Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 17 May 1945

Vol. 97 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 62—Wireless Broadcasting.

Mr. Little

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £57,063 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1946, for Salaries and other Expenses in connection with Wireless Broadcasting (No. 45 of 1926), including Public Concerts.

The Estimate for the broadcasting service for the current financial year 1945/46 is £85,663, an increase of £4,970 on the provision for last year. The main increases are under sub-heads A and F which are up by £2,890 and £1,585 respectively. The increase under sub-head A is due mainly to the definitive transfer of certain officers to the broadcasting service whose salaries were formerly borne on the Vote for their parent Departments as they were only on loan to broadcasting; to increased bonus payments and additions to the staff. Under sub-head F an additional sum is provided for engineering equipment of which it is expected that it will be possible to obtain supplies this year. An increase of £400 under sub-head B is due mainly to increased payments of performing right fees. Variations under the other sub-heads are of a minor nature.

Revenue from wireless licences for the financial year ended 31st March last amounted to approximately £107,000 and from advertisements to approximately £3,700—a total of £110,700. This represents a decrease of about £600 on the revenue for the previous year, due mainly to a slight falling off in the number of licences held by listeners.

I estimate that revenue for the current year will be £110,200. The total expenditure, including expenditure by other Departments on services rendered to broadcasting, is estimated at £114,038. There is, therefore, a small estimated deficit of £3,838.

The total number of licences current on 31st March, 1945, was 170,514, which represents a decrease of 1,528 on the figure for the corresponding date in 1944. With the prospect that more plentiful supplies of batteries and, possibly, wireless sets and parts will become available this year it is likely that the number of licences will shortly be again on the upgrade.

The Broadcasting Advisory Committee, which was reconstituted early in 1944 has given very valuable assistance and advice in regard to the many questions which have come before it and I am indebted to the members for the great interest they have shown in the work of the committee and the time they have devoted to it.

I am glad to say that the Radio Éireann Orchestra, which is the mainstay of our musical programmes, continues to win high approval for its performance of a very wide range of musical works. The public symphony concerts are proving more popular than ever. Some years ago, when the concerts were first contemplated, it was believed that an audience of about 600 people was the most that could be expected. Now we have reached the stage where we have an attendance of 1,800 people at most of the concerts. This continuing and growing interest in symphonic music shows that public taste is on a much higher level than many would have had us believe. To the conductor and orchestra is due a special tribute for the excellence of their performances which has made the concerts so successful.

The Radio Éireann Choir of 24 singers, which was established in 1943, is making steady progress and extending its repertoire. A programme of songs in Irish and English was given monthly last year, and the choir collaborated with the orchestra in a notable performance of the "Mozart Twelfth Mass".

Radio Éireann is, as heretofore, doing a great deal to assist and encourage musical organisations outside Dublin and throughout the country. Where a committee is willing to organise a first-class concert and to engage the best artists available Radio Éireann relays portion of the concert at a specially high fee. In this way the public in towns outside Dublin are enabled to hear excellent concerts which otherwise could not be provided.

Special attention is being given to the fostering of Irish music and composers are commissioned to prepare arrangements of traditional Irish airs, etc.

The more important concerts given in the country during the year were relayed and we hope to continue and extend this practice.

Our running commentaries on football, hurling, racing and other sports have been continued as usual and have a very large and wide popularity. The director has been keeping in close touch with the controlling authorities of the Gaelic Athletic Association, of racing and of sports generally, and we hope in the future to be able to arrange for an increase in the number of these broadcasts.

Our news department has for some time past been at a disadvantage owing to vacancies occurring on the reporting staff which we have not yet found it possible to fill. A complete reorganisation of our news staff has recently been approved and the Civil Service Commission is making arrangements for the filling of the approved posts. It is expected that the new staffing arrangements will be completed at an early date.

As regards the Irish language, our policy prior to last year had been to put before listeners programmes in Irish as interesting and as well produced as the programmes in English —but not to broadcast formal lessons. For listeners whose Irish was not fluent, special features, including short stories in simple Irish, were provided, and a weekly programme entitled "Is Your Irish Rusty?" continues to cater for this class. It consists of the slow reading and translation of passages from short stories and sketches from a set book, an explanation being given of difficult words and phrases.

During last year much thought was given to the question of making the utmost possible use of radio in the drive for the revival of Irish. Representatives of most of the bodies directly concerned with the movement had frequent consultations with the Director and staff of Radio Éireann and, after full discussion by the Broadcasting Advisory Committee, it was decided to broadcast a series of direct lessons for beginners or for those with little knowledge of Irish. The teaching of a language by radio is, of course, no easy task and in preparation for this particular series, the Broadcasting Advisory Committee and the Department of Education collaborated with the station in determining the form of the instruction. The lessons called "Listen and Learn" began on Friday, 2nd March, 1945, and have been an outstanding success from the outset. We have evidence that they are being listened to with close attention all over the country by all classes of people and are, indeed, competing with "Question Time" for the position of the most popular programme from Radio Éireann. I am confident that the lessons will greatly assist many people to learn Irish who, for one reason or another, had not had an opportunity of doing so and were reluctant to attend formal classes. I might repeat, however, that the teaching or the learning of a language over the radio is a most difficult task and suggest that, where classes are available, listeners should supplement the broadcast lessons by attending them.

The principal regular features of Radio Éireann—"Question Time,""Information Please,""Radio Digest," and "Round the Fire"—continue to earn wide approval. Among programmes in Irish, "An Treimhseachan Teann," which is the counterpart of the "Radio Digest", is specially popular, while the recently started "Ceist agam ort," a programme resembling "Information Please," appears to be going very well.

The plays broadcast in 1944 included works by representative Irish dramatists as well as some by foreign authors. The Abbey and Longford Players again presented a number of plays on Sunday evenings which were much appreciated by listeners. There were numerous dramatisations of the lives of outstanding figures in Irish history including Edmund Ignatius Rice, Patrick Pearse, Jonathan Swift and one to mark the third centenary of The Four Masters.

In introducing the Broadcasting Estimate last year I remarked on the number of helpful letters received by the Director of Broadcasting from listeners who had constructive criticism and suggestions to offer. The number of such letters is growing and they are of great assistance to the Director and Programme Officers in assessing public interest in various types of programmes. The director welcomes such letters and every criticism and suggestion put forward in them receives careful consideration.

It is obviously impossible to discuss programme features here in any detail and I would ask Deputies, therefore, with a view to a constructive debate, to confine their remarks, so far as possible, to the broad principles which Radio Éireann is following.

Mr. Hughes

I have not very much to say on this Vote. There are just one or two points to which I should like to call the Minister's attention. I think it can be said that, in certain respects, the programme from Radio Éireann has improved and is continuing to improve. I agree with the Minister that the concerts, and I would say in particular, the plays are excellent. The music is occasionally good too. I should like if the Minister would tell the House exactly how the news items are obtained. The Minister told us that there are difficulties at the moment owing to vacancies on the reporting staff. It appears to me that the news we get is merely a repetition of the B.B.C. to a very great extent. If we are paying reporters for news items, I do not think they serve very much purpose because what we get is a repetition of the B.B.C.

One thing I want to draw the Minister's attention to is that there was a very useful item introduced five or six years ago into the programme here, namely, talks on agriculture. When we bear in mind that our main activity in this country is agriculture and, particularly, when we appreciate the importance of expanding our production and the fact that the Minister for Supplies has directed our attention to the necessity of ensuring that we expand production and exports for exchange purposes, I think that the radio is an instrument that could be used from an educational point of view to a far greater extent. No improvement has been effected in that particular item. There are many eminent scientists and research workers here whom I have never heard speak over the wireless. Some of the broadcasts on that particular item have not been very satisfactory. I should like to say to the Minister that the people living in rural Ireland, especially during the winter period, have not many distractions so far as pictures and that kind of thing are concerned and, in catering for the agricultural community by way of agricultural talks, you are catering for a substantial percentage of the listeners and, nationally, you are doing very good work if talks on that all-important matter are properly prepared and the right type of people called to the microphone. I want to say emphatically that there is room for very substantial improvement there. I do not want to elaborate very much on the matter, and I am sure the Minister and the Government appreciate as much as I do that it ought to be used much more and that the subject matter ought to be presented in such a manner that it will be attractive and will be listened to. I can assure the Minister that it would be listened to with great attention if the right people were brought in, men of authority and men who can give very useful and practical information and disseminate knowledge in a very simple way by the use of the radio. As I said, certain items in the programme have improved substantially; they were very pleasant to listen in to. But in this particular respect there has not been any improvement. I believe there is room for improvement. Certainly there is a great opportunity for utilising the radio more for the advantage of our primary industry. I hope the Minister will pay personal attention to that matter, get a proper programme out and get the right people, people whose advice every one can accept without question. As I said before, we have research workers and scientists who have kept abreast of the times, but I must say I have never heard them over the air. I hope more attention will be paid to that and that a greater effort will be made to improve that particular item on the programme.

Mr. Byrne

I only want to ask if the Minister has anything to say about television.

Mr. Corish

I want to congratulate the Minister on the improvement that has taken place in Radio Éireann in the last 12 months. The Minister has referred at length to the presentation of symphony concerts. They have certainly raised the tone of the station and given our people a taste for decent music. I welcome the fact that they have cut out a lot of the jazz music from Continental countries and from America, because that was ruining our people's taste for music. If that had been continued, certainly we would have had very few decent musicians or singers in this country within a very short period. As I said, the symphony concerts are certainly very interesting, occurring as they do in the winter months when people are at home.

Now, I want to refer to a matter that I have been referring to for a number of years, namely, the question of news, especially during the emergency. I want to emphasise what Deputy Hughes has said. During the whole war period we have had nothing but a rehash of the English news on the war. If we want to hear news of the war, we get it at 6 o'clock from the B.B.C. At 6.40 we tune into Radio Éireann and get the very same news that we got from the English station 40 minutes before. If there is any interesting Irish news, we have to wait until the English news is sent through before we can hear the Irish news. Surely if it is necessary to let us have a rehash of what we heard from the British station, the least we might expect is that the Irish news should be given first. I really think that that ought to be the policy of the Minister and that it ought not to be necessary for any Deputy to prompt the Minister to let us have the Irish news through the medium of our own station at the beginning of the news. As a matter of fact, recently we have had no Irish news at all. One wonders, when the war is completely over, including the Japanese War, what news we will get through the medium of Radio Éireann. Surely there are some interesting items that could be given to the Irish people through the medium of our own radio. Now that the war in Europe is over, what news are they going to give to the people here?

Again referring to the question of news—I have referred to this every year for a considerable time—when we do get Irish news, almost invariably the first thing we hear on the radio is: An Taoiseach said this and An Taoiseach said that; or the Minister for Industry and Commerce said this, or the Minister for Industry and Commerce said that. Surely it is not too much to ask that, when a Deputy puts a question to a Minister or to An Taoiseach in this House, that person's name should be given. We hear it stated that the Minister for Agriculture made a statement with regard to so-and-so. Nobody knows that that was in reply to a question asked by a Deputy. That Deputy's constituents are entitled to know that he put a particular question to a Minister and that the Minister did not make the statement in the Dáil on his own. I think it is only fair that the Minister should see that that is done in future. I must say that within the last year Deputies have got a pretty fair show in the reports from Radio Éireann in so far as the proceedings of this House are concerned, but I would urge strongly that the Minister should see to it that, when a Deputy asks a question in the Dáil, he shall get the credit for asking that question and that all the kudos, if there is any kudos in it, will not be given to the Minister who answers the question and who would not have made such a statement only for the fact that a Deputy asked the question. I do not think there is anything unreasonable in asking that that should be done.

For years I have been asking what will be done about the Wexford area. The Minister was good enough to send an inspector there on two occasions. On the last occasion he told me that nothing could be done. The reception there is absolutely terrible, particularly on Sunday nights: "Question Time" is a feature in which everybody is interested. It is an outstanding feature, so far as Radio Éireann is concerned, but it is absolutely impossible to get it in Wexford town on Sunday nights. The Minister told me on other occasions that when the war was over something might be done. Now that the war is over I trust he will not forget his promise and that something will be done to enable Wexford people to get the worth of their money. "Question Time" is interesting and we would like to hear it, but at the present time it is impossible to hear it. I do not know why it is, but on Sunday nights the reception is worse than ever.

I should like to refer to what I might term a hardy annual. There is at the head of Radio Éireann a Gaelic footballer, a good Gaelic footballer. I have pressed time and again for a longer period than ten minutes to be given to Seán O Ceallacháin. Anybody interested in Gaelic sports, in football and hurling, will notice that there is a terrible rush in the results given by Seán O Ceallacháin at 10.50 on Sunday nights and it is obvious that he is most anxious to make comments on the games played during the day. Owing to the short time at his disposal it is impossible for him to do so. I know the people over the greater part of Ireland are interested in our national games and I think it is very unfair to confine Seán O Ceallacháin to ten minutes. It is impossible in that short time to do justice to the games played that day. Surely it is not too much to ask that during the Gaelic season, from Easter to the end of September, a little more time should be given to Seán O Ceallacháin to give the results of Gaelic games and make comments on the play. I expect the present Director, who was a great Gaelic player himself, will endeavour to secure that a good deal more time will be allowed in order to have comments on Gaelic games.

While the station appears to be going on well, I notice that very low wages are paid to some of the people employed there. I see that a skilled workman at the Cork station is paid 32/- a week. I wonder what particular kind of skill that man has if he is worth only 32/- a week. According to the information supplied us, that workman has increments which will bring him eventually to 42/-, but even that amount is an absolutely disgraceful wage.

Mr. Little

Plus bonus.

Mr. Corish

What is the bonus? Perhaps he has a bonus, but surely that amount as a standard wage for a man described as a skilled workman is absolutely ridiculous.

Mr. Little

The bonus brings his wage up to £3 10s. at the minimum.

Mr. Corish

In what way is this man skilled? A carpenter or a bricklayer at the present moment has very nearly £4 a week, without any bonus at all. When we talk about a bonus we usually visualise a time when the Government will endeavour to reduce that bonus. I say that that skilled workman has an absolutely rotten wage. Then, again, there is a messenger boy employed at 7/- a week. I think it is terrible for a Government to ask anybody to work for 7/- a week at the present time. I do not know how the Minister could justify a wage of that kind. Something should be done to remedy that position. People will think very little of a Government Department that will pay a boy only 7/- a week. I hope the Minister will deal with the points I have raised and in the near future will do something in order to adjust them.

Mr. M. O'Sullivan

There is a disposition in this country to deride certain of our national institutions. I think I am correct in saying that the Broadcasting Station comes in for its due share of caustic criticism. Perhaps one reason for that is that we are inclined to judge our Broadcasting Station vis-a-vis the British Broadcasting Corporation. That is not entirely fair, having regard to the resources of the British Broadcasting Corporation. I am not saying that our station is perfect. It is far from that, but having regard to all the conditions that surround it, it is doing reasonably good work.

One of the grievances that have been given expression to by Deputy Corish is one that I, too, had in mind. That is what could be described as an abuse of the radio, particularly on a Sunday evening, by the reading of the full text of a Minister's speech. On Sunday evenings, as a rule, listeners like to enjoy radio entertainment in the quietness of their homes and they have little desire to hear Minister's speeches. I can only describe it as a merciful relief when, during the past 12 months, the Taoiseach and his Ministers did not find an occasion to go down the country and subsequently subject radio listeners on a Sunday evening to the reading of the speech from the Broadcasting Station, some speeches lasting fully 20 minutes. I cannot understand why that should be done. It gives rise to the suggestion that there is some political bias so far as Radio Éireann is concerned.

I join with Deputy Corish in saying that there has been an undoubted improvement in the presentation of the reports of proceedings in this House. What we get over the radio at night is a fair summary of the speeches made here. Deputy Corish made quite a good point with reference to questions put in the Dáil. From my experience here, Question Time is perhaps one of the most important phases of the Dáil. Over the wireless questions are not dealt with in the way Deputies would like, or in a manner that constituents would appreciate. It should not cause very much trouble, so far as the station staff is concerned, to indicate the Deputy asking a particular question here, and so have his name recorded.

So far as radio is concerned, I get the major portion of my enjoyment from my own station. There are some very excellent features there and, if I might mention one of them, it is "Question Time." Notwithstanding the run it has had for a number of years, it is still the favourite. There are other excellent features, such as "Radio Digest" and there was recently introduced a delightful series of lessons in Irish known as "Listen and Learn." I think more has been done for the language by that delightful presentation than has been done for a good many years. There are a number of items on the Radio Éireann programme that might be described as stodgy or of an uninteresting character. Is the Minister making full use of the Advisory Council and is he having a continuous survey made of the programmes in order to ensure that the most enjoyable material is placed at the disposal of listeners? With regard to the Advisory Council, I would like to know what is its personnel, what precisely does it do, and how often does it meet. Is there a representative on that council of the artists, who should be primarily concerned, because they are the people who supply the entertainment?

With regard to the station, I might say that I am amazed that it is possible for the staff to give the service that they do give with the existing equipment they have. Anybody who has been over there will agree with me when I say that what they have is the equipment of a third-rate show and it is wholly unworthy of a national institution. I am not blaming the Minister and certainly not the Director or his staff. To me the trouble would appear to originate in the fact that the station is under the strict control of the Minister for Finance and regulations are imposed by the Minister for Finance and his staff to such an extent as to slow down progress so far as the broadcasting station is concerned. I am certain that that particularly applies to the rate of remuneration even of the artists themselves, which has been the subject of prolonged agitation and complaint. Deputy Corish has mentioned the fact that members of the staff work on low wages. It was necessary to make a forceful protest here only last year, in regard to the news reporting staff, to ensure that reasonable conditions would apply in that particular category.

So far as the presentation of news is concerned, the reply to Deputy Corish might be that, in relation to our war news, we must bear in mind that we were a neutral country and had to be exceedingly careful regarding the type of news put over to the public. Naturally, we had more than an Irish audience in that respect, and so there were other vital considerations. I do plead that we should have a more abundant supply of local news in the future, now that the war news has been eliminated and there will be more time. We might be given news of the more interesting items occurring in the city or throughout the country and pronouncements which would be of interest to listeners generally.

Might I congratulate the Minister on the appointment of the present chief announcer, who is not alone a credit to himself but to the station? In that tribute, I would like to couple the new male voice there—I do not know his name—who has fitted in admirably to his duties, and the same applies to the young lady. I think the announcing staff of Radio Éireann bears very favourable comparison with the best of the stations that were in existence throughout Europe up to now. I suggest that the Minister should take his courage in his hands on this occasion, to alter the station in such a way as to give the artists an opportunity to make the best of their presentations and that the parsimonious arrangements in operation should cease, at least for the next 12 months.

Mr. Byrne

I wish to join with others in congratulating the Minister, and I am of the opinion that since we discussed this Estimate last year there has been a very marked improvement. There is no doubt that we are making satisfactory progress. I would suggest to the Minister that there should be more personal appearances of our Irish artistes. Whilst the special recordings are well worth listening to and are magnificently selected, and whilst the programme is exceptionally good, I do not think the personal appearances of our own Irish artistes occur often enough. The Minister may be able to make an improvement in that respect, so that they might come to the microphone personally and, when they do, we should be told that it is a personal appearance and not merely a record. We would appreciate that very much.

I have a little comment to make on "Question Time," an item in which we are all very much interested. A few weeks ago, whilst we were enjoying one of the best Sunday nights ever, and people were answering questions and singing to their hearts' content— including a singer with a very rich Irish brogue—we were told that there was only a minute to go and the item was faded out, much to the disappointment, I am sure, of thousands of listeners. I suggest that a minute or so would permit of the item being concluded and that that time could have been made up by knocking it off a record later on. I admit that there should be a timekeeper and that one cannot allow one programme to cut into the minutes belonging to another, but minutes are not so precious that one or two extra could not have been allowed in order to enable listeners to hear the finish of the competition and get the results. I think those in charge should have used a little more discretion in that matter. The broadcast to which I refer was from Skibbereen, as far as I remember.

One of the new features which has given great satisfaction is the "Listen and Learn" item in regard to Irish. Whoever is responsible for it is certainly doing the work very well. Even an old hand like myself is listening and trying to learn, but I suppose failing miserably, though I am hopeful that some day I will be able to say: Conus tá tú, tá mé go maith, cionnus tá tú féin and suidh síos as well as the other little phrases we hear the children using every day.

Recently I was reading some of the English and American scientific papers which are promising great things at a very early date for their people in television. That is part and parcel of broadcasting and there may be a very considerable revenue from it in the near future. I would be glad to hear from the Minister that we are not behind other countries in our research work in connection with television and that there will be a development here. This country is no longer behind the times, nor is it to be considered as second-rate or third-rate in any of its services. We can boast, very properly, of our aerodromes, which are the equal of any in any part of the world. I merely mention that to show that our broadcasting station should be more up-to-date with equipment, as Deputy Martin O'Sullivan has said, and should not be allowed to become out-of-date. Sums of money should be spent on development in order to give our people pleasure.

In conclusion, I repeat my hope that the Minister will give me some answer regarding the prospect of television development, as I was writing a question to put to him some day next week and he may save both of us some trouble by giving us, in his reply, some review of the future in regard to that important matter.

Mr. Murphy

I am glad to be able to add my congratulations to those of other Deputies, and to say that there has been some improvement generally in this service. I should like also to acknowledge the small mercies we received in certain parts of the country, by the removal of that irritating noise which in the past detracted considerably from the value of the programmes. We could do with further improvement in that respect but I desire to acknowledge the improvement effected during the past 12 months. Some time ago, I listened with very great pleasure to a broadcast of a play, The Lost Leader, dealing with a subject that will always be of enthralling interest to our people. While I consider that the children of to-day know a good deal about the recent history of Ireland, and about our ancient history, there is an important period in recent history about which they seem to know very little, and on which many adults, too, seem to be extremely hazy. The history of the period I refer to seems to me not to have impressed itself on their minds, but it is a time about which radio listeners of advanced years would like to hear more. The Minister told us on previous occasions when this Vote was before the House that he welcomed suggestions. I ask him now to let us hear more about the stirring times when Parnell, Biggar, Davitt, Dillon, O'Brien, Healy and other leaders figured in our history.

Mr. Byrne

And John Redmond and Joe Devlin.

Mr. Murphy

Certainly; I am glad to include them. We would like to hear the story of the battles they took part in in the British House of Commons broadcast. The Irish Party of those days left their mark on the history of this country, and on the history of the British Parliament where, although in a minority, they became a great power and wielded great influence. In making this suggestion, I think I am voicing the views of a great many people who would like to hear more about those stirring days. I shall not forget for a long time the pleasure I derived recently from reading the life of Archbishop Walsh, a great churchman, a very distinguished Irishman, and a fearless advocate of the rights of the people. I am sure episodes from the life of Archbishop Walsh would be of very great interest to Irish radio listeners. The development of features of that kind in reasonable proportions would, I believe, be interesting. I should also like to hear more about that noble Irishman, the late Canon Sheehan. We could do with broadcasting items about the career of that distinguished man, as there are many people still living who knew him, not so much for his literary works because they are in evidence as can be seen by the tremendous demand for them. I refer more to the man, a fine type of Irish parish priest, whose words carried to the ends of the earth, and whose books have been translated into many languages. These are items that could be usefully included in the programmes with good results and with pleasure to listeners. I am sorry that the parsimonious policy of the Department in connection with the posts and telegraphs service and the shabby treatment meted out to some employees apparently permeates this Department. I do not want to end on a jarring note, but I wish to associate myself with the remarks made by Deputy Corish in that connection. Now that the opportunity offers I hope new ground will be broken by the development of a wider and more far-reaching policy in our broadcasting policy. There is an opportunity now for the Minister to divorce himself completely from the wretched policy of small wages, and from the penurious outlook that has been associated with certain arrangements in the Department. I know the Minister's interest in this country's progress, and I was glad to see him associating himself recently with the opening of a museum, which will be a reminder of a historic chapter in Irish history. I feel that if the Minister would extend work of that kind it would give our people the opportunity to hear of chapters that will always remain an enduring feature of Ireland's past.

Seán Mac Cárthaigh

Ba mhaith liom árd-mholadh do thabhairt don Aire agus do Stiúrthóir an Stáisiúin Fóirleatha de bharr a ndearnadar a chumadh agus a cheapadh i rith na bliana agus de bharr a bhfuil curtha i bhfeidhm anois ar son na Gaeilge agus ar mhaithe le saol náisiúnta na tíre idir cheól agus cluichí na nGaedheal, agus dramaíocht a bhaineann go speisialta le nósanna agus béasanna agus stair ár sinnsear.

Maidir le ceachtanna nua i nGaeilge, níl a sárú le fáil do réir mo thuairime-se agus tá árd-mheas orthu mór-thimpeall chúigi na hÉireann. Gan dabht ar domhan, tá árd-mheas ag na daoine, go mór-mhór ar fuaid na tuaithe, ar an mbeartas san atá á chur i bhfeidhm agus ag dul chun cinn go rí-mhaith fé láthair. Ceangal an-láidir isea an stáisiún so idir ár muintir anso in Éirinn agus na Gaeil thar lear i gcéin.

Tá súil agam go mbeidh ar a gcumas ag an Aire, ag an Roinn agus ag Stiúrthóir an Stáisiúin Fóirleatha Neamh-Shreangach gléasanna níos fearr agus níos cumhachtaí d'fháil agus do chur ag obair i slí go sroisfidh an nuaidheacht agus an clár go léir ár gcáirde agus glúin na nGael atá in Aimerice agus i dtíortha eile i bhfad uainn.

Tá súil agam go mbeidh caoi ag an Aire, leis, an Stáisiún i gCorcaigh d'ath-oscailt go hiomlán sar i bhfad i dtreo go mbeidh rogha áirithe ag an lucht éisteachta.

Táim ar aon aigne leis an Teachta Corish mar gheall ar an am a tugtar do Sheán O Ceallachán oíche Dé Domhnaigh. Ní bhíonn ach deich nóimeatai aige agus go deimhin ní leor san.

Go deimhin tá ár mbuíochas tuillte go maith ag an Roinn atá i bhfeighil an stáisiúin agus gach a mbaineann leis fé láthair.

I must congratulate the Minister and the Director of the Broadcasting Station on the policy they have decided on, especially with regard to making the programmes more Irish in every way, more representative of the life of the country, of the customs and history of its people, so that when people tune in to Radio Éireann they will know at once that we are a distinctive people, with our own culture high in the estimation not alone of our own people here but all those of our exiles who are scattered far and wide through the world and who like to keep up their contacts with their native land through hearing from the source of events of the days and years as they go by, the recollections and memories of those stirring things which have inspired past generations and have kept the Gaelic ideal to the forefront as an inspiration for the generations yet to come.

In that regard I agree with the other speakers in saying that even with the great difficulties which have presented themselves during the period of the emergency, great progress has been made. I welcome the "Listen and Learn" programme and I have heard people from various parts of Ireland speak very highly of it. Even though the speaker is a Muimhneach, a native Munsterman, the Gaels of Ulster have the highest appreciation of the manner in which these lessons are conducted by him. It is a feature which I hope will be preserved.

I hope that in the new development we shall be able to have a station so powerful that its voice will extend to the ends of the earth, so that our people everywhere may keep in touch with the Irish race at home. I agree with Deputy Corish that, especially during the busy time of the year, so far as Gaelic games are concerned, the ten minutes allotted to Seán O Ceallacháin on Sunday night is not at all sufficient and I hope it will be found possible to extend the time somewhat. We appreciate very much indeed what the Minister and the Director have done and the generous and whole-hearted way in which they try to meet the demands made upon them.

Reference has been made to the Cork station, and I hope that at no far distant date it will be possible to reopen that station fully, so that the talent in various parts of the country may be broadcast in such a way that the people will have a choice of various programmes. In congratulating the Minister and the director again, I have only to say that I hope they will continue on the lines which they have decided. By doing so, they will gain for themselves the appreciation of the Irish race at home and abroad.

Mr. O'Donnell

There is nothing in what the other speakers have said with which I can disagree. They have covered most of the ground I should like to cover and reiteration is not very pleasant to have to listen to. I quite agree with the suggestion as to the Irish news. Anybody who is interested in the English news can hear it at least twice in four or five hours, but people are anxious to hear the Irish news, and, when the English news is presented first, one finds that one has not memorised it sufficiently to know when the Irish news will come on. I agree that the Irish news should come first. Deputies have wondered what we will do for news when the war is over. I suppose we shall only have to invent it. An acquaintance of mine had the happy knack of knowing the latest. If there was none, he could invent it, and he was known as "Tomorrow's Independent". There are still a few geniuses on the map. We will not be short of news, anyway.

Allusion has been made by Deputy Murphy to the lives of those wonderful men of Parnell's party. He referred also to Canon Sheehan. I do not suppose he omitted "Knocknagow" deliberately—I would not say he would— but it is a book which has had a steady sale and is the grandest of all the Irish novels.

Mr. Little

We did "Knocknagow".

Mr. Corish

In dramatised form, a couple of times.

Mr. O'Donnell

I was recently reading in the National Library some things written by Kickham in which he spoke of '48 and '49, the famine years or directly after, the decline of Irish games and how they were killed. He said that we had '98, '48 and '67. Nobody regards these as failures because they led to something bigger. 1916 was not a failure. We are here by virtue of 1916. Who led up to 1916? The Gaelic clubs, the G.A.A. That is the very thing that Kickham mentioned in these writings. The hurling game was killed at that time. I mention these matters in the hope of our being allowed to hear more of that period with particular reference to the earlier days of the G.A.A.

Kickham gives a description of boys and girls collecting on Sunday evening and hurling the two sides of the road —one parish against another. Mr. Justice Shallow, with a party of peelers at his heels, bailiffs and rent warners, came and told them to clear away. If they did not, the Riot Act was read, and, inside a week, the rent warner came round to the farmers, who, as you know, were tenants at will, and advised them to keep the boys at home "or the rent will be ‘ris' on you". Of course, they were kept at home. The games were revived in 1884 and I suggest, as I suggested last year, that we should have broadcasts of all these games, starting with the very last final and going back. I am charmed by the principal commentator on Gaelic finals.

I never saw him, but he is a national figure and there is nothing in English broadcasting to touch him.

Mr. Corish

Micheál O'Hehir.

Mr. O'Donnell

Yes. I agree also with Deputy Corish that the time allotted to Seán O Ceallacháin on Sunday night is clipped too short. On last Sunday night there were eight or ten county matches taking place, but we were not told whether they were minor, junior or senior. These are merely pin pricks, but he should get more time, as he is a brilliant announcer. I suggested last year that arrangements should be made for the broadcasting of G.A.A. finals played in earlier years. Let each county committee be responsible for the preparation of the script, the speakers to be those members of county teams who have played in the finals. At present we have too much of the Oxford accent and "Haw-Haw" stuff from announcers over the radio. I want to tell the House that we have a greater variety of accents in Ireland than they have in America. You will get a greater variety of accents between Donegal and Cork and Antrim and Wexford than you will between San Francisco and New York. Why do our Irish announcers assume the Oxford and "Haw-Haw" accent? The Oxford accent may do all right in a city of dead languages and lost creeds, but I doubt it. Language was given to us, I suppose, to convey our thoughts. I have nothing very much to say against Dublinese. The good-class Dublin accent is second to none. But there is no county where the people have the right to claim that they speak the best English in the world. I believe that the best language is the most easily understood. I do not want to make any special claim for my native county, although I do say that radio listeners can easily understand what we say. We had no G.A.A. in '98, in '48 or in '67. As Kickham pointed out, the magistrates or the rent warners would not allow a hurling or a football match to be played. If the G.A.A. had not been started we would not be here to-day. I knew Tom Clarke and most of the men of his period, but I repeat that if it were not for the G.A.A. lads we would not be here this evening.

I am interested in the G.A.A. At the same time I do not want to say anything against other games, such as rugby, soccer or hockey. The championships under the G.A.A. were started in 1887. It is only a short time since the captain of the Tipperary team that won the championship in 1889 died. He was a man who would be fit to broadcast the story of that game and, as Father Hayes reminded us, it is a pity that his voice was not heard over the radio. My suggestion is that the script for a broadcast of these old championship matches should be prepared under the aegis of the county committees of the G.A.A. Let them pick the men to take part in the broadcast. We do not want the "Haw-Haw" or Oxford accent to perpetuate the memory of those great games. The broadcast that will be given by some of those old players will not be biased in any way. At the present time we have 70,000 and 80,000 people attending the All-Ireland hurling and football finals. If train services were available on Sundays, Croke Park would not be able to accommodate the crowds that would attend. The attendances, I believe, would reach the 250,000 mark. I suggest that the great games that were played in the last ten, 20 or 30 years are well worthy of description over the radio by some of the men who took part in them. Many of those men are well fit to broadcast. It is not long since I heard a broadcast by Charles Coburn who, many years ago, was a famous figure in the music-hall world, and I enjoyed it very much. Finally, my suggestion is that we should have a broadcast for at least half an hour a week of these old G.A.A. games over the whole year by some of the men who took part in them. The present generation would like to hear the voices of those old gladiators.

Mr. Little

On behalf of the director and the station I am very grateful for the very kind things the Deputies have said about the station. I think it is a good thing that that should be done. It will encourage them because they come in for a great deal of criticism. The suggestions made here to-day will be examined by the director, and those which are found to be suitable will be availed of. Deputy Hughes put his finger on the weak spot. It is true that the news service, which has been reduced to the minimum, is giving us a great deal of trouble. At the moment, we are actually trying to get a new staff. The Civil Service Commission is now engaged on the task of making certain appointments for us. In the meantime we are trying to carry on as best we can. It is quite true, as one Deputy has said, that the war situation made difficulties for us in several directions.

First of all, news about the war was so much more interesting than any other items, that it obliged us to put the news in the order of interest. Our station news has long been regarded as being very unbiased, and as giving a very fair view. As regards the news, we are faced with the difficulty not only of getting a staff at headquarters but also of getting correspondents all over the country. A news service is an extremely expensive thing if you are to get it done properly. It requires a special flair, or gift, in people, especially in rural areas, to be able to get news which will be of interest on a national service. However, we are doing the best we can. We are examining the matter to see what we can do to establish a service which will be suitable.

I am very anxious indeed that we should use the radio as a great national institution so that it will reflect really significant and interesting activities over the whole country. It is the policy of the Government to decentralise and to make our programmes more attractive for the people who live on the land. That is a problem to which we will direct our attention. We hope to get the fullest possible co-operation from Deputies so that if they get interested in some cultural activities in their own areas they will seek the assistance and advice of Radio Éireann. Similar work is being done in other countries. We are anxious to do everything we can in that direction. So far we have succeeded in getting certain centres to co-operate with us, but we are not satisfied that they are sufficient. Included in that will, of course, be attention to significant sporting competitions, including hurling and Gaelic football matches. A weak point is, undoubtedly, that the farmers do not like talking on the radio. It is very hard to get really good farmers to come to the radio or even to be interviewed.

Mr. Hughes

You have scientists.

Mr. Little

We have to be somewhat conservative. We are afraid that we might put across stuff which would be purely experimental and which might mislead farmers. We want to follow a solid, national policy.

Mr. Hughes

That is not a compliment to the scientists.

Mr. Little

Scientists have very experimental mind. I do not say that they are adventurers but they are, certainly, out for adventure. For that reason, we have to be pretty careful. At the same time, we are giving very special attention to the matter. The ideal thing would be if farmers who have proved successful would allow themselves to be interviewed. Some people think that the farmer himself must come to the microphone. I do not think that that is at all necessary. We could send our people to interview them and we could put over the stuff for them. I should like to be able to give a really vivid picture of rural life all over the country, taking in not alone farming but other activities.

Deputy Byrne raised the question of television. Our experts have been watching that very carefully. Some of them were recently in America and elsewhere and they made inquiries as to the progress of television. We are watching developments. Unfortunately, television is extremely expensive and the range is very limited. They have not succeeded in increasing the range. We were hoping that they would. I am afraid that it will be a long time before we shall be able to adopt television. The range at present is only 50 miles, and the installation of television is very expensive. It is only the very rich people who could avail of it. It will be a long time before television will compete with the pictures as a democratic amusement.

Deputy Murphy suggested that we should have a certain type of attractive feature dealing with Irish history. I am in entire agreement with that. The station has already done sketches of a great many episodes in Irish history and we ought to cover every period. However, when dealing with periods which are not fighting periods and which are not so vividly dramatic, the task is somewhat difficult. It is not easy to put across a purely political situation. Some Deputy made the admirable suggestion that we should put some of Canon Sheehan's works on the radio. There is some difficulty about getting permission to dramatise the works, but we shall bear that suggestion in mind.

The difficulty in Wexford is an extraordinary one. It may be due to the configuration of the land but we do not know. At present, there is no booster or gadget we could get to improve matters.

Mr. Corish

There is a bit of an improvement.

Mr. Little

The sound that the experts call the "curlew" has disappeared. That was due to the war, as the Deputy probably knows. The trouble came from a radio beacon for aeroplanes in Brest. There is no harm in saying that now. The reporting of the Dáil is a problem in a way, because some people say we do not give enough of the speeches and others say that we give too much. Frankly, I think that we were giving too much. The art of summary is a very difficult one. On the whole, I think that Deputies are satisfied with the present situation. As regards questions, we use them principally for the purpose of indicating Government policy. If we were to give the names of Deputies in some cases, we would have to give them all or there would be complaints. We use questions for Government policy purposes. It will be noticed that the questions are chosen to put across important policy matters or information for the benefit of the people.

A question was raised as to the wage of a boy messenger. If the Deputy had followed the item across the page, he would have seen that the boy messenger is getting 19/- a week.

Mr. Corish

But he starts at 7/-.

Mr. Little

The total for the year is £44 and there is only one boy.

Mr. Corish

You would not expect to get two or three boys for 7/-.

Mr. Little

I did not suggest that. Deputy O'Sullivan asked about the Advisory Council. I can hardly express my gratitude to the Advisory Council for their helpfulness. We have done exactly what they suggested. There has been a continuous survey of the various sections of the radio and we have adopted a great many of their suggestions. They were particularly helpful in connection with the "Listen and Learn" programme. It took us about six months to hammer out that programme. To them, the Department of Education and Aindreas O Muineacháin, we are extremely grateful. It is a great success.

Mr. Corish

What about the Gaelic sports talk on Sunday night?

Mr. Little

We shall try to increase the time. Deputy Byrne suggested that, if a nice song ran somewhat over the time, we should let it proceed.

Mr. Corish

Better keep to the timetable.

Mr. Little

It is better, I think, to have a rigid rule that the time must be adhered to. Otherwise, there would be a liability to abuse. Officials in the station would be abused unless there were a rigid rule to relieve them of responsibility in the matter.

Mr. McCarthy

Five minutes extra for the Gaelic sports talk would serve the purpose.

Mr. Little

We shall examine that and see what we can do. Deputy McCarthy raised a question as to a short-wave station, the range of which would reach to America. That matter is being attended to. We are doing our best to get such a station into operation, but it will be very expensive. If we were to start work to-morrow, it would take 18 months or two years to set it up. Any other suggestions made will be sympathetically examined. We always welcome suggestions at the station.

Vote put and agreed to.