every week.
Mr. A. Byrne
We sympathise with the Parliamentary Secretary, and we understand his position. We are not without appreciation of the difficulties, but what is to happen if, due to emergency conditions, further unemployment arises and a parish manager makes up his mind to ask for 2,000 school meals? The School Meals Committee of the corporation and the parish managers wish to give, and will give, these meals, but we appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to give us the 50 per cent. recoupment which he is empowered to give and to introduce a Supplementary Estimate, as we in the corporation will have to do, because of the emergency circumstances.
I have nothing further to add.