This is one of those Bills which legislate by reference. I understand that the reference to the Third Schedule of the Act of 1925 has to do with the procedure connected with promotion. Is not that so?
Committee on Finance. - Gárda Síochána Bill, 1945—Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."
Mr. Boland
It has reference merely to the number who may be employed as station sergeants and inspectors, not to the methods of promotion.
It does provide for the positive promotion of certain persons who could not otherwise be promoted, because we are increasing the number of station sergeants and inspectors who can be appointed. In that connection, I should be glad if the Minister would deal with this point: I understand that the procedure for promotion now is that persons desirous of promotion must submit themselves for examination and that a variety of subjects is prescribed for that examination, one of which is Irish. When the State was instituted, to put on the uniform of the Gárda Síochána was a very dangerous thing to do and the State was very glad to have at its disposal a body of men who were prepared to put on that uniform, go out to the remotest part of the country in an atmosphere of civil war without arms in their hands, and put through the immensely difficult task of establishing an unarmed police force in this country. Many of them paid for doing that work with their lives. The families of many of them suffered much affliction as a result of the devotion to duty of these men who were enrolled in the years 1922, 1923 and 1924. A large percentage of these men have now attained to the rank of sergeant.
The Deputy realises that the procedure to be followed for promotion does not arise. The section deals with an increase in the number who may be promoted.
Quite, but the fact is that the section enables the Minister to appoint a considerable number of additional inspectors in the force.
But the procedure in so promoting them does not arise. That is a matter for the Estimate surely?
If he is about to appoint them surely we are entitled to inquire how the Minister is going to go about the work? Suppose we knew that he was going to call in a number of young men and make them inspectors, I suggest that we would have a right to demur on the ground that these persons are not suitable for such appointments. My apprehension is that that is what is going to happen, that a number of fellows, good fellows, who have come into the Guards comparatively recently are going to get all the promotions to these additional inspectorships and that the senior men who have done yeoman service may, owing to the conditions attaching to the promotions intended, be effectively barred from getting their fair share of them. I believe that it is only necessary to direct the attention of the Minister to this possible anomaly in order to get him to rectify it and I want to suggest that whatever plan he has for choosing the persons whom he proposes to appoint under his additional powers in Section 2 paragraph (a)——
The powers of the Commissioner — the Minister does not promote.
I am putting it to the Commissioner through the Minister that the persons he should promote under paragraph (a) of Section 2 are persons whose efficiency in the discharge of their duty and knowledge of police procedure entitle them to promotion and that there will not be required from them proficiency in some academic subject, such as Irish, which will effectively bar men who have given long years of service and effectively give preferment to those who, from the point of view of the force, have given virtually none. Would the Minister be kind enough to tell us whether he has that problem in mind and whether the Commissioner will have an opportunity of advancing men who were recruited in the early days of the force if, in his discretion, he believes it desirable to do so?
The section, as I understand it, contemplates the promotion of a number of sergeants to the rank of inspector and a number of men to the rank of station sergeant, mainly in the Dublin area.
I so stated on Second Reading.
Unfortunately, I was unable to be present then but I understand that these appointments are to be made mainly in the Dublin area. I want to draw the attention of the Minister to the position of station sergeants in large towns throughout the country. These men have given long and faithful service. They have discharged their duties in an exemplary fashion but, owing to the onerous nature of the duties that they have had to carry out, they were unable to study for examinations. I understand that it is intended to promote a number of men without examination in one branch of the force.
Mr. Boland
In the detective branch.
The Commissioner need only be satisfied that such men have a satisfactory record and that they are capable of discharging the duties of the rank to which they will be promoted. I would ask the Minister to give consideration also to the claims of these other men, station sergeants in some of the big towns throughout the country. Because of the very heavy duties they have had to carry out, more especially since the emergency, they have not had an opportunity of studying for examinations. So long as the Commissioner is satisfied as to their police record—and I believe that in the majority of cases they have a very satisfactory record of police duties—I suggest that he should consider their claims to promotion. I should like to get some promise from the Minister that the claims of these men will not be overlooked.
To supplement some of the criticism offered by Deputy Dillon, I should like to know from the Minister what qualifications will entitle a man to consideration, quite apart altogether from academic subjects such as Irish or other subjects. There is this to be said about the men who entered the service 22 years ago. They had no opportunity during that period of studying the ordinary subjects that are to be set in the ordinary Civil Service examination. In the old R.I.C. days, there was a Civil Service examination known as the "P" examination, and a certain percentage of vacancies as sergeants, constables, etc., was reserved for these men, but seniority was not forgotten. Will the question of seniority enter into these promotions to some extent? After all, there is something more than academic degrees required to quell a row, for instance. It is not the young recruit who possesses a B.Comm. or a B.A. degree who is the most successful in that direction. A certain proportion of the police force, at least, will be required to put down civil commotion, and it does not follow that because a man was capable of securing a university degree that he will be equally capable of arresting some hooligan. I do hope that when the Minister formulates a policy, which of course will be carried out by the Chief Commissioner, he will have some regard to the record of the men who joined the force 22 or 23 years ago. It would be a very poor reward for us to suggest that these men should be put on a par with the young lads who have only just left school. I commend that suggestion to the Minister for his serious consideration, because I feel that a very serious injustice will be done to these men if a certain proportion of the vacancies for sergeants and inspectors are not reserved for senior men with satisfactory service. The vacancies so reserved may number only 25 or 30, but in any case it would be some gesture on the part of the Government indicating that they have not forgotten the service given by those men for the last 22 or 23 years.
Can the Minister say if the statement made by Deputy Dillon is not a gross exaggeration, and a reflection on many people, when he suggested that many of those who went out to form an unarmed police force, under difficult circumstances, suffered for their zeal with their lives? Is not that an exaggeration?
That is so.
On the Second Reading the Minister promised to look into this matter. There is a feeling of uneasiness in the force, perhaps not too well founded, and it would be well for the Minister to assure the Guards, through the House, that there is no intention of giving all promotions that are now made possible to members of the detective branch. I do not want to suggest to the Minister that members of the detective branch, who have for a number of years performed very dangerous duties, are not very well deserving of promotion but, as I pointed out on the Second Reading, the Minister appears under Emergency Powers Order No. 303 to be in a position to promote members of the detective branch only, and because of that there is a feeling that, when the Minister gets authority to increase the number of inspectors and station sergeants, all promotions will, by virtue of the Order, go to members of the detective branch.
I put the case that has been put by Deputy Dillon, by Deputy Anthony and by Deputy Roddy to-day, that a number of sergeants over a very long period have been rendering very great service to the State. Many of these men are in charge of very large stations for which they have permanent responsibility. In some of these stations there may be as many as four or five sergeants and, perhaps, 100 men. Take Union Quay, Cork. No district officer in the State has the responsibility of the sergeant in charge there. There are other stations, not as large as Union Quay, at Tralee, Dundalk and Galway, where the men in charge are very busy. They have been in charge for a number of years, and are so busy that they have not had time to study for promotion in literary and professional subjects. It would be only fair to them that they should be given the rank of station sergeant in certain cases, and if some of them were earmarked for promotion to the rank of inspector. That is what is but due to these men, many of whom are now reaching the retiring age, or have only a few more years to serve. It would be but the barest recognition to give them well-deserved promotion. If the Minister can assure the House that there is no intention of giving all vacancies to the detective branch, I am sure it will allay the feeling that is abroad.
Mr. Boland
In answer to Deputy Coogan, I wish to say that there is no question of giving all promotions to the detective branch. I think Deputies are confused about what happened. It was not an Emergency Powers Order but a promotion regulation enabling the Commissioner to promote some members of the detective force for the reason that he was satisfied they had not sufficient time to study. That is only possible under the regulation in the case of members of the detective force. This Bill provides for the appointment of station sergeants and inspectors who will be promoted in the usual way after examination. I promised Deputy Coogan that I would consider the matter with the Commissioner, but I have not had an opportunity of doing so yet. All we are asking for here is for permission to increase the numbers. As to the personnel, I would have to go into that. On the face of it, it appears to be a question of promoting sergeants in charge of stations. I have to consult with the Commissioner as it is not the Minister has the making of promotions. That is for the Commissioner. There are two sets of questions and examinations. I am sure that there are numbers of Guards who passed the examination for sergeants, and sergeants who have passed for station sergeants, and others for inspectors, who will be very much disappointed if a change is made now, which will affect their prospects. That is the position. The promotions will be made in the ordinary way by examination. There is no question of confining them to the detective branch. If there is to be a departure to provide for station sergeants who may not pass the written examination, there will have to be a further amendment of the promotion regulation. I shall look into the matter.
Can the Minister tell us the subjects?
Mr. Boland
Irish, English, police duties and arithmetic. I do not know if Deputy Dillon approves of Irish.
Is Irish obligatory?
Mr. Boland
I think so. As to seniority, it is not the senior men as such will get first place in the examination. I think that is a good principle. After all, a man might be senior but might not be very good otherwise. We cannot expect the Commissioner to promote a man because he is a long time in the force. The man who gets first place in the examination is called first. I think that is fair. As to the other people, on the face of it, there appears to be a case, but I am not committing myself to anything.
Far from being opposed to Irish, whatever anybody says in this House, I want to say that I am one of the most strenuous supporters of the Irish revival in Dáil Éireann, but I am against the type of Irish that is being presented to our people as an instrument of injustice and oppression. Hundreds of men joined the Civic Guards when men were badly wanted. I go no further than that, as I do not want any contention about this question. They are decent men, who have done their work to the best of their ability and, in substance, have given ample satisfaction. I do not ask the Minister for Justice to take upon his shoulders responsibility for cutting across Government policy in respect to the Irish language, but I ask him this: Will he not go this far to meet us, and say that, while Irish is to be a compulsory subject, it shall be a compulsory subject for no sergeant who entered the Civic Guards prior to 1935, and allow men who entered before 1935 to offer Irish or English? If the Minister likes he could then, for the information of others, state that any man entering the Gárda Síochána must realise that to attain the rank of sergeant an examination in Irish must be passed. It is manifestly unfair to tell a man who entered the Civic Guards 22 years ago, who did not know Irish, who was never told that he would be required to pass an examination in Irish, and who has not had time as a result of his duties to learn Irish, that he might abandon all hope of advancement in his professional career. That is not just, and the more things of that character that are done in the name of the Irish language, the more will the Irish language be made to stink in the nostrils of every decent man. If you are going to make the Irish language a filthy instrument of oppression, if you are going to make it the means whereby men are to be denied their rights, in order that these rights may be handed over to others, who have not the same legitimate claims, then every decent citizen will rise up to sweep the whole policy of that misuse of Irish out of existence. I feel strongly about this, not only on account of the possible injustice that might be done to decent men, but because I feel that it is a wicked injury to the language movement.
Nobody who really loves the language wants to see it used for purposes of that kind and the Minister may make a most valuable gesture in the direction of correcting that impression if he will undertake to look into the question of fixing such a year as, say, 1935, and say that a person who entered the Gárda force before that date can offer either English or Irish but those entering thereafter must know that Irish will be compulsory in any promotion examination for which they wish to enter.
I am glad that the Minister is going to bring to the notice of the Commissioner the claims of the station sergeants that I mentioned a moment ago but the Minister did say that that might interfere with the promotion of men who passed the examination.
Mr. Boland
It could do that.
I wish to draw the Minister's attention to this fact, that the number of station sergeants in the position that I have indicated is very small. Probably there are not more than half a dozen of them. If these men had been sent to small country stations they would have had ample time to study and the probability is that they would have passed the examination long since, but they were sent to big stations, where, on account of the nature of their duties, they were unable to study. Surely in these circumstances their claims deserve special consideration. The fact that they were sent to such stations placed them at a considerable disadvantage in comparison with sergeants in charge of small country stations. I would ask the Minister to bear in mind that aspect of their claim and to represent it to the Commissioner. I do think that in justice these men have a special case and even assuming that the examination list is interfered with, it will be interfered with on only one occasion and I think it would be well worth while and morally justifiable to interfere with the examination lists for the sake of doing justice to men whose claims certainly warrant promotion, in my opinion, at least.
Before the Minister replies, I wish to clear any misconception that may have arisen in his mind in respect of seniority. I quite appreciate, and I agree with him, that the competitive system is a useful and a good system, because we have nothing else to substitute for it. I am more concerned, not with the men who have already reached sergeant's rank or inspector's rank, but with the ordinary rank-and-file of the Gárda Síochána. I want to know will the Minister discuss with the Commissioner the advisability, if not the desirability, of reserving a certain percentage of appointments from Gárda Síochána to the rank even of sergeant for men who have given long service and who have proved themselves efficient policemen, that word "efficient" being translated not as it would by the academicians but in the sense that he knows his police duties even though he may not be able to commit them all to paper as a boy who has just completed his leaving examination might be able to do, and that he is able to do his duties in the ordinary way; that he is a useful man to quell a row. It has been said on many occasions, not only in the House, but outside, that the best policemen that this country ever produced, who served in the police forces in this country and abroad, were the sons of small farmers of this country. Their physique was equal to anything any other country could produce and they were regarded as the finest policemen in the world. We have men of that type in the Gárda Síochána who, possibly, under present circumstances, will never get promotion. For that reason, I would ask the Minister to discuss with the Commissioner who, I am sure, will be sympathetic, the possibility of having a certain number of vacancies—which the Commissioner, in his wisdom, may prescribe—from Gárda to, say, sergeant, reserved for men who have given good police service.
I am satisfied with the Minister's assurance that he will take up these cases with the Commissioner. I want to make the position clear. Deputy Anthony seems to be under a misapprehension. The Commissioner already has power to promote men of the type that Deputy Anthony has in mind to the sergeant rank without examination of the type we are discussing. He can reserve 25 per cent. of the vacancies in the rank of sergeant in any year for such men.
Does it say "shall" or "may"?
I cannot remember that.
Mr. Boland
Deputy Coogan is right. He can do that.
I do not think it is absolutely obligatory for him, but 25 per cent. of promotions in any year from the rank of Gárda to sergeant may be reserved for the men that he has in mind. On the question of Irish, Irish has been a subject in the Gárda Síochána literary examinations since the literary examinations were established years and years ago. There are three classes of examinations, Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3. Class 3 is for the guard to sergeant rank; Class 2 is for the station sergeant rank; Class 1 is for all higher ranks. These are merely what might be described as qualifying examinations to ensure that the candidates seeking promotion to the various grades have the literary qualifications for the particular rank. They have nothing whatever to do with promotion proper and the candidate may have an M.A. degree—as has been the case—and yet be ineligible for promotion in the police sense. I do not want to confuse the two issues. I do not think that any hardship is being inflicted at the moment on any member of the force in having to undergo an examination in Irish because that examination has been there for, I am sure, almost 20 years.
Mr. Boland
I think Deputy Coogan has answered for me. Since I became Minister for Justice there have been several promotions to higher rank of men at the age of 50 years, who had no Irish. That did not debar them. Deputy Coogan has explained that the Commissioner has power to reserve 25 per cent. of the vacancies in the rank of sergeant. I have promised to go into the other question that was raised with the Commissioner, that is, the reservation of a certain number of vacancies. It may get over the whole difficulty about Irish, but we are not going to depart from the policy of having Irish as a subject. In the case of older men, there may be a case for reserving a certain number; he may have regard to the fact that some might not be as competent as others. I do not think there will be any hardship.
I take that undertaking in the spirit in which the Minister gives it, that there cannot be any actual departure from the policy of having Irish as a subject, but that, in so far as it is possible, within the regulations, to avoid victimising a deserving senior officer, the Commissioner will be encouraged to exercise a prudent discretion.
Mr. Boland
That has been done.
I accept that.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 3 and the Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment.
Agreed to take remaining stages now.
Bill received for final consideration and passed.