asked the Minister for External Affairs whether, in view of the trial and condemnation of Monsignor Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb and Primate of Yugo-Slavia, he will state if he has any information or has caused any request to be addressed to the Governments of Great Britain or the United States or any other member of the United Nations Organisation seeking information as to the reasons for the religious persecution at present taking place in some European countries and of which the case of the Archbishop is an outstanding example, and inquiring whether anything is being done or can be done to prevent this persecution: and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Religious Persecution.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will state if and when the Government propose to place formally on public record the detestation of the Irish people of the judicial process which has culminated in the sentence of 16 years' forced labour on Monsignor Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb and Primate of Yugo-Slavia.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will state what steps, if any, he intends to take to express on behalf of the Irish people their abhorrence of the laws under which the Catholic Bishops, priests and people of Croatia are liable to be arrested, interned and put to death, and in particular of the conviction and sentence of the Primate, the Most Rev. Dr. Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb.
I shall take Questions 2, 3 and 4 together.
I have no official reports, nor have I any special information, which would enable me to make an authoritative statement on this matter.
I have, of course, seen the reports which have been published in the Press of almost every country and have been widely interpreted as indicating the commencement of an era of religious persecution—a general attack upon religion, and upon Christianity in particular, under cover of the bitter animosities which remain in every country occupied by a foreign Power during the recent war as the most hateful legacy of the occupation.
Freedom of conscience and the right to practise one's religion is rightly regarded as the most necessary and most fundamental human freedom, and any attack upon it in these days excites feelings of indignation and resentment in the minds of all people who love liberty and are conscious that to interfere with the right to give private and public homage to the Creator is to interfere with the ends of life itself.
The idea of religious persecution is particularly hateful to the people of this country, whose forebears had to endure such persecution for centuries. I know how they feel at any indication of a recrudescence of it anywhere, and the Dáil can feel assured that, should any practical way present itself in which we can be of any help in bringing effective influence to bear on the situation, the opportunity will not be neglected.
Will the Taoiseach say, in view of the express desire of the Dáil to take its full share in world co-operation to bring about order, to bring about peace and to avoid things disturbing to peace, whether he proposes to take any formal steps to secure full information on these matters so that Parliament here may be fully informed in an official way of the things that our Government are able to observe and obtain information about through formal channels?
I do not know what the Deputy thinks I can get or what formal steps I can take to get information on that matter.
Does the Taoiseach suggest that we have no means of getting information as to what is happening in these countries, in an official way through our representatives abroad or through any of the other countries that are taking formal part in the United Nations Organisation?
There is no way open to me in which I can get what I would regard as authoritative information in regard to that.
Will the Taoiseach accept the word of His Holiness the Pope?
Inasmuch as it is common knowledge that the sentence on Monsignor Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb and Primate of Yugo-Slavia, is one of many moves in an international Communist conspiracy to defame Christianity in general and the Catholic Church in particular, does not the Taoiseach think that it would be right and proper for the Legislature of this country publicly to express the detestation of our people by formal resolution, or such other method as he may think well and the Government may think well, to stigmatise this incident as an incident in a general Communist conspiracy and not as an isolated attempt at the persecution of religion in one particular part of Europe? Should we as a Christian country remain silent while there is a general international conspiracy among people here, there and everywhere all over the world, which pretends that each incident is disassociated from the other, while we know they are all part of the one common Communist conspiracy? Should we not say so now and perhaps give courage to other nations to follow our example?
I do not think I should go any further than I have gone.
Are you prepared to move that this House take any action?
If the Deputy desires to do that, the way to do it is to put down a motion.
And have it debated in 18 months' time when half the Primates of the Catholic Church in Europe are in jail. Will the Government give an opportunity of debating such a motion if I do put it down?
That is a matter which can be decided if the Deputy tables a motion.
There is no use in having it debated in 1949.
That is not a matter for me.
Does the Taoiseach realise that Parliament here should get the greatest possible information as to what is happening in the world disturbing to order and to peace? For what purpose have we Ambassadors and Ministers and representatives of various kinds in the United States, in Great Britain, at the Vatican, and in other countries throughout the world if the Taoiseach simply tells us here that he has no information, that he has no way of getting it and, apparently, does not intend to attempt to get in any way formal information as to these terrible things which are apparently happening in the world?
Does the Taoiseach really mean that our Parliament and our people, in the circumstances that are reflected in these questions, are just to wait and read the newspapers and get no formal guidance and no information from the Government as to what exactly, in so far as they can find it out, is happening in this respect in the world?
I said already that I have no special information which would enable me to make an authoritative statement, and I do not think that I can secure for the Dáil information which would enable the Dáil to make an authoritative pronouncement either. The information which I get through our ambassadors, our representatives abroad-this information is often of a confidential character, and before it could be used here as the basis for authoritative statements permission would have to be formally got for its use in this way, and I doubt if I could get it.
Is the Taoiseach aware that the Archbishop has been sentenced to 16 years' imprisonment?
I have told the House that I have got the information which everybody in the country has got-the information published in the Press.
Does the Taoiseach know that the Archbishop has been sentenced to 16 years' imprisonment?
I know it from the Press, the same as everybody else.
Is the Taoiseach aware that it has been prominently stated that the struggle that has begun between the Soviet and the Catholic Church in Europe is at the bottom of the unrest and disturbance that exists in the world, and no country, no party and no class of people can afford to ignore it? Are we, in this country, to be placed in the position that in following events we are just to read the papers and make up our minds as to what the case is and speak in our own way on the facts and develop public opinion, unguided by any such information, however meagre and however partial, the Government should be able to collect? Surely the Taoiseach realises that in a world situation such as exists we deserve some guidance from the Government and that we are entitled to have whatever information is available to the Government, through the channels through which it usually collects such information? I suggest that should be given us, with whatever advice the Government may care to impart to Parliament while passing on that information.