On the Adjournment, Deputy Byrne is raising the question of the fuel position in Dublin.
Private Deputies' Business. - Adjournment Debate—Fuel Position in Dublin.
The Ceann Comhairle gave me permission to raise on the Adjournment the question of the scarcity of fuel in the City of Dublin. I had given notice to raise also the question of the scarcity of milk, but that would have meant the attendance of two Minister during the short time available for this discussion. I hope on another occasion to raise the question of the seriousness of the scarcity of milk in the city and its effects on the children of Dublin. Today and for the past couple of weeks we have all noticed the serious shortage of fuel of all kinds not only in this city but in the country. I am anxious to know what is the cause of the great scarcity of reasonably dry turf for our people, especially those living in tenements and cottages who have no other fuel for heating or cooking. As a member of the School Meals Committee, I visit some of our schools and see the fires in them completely black out. I see the want of fuel there for the children who are able to attend. The attendance at the schools has gone down considerably because of the terrifically cold weather that we are having.
There is also a scarcity of milk. Today there was neither fuel nor milk in some of the city schools. Will the Minister say whether that is due to scarcity of transport? If so, why is it that some of the hundreds of Army lorries in the Dublin barracks that are ready to go out at a moment's notice are not put at the disposal of those seeking transport to remove turf from the country districts to the city? If there is a scarcity of turf I want to know from him why he is not ordering the turf dumps in Dublin to be opened up. I know they were to be kept for the emergency.
Well, there is an emergency here today. Children and invalids are suffering great hardship, and even people with money, who could pay for a half ton or a ton of turf, are without heating facilities and their children and families are also suffering. My principal reason for drawing attention to this is because of the numerous complaints I got yesterday and the day before from the added areas in the City of Dublin. I refer to Cabra and Cabra West, Crumlin, Larkhill and Kimmage. Yesterday and the day before the depôts in those areas, which supply fuel to the people in two-stone and four-stone lots, did not get supplies until late in the day. I saw women who should be in maternity homes hoisting, in some cases two-stone and in other cases four-stone, lots of turf on their backs to bring home. They had been waiting in a queue for two, three and four hours. Yesterday in Cabra West they had to wait for over four hours. I know the Minister is sympathetic and I know the Government's attitude. I know of their determination to remedy these evils, but I greatly fear that their attention may not have been drawn to them. I am now drawing the Minister's attention to what is going on in and around the city, and in the every heart of the city. You have people in the tenement quarters and in cottages carrying home the turf on their shoulders in two-stone and in four-stone lots. I also saw children of six, eight and ten years of age dragging home sacks of wet turf.
I attended the fuel depôts and saw what was going on. The authorities in charge of them are, apparently, doing everything possible. Every time a lorry of wet turf arrives at a depot it is there only a couple of hours until it is all drawn away by the people I have referred to. I have seen them take it away in perambulators and, in some cases, in baths. I do not mean that in a jocular way. The baths were brought there in order to carry the turf home, and not because it was so wet. Someone who wanted to make a joke might say that it should be sold in gallon lots at a time. The fact that the turf is wet is not due to the fuel authorities but rather to the very bad weather that we have had. More strenuous efforts, I think, ought to be made to bring as much dry turf as possible to the city. Since I do not know what the regulations are I am not suggesting what services should be curtailed.
Nearly all the tenements dwellers in the city have penny-in-the-slot gas meters for cooking purposes. There is the danger that gas may not be available in a very short time. When on a previous occasion I suggested that the Minister himself should go to the other side I was sorry that he took offence at what I said. I think he could do splendid work if, as a Minister of this State, he went across to the other side to see if our friends there could supply us with goods in exchange for what we are giving them. We are giving them butter, eggs, Guinness and beef. I think, because of the services that we are rendering to them, that he might be in a position to ask them to give us a few extra boat loads of coal for our gas service so that those of our people who are entirely dependent on the gas-ring and the penny-in-the-slot would not have to bear any greater hardship than they are bearing at the moment with the small quantity of gas they are getting for cooking purposes. Yesterday, I saw a woman crossing the street from a house—I could give the name and address if required—to another house to use the gas-ring there. She was dependent on turf and she was getting facilities from another occupant of the tenement dwellings who had a gas-ring. That shows a very kindly spirit and one which is creditable to all parties concerned. I am not raising this matter in any complaining or bitter way against the Government or the Minister. I know of his anxiety in the matter but there is a terrible scarcity of fuel. There is very grave hardship to people who have no blankets and little or no clothing. They have to depend on a couple of stones of turf and, now, they are not getting it. I appeal to the Minister to see that they are not asked to bear further hardship.
In view of the uncertainty of the position in England, I think that it is too early to expect the Minister to make a statement on the general prospects here. However, I suggest to him that the House and the country are entitled to know at the earliest possible moment the prospects of importing further supplies of coal. Due to the appallingly bad season and to the very severe winter, the turf available is in many cases of bad quality. But the Minister should endeavour to see that distribution is effective. In many parts of the city and, more particularly, of the county, distribution is, according to my information, ineffective. In the city, there are numerous turf merchants and if the supplies of one turf merchant are not, for some reason, adequate, he can have his quota taken over by somebody else and distributed. In the villages in County Dublin and in certain other parts of the country, there is, in many cases, only one fuel merchant. If that merchant goes out of business, or if, for some reason, he does not get his supplies of turf, the village is left without fuel. I have a particular case in mind and I understand that, in other places, the position is not satisfactory. In the case of which I am thinking, there was one merchants in the village and another in an adjoining village. One of these merchants went out of business owing to illness and the other has ceased to take his quota of turf. The main problem in these cases is one of distribution.
While it may not be possible, until the 1947 crop is available, to increase supplies, the Minister should consider consultation with the Department of Defence and the Department of Lands and Forestry as to the possibility of securing supplies of suitable timber. I realise, of course, that timber suitable for other purposes must be conserved. I appreciate that it may be equally necessary to reserve timber suitable for building but I suggest to the Minister that there are, in parts of the country, adequate supplies of timber suited to domestic fuel purposes. Until there is some prospect of increased supplies of coal or until the 1947 turf crop is available, the Government should consider the possibility of procuring suitable timber supplies. Permits should be given for the cutting of suitable trees on condition that there is replacement of the trees.
In many parts of the country, the only obstacle to obtaining suitable supplies of timber is the Department of Defence regulation regarding the cutting of trees. According to my information—I have had some complaints —it is quite difficult to secure a permit to cut timber. To bridge the gap between now and the time when supplies of turf or some other fuel will be available, the Minister should make representations to the Department of Defence to relax, at least, the prohibition on timber felling.
In certain parts of the city some people have sufficient quantities of turf and timber but, in other parts, they have neither one nor the other, while the restriction on the use of electricity prevents them from using current for the purpose of domestic heating. Consideration should be given to the possibility of relaxing the restriction in those areas, which are, in the main, working-class areas. In some of these areas, the Electricity Supply Board do their own rationing, due to the fact that it is difficult to cut off one consumer without cutting off the others. Until some other means of heating is available, consideration should be given to the possibility of allowing electric current to be used for that purpose on the ground that, while these people have neither turf nor timber, others have both. Many of the persons to whom I refer are labouring under great hardships. The Minister is aware of that. I suggest to him that one of the problems in the immediate future will be to distribute the turf and timber which is in the dumps or in stock. The Minister should at first opportunity inform the House of the prospects of obtaining additional fuel.
I should like to learn from the Minister whether he is satisfied with the machinery at the disposal of his Department for advising him as to the fuel requirements not only of Dublin City but of other parts of the country. What kind of machinery is at the disposal of the Minister for that purpose? There is a shortage of turf not only in the city but in the turf areas which would normally supply the city. In three of the larger towns in my constituency—towns surrounded by the biggest bogs in the Midlands, including Clonsast bog—there was a definite shortage of fuel last week so far as the poorer classes were concerned.
I was assured by the Minister some time ago that he was taking steps to relieve the position in one town. I am told that satisfactory steps have not been taken in that regard. If turf cannot be got in sufficient quantities for those who require it in the City of Dublin or elsewhere, there should, surely, be some way of getting timber. If the Minister were to make an appeal to the landowners and, particularly, to the Department of Lands and Forestry, some relief might be obtained in that regard. There is too much red tape surrounding the official attitude of the Department of Forestry in regard to issuing permits for the cutting of timber. In emergency conditions like the present, these red tape regulations should be removed. I hope the Minister will use his influence with the Department concerned for that particular purpose. There is plenty of timber in the rural areas suitable for firewood and if turf cannot be got —and I realise that a sufficient quantity of the proper type of turf cannot be got—the Minister should fall back on the substitute, namely, timber.
It is ridiculous for Deputy Byrne to suggest at this particular period that the Minister should cross over in an aeroplane, if available, to ask the Minister for Fuel and Power in London to give us more coal. If they have not sufficient coal for themselves, I do not suppose that we can force them to give us some. It appears to me that coal will not be available for domestic purposes for some considerable time. I laughed a few nights ago when, from the top of a tram going to Dalkey, I read an illuminated advertisement in Westmoreland Street appealing to people to buy So-and-So's coal for domestic use. It was a brilliant electric advertisement—I will not mention the name—and I think that kind of thing should be cut out in present circumstances. It would not appeal to the imagination of Deputy Byrne's friends, who cannot get coal, turf, or timber.
Deputies must not discuss this fuel position as if it were an administrative problem which could be put right by giving the right orders to somebody. We have here to deal with facts and the first fact. I want the House to appreciate is that, if unfavourable weather conditions continue, we are facing, not merely in Dublin but over a great part of the country, a first-class crisis so far as domestic fuel supplies are concerned.
It is the first time it was admitted.
On the contrary, I have made statements to similar effect on many occasions recently, in this Dáil and outside it. The position is that, so far as the eastern non-turf area is concerned, the total supplies of fuel in the dumps are barely sufficient to maintain the ration for the present rationing period, including all the turf in the dumps, good, bad and indifferent. Most Deputies will understand that it is not possible to work down to bare boards in distributing supplies of that nature and that inevitably, if the weather remains as it is, before the end of the ration period there will be portions of the area in which supplies will not be available at all.
Cut timber.
I want to make it quite clear that the problem we are facing as regards fuel supplies in Dublin and elsewhere is entirely due to the weather conditions. Deputies may not like to face realities, but they must do so if they want to understand this situation. The total quantity of turf produced for the national pool last year by the various concerns producing for that pool—the county councils, Bord na Móna and private producers—was as large as in any previous year. In fact, it was somewhat larger, but because of the abnormal weather which was experienced last autumn, 100,000 tons of turf produced for the turf dumps could not be taken from the bogs and transported to the dumps. It was reasonable to assume last September and October, during the downpour, that a period of dry weather would follow in which that position could be remedied; but, as everybody now knows, there was no break in the bad weather, and during the past month we have had conditions which are entirely abnormal to this country.
There were some reserve stocks in the turf dumps carried over from the previous year's crop and it is those stocks which are now being utilised, but they are being very rapidly exhausted. Under the best conditions that we can conceive—and I am referring now mainly to weather conditions —the most that we can hope to do is to carry on the bare minimum of the ordinary ration in the non-turf area until the new crop becomes available without any reserve to carry forward into the next year. Under unfavourable conditions, we will have to face a reduction of the ration. Under the worst conditions, there will be no fuel and there is nothing we can do about it.
I am told to cut timber. I do not believe that the quantity of firewood timber available in the vicinity of Dublin is large. During the emergency it was practically all utilised and, although every facility has been given to fuel merchants and other persons who might be interested in that business to acquire and transport that timber for sale here, the quantity coming in has fallen to practically negligible dimensions during the past year.
Deputies have made remarks about the quality of the turf. That is determined largely by weather conditions. The turf in the dumps suffered very severely because of the abnormal weather during the past month. There is no use in complaining about the quality. There can be no improvement in quality unless we get an improvement in the weather. Even a comparatively short spell of dry weather would mean a substantial improvement in the quality of the turf coming from the dumps. We would require a longer, more protracted period of dry weather before the 100,000 tons in the bogs could be properly conditioned and transported to the non-turf area. All the supplies under the control of Bord na Móna which were in any condition for use and accessible for transportation have been brought into Dublin in the past week.
Deputy Byrne spoke about the fuel depots. My remarks concerning the availability of supplies and the quality of turf referred to turf sold in the ordinary way on the ration. As regards the turf which is distributed under the free fuel scheme and the cheap fuel scheme, these supplies are safe and will continue to be available. The turf supplied under these schemes is machine-won turf from the mechanised bogs of Bord na Móna and is of good quality. There is no reasonable ground for complaint concerning that turf.
There are special difficulties affecting distribution which also must be noted. First of all, the demand for turf in Dublin and throughout the eastern area has gone up extraordinarily this winter. In each month of this winter, it was 50 per cent. higher than in the same month of the previous year. There are, perhaps, a number of reasons for that increase of demand. There was the abnormally harsh wet weather experienced, which made people draw their full ration who might not otherwise have done so. There was the exhaustion of reserves of other fuels that might have been held and the depleted inflow of firewood. There was also the fact that many Dublin families, the members of which worked all the summer to cut turf for themselves, in the Dublin mountain area, were unable to save it and had to fall back on the ordinary ration. There is also, as the recent census shows, a substantial rise in population in this part of Ireland. During recent weeks, distribution has been disorganised, mainly as everybody knows on account of the abnormal snowfalls and the icy conditions of the streets which slowed down distribution.
There is another reason, however, why the distribution is slow and difficult at the present time. Ordinarily, the extraction of turf from the turf dumps in the Phoenix Park could be facilitated by having a large number of loading points situated a considerable distance apart in the large ricks.
With the contraction of the total supply in the dumps, the area in which that supply is located has also contracted, and consequently only a smaller number of loading points can be operated and the lorries and carts drawing turf have to queue up for supplies. That physical difficulty is slowing down delivery and it is unavoidable until fresh supplies of turf in usable condition begin to flow in from the country areas. The position, therefore, is this that, with any reasonable kind of weather, Dublin can get through this fuel crisis without undue hardship. If, however, weather conditions continue as they have been for the past month, we are facing the worst experience of the war.
Deputies may ask if I have any advice to give. There is one advice I should like to give. There may be people who have got reserves of turf saved from previous ration periods, or stocks of firewood, or who for some reason may be able to postpone ordering or purchasing turf now. If there are any such people, I would urge them to do so. By avoiding or by postponing ordering turf now from their suppliers, they will not merely facilitate the distribution of the available supplies to those whose need is greatest, but will also be benefiting themselves, because it is a reasonable assumption that, if we have fair weather conditions, the turf available later on in the ration period will be of better quality and in drier condition than that now being distributed.
I should like Deputies to understand, however, that this is a serious situation, a situation which is due to the abnormal weather conditions of the past six months and is independent of the coal situation. I had hoped, during the latter part of last year, when our coal supplies were improving, that we might at some stage begin to accumulate a stock of coal which could during the winter be made available, even if in very small quantities, for domestic purposes.
In the event, however our imports of coal contracted drastically before Christmas, fell during the weeks after Christmas to much less than half of what they had previously been in each week, and now have ceased altogether, so that the prospect of easing our domestic fuel situation by the utilisation of coal has disappeared. We can, I think, expect—we can certainly pray for—good weather in the coming weeks. If we get that good weather, we will get through this period of crisis. If we do not get that good weather, we are in for a very bad time indeed.
Has the Minister considered the possibility of getting any coal from America?
Arrangements are being made to import coal from America in whatever quantities it will be released, but there is no likelihood of that coal arriving here in time to deal with the immediate situation.
Will the Minister have the restrictions on timber felling relaxed?
So far as I am aware, there are no restrictions requiring relaxation on the felling of timber of firewood quality. There are, of course, people anxious to fell timber of commercial quality, but we have, in addition to this fuel crisis, a timber crisis, and it would, I think, be undesirable to permit people to use timber of commercial quality for firewood purposes. There are many classes of timber unsuitable for firewood purposes, but, so far as I am aware, nobody who is interested in procuring supplies of firewood timber has been prevented from doing so by the restrictions to which the Deputy refers.
Will the Minister consider increasing the price of timber for fuel in the City of Cork, because I am informed that timber would be available but for the fact that the price does not pay them to bring it in?
I doubt very much if that is correct.
That is so.
Has the Minister ever considered, or will he consider now, the erection of large open sheds for the protection of the turf in the Park? It has often amazed me that that has not been done. I should have thought it would be done right away.
And erect them with timber, I suppose?
There is plenty of timber in the country to do that.
I wish there was.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 13th February, 1947.