Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 6 Mar 1946

Vol. 99 No. 16

Private Deputies' Business. - Adjournment Debate—Imports of Jaffa Oranges.

Mr. Dillon

To-day I asked the Ceann Comhairle's permission to raise on the Adjournment the substance of a question which I had addressed to the Minister for Industry and Commerce on the 14th February. The grounds on which I based that application were that the answer that the Minister had given to me on the 14th February was not true. It behoves me now to substantiate that statement. Deputies are aware that considerable quantities of Jaffa oranges have recently arrived in this country. Jaffa oranges are the produce of Palestine, exported from the port of Jaffa. It is common knowledge that these oranges were imported by a firm well-established in the trade known as Messrs. Connolly, Shaw and Company. At column 956, Volume 99, No. 8, of the Official Reports, the Minister for Industry and Commerce is reported as saying to me:—

"Only one firm approached my Department for shipping facilities in respect of Jaffa oranges."

I ask the House to note these words:—

"Equal facilities would, however, be granted to any other firm qualified to receive facilities and in a position to arrange supplies."

It is a reasonable assumption that Messrs. Connolly, Shaw approached the Department and got the facilities, which they availed of, to import the oranges. I now direct the attention of the Minister and the House to the following letter from the Department of Industry and Commerce addressed to Messrs. James Reilly, Sons and Company, Corporation Market, Dublin:—

"S.214/1136.

A Cháirde,

I am directed by the Minister for Industry and Commerce to refer to your letter of the 17th October regarding the importation of oranges.

In reply I am to inform you that shipping space is allocated for the importation of oranges only to firms who in pre-war years imported supplies direct from abroad."

I suggest to the House that, having demonstrated that Messrs. Reilly applied for facilities and were denied them, I have established the truth of my statement that the Minister's statement—that only one firm approached his Department for shipping facilities in respect of Jaffa oranges—was not true. At least two firms: Messrs. Connolly, Shaw, who got them, and Messrs. James Reilly, Sons and Company, who did not get them, approached his Department.

Now the facts of this transaction are as follows: In October, Messrs. James Reilly, Sons and Company, who have been in the fruit importing business for many years in this city, provisionally purchased 10,000 cases of Jaffa oranges for 18/- per case, f.o.b. Jaffa, contingent on getting the facilities from the Minister for Industry and Commerce, which the importation of any merchandise to this country must have if the import is to be effected. On 17th October, 1945, they wrote to the Minister for Supplies:—

"We are in the position to obtain a supply of oranges to arrive here in December for Christmas trade. Kindly state can we go ahead with the importation arrangements?"

On the 31st October, they addressed a reminder to the Department because they had received no reply to the first letter. On the 1st November, they received the letter which I have already read to the House:

"In reply I am to inform you that shipping space is allocated for the importation of oranges only to firms who in pre-war years imported supplies direct from abroad."

On December 11th they commissioned a firm of chartered accountants, the integrity of which is not challenged, to submit a certificate to the Department that in November, 1934, December, 1934, January, 1935, on four separate occasions; February, 1935, on two separate occasions, and March, 1935, on three separate occasions, they imported large quantities of Jaffa oranges from Palestine direct. They were willing and anxious thereafter at all times to import oranges from the same source direct, but were prohibited from doing so by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, because the Government had made the eggs-oranges agreement with Spain, under which it was agreed that while Spain was sending oranges here to pay for our export of eggs, it was inexpedient to permit Jaffa oranges to come in lest they should compete too strongly with the best Spain could produce. Therefore, these people who, in the pre-war years, had been importing oranges direct from Jaffa, were at all times willing to continue to do so but for the fact that they were prevented by our own Government, in pursuance of the Spanish trade agreement, from carrying on normal trade, and as a result of the prohibition this firm suffered substantial loss about which they did not complain.

That certificate being filed with the Department, the Department addressed to this firm on the 22nd December, under the same file number, the following letter:—

"I am directed by the Minister for Industry and Commerce to refer to the recent interview which a member of your firm had with an official of this Department regarding the granting of facilities for the importation of oranges. I am to inform you that the evidence submitted does not establish that you imported oranges direct from abroad in the years up to introduction of official control over shipping space in 1941. The Minister regrets, therefore, that the facilities required by you cannot be granted.

I am to return herewith the auditor's certificate submitted by you in support of your claims."

Does the House observe that the vital date for importing oranges has now changed? It is no longer the importation of oranges in the years before the war. It is now the importation of oranges in the years up to the introduction of official control over shipping space in 1941.

Messrs. Reilly replied on 7th January:

"In reply to yours of the 22nd December, 1945, we would inform you that the submitting of auditor's certificate was in answer to your letter dated 1st November, 1945, and if same is not sufficient evidence that we imported oranges direct pre-war, kindly let us know what would be.

Further to our interview with an official of your Department on 3rd inst., the suggestion that no record exists in your office relative to oranges and ourselves is an absurdity. We must ask you to institute a further inquiry and let us know what happened to all our expired and exhausted, licences which were duly returned to you."

On 22nd January this firm received the following letter:

"I am directed by the Minister for Industry and Commerce to refer to your letter of the 7th January and previous representations regarding the provision of shipping space for oranges.

"In the absence of evidence that you imported oranges direct from country of origin in the years immediately preceding the institution of control over shipping space in 1941, the Minister regrets that he cannot provide the shipping facilities you desire."

On the 29th January, Messrs. Reilly wrote:—

"Replying to yours of the 22nd January, we would remind you that we first wrote to you concerning Jaffa oranges on the 17th October, 1945, and that during the past week a shipment of these oranges has been on sale here. This is the first direct shipment of oranges from Palestine to this country on which we have not had a consignment."

Up to that date, of every such shipment of Jaffa oranges which reached Éire from Palestine, part belonged to this firm. I continue to quote:

"The introduction of the Spanish trade pact caused a cessation of direct shipments from Palestine which, in itself, was a serious loss to us, and we consider that it is most unjust, now that trade in oranges with Palestine is resumed, that we are being denied the right to trade. It does not seem feasible now that such is the Minister's wish, and it is our intention to make our position made known to him. Meanwhile, should a ship outside of the Maritime Control, out of which you are granting shipping space, become available to us for the transportation of oranges, can we use it for our purpose?

On 6th February, they received the following reply:—

"I am to inform you that carriage of goods on foreign ships for Irish account from a port not situate in either this country or the United Kingdom to a port situate in or outside this country is prohibited save under licence issued by the Minister in accordance with the terms of Emergency Powers (No. 224) Order, 1942. As facilities for the importation of oranges are provided only for firms who imported direct from country of origin in the years immediately preceding the institution of control over shipping space in 1941, the Minister regrets that he could not issue on your behalf a licence under the above-mentioned Order."

That meant that that firm could neither bring oranges here on our ships nor resort to the expedient of the other firm—that of employing any foreign shipping available to bring oranges in here. What I want to direct the special attention of the House to is that, in November, the vital qualification was the importation of fruit direct in pre-war years. In December and January, the period of qualification was that immediately preceding 1941. What had happened between these two dates?

There is in Palestine a body known as the Palestine Citrus Board—a perfectly legitimate cartel, which seeks to control all supplies of citrus fruit in Palestine. It has never yet succeeded in doing so. Independent producers have continued to sell their produce not through the cartel but through their own agents. That cartel is a mixed body of Arab interests and Jewish interests. Their representatives in London communicated with a national of our country who, in the ordinary course of trade, had business discussions with them. He was appointed, in the ordinary course of trade, as their patrone for transactions within the jurisdiction of Eire. If I understand the term "patrone" correctly, it means that the person concerned becomes the agent of the Citrus Board and acts on their behalf. The patrone in this case—I think it is only just and fair to say this without concealment or suggestion—was Deputy Briscoe.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair does not see how Deputy Briscoe's name enters into the debate.

Mr. Dillon

I do not want to be hinting at it or making suggestions. I make no reflections of any kind on the Deputy. His name was bound to come out.

An Ceann Comhairle

Not necessarily.

Mr. Dillon

He knows that I know he is the person concerned, and I think most other people also know. There is no reason, therefore, why I should be hinting about it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy informed the Chair that the matter he proposed to raise related to the last paragraph of column 956, particularly, the last six lines.

Mr. Dillon

These are the facts, and the House is entitled to know them. The patrone of the Citrus Board, in pursuance of his arrangements, met the fruit trade. So far as I know, Messrs. Connolly, Shaw were prepared to import the fruit on terms acceptable to the Citrus Board of Palestine. I understand that a couple of other firms were approached with a view to ascertaining if their requirements could be met. For one reason or another, they were not prepared to put up the credits that, in these uncertain times, many foreign merchants require before they are prepared to make a binding contract for any consignment. The net result was that Messrs. Connolly, Shaw, who were able to meet the requirements of the Citrus Board, contracted for a supply of oranges which, in due course, were shipped and delivered in Dublin. On arrival here, I understand that the Minister for Industry and Commerce invited— whether he ordered or not, I cannot say —Messrs. Connolly, Shaw to approach two firms who had not been in a position to make financial provision for direct shipments themselves, and offer them a part of the parcel which had come to hand. I believe that that offer was made. There were, however, other firms whose relations with Messrs. Connolly, Shaw, for various reasons, may not have been as cordial as the relations of those other firms.

In business, misunderstandings occur between firms, as we all know, and some firms did not desire to be be holden to Messrs. Connolly, Shaw. They would prefer to be utterly independent and to be allowed to make their own shipments. Those firms were not vouchsafed the advantage of sharing in the parcel on shippers' terms and they found themselves relegated to the position of mere wholesalers, although they themselves had no retail customers. They were constrained by custom of the trade to dispose of their fruit only to shopkeepers, which meant that firms like Messrs. Reilly were deprived of their legitimate profit on their ordinary trade.

Every citizen of this State ought to be entitled to equal treatment and there should be preference for none. If Messrs. Reilly and Messrs. Connolly, Shaw were both importing oranges from Palestine in the pre-war years, as per the Minister's letter, then Messrs. Connolly, Shaw and Messrs. Reilly should have been offered identical facilities. I certify, and I am prepared to demonstrate, that Messrs. Reilly were in a position to make, with an independent producer with whom they were in touch, through a London broker, financial arrangements which would have enabled a shipment to be made direct to them from Palestine. I assert that they were, vis-a-vis their intended supplier, in exactly the same position as Messrs. Connolly, Shaw were vis-a-vis the Palestine Citrus Board. It appears to me to be unjust, inequitable and wrong that one citizen of this State should have been given facilities which enabled Messrs. Connolly, Shaw to bring their cargo to hand and to dispose of it at a legitimate profit in the Irish market, whereas another citizen of the State was denied those facilities and told expressly that they would not be forthcoming.

I ask the Minister to tell the House why it was that, in his letter of 1st November, the vital qualification was that firms should in pre-war years have imported supplies direct from abroad, and that, when evidence was brought to his attention that this firm did qualify under that condition, in his next letter of 22nd December, the nature of the qualification had suddenly altered and now applied to firms who had imported oranges direct immediately preceding the imposition of the control in 1941. Some Deputies may wonder why it was that Messrs. Connolly, Shaw, who had been importing Palestine oranges during the period to which I have referred, were importing Spanish oranges thereafter, whereas Messrs. Reilly, who had been importing Palestine oranges, ceased to import Spanish oranges. Deputies might ask if this was not evidence that Messrs. Reilly had given up the business of direct importation. That presumption would be quite contrary to the facts. The only inference to be drawn from the facts is that Messrs. Reilly did not want to import Spanish oranges but wanted to import Jaffa oranges. Anybody acquainted with the trade knows that the quality of Jaffa oranges is superior to that of Spanish oranges. As the Minister is entitled to 10 minutes in which to reply, I shall now conclude.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Lemass)

I think that I shall be able to dispose very easily of any misunderstanding there may be in connection with this matter. In the first place, I want to draw the attention of Deputy Dillon to the fact that he did not quote the whole of the reply I gave to his question on the 14th February last.

I began that reply by pointing out that there are no restrictions on the importation of oranges into this country, and I added that at the present time, however, shipping and currency facilities are granted only to firms which imported oranges direct from the country of origin before the emergency. My statement, later, that only one firm approached my Department for shipping facilities in respect of Jaffa oranges, clearly related to the previous statement that facilities were granted only to firms which had imported oranges direct from the country of origin before the emergency. There is no restriction on the importation of oranges into this country. Those who import oranges, however, require, sometimes, currency facilities; sometimes, shipping facilities. In the case of Jaffa oranges they require no currency facilities as these oranges can be purchased for sterling. It is, therefore, only shipping facilities that they require, but because of the limited amount of shipping accommodation that we control, we have to confine that shipping accommodation to those firms which were previously engaged in the importation of any class of goods, and that applies to oranges. Accordingly, facilities that we can grant in respect of the import of oranges are confined to firms which can show that they were engaged in the importation of oranges direct from the countries of origin prior to the war. In that connection, I may say, that a large number of firms, which had imported oranges from Liverpool, have had to be excluded because of the fact that they did not import direct from the country of origin before the emergency, and these somewhat small firms were so numerous that proper control of shipping facilities could not be arranged on the basis of providing for them.

Deputy Dillon said that one firm asked for facilities but did not get them. I must say that I think Deputy Dillon might have had the courtesy to give me in advance the name of the firm, instead of forcing an examination of all the files of the Department in order to identify it. However, I have the file before me now, and I can give the facts. Now, I am not saying that Deputy Dillon was deliberately misleading the House when he made his statement. I think that he was misled by the firm in question, but he certainly left me and, I think, the House, under the impression that correspondence with the firm began on the 1st September, 1945. In case the Deputy is under any misapprehension, let me make it clear that, to the best of my recollection, I never heard of this firm until this evening, but, according to the file, the correspondence began on the 11th November, 1944, when the firm applied for facilities to import citrus foods from Spain and certain other goods from the Argentine. They were informed on the 11th January that in order to have their applications considered they would have to supply a statement from their auditors showing their direct imports of citrus fruits, from countries of origin, during the years 1937, 1938, 1939 and 1940. There was, therefore, no question of any change of policy as was suggested by Deputy Dillon. The firm concerned were informed that they had to show, in respect of those years, that they imported oranges direct from countries of origin, and the fact is that they have not been able to show that they imported oranges direct from these countries, during those years. Arising out of the trade agreement made with Spain in 1934, a quota for the importation of citrus fruits was arranged, but the Deputy did not mention that that arrangement ceased in 1937, and that, consequently, the years for which the information was asked were subsequent to the quota arrangement. The only evidence that this firm supplied to my Department as to its direct importation of oranges was what they described as a copy of an auditor's statement furnished in 1935 showing the quantity of oranges imported by them in 1934.

Mr. Dillon

There is the certificate which is dated the 11th December, 1945.

Mr. Lemass

That certificate was only submitted in respect of oranges imported in 1934, the bulk of which came from Liverpool, but the firm supplied no evidence, no documentary evidence, that they imported directly from the country of origin since that time. They could not even produce books showing their trade transactions in oranges, or any evidence that they had engaged in the importation of oranges directly from the country of origin since 1937. The only thing I can say in regard to that firm is that if they can produce any documentary evidence now that in the years preceding the emergency, 1937, 1938, 1939, and 1940, they imported oranges direct from the country of origin, then they qualify for whatever facilities can be given, just the same as any other firm. Let me say also that there is no discrimination against that particular firm. A number of other firms applied for facilities, and were refused on the same ground. If we were to decide on a different method of disqualification, such as importation in earlier years by firms, even though they went out of the business or did not import oranges in the subsequent years, it would be necessary to treat all alike and admit many firms which would qualify on that basis.

On that question of Jaffa oranges, let me make the position clear. A delegation went to Britain from the Palestine Citrus Fruit Exporters' Association to arrange for the disposal of their entire supply of Jaffa oranges. The Deputy, who was named here by Deputy Dillon, crossed over to London and interviewed that delegation with a view to arranging for the supply of a proportion of these oranges for this country.

Mr. Dillon

What about the independent producers?

Mr. Lemass

No independent producers contacted any brokers here.

Mr. Dillon

This firm told me——

Mr. Lemass

I have only a few minutes left, and I think the Deputy should not interrupt me. In consequence of that interview the Palestine Citrus Fruit Exporters' Association agreed to supply oranges to this country and nominated Messrs. Connolly, Shaw as their brokers. They intimated that they wanted to deal with only one firm, and Messrs. Connolly, Shaw is the largest in the business in this country. I may say that I was not quite satisfied that only one firm should import the oranges in this case. It is true that other firms are importing oranges from other countries. However, I directed my officers to go to the firm concerned and say that I wanted the consignment divided in accordance with the agreed basis for allocation amongst those in the trade—25 per cent. for other firms and 75 per cent. for Connolly, Shaw, Ltd. Some importers were not prepared to accept the risks which were involved as well as the profits, but they were offered an allocation of the oranges to be imported. I should like Deputies to understand that at the time the supply of these oranges was being arranged for, there was a belief that the market would be glutted and that the oranges would become unsaleable. That did not happen, however. As a matter of fact, there was sold in one week a quantity of oranges which would normally meet the demand for about three months. The danger anticipated by brokers in December, 1945, therefore, did not emerge; but they had that fear and so they were not willing to take all the risks as well as the profits, but, as I have said, they did get an allocation of oranges on arrival.

The situation with regard to shipping facilities is now easing, and I hope that that situation will end soon. The United Maritime Association, which controls shipping at the present time, is due to end in the very near future. If it does end, presumably it will be possible for firms to negotiate for shipping outside that control. They can then arrange for the importation of fruits, at least so far as Jaffa oranges are concerned, without reference to my Department. There will be no longer any reason why firms should approach my Department for shipping facilities when they can go out and get these facilities on a commercial basis. That is true in the case of Jaffa oranges, because the currency difficulty does not exist there. In the case of Spanish or Brazilian or Argentine oranges there will still be the question of currency facilities.

Mr. Dillon

And in the meantime no independent firm can function except through the Palestine Association?

Mr. Lemass

So far as Palestine is concerned, there are no currency difficulties, and I hope that in the near future there will be no question of shipping difficulties, and that shipping facilities will be available to newcomers. However, so long as we have to restrict imports so far as the matter of shipping facilities is concerned, we shall have to confine it to firms which were importing before the emergency. It is, of course, desirable to get away from that basis as soon as possible, but I think it is desirable in the interest of existing firms not to let newcomers in until the situation reaches a normal position again. However, I should like to say further, that so far as this particular firm, referred to by Deputy Dillon, is concerned, there is no indication on the file that they were engaged in the importation of oranges in the years between 1937 and 1941, and I can say to them that if they can produce any satisfactory documentary evidence that they engaged in importing oranges direct from the country of origin between 1937 and 1941, they will get the facilities.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.35 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 7th March, 1946.