Long ago such a Department should have succumbed to the accumulated consequences of its, more or less, catastrophic errors. However, it is still in existence and, in spite of all the criticisms, it is, in my belief, doing its job as well as any human organisation could do it in very adverse circumstances.
Last night a matter was raised here to which, before I take up the various criticisms made by Deputies, I should like to refer. That is my refusal to see a deputation. Deputy Flanagan, Deputy Davin and Deputy O'Higgins were very wroth about it. Now, the position of a Deputy, as I see it, is an honourable and responsible one.
A Deputy has certain rights and privileges which Ministers and Departments should recognise and which Deputies should very jealously preserve. Among those rights is the right, within reason, to get an opportunity of discussing with a particular Minister a matter of concern for the Deputy's constituency or of the public interest. In relation to this deputation, I met Deputy O'Higgins here in Leinster House and he told me he had certain criticisms to make in regard to Land Commission activities in his constituency. He said he was anxious to meet me. I informed Deputy O'Higgins that he could meet me at any time and that arrangement still stands.
A year ago, however, Deputy Flanagan came along to me and asked me to see a deputation from his constituency in regard to the sale of an estate with which he disagreed. I pointed out to him that there was really nothing I could do in the matter of which he spoke. I pointed out to him that, even if it were a matter for the Land Commission, it was not a matter for the Minister; but in the existing circumstances it was neither a matter for the Minister nor for the Land Commission. After discussion, Deputy Flanagan agreed that that was so and agreed that it would be merely a waste of time if I had met that deputation. He went on another tack then and he said: "There is a house in that estate that I would be most anxious to have preserved; it might be constructed into a hospital or a sanatorium; I would like you to discuss that matter with me." I said: "Very well." The deputation came, but there was no mention of a house. The whole discussion took place in regard to the sale of the lands, which Deputy Flanagan and I agreed beforehand was not a matter in which the Land Commission or the Minister should intervene. This deputation was a costly one. It brought a number of men up from Laoighis and Offaly, at a waste of time and money, yet as a result of that deputation nothing effective of any kind could be done.
Deputy Flanagan was not satisfied. He raised this matter by way of question in the Dáil afterwards. He further raised it on the Adjournment the same evening and did his best, in the Adjournment Debate, to impress on the Dáil that I was not doing my duty in regard to the work of the Land Commission in his constituency. A Deputy's position in this House is a responsible one, an honourable one. We should jealously preserve a Deputy's rights, so that we might bring respect on this House. If a Deputy has rights, he also has duties, and when a Deputy wilfully misrepresents me, very definitely I will refuse to meet him in a deputation.
The facts are not as Deputy Davin put them. I did not say that no useful purpose would be served by the deputation. I refused point blank to see Deputy Flanagan. Deputies will find that, as far as I can be helpful in the office I hold, I am more than willing to be of help to each of them. They will find me more than approachable and in every way obliging, irrespective of what point of view they represent; but I think that I am entitled to the respect which my office demands. It always has been the rule in the Land Commission that there shall not be political interference with its work. In the 1933 Act, with the insertion of Section 6, the present Government made that rule still more specific and still more binding. Deputies should be familiar with Section 6 of the Land Act of 1933; they should familiarise themselves with its terms and there would be less pretence then about the question of the division of lands and the suggestion that their division and allotment everywhere throughout the country are in the hands of the Fianna Fáil clubs.
Deputy O'Higgins, very wroth, referred to a speech I made at a Fianna Fáil convention some years ago. Now, members of every Party here— National Labour, Labour, Farmers, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil—are all familiar with the nature of political conventions. They know they cannot hand-pick the delegates, they cannot choke them off; they know that statements are made at every type of convention which responsible officers of a Party have to meet. In defending the correctness of the Land Commission attitude, in defending the inspectors of the Land Commission, in defending the existence of Section 6 of the Land Act of 1933, I used certain words. I have been criticised in my own constituency by supporters of my own for using those words.
Naturally every word a Minister uses is liable to be misinterpreted and misrepresented. A very famous French statesman, when he became a Minister of State, pointed out that Ministers were fair game for abuse, misrepresentation, slander and libel, that it was part of the perquisites of his office. I do not mind abuse or misrepresentation when it comes meaninglessly from Deputy Dillon or wilfully and bitterly from a member of the Labour Party. However, I said on that occasion in the Mansion House that the business of the Land Commission, as far as land division was concerned, was to create farms and to put farmers in possession of them.
When an attack was made on inspectors of the Land Commission and when they were accused of political bias, I guaranteed that the political affiliations of any suitable applicant for land would not debar him from consideration by the Land Commission. That is what I said. I am quite satisfied that that represents my viewpoint; I do not care how it is misrepresented. Charges are often made against inspectors of the Land Commission that they are politically biased. They are not confined to the Fine Gael Party or to the Labour Party. I hear them from my own Party time and again. Land Commission inspectors are like every other body. They cannot all be perfect. Some of them may not be as wise in their generation as others. Deputy Flanagan mentioned a Land Commission inspector who was sent down to Laoighis-Offaly to him as secretary of a Fianna Fáil club, to get instructions as to how estates should be divided in Laoighis-Offaly. If we have an inspector in the Land Commission that would go to Deputy Flanagan for advice on any subject, I would like to know him, because I would like to sack him. The Ceann Comhairle has made a ruling here that we must not utilise certain words, botanical and ichthyological. In America they have a saying: "Barnum was right." The reason the Americans say Barnum was right is because Barnum said: "There is a sucker born every minute, and I keep my eyes skinned for him." If Barnum was over here we would say Barnum was wrong: they are born oftener. In American coastal waters there is an abundance of fish and there is one particular fish which small boys love to angle for. He will take their bait, a piece of an old boot, a piece of a shirt tail or even the opinion of Deputy Dillon or Deputy Flanagan. I would not attempt, in view of your ruling, Sir, to refer to Deputy Flanagan by the name of any fish but certainly, he is so capable of accepting any official statement that his mental mouth must be as wide open as the mouth of that American fish to which I refer, and he comes along and expects that we belong to the same finny tribe, that every statement he makes here must willy-nilly be swallowed by every single member of the Dáil.
I will not leave America for the moment and I am drawn to refer to America because so many Deputies, like Deputy Hughes and Deputy Cogan, have been urging experts in American farming methods, and so and so, on us. I do not understand the Laoighis-Offaly mentality. It seems to me that Laoighis-Offaly must be the Irish Kentucky — a dark and bloody ground. In my constituency we are a tough crowd; we are good fighters and in elections or elsewhere we can put up a very pretty scrap, but when an election is over, Deputy McAuliffe, Deputy Skinner, Deputy Halliden and I are quite very good friends. We are not always suspicious of every word and action of those who are opposed to us politically but in Laoighis-Offaly it seems to me we have year after year a continued scrap here in the Dáil as to what a particular Deputy has done, how he has offended against the beliefs or morals of another and, incidentally, if they merely took their own scalps, mine would feel safe, but they start taking mine. I refused to see the deputation for the reasons stated. It has been said that then, having refused to meet the Deputies, I met a Fianna Fáil county councillor. Certainly I did not meet a Fianna Fáil county councillor. I met nobody in relation to the matter or I met nobody in relation to any other matter in Laoighis-Offaly and the only deputation I ever received was the one sponsored by Deputy Flanagan last year, which is the cause of the trouble.
I hope that Deputies will regard what I have said in the matter of the deputation as a full, frank and fair explanation and will accept my assurance of my desire to be helpful to Deputies of any Party, accessible to them and respectful to them.
I will not make any botanical or other reference to Deputy Blowick but Deputy Blowick's statement sets the tenor of the whole debate. He spoke like the man who knew Coolidge, and gave us quite a lot of stuff about the slackness of the Land Commission in regard to correspondence. Deputy Flanagan, with his usual honesty, got up and completely exploded the statement made by Deputy Blowick. In the period mentioned by Deputy Blowick, we received in the Land Commission 61 letters from him. Thirty-nine were applications or recommendations of applications for land and turbary and all of these were acknowledged in the usual way. Nothing further than an acknowledgment can be sent or will be sent in reply to such communications. Deputies will understand why. All the applications for land and turbary made by Deputy Blowick are noted, considered and investigated and they cannot be made the subject of correspondence. In 18 instances, his letters of another kind were fully answered.
