asked the Minister for Defence if it is correct that the new wing to St. Bricin's Hospital is being built by members of Oglaigh na hEireann, performing the work usually carried out by civilian building trade workers, but receiving only their normal rates of Army pay, and if he will indicate the policy of his Department on the question of the utilisation of members of Oglaigh na hEireann to perform work normally carried out by civilian employees.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - St. Bricin's Hospital Extension.
Owing to the extreme urgency of providing accommodation at St. Bricin's Hospital for Army tuberculosis patients awaiting transfer to civilian sanatoria, the work referred to is being carried out mainly by Engineer Field Company personnel, who receive special additional pay in respect of their trade qualifications.
The normal policy is that members of Oglaigh na hEireann are employed on field engineer works, whilst civilians employed under the supervision of the Corps of Engineers are utilised on barrack maintenance. Works of the nature referred to by the Deputy are normally carried out by contract.
Experience has shown that works of this nature can be carried out more expeditiously by Engineer Field Company personnel who are trained specially for rapid engineering work in the field. Suitable opportunities must also be taken to employ such personnel at their trades in order to maintain their proficiency and to secure some return for the special trade pay which they receive.
A certain number of civilian workmen will, however, be employed on a later stage of the construction work at St. Bricin's Hospital.
Am I to take it that this particular construction work would normally be carried out by civilian labour but that, in addition to the question of having it completed in a hurry, two other factors enter, first, the desire to keep the members of the engineering unit in training and, second, to take advantage of the rates of pay related to trade qualifications? This indicates a new departure on the part of the Department. At the time when this wing was commenced, there were from 1,900 to 2,000 building workers idle in Dublin. On the occasion when it was suggested that we should use the Army lorries to draw turf we were told that no members of the Army could be spared even for an urgent emergency job. Now we find that they can be spared to replace civilian workers who are idle and obliged to attend the labour exchange.
Deputies new to the House should realise that Question Time is not a time for entering into debate. A Deputy may, at the discretion of the Chair, ask supplementary questions arising out of the Minister's reply. A Deputy may not make a speech in further reply.
I thought the Minister would reply to Deputy Larkin's points.
The urgency of the matter made a decision imperative in that particular case. The House, on many occasions, pressed me to get on with the construction of such a building, and in order to expedite the completion of the building I issued an instruction—I have a perfect right to do so—that the work should be carried out by military personnel. It is a fact that as the building nears completion there will be a large number of skilled tradesmen employed to do the finishing work.
Does the Minister not realise that it is not calculated to promote harmony if a number of building trade workers join the Army for the duration of the war and their services are then utilised, whilst in the Army, to deprive civilian craftsmen of the opportunity of carrying out work which would be normally carried out by such civilian craftsmen?
Will the Minister say that any real difficulty would have been experienced in making these additions to Saint Bricin's Hospital if building workers who are registered every day at the exchange were utilised on the basis of three shifts to carry out the work the Minister states was so urgent? Is it not strange that this work should be carried out by soldiers when building trade workers are parading to the exchange in search of work which they cannot get and which is available in the Army?
I think the Deputy's remark is completely unjustified. The members of the engineering units are engaged to go wherever there are works of military importance to be carried out. We do not consult with contractors or with Deputies or anyone else as to whom we will send when work of that nature arises. The urgency of getting this building completed, I have already informed the Deputy, was the reason I made the decision to get military personnel to carry it out and I say the work will be completed in at least half the time it would otherwise take.
Will the Minister say if military personnel was working overtime on that building and not getting paid for it?
There is no question of that.
Did the Minister know when he came to that decision that close on 2,000 building trade workers were idle in Dublin?