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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 25 Apr 1945

Vol. 96 No. 23

Gárda Síochána Bill, 1945—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The Bill is intended to meet the need for more station sergeants and inspectors in the Gárda Síochána. I am satisfied that we require at once 14 more station sergeants and 18 more inspectors.

Section 5 (2) of the Police Forces Amalgamation Act, 1925, prescribes that the Gárda Síochána shall consist of such officers and men as the Government shall from time to time determine not exceeding the total number of officers and men respectively specified in the Third Schedule to the Act. In that Schedule the maximum strength of the rank of station sergeant is 44 and of the rank of inspector 60. The actual strengths of the two ranks have already reached those figures. It becomes necessary, therefore, to lift the statutory ceiling.

All the existing 44 station sergeants are serving in the Dublin Metropolitan Division. Three each are allocated to 14 stations: Kevin Street, Newmarket, Kilmainham, College Street, Lad Lane, Store Street, Fitzgibbon Street, Bridewell, Mountjoy, Donnybrook, Rathmines, Irishtown, Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock. There is one at Whitehall station, which was established in 1935, and one is divisional clerk at Dublin Castle. I am satisfied that Whitehall should have three station sergeants and that four stations which have none should also have three each. These stations are Sundrive Road, only opened recently, Clontarf, Terenure and Dalkey.

As regards the case for more inspectors, five of the 18 are wanted for the Dublin Metropolitan Division, two for headquarters and depôt and 11 for country divisions.

The present E District of the Dublin Metropolitan Division extends about five miles, from Ringsend to Inchicore. Its present population is 142,000, representing an increase of 35,000 since 1936. It is proposed to divide the district into two districts—one to include Sundrive Road, Crumlin and Terenure sub-districts, and the other Donnybrook, Irishtown and Rathmines subdistricts. The establishment of the new district will, by itself, mean an increase of three inspectors.

The B and C Districts of the Dublin Metropolitan Division comprise the main central city and port areas and almost half the crime of the division is referable to them. In each of these districts an extra inspector is badly needed for crime investigation, control of street offences and attendance at court. That brings the total of new inspectors for Dublin to five.

Of the two inspectors to be allocated to headquarters and the depôt, one is required for the Technical Bureau (Fingerprints and Criminal Registry) and the other to assist in the training of recruits who are now being taken on half-yearly in batches of 100 approximately.

Outside Dublin, the Commissioner estimates that to meet urgent needs an immediate increase of 11 inspectors is necessary. Two are required for Cork City and County. The remaining nine are to be allocated to divisions where relief is most urgently needed. The totals, after these additions have been made, will be: inspectors, 78; station sergeants, 58. The maximum figures provided for in the Bill are somewhat higher, 90 and 70, respectively. This is in order to provide some margin for possible future requirements—to avoid having to enact another Bill in order to get a few additional men of these ranks should they be required.

I understand that the Gárda promotion regulations were amended in 1943 by a Statutory Rule and Order, No. 303, which enables the Commissioner to promote members of the detective branch only. This Statutory Rule and Order is an amendment of Regulation 9 of the old regulations of 1925. I should like to direct the Minister's attention to the anomaly that exists in the case of certain sergeants serving in large stations throughout the State. I have in mind men in charge of stations like Galway, Sligo, Union Quay, Cork; Dundalk and the larger towns. They are the sole sergeants in charge of the stations and they have permanent responsibility for the station, whereas a similar sergeant in Dublin has his responsibility divided between three station sergeants. These men to whom I refer are so preoccupied with the duty of running these important stations that they have no time whatever to sit down and study for promotion examinations, or to benefit in any way by promotion as a result of competitive tests. I suggest that some consideration should be given to such men. I think they should be given the status of station sergeant. The Minister will know the cases I have in mind. I feel they are deserving of some special recognition and the Minister should avail of the opportunity to give them the recognition so long overdue. Many of them are near the end of their period of service in the force and will probably never have a chance of promotion.

There is another type of sergeant who should get consideration, that is, the public service vehicles inspector. There are very few of these men in the State, but in the post-war period they will have very important duties in relation to the supervision of traffic, public service vehicles and all matters relating to traffic on roads.

It seems as if that might have been raised on the Estimate rather than on this Bill.

I could not advocate it on the Estimate, because it is, in a sense, new legislation. We have the new legislation now.

The purpose of which is to increase the number of Guards.

I am suggesting that the Minister should avail of the opportunity to consider the case of these officers who are doing exceptionally important work. In Northern Ireland they have a head constable, a sergeant, and a constable with a car operating in each county in regard to traffic and public service vehicles. I do not say that that is general, but it is roughly the system in Northern Ireland. Here we have one public service inspector operating perhaps over two counties. The public service vehicle inspector for my own constituency is located in Waterford, and if an accident occurs or a serious traffic problem arises in North Kilkenny, the local Gárda have to depend on the services of the man in Waterford. These men have very important duties to perform, and, in addition, they have to qualify themselves as experts in all matters relating to motor traffic, bus traffic, and road traffic generally. I say that there is a case for the giving to these men of some status over and above that of the ordinary sergeant who merely performs the routine duties of a sergeant in a sub-district. I mention these cases particularly, as the Minister has given power to the Commissioner to promote members of the detective branch. I take it that it is not intended to promote members of the detective branch under this Bill?

Mr. Boland

All it does, as the Ceann Comhairle has pointed out, is to give authority to increase the number.

By giving himself authority to increase the number, the Minister has the right to promote existing members of the detective branch under the Statutory Rule and Order No. 303. I am not disputing the right of certain members of that branch to well-merited promotion, but I wish to point out that there is no provision made for these men who are serving in charge of important stations or for the public service vehicles inspectors who are rendering equally important duties of a different kind to the State.

The Chair fails to see how that question could not have been raised on the Estimate for the Minister's Department.

Because it would involve the matter of increasing the strength of station sergeants and inspectors. The House is now giving that right under this Bill: to increase the number of inspectors to a maximum of 90 and of station sergeants to 70. The Minister does not propose to go up to these maxima now. I suggest to him that he should consider the men that I have mentioned for inclusion—I do not say immediately. I do suggest that eventually they might receive recognition, because I am sure the Minister will agree that they are performing very important duties.

The Minister has not made any attempt to justify to the House the increases that he is asking for in this Bill. I suppose the increases are necessary, but one would expect that the Minister, when asking for an increase in the strength of the Gárda Síochána, would give the House reasons for the increase. The House has been asked to vote a substantial sum of money for this purpose, and, therefore, I think the Minister should tell the House what his policy and the policy of the Government is. He did make some slight reference to the matter. He said that he felt it was desirable to put even more responsibility on a police force in regard to work that is being done though the country by specialised people—by inspectors and others. A number of Deputies did advert to the fact that an increased amount of work is being put on the Gárdaí in the country. Is this Bill an indication of the Minister's policy that, apart from the normal police duties which are being carried out by the Gárdaí through the country, the inspectorial work which is carried out by them in regard to the collection of statistical information and so on is to be increased, and that the civilians employed by the State for any particular work are to be eliminated as far as possible? Is that the policy that is to be carried out in future—that more and more work of an inspectorial character is to be carried out by the Gárdaí? I was disappointed with the Minister's statement, because I think he should have been more frank with the House in telling us what the policy is to be in that respect. The Minister has indicated that there has been a substantial increase, over a period of years, in the strength of the Gárdaí. I think we are entitled to be told why the strength of different ranks is to be still further increased.

Mr. Boland

I do not think I ever said that there had been a substantial increase in the number of the Gárdaí. I have not the facts with me at the moment, but I will get them. The increase in the number of station sergeants is entirely due to the increased population in Dublin and to the increase in the number of stations. Deputies are aware that the Gárdaí are supposed to do an eight-hour day and that there are 24 hours in the day. In the big stations in Dublin there is always a station sergeant on duty. That accounts for the fact that an increased number of station sergeants is required. As regards the country, the number of inspectors was cut too fine. Anybody who knows anything about the work of the Gárda Síochána in the country must, I think, be aware that there was never really enough inspectors. Deputies, I am sure, are aware that inspectors have to relieve superintendents. If it were not for the fact that the number of inspectors was limited under the Act, I am sure the Commissioner would have increased the number of inspectors long ago. It is necessary that their number should be increased for the reasons I have stated and in order that discipline should be tightened up.

I do not think it is right to say that I was keeping any information back from the House. When the Estimate for my Department was before the House, this question of Guards was discussed at great length. I said then that the work done by the Gárdaí in the country—that is work outside ordinary police duties—was done very efficiently, and far more cheaply than it could otherwise be done. If that work is necessary, and the Government believe that it is, then I think you will not get it done better or cheaper by employing other kinds of inspectors to do it. The only other alternative would be to drop it altogether, and the Government are not prepared to do that. Personally, my opinion is that the best and cheapest way to get it done is to have it done by the Gárdaí. I think that if the Minister for Finance were to reconsider this whole question of the inspection work that is done through the country for different Departments, a good case would be made for having more of it done by the Gárdaí with probably better pay for them. Some Deputy said that the work could be done by a 50/- a week clerk. I do not agree with that at all. For work of that kind you want reliable men who know the job. I think that the Gárdaí are very useful and very reliable in the work they do in connection with the collection of statistics and so on. There is no question at all of a change of policy in this matter. The provisions in this Bill simply supply what one may describe as a long felt want. In one area in Dublin the population has increased by 36,000 since 1936. That area has had to be divided into two. Therefore, I say there was really a need for these increases. I take it that Deputy Coogan agrees that the proposal with regard to detective officers is only fair.

I agree.

Mr. Boland

I do not know what to say with regard to the Deputy's other proposal, but I will discuss it with the Commissioner. The present method with regard to promotions to the rank of sergeant and inspector is popular with the Gárdaí. I do not know if there would be any resentment if that method were dispensed with. Generally, on that matter, I will discuss it with the Commissioner and see if he will be prepared to accept the suggestion that has been made. In view of that I am not prepared to make any statement on it. The Deputy is aware that the control of the Gárdaí is vested in the Commissioner. As I have said, I will see what he has to say on it. The number of ordinary Guards is 5,800. That number has not changed very much over a number of years although, as I have said, there was a need for an increase.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 2nd May, 1945.
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