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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 Jun 1944

Vol. 94 No. 7

Committee on Finance. - Vote 28—Emergency Scientific Research Bureau.

Tairgim:

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £12,750 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1945, chun Oifig Thaighde Eolaíochta Ré na Práinne, maraon le Deontas-i-gCabhair.

That a sum not exceeding £12,750 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1945, for the Emergency Scientific Research Bureau, including a Grant-in-Aid.

The total provision for the year is £19,250 as compared with £32,850 for last year. The reduction of £13,600 is due to the decrease in the Grant-in-Aid provided under sub-head B, and arises mainly from the transfer to the Turf Development Board, Limited, of the work on the production of charcoal at Turraun. The programme of investigation for the year involves smaller decreases under some other headings, while increases are expected under such headings as producers, medical supplies, and explosives. The total volume of work is not expected to be any lower than last year, as some of the larger investigations are being conducted in collaboration with other Departments which will bear the costs involved.

The Emergency Scientific Research Bureau continues to deal with technical problems arising from the emergency, and to advise on difficulties due to shortages of materials. The Grant-in-Aid is intended to cover the cost of such investigations and researches as may prove necessary, particularly in connection with problems relating to fuel, broadcasting, essential medical supplies, iron and steel, adhesives, fertilisers, explosives, and office work of the Bureau.

Work has proceeded on the provision of substitute fuels for transport. Improvements in the turf charcoal plant at Turraun have resulted in an output of high-grade charcoal at a rate of about 20 tons per week. This fuel has been used in cross-draught producer plants with satisfactory results. The responsibility for the operation of the plant was transferred to the Turf Development Board, Limited, on the 1st December, 1943, but the Bureau continues to supervise the technical aspects of the work. Attention is being given to the problems relating to the recovery and utilisation of the by-products of carbonisation. The examination of the manufacture of charcoal in hand-operated kilns has been continued, and the Bureau memorandum on the production of this fuel in portable kilns and in pits has been issued to a large number of inquirers.

Improvements were made in a cross-draught producer fitted to a two-ton lorry, and satisfactory results were obtained from running tests. The consumption of machine-won turf charcoal was 1.5 lbs. per mile. Further investigations with a view to improving the design and effectiveness of producer units will be continued. The experience gained in the course of this investigation has enabled the Bureau to give advice to Government Departments, and to deal with a number of outside technical inquiries. Investigations are continuing on the properties of peat tar, and substitute materials for use in the manufacture of polishes and certain supplies required by the boot industry have been obtained from it. The Bureau's work on the production of phosphorus has proceeded satisfactorily, and the size of the plant has been increased.

A spectrographic apparatus for the analysis of alloy steels has been set up, and has proved of value in the identification of steel samples. Work on the home production of ferro-silicon, which is required by the foundries, was brought to the semi-technical scale, but in view of improvements in the supply position, trial of the process on a commercial scale was not justified. Experiments are in progress on the home manufacture of corrugated steel knives for the cutting of beet in the sugar factories.

The Bureau assisted in an investigation of the possible effects on the health of the community of 100 per cent. extraction flour. An investigation has recently been carried out by the flour millers, under the auspices of the Bureau, in connection with certain difficulties in home baking with the white flour as at present manufactured.

Investigations completed in regard to the manufacture of storage batteries led to the general conclusion that acceptable substitutes for imported batteries could, if necessary, be produced at home. A commercial firm is undertaking, with the Bureau's assistance, the remelting of scrap for the production of battery plates.

The provision of certain essential medical supplies continues to have attention. It has been found that the supply of liquid insulin can be maintained, in case of shortage, by importing a reserve stock of the solid material for dissolving and packing in this country. A full-scale plant for the production of either from alcohol has been erected by Monarchana Alcóil na h-Éireann, Teóranta, working in collaboration with the Bureau, and investigations are now proceeding on the purification of the technical either produced in the course of experimental runs, so as to render it suitable for medical use.

With a view to the production of an improved phosphatic fertiliser, the Bureau carried out experiments on a semi-technical scale on the heat treatment of Clare phosphate rock, either alone, or with sodium carbonate or lime. The products obtained have been tested in the laboratory, and it is hoped to carry out extended field trials with the most promising of the materials. Consideration has also been given to the production of calcium metaphosphate—for use as a fertiliser— from Clare phosphate, and it is hoped to conduct some experiments on this matter during the present year. The better use of pyritic ores from Avoca in the production of sulphuric acid, required in the manufacture of superphosphate, is also being studied.

Several investigations are in progress in regard to the home manufacture of adhesives for various industrial purposes, including boot and shoe manufacture. Formulae have been developed for liquid glue, a general adhesive of the nitro-cellulose type, an adhesive for use with cellophane and an adhesive for abrasive papers.

The uncertainty in regard to imports of explosives has necessitated an examination of the possibilities of the home manufacture of substitute materials, for example, liquid oxygen, gunpowder and potassium chlorate. The manufacture of potassium chlorate has been studied on the semi-technical scale, and arrangements are being made for production on the large scale at an early date.

Difficulties arose in connection with the supply of a preservative for fishing nets, and the Bureau has collaborated with the Irish Sea Fisheries Association, Limited, in developing a substitute process, which is now undergoing practical tests.

Various other investigations are being conducted with a view to relieving difficulties arising from emergency conditions. Attention is being given to the possibilities of improved methods for the production of acetone, a solvent required in many industrial processes. Methods were developed for the preparation of butyl acetate and amyl acetate, and work is in progress on the production of other organic solvents required in industry. Experiments recently conducted on the manufacture of sodium hypochlorite solution are expected to provide against a failure of imported supplies of the chlorine products required by public authorities and creameries for water purification. The geophysical survey is proceeding in collaboration with the Geological Survey, and a study of magnetic anomalies in the down-faulted area of the Carrickmacross-Kingscourt gypsum field is being made. Numerous difficulties were encountered in attempts to increase the power of the transmitter for shortwave broadcasting but it is hoped to continue the work in the present year.

The number of problems put before the Bureau by industrial firms continues to grow, indicating that the value of scientific advice and assistance is appreciated in industry. A variety of minor investigations, resulting from inquiries of this nature, were successfully conducted. These included the re-silvering of mirrors for cinema projectors, the manufacture of axle and cart greases, the production of sewing wax and of a thread lubricant for use in the boot and shoe industry, the manufacture of shoe polish, the polishing of spectacle lenses, and the production of certain supplies for use in hat manufacture. The Bureau has also co-operated with Government Departments in the examination of such subjects as the drying of potatoes for pig food, the dehydration of vegetables, economy in the use of lubricating oil, and investigations necessary to ensure that materials likely to be of value to industry do not leave the country.

As I explained on previous occasions when introducing this Vote, the Bureau's procedure when approached by a firm with a problem is to examine the matter and, from the experience and information available, to give advice to the firm on its difficulty. This advice is given free. If the problem requires investigation the firm or industry for whose benefit the work has been conducted is expected, where appropriate, to contribute to the cost. In most of these investigations the results obtained are likely to be of value in other directions, and the charges made are only a proportion of the total expenses. Some of the investigations, however, are expected to benefit one concern only, and in these instances a larger proportion of the expenses is refunded.

The Bureau has received every possible assistance from Government Departments and from the authorities and staffs of the universities. Industrialists, scientists and private individuals have given considerable help, and much of the work of the Bureau would not be possible without this co-operation.

I am sure the House very fully appreciates the value of the work and the usefulness of the services that have been rendered by the Scientific Research Bureau. Deputies will agree that whatever finances were necessary to keep the Bureau in operation have been wisely spent, and that the nation has got a very good return for the money expended. The Bureau has solved many difficulties arising out of the shortage of materials and of essential equipment due to the emergency, and the substitution of other methods of treatment and other means of manufacture. It has solved these difficulties in the main, of course, for industrial purposes. In that connection, I regret that the Taoiseach and the Government have not seen fit to set up for agriculture a scientific bureau more or less on the same lines. It is true that some of our agricultural problems have been tackled by the Bureau, but I am not very clear as to how direction is given as to the urgency of the problems that exist, the priority that is given to them, or what responsible authority directs the scientists to give attention to particular problems that urgently require attention.

The Taoiseach referred to some research work in regard to the type of treatment given to Clare phosphates. We all appreciate that Clare phosphates are very highly insoluble and that they require a lot of sulphuric acid in their processing. For that reason treatment along the old lines is rather expensive, and of course that expense must inevitably reflect itself in the price and the cost to the State. I think the Bureau in its research regarding the treatment of Clare phosphates should travel along the lines followed on the Continent in the treatment of phosphates, and that is roasting the rock with alkalis. The fluorine present in the rock is gripped by the alkalis and that leaves the phosphate. I believe that gives a better product in the long run, an article that will be more soluble and more immediately available for plant food.

There is another aspect of this problem of artificial manures to which I think I drew the Taoiseach's attention before by way of Parliamentary Question. That is that I feel that some research or exploration work should be done regarding serpentine phosphates here. It has been the experience of other countries that where iron and aluminium silicate or ores are present in the soil, a high degree of fixation occurs as far as the application of phosphates is concerned. Where that fixation has occurred, it meant that these phosphates were not recoverable for plant life. The user of phosphates living on that type of land is getting as low as 10 per cent. of the value of the phosphates. I would say that in our circumstances with the present cost of living and the present cost of artificial manures, that represents a very big loss. In some places that problem has been solved by the admixture with the phosphate rock of another type of rock such as donite or serpentine rock. That has prevented fixation. I think that in a big percentage of our land, mostly of the acid variety, there is a good deal of iron and aluminium present, and if the theory of agricultural scientists in other countries is correct, as I believe it is, then here in our circumstances a very big percentage of fixation is occurring in soil of that type and a large amount of wastage has occurred. I wonder if the Taoiseach would have the matter examined, in conjunction with whatever research is being carried out at present regarding the new treatment of Clare phosphates.

I am glad that the new method of treating phosphates in the manufacture of superphosphates is being fully examined. I think it ought to be vigorously pursued, because, as the Taoiseach will appreciate, one of the biggest difficulties in regard to food production is the lack of artificial manures, particularly in the tillage areas where there is a tradition of tillage and where there was not the same reserve of fertility as in the case of the older grasslands. Because of that, the people best equipped, not merely from the point of view of knowledge, but of machinery and everything else, are suffering severe handicaps due to the lack of artificial manure. I urge that the matter should be vigorously pursued and that whatever experimental work is being carried on should be brought to a conclusion as early as possible.

I should like to draw the attention of the Taoiseach to the fact that nothing is being done in the way of any attempt to expand our potash resources. A certain amount has been done, and is being done, in the matter of winning potash from seaweed, but the production is negligible in relation to our requirements and no expansion is being effected. I wonder if any investigation is being made into the matter. Are there any sources of supply available other than seaweed or has the Bureau carried out any investigation whatever in that respect? I do not know how far the Bureau has helped to provide us with the small quantity of nitrate of ammonia available, but the amount available is very useful, and if an expansion of production could be brought about, it would be a tremendous asset in relation to food production next year. It is a fundamental matter to which I ask the Taoiseach to urge the Bureau to direct its special attention. Finally, I should like to know what facilities we have for training young scientific research workers and how they are recruited? I have had some inquiries with regard to the matter, and perhaps the Taoiseach could give the House some information about it.

Is dóigh liom gurb é seo an Meastachán is suimiúla a bhíonn á phlé sa Dáil agus cruthaíonn sé dhúinn go bhfuil eolaithe ag baint leis an mBureau seo, agus ag cabhrú leis, atá chomh cliste agus chomh gasta agus chomh héirimiúil agus atá le fáil in aon tír ar dhruim an domhain. Maidir leis an obair atá déanta ó cuireadh an Bureau ar bun, tá buíochas na tíre tuillte acu agus buíochas tuillte ag An Taoiseach toise an Bureau so a bhunú. Is léir go bhfuil a lán bun-abhar sa tír gur féidir feidhm do bhaint astu chun rudaí do chur ar fáil go bhfuil géarghá leo agus nach raibh ar fáil againn go dtí seo. Tá sé cruthaithe dhúinn, freisin, nach gá bheith ag brath ar an iasacht feasta agus go raibh rudaí annso againn i ngan fhios dúinn, a cheapamar ná beadh le fáil mara bhféadfaí a dtabhairt thar tír isteach. Níl mórán eile agam le rá ar an meastachan ach amháin go gceapaim go mba cheart an obair seo do choimeád ar siúl nuair a bheidh an cogadh thart. Tá cruthaithe dhúinn gur bhfiú an Bureau do chur ar bun agus, dar liomsa, ba cheart é chiomeád ar siúl agus é bhuanú tar éis an chogaidh. Beidh caoi níos fearr againn ná mar a bhí go dtí seo nuair a bheidh síocháin ann agus an gnáth-shaol ann arís ar an obair atá idir lámhaibh aige a chur chun críche níos fearr.

The question of the fixation of phosphates was raised by Deputy Hughes. Last year, I referred the matter to the Bureau, but I am not an expert and could not attempt to give any views on such matters. The value of the raising of these questions by Deputies is that any questions raised will be sent on to the Bureau and to the Department of Agriculture when they have reference to that particular Department. I understand that the Bureau has had a digest made of the information available on that question, and scientists appear to differ very widely on it. In fact, no definite conclusions can be drawn at present from the views published and expressed. With regard to the Clare phosphates, some field experiments are being carried out and it is possible that we shall be able to get some better information than is at present available, and any views which may be held by different members can be tested.

The Taoiseach appreciates that they are two separate things?

Yes. But the whole question of the fixation of phosphates would come in in any case. The question of the fixation of phosphates would probably be investigated side by side with the general examination of Clare phosphates. I do not know that we shall be able to get any distance with it. The Deputy must remember that the Bureau is an emergency Bureau which deals only with matters which fall directly within the emergency conditions.

We might make it permanent yet.

If there is good reason for it. It may not emerge in that precise form. There is in existence an Industrial Research Council and there will be a question of what permanent form that body should take. That will be considered in due course. A special research department for the Department of Agriculture has been suggested once or twice. The universities are doing a certain amount of that work. There is the Albert College, which was handed over to the universities at one stage. The question is whether it is necessary to add to that, and the particular way in which the addition should be made. I think the Minister for Agriculture has been giving considerable consideration to the matter. I could not at this stage give any definite information as to what will be done, but we are dealing here only with the Scientific Research Bureau which is definitely working within the conditions of the emergency.

I am glad that the House appreciates the work being done by it. I have personally come in contact with the members on a number of occasions, and I could not praise too highly the energy and devotion of those on the board and their helpers in respect of the work they have undertaken. We cannot appreciate to the full what they have done, and mention here and there of the various things gives but a very small idea of the work they have been doing. I know that they have been giving whole-heartedly of their time and energies to this work, and I am glad that they will have the satisfaction of knowing that the Dáil appreciates their efforts.

I asked the Taoiseach about the recruiting of research workers.

The Deputy I think refers to the long-term policy, and I think we had better leave that for the moment.

Vote put and agreed to.
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