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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 11 Mar 1947

Vol. 104 No. 13

The Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited (Acquisition of Shares) Bill, 1947—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. Deputies who are familiar with the provisions of the Insurance (Amendment) Act, 1938, will recall that after the passage of that Act two new companies were established for the purpose of dealing with industrial and life assurance. The first of these companies, which during the discussions on the 1938 Act, we, for convenience sake, called the terminating company, is entitled the Industrial and Life Assurance Amalgamation Company, Limited. That amalgamation company was set up for the purpose of taking over the business of the various participating companies which had entered into agreements for the transfer of their business to the new company. Four Irish companies and five British companies agreed to the necessary transfer. The authorised share capital of the amalgamation company is £200,010 divided into 2,000,000 ordinary A shares of 2/- each and 100 B shares of 2/- each. The 100 B shares alone carry voting rights and are held by the Minister for Finance, giving him control of the company.

The companies which transferred their business to the amalgamation company were not paid any cash in consideration of the transfer but instead were allotted A shares in the amalgamation company, the number of shares in each case being determined by the measure of the particular company's premium income and the degree of solvency of its funds. Under the provisions of the Insurance Act of 1938 the Minister for Finance was required to make good any deficiency in the assets of the Irish companies concerned with the amalgamation and in consideration of his doing so, he was allotted in addition to the B shares, which carry voting rights and control of the company, a total of 191,051 2/- shares in the terminating company.

In addition to the terminating company the Act of 1938 also established another public limited liability company which is called the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, and which was incorporated as a permanent company for the purpose of taking a transfer of staffs and the goodwill of any new business of the amalgamating companies. The authorised capital of the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, is £200,000 divided into 200,000 ordinary shares of £1 each, all of which has been issued and taken up as arranged by the terminating company. It was arranged, as contemplated in 1938, that the terminating company should confine itself to the taking over of the business then existing of each of the amalgamating companies and to the working off of that business as a closed fund after which it was contemplated that the terminating company should be liquidated and the surplus assets divided amongst its shareholders in proportion to their shareholding. The result of that arrangement would be that when liquidation had taken place, the majority of the shareholding in the Irish Assurance Company would be in the hands of the British participating offices since the shareholding in the terminating company worked out on the following basis: 9.4 per cent. of the shares are held by the participating Irish companies, 72 per cent. by the participating English companies, and 18.6 per cent. by the Minister for Finance.

For some years past, I have had under consideration the position which would arise when the terminating company had ceased to exist and the majority of the shares in the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, would pass to external ownership. It was felt that while that position had been foreseen when the Act of 1938 was passed, it was undesirable that the majority shareholding in the largest permanent Irish life office should be in external ownership. To solve this difficulty it was decided that an effort should be made to acquire the shares in the terminating company owned by the British participating offices. Negotiations have been carried on over the past few years and a provisional agreement has already been arrived at under the terms of which the British participating offices have agreed to sell 737,984 shares to the Minister for Finance at a price of 3/- per share involving a total payment of £110,697 12s. 0d.

I have pointed out that under the present constitution of the amalgamation company control is exercised by the Minister for Finance by reason of his holding of the B shares. He also controls, therefore, the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, because all the shares of the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, are held by the terminating company. That control, however, would have disappeared on the liquidation of the terminating company but it will be permanently secured through the purchase of the shareholding of the British participating offices.

To carry the provisional agreement into effect and to provide for an issue from the Exchequer amounting to £110,697 12s. 0d. to pay for the shares at 3/- each, this Bill is necessary. The House will, no doubt, wish to know how the purchase price of 3/- per share has been arrived at. The nominal value of the shares is, as I have said, 2/- each. I would, however, remind Deputies of the statement which I made when the Insurance Act of 1938 was under consideration by the House. I explained then that these 2/- shares were merely tokens by which the equity in the terminating company could be distributed amongst the nine companies involved in the amalgamation. Almost any value could have been placed upon the shares in so far as the sole purpose of their creation was to divide the equity upon an agreed basis between the various companies participating but it was considered desirable to fix a low nominal value, 2/- per share, so as to keep the goodwill figure at a low level in order that that intangible asset might in time be eliminated from the Company's balance sheet. It was considered then, and I was advised by those who were arranging the amalgamation, that in time the value of these 2/- shares might be expected to reach a substantial figure and a figure as high as 15/- per share had been estimated by some of those concerned. However, I wish to emphasise the fact that the nominal value of 2/- had no special significance and the issue of shares was merely a system of measuring the value of the assets and goodwill of the businesses transferred.

When negotiations were taking place recently with the British offices for the purchase of their shares in the terminating company, these offices put a value substantially above 3/- each on their shares and it was only after protracted negotiations that the figure of 3/- per share was arrived at. I am satisfied that the price is a reasonable one and I so recommend it to the Dáil.

Were any of these shares quoted on the Stock Exchange?

No. When the Insurance Act of 1938 was under consideration here it was assumed that, from the arrangement set out in the Act, when the terminating company had worked off all its business and had been liquidated, the control of the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, that is, the permanent company, would then fall into the hands of the shareholders of that company and that the interests of the Minister for Finance would be measured by the extent of his shareholding in that company which, as I have stated, amounted to about 18 per cent. of the ordinary shares. That position was clearly foreseen, but while I was never completely happy as to the ultimate position in view of the heavy State contribution which proved to be necessary to make up the deficiency in the assets of certain Irish offices participating in the amalgamation, which amounted to £1,053,770, it was inevitable in view of the terms of the scheme to which all the participating companies had agreed.

Since the Irish Assurance Company was established it has made substantial progress and in normal circumstances it is bound to be a very important concern in this country. As the company developed its strength and increased its activities throughout the State, the fact that the British companies would, through their shareholding have control of the company, became a matter for serious consideration. So long as the terminating company remained in existence, control was in the hands of the Minister for Finance and it was felt that the control should continue for the longest possible time. That being the position, there was objection to bringing the activities of the terminating company to an end by winding it up, even though such a step would confer many advantages upon the Irish Assurance Company, Limited. In the new circumstances following the enactment of this Bill and the completion of the agreement for the purchase of the shares from the British participating companies, the Minister for Finance will hold just about 90 per cent. of the ordinary shares of the Irish Assurance Company when the terminating company has been wound up and the boards of the two companies and the Minister for Finance will then be free to take such decisions as they consider desirable without being faced with the position where control by the Minister for Finance would have disappeared. It may therefore happen that in the near future the business of the terminating company may be wound up and the assets and liabilities of that company transferred to the Irish Assurance Company, Limited.

I think this Bill provides a sound method for dealing with the future of industrial and life assurances through the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, and since the arrangement with the British offices has been carried out in complete harmony and goodwill on both sides, there is, in my opinion, no reason why there should be any objection to the Bill. It is realised that in future the State, instead of being a minority shareholder in the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, will be the majority shareholder, but there will still be the interest of the Irish offices, whose shareholding interest will be represented by over 9 per cent. of the issued share capital of that company. Moreover, the Bill will secure that an important Irish insurance company with very substantial assets will not be in external control but will be solely in the control of the people of this country.

From what the Minister says now, when the Irish Assurance Company has been left as the sole company here we will be left with a Life and Industrial Insurance Company that will be practically a State monopoly?

It will not have a monopoly, of course. There are other companies besides this.

The State will have a monopoly of control.

The State will control it. The Minister for Finance controls it now and will always control it so long as the terminating company is in existence. It would pass from his hands only if the terminating company were wound up.

The result will be a State company?

I would like also to ask the Minister what will the final capital of that company be and will that be, as it were, a fictitious sum?

The capital is £200,000. That is the share capital of the Irish Assurance Company.

That is at the present moment £200,000, but you have the terminating company at present and that has a capital also?

Is that capital fictitious?

There was no money subscribed. The nine companies that participated in the amalgamation each received a number of shares, the number being determined in accordance with the value of the assets they were transferring and the value of the business they were transferring and the degree of solvency. The Minister for Finance also came into possession of certain shares because he had to make good deficiencies in the assets of the Irish company but no money passed for those shares which were issued solely to measure the relative claims of the various companies participating.

So that we will be left with a Government insurance company with a capital of £200,000 of which 90.6 per cent. will be owned by the Government?

Will be owned by the State.

And these will be £ shares?

£ shares.

If the arrangement which the Minister now proposes becomes effective, will it mean that the Irish company will take over responsibility for all insurance or will payment be made subject to the conditions prevailing with the English company from whom the insurance payments would otherwise have become due?

There are two companies now. The first company is working a closed fund. It took over the assets and the liabilities of the amalgamating companies. All these companies had a different system of working and different contracts with their clients. The first company, the terminating company, is carrying on these existing contracts.

The payments maturing are conditional on the financial condition of each of the companies concerned.

No. The people who hold policies issued by the nine amalgamating companies are getting under these policies the benefits for which they contracted. In addition, there was established the Irish Assurance Company, Limited, which did all new business on its own policies and on its own conditions. The terminating company is doing no new business. The permanent company took over none of the old business. It was contemplated, of course, that at some stage the terminating company would in fact terminate and that the two undertakings would be amalgamated. That has not been practicable up to the present, because the effect of that termination would be to transfer control of the permanent company to the British offices. Following this agreement and the enactment of this Bill, it can be done now, because the amalgamation of the two companies will not have that consequence.

The amalgamation ensures that in future the Irish company will have sole responsibility and full control. Will they alone be responsible for future payment of all endowment insurances which will mature?

By the old companies, yes. The enactment of this Bill, of course, does not necessarily compel or involve the amalgamation of the two companies. What I said is that the enactment of this Bill will remove the obvious difficulty in taking that step which has existed up to the present. It may be assumed to be likely there will be an amalgamation of the two companies. In any event, the terminating company will continue to service the contracts taken over from the original amalgamating companies until that business is transferred to the Irish Assurance Company, Limited.

Transferred to the Irish Assurance Company by allowing them to mature and not to die out. If that be the plan, I am sure the Minister has considered what will be the reaction on the policy holders here in the ordinary way, apart from the guaranteed policies under which certain interests are guaranteed by the different companies. The ordinary policy with profits ensures that at the end of a period of years a certain sum is payable according to the financial prosperity of the company with whom the person has insured. Probably the Minister has examined the matter and is satisfied that the Irish Assurance Company will be able to pay, on maturity, benefits to the policy holders equivalent to the benefits which they would have received if no change had been made and if they were paid out of the funds of the different English companies with whom the people held contracts. I am sure the Minister has considered that, as it is a very important matter. He is now purchasing at 3/- per share an original assessment of 2/-. I quite agree that the 2/- was a nominal assessment. I am sure that in doing that he has had the advantage of the actuarial investigation which is necessary in the case of assessing insurance companies as well as other companies, but particularly insurance companies.

I should like to remind the Minister that he referred to the deficiencies of the Irish offices which the Government had to make up at the amalgamation period. I want to remind the Minister that since the amalgamation it has been generally accepted that a serious mistake was made in connection with the taking over of the English offices by the new company here, the result being that a substantial loss was incurred owing to under-estimating the liabilities under contracts made by some particular English offices operating in this country prior to the amalgamation. As a result of that, the policy holders here are at a decided disadvantage. I am sure the Minister's proposal is quite good, both nationally and financially, but I would point out to him, as an insurance man of some experience, that there were a few points raised by him which caused me to make reference to them. Probably he has considered them; I am sure he has. But, having experience of insurance, I consider it is advisable to mention these things.

So far as the terminating company is concerned, there will, I think, be no question about its solvency. The whole purpose of that scheme was to effect an amalgamation of industrial life insurance business with a view to the improvements that could be achieved in the carrying on of that business in this country and also to rescue the policy holders of a number of Irish companies which were in a definitely insecure state. Each of the British companies transferred to the terminating company not merely their liabilities to policy holders here, but also funds which were regarded as adequate to cover all these liabilities. The Irish offices were not able to transfer funds adequate to cover the liabilities and the deficiency was made up by the Minister for Finance. The the theory was that the terminating company operating that closed fund getting, from its investments, sufficient income to meet its liabilities as they accrued, would ultimately reach a stage where it would have no liabilities but only assets and that at that stage those assets would be distributed amongst the nine amalgamating companies. It is considered preferable now to effect the elimination of the British companies under this scheme and to bring the two companies together, that is the company operating the closed fund and the company carrying on the new business, the permanent company.

Has the Minister fully considered the effect of closing all the existing organisations and the amalgamation of the two companies in regard to the liability to policy holders?

That is a matter to be considered. When the two companies are being amalgamated, it will be necessary to take steps to ensure that the funds which represent the cover for the liabilities of the amalgamating companies now being carried by the terminating company will be segregated, so that the policy holders will have the same security, irrespective of what may happen to the business of the permanent company. I think it will be quite practicable to cover that. Of course, the permanent company is also developing——

It would be difficult to estimate what would be the position of the policy holders whose insurance is maturing ten years hence; the profits that will then accrue from the English companies with whom the original contracts were made.

Bringing in the question of profits is a complication, because the distribution of bonuses is conditional on the profits assessed at the amalgamation.

No, I disagree with the Minister. The policy holders have been paid all the way through since the amalgamation by the British offices on the profits accruing from year to year.

Up to the date of the amalgamation.

And since. There is no doubt about that.

On the date of the amalgamation each company transferred its liability and the amount required to cover that liability.

Maturing policies have been paid by the British companies before the amalgamation and since on the profits they made.

Not since, because since the amalgamation the companies transferred the business completely to the terminating company. Those who had become entitled to profits before that got those profits.

If that is so, how is it that the profits during the last four years paid on maturing insurance policies have been lessened by the English companies and that in an accompanying note they state that, due to the war emergencies, they were not able to pay the rates they were paying up to 1940? They were paying 1 per cent. as against 2 per cent. If the arrangement existed, how did that condition prevail?

This may perhaps be the cause of the misunderstanding. The business transferred to the amalgamating company by the amalgamating companies was industrial life business. There are a number of British companies carrying on ordinary life business. That was not covered by the amalgamation. Industrial life business only was transferred.

It is not proposed to include in this merger any endowments insurance?

No. It was only the industrial items that were transferred. Of course, the new permanent company is doing not merely industrial life but ordinary, but, in fact, none of the British companies needed to transfer ordinary life business and there are, in fact, as the Deputy knows, a number of British companies still doing ordinary life business.

Question put and agreed to.

I suggest that we take the Committee Stage some day this week. There is nothing in the Bill.

There seems to be a lot behind it, all the same.

The Bill on the whole is very simple.

Committee Stage ordered for Thursday, 13th March.
[Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted and 20 Deputies being present.]
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