Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Mar 1947

Vol. 104 No. 17

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate—Spring Agricultural Work.

Minister for Agriculture (Mr. Smith)

I move: "That the Dáil do now adjourn." The House is aware that I received to-day notice from the Leader of the Opposition inviting me to make a statement on the present position regarding tillage. I may assume that members of the House and of the general public need no words from me to bring home to them the gravity of the situation that confronts us all. We have passed the middle of March and we find ourselves in the position that there is, roughly, somewhat in excess of 2,000,000 acres of land to be ploughed if we are to reach the tillage achievement of last year. In any discussion that we have here. I invite members of the House to apply themselves to what we can do, what the Government can do, how the public can assist, and how local authorities can co-operate, in bringing whatever encouragement and assistance it is possible to bring to the agricultural community, to the farmers and farm labourers, in tackling this problem, assuming that, with the help of God, the weather is now about to take up.

There was no public discussion on this matter up to quite recently, and, in a way, I think the idea has been spread that I and the Department of Agriculture, and indeed the Government as a whole, have been neglectful in not treating this position more seriously. Having regard to the weather, to the fact that for the past two months the rain, frost, snow and sleet have been hitting the farmers and those who are working on the land, it would not, to my mind, be much encouragement to have all types of public discussion as to what the farmer could do when he finds himself in the circumstances I have outlined, circumstances of which everyone is aware. In the Department we have been asking ourselves for weeks, in the event of the Almighty God deciding to give us better weather, what we could do, what forces we could release and organise, in order to come to his assistance immediately on the farmer being able to make a start.

When I saw some of the suggestions and the criticisms that made their appearance during the past few days, I asked myself was it stupidity on our part that we could not see that there was lurking there a means by which we could come to the farmer's rescue and so enable him to give us the tillage acreage we require. Recently, I met a number of representatives of county committees of agriculture; I also met a number of farmers; in fact, I met everybody who asked to see me and from whom I thought I could get advice—people whom I thought would have ideas different from my own as to the manner in which this huge problem might be tackled.

I must confess that, as a result of these discussions with men actively engaged in agriculture, I have satisfied myself that it was not stupidity on our part, but that it was clearly a matter of having brought home forcibly to me the severity of the limitations imposed on us all in helping in this crisis.

Everyone knows that before you sow you must plough, and in order to plough you must have tractors, machinery, horses and the men to handle them. In this country we have about 7,000 tractors equipped with all the attachments necessary to cultivate the land. In addition, we have horses and the other agricultural implements that our farmers possess. All these things would have enabled us to handle the tillage problem without any difficulty, but, as the country well knows, the tractors have been idle, the horses have had to remain in their stables and the men have also been idle. We have now to ask ourselves what we can do, in the limited time at our disposal, in order that the fullest use may be made of the machinery and the men available to ensure a good harvest.

In addition to those tractors which I have mentioned, there are also a number of industrial tractors. I am not in a position to say exactly what that number is but some weeks ago instructions were issued to the outdoor staff —tillage inspectors and others in my Department—to go around and to make a census of these tractors, to see where they are, who owns them and the purposes for which they are being used and as well as that to find out to what extent they are suitable for tillage operations. Some weeks ago we also made contact with the Department of Industry and Commerce and we asked them to see to it that kerosene and petrol would be ready at hand in the event of the weather conditions improving, so that there would be no hold-up whatever in this work. We have also asked the tractor owners themselves to put themselves in possession of at least two weeks' supply so that there could be no possible danger of there being any tractors that would not be fully utilised.

As Deputies are also aware, permits were issued to those tractor owners for the months of January, February and March which enabled them to get kerosene that could not be used by them in tractors at that time. We have asked the Department of Industry and Commerce to validate these permits. They are also issuing permits for the month of April at once so that the farmers who are in possession of these machines will be able to get their kerosene not only for the present period but for the months in which they were not able to engage in the work for which these permits were intended.

Complaints were made some time ago as to the attitude of Corás Iompair Éireann in the matter of the transport of agricultural machinery and parts. We have been in contact with that organisation and we have got from them an assurance that these implements and parts will in future get a high priority.

The suggestion has been made to me that a number of private owners of tractors, people who had tractors for their own use and who might not have these tractors fully occupied, should be called upon to make these machines available to their neighbours and to ensure that they would have a much greater output of work than in the normal course they would be called upon to produce. I must say that while I should like to find some means by which effect would be given to that suggestion I leave it to members of the House, if they can think of any way in which the owners of these machines could be induced voluntarily to take that course. I should be very glad to hear of any suggestions in regard to that matter. It seems to me that in this matter we must depend on appealing to those farmers who find themselves in that position, to co-operate to the fullest extent with their neighbours, to assist their neighbours, and, within reason, to make these tractors available for work in addition to that which they will be called on to perform on the owners' farms. That is what we have been doing for some time past in relation to the tractor position.

I cannot think of any other steps we could take in order to make the fullest use of the machinery that is in the country. The way in which we have endeavoured to go about that task is to get into contact with the committees of agriculture. We have asked the committees of agriculture to take up this work of locating machinery and co-ordinating all these efforts inside their area—co-ordinating all the efforts not only of their own staff and our outdoor staff but, as well, the staffs that are being released on the instructions of the Department of Local Government by county councils.

We have asked the secretaries of county committees of agriculture and chief agricultural officers to make themselves responsible for the co-ordination of effort inside their areas so that those industrial tractors to which I have referred will be located, that the owners will be approached and invited to make the tractors available for work on the land. We have asked them to find out where these tractors are most required and, having found out these things, to give effect to our general recommendations. We have also asked that organisation to make itself responsible for the compilation of a register of men who would be technically suited and who possess the technical knowledge that would enable them to drive and manipulate a tractor. We have to be careful of that because many of the private owners who will be asked to hand over their machines for this all-important effort, will naturally want to feel that the men into whose hands they are being put will be men, so far as the supervisory organisation can determine it, to whom these machines can be safely entrusted.

We have given some thought to the fact that even if we had a large number, which unfortunately we have not, of such industrial tractors, they would not be fitted with the necessary equipment to enable them to engage in the tillage drive. We think, seeing that the number is so small and that the season is so advanced, that these tractors could be used by a farmer who might have his own tractor working ploughing while these could be used for sowing. That is, I think, the only purpose to which this particular type of tractor can be applied. I believe that there will be ample work to keep the limited number that will be found to be there fully engaged in other tillage operations, and to Deputies who would ask me how these tractors are to be used, since they are not fully equipped to engage in agricultural work, that is the only reply I can make.

That is the general picture of the instructions we have issued to the secretaries and agricultural officers in the different counties and I want all the officials—our own officials who are engaged on outdoor work and county councils who have agreed to offer their services and to release their casual workers—to realise that it is the chief agricultural officer or secretary of the county committee of agriculture who should co-ordinate all the effort in the different counties, and it is to him that all these other officials should look for guidance and direction as to the way in which the work is to be done and as to the type of work to be undertaken.

It has been suggested to me, too, that some effort should be made to organise local committees in the different towns and villages for the purpose of assisting in this drive. I can only say that the time at our disposal is limited and the time it would take for these officials to go out and undertake that task would be fairly substantial. My advice to all these well-intentioned people and all those in the towns and cities, and especially in the towns and villages, who are anxious to co-operate in this desperate situation, is to form a small committee of their own and notify the chief agricultural officer or secretary of the county committee of what they have done, and that such committee should then proceed to an examination of the problems as they understand them in their own immediate locality and to set about trying to devise some means by which they can be of assistance to the people who will be engaged night and day in working on the land when weather permits.

What can such a committee do? What assistance can such committee give? The extent to which such a committee can offer assistance in the initial stages of this drive, in my view, is in organising in their town or village whatever transport may be available. If a farmer wants to get a load of artificial manure or wants to get some seeds delivered over a distance of two, three, four, five or six miles, they would compile a list of such farmers, from whom they would receive requests as to their requirements and where these requirements were to be obtained, and would organise whatever transport was there so that these manures and seeds might be delivered to the farmer at his home and so to relieve him of the necessity of taking out his horse or tractor on a good day and setting off to the town for them. That is one fairly important contribution which such a committee could make. There may be other ways in which local committees, if brought into existence, could help, but it is for them, with their local knowledge, to discuss these matters. If they can see something which I at the moment cannot see, they would be there to execute whatever plan they might decide upon as another step in the direction of bringing further help to the farmers.

I am dealing now with the ploughing and sowing of the land and I am coming to the planting of the potato crop. In the ploughing of the land and sowing of the seed, of the wheat, oats, barley and beet, I cannot see to what considerable extent other than that to which I have referred, the manpower outside those employed in the industry could be brought to bear on the agricultural problem as it now exists. There might be, when we come to the planting of the potato crop, a further contribution which could be made through good organisation and the provision of the type of labour that was made available during the harvest period, but it would, as I said at the outset, be entirely inaccurate, in my view, to compare the harvest position with the position which exists now. Everyone here, and especially those who are associated with the land, will realise that if on a harvest day, ten, 15, 20 or 30 men present themselves with their hands in their pockets to a farmer in a field, during a good hour or two they can be of enormous value to him, but, faced with the present position, if a farmer is presented with ten, 15 or 20 men, there is very little use he can make of them.

It seems to me that the lengths to which we can go to assist him are confined to the points I have mentioned— so far as the local organisation is concerned, to see to it that it is not necessary for him to leave the field for the purpose of getting his seeds or manures, and in certain areas it might be possible to give him some help in the spreading of manures and the dropping of seed potatoes.

If there are Deputies who have ideas other than, or in addition to those I have mentioned, I shall naturally be very anxious to hear them. I invite, seeing that the weather, I hope, is going to take up, all these people, if they are anxious to take part, as, I am sure, everybody must be, in this campaign, not to wait but to organise their little committees and examine the farmers' problems with their own local knowledge and to bring whatever assistance they can to him within the next five or six weeks.

Undoubtedly there is a number of people in those cities and towns and villages who would be anxious to do everything in their power and who would be prepared to make a substantial sacrifice. I have been wondering if such committees, since they cannot be called upon to the extent to which we would be glad to call upon them, if it were possible, would take it on themselves, as an indication of their appreciation of the dangers to which we are exposed, to hire or rent, say, ten, 12, 15, 20 or whatever number of acres the population of the particular locality would justify and to plant potatoes.

While it might not make any great contribution to the amount of food we require, at least it could be regarded as a very useful gesture on their part if, in the locality, they could collect subscriptions from traders and people who are fairly well off, for the purpose of renting a certain amount of land, on which they could employ whatever surplus labour or free labour that is available. That would be a very useful work especially in view of the fact that we cannot avail of the services that they would be very keen to offer to the farming community. I am merely throwing that out as a suggestion to them. The planting of the potato crop is not the most urgent. It is certainly not the least important. There is ample time during which these committees, if brought into existence, could apply themselves to that task. I say they could not direct their energies to a more useful type of work.

When dealing with that matter, I should like to refer to another aspect of the case, that is, the attitude of certain people towards those plot-holders for whom local authorities, for the past number of years, have made land available for cultivation. Long before the emergency in which we now find ourselves arose, I must confess that I was terribly disappointed because of the attitude of some of those people towards the efforts that were being made on their behalf by the local authorities. I do not think the word "disappointed" accurately expresses my feeling in the matter.

Members of this House are aware that for years past it has been the policy of local authorities to provide plots of ground for the unemployed at a nominal rent, that seeds, implements and spraying materials have been provided free of charge, that all the necessary instruction, co-operation and guidance that could be offered by the officials of my Department have been given to them freely. When members of the House consider the figures for the past few years they will agree that the word "disappointed" is far too mild. I do not understand the mentality that will refuse to take advantage of the facilities given through this scheme. It is well that it should be brought home to those people who are unable to find work and who are being provided with an amount that, having regard to all other matters, is not very large, but which is being provided by the taxpaper and who are being asked to till a plot of ground that is provided for them on the conditions which I have mentioned, that they have displayed indifference as revealed by the figures I have before me.

The number of allotments that were taken up by the unemployed in 1939 was 5,059; in 1940, 8,990; in 1941, 21,387; 1942, 23,512; 1943, 20,181; 1944, 18,028; 1945, 16,088; 1946, 13,855.

General Mulcahy

What acreage does that represent?

Mr. Smith

Each of these plots would be about one-eighth of an acre. Plots are also provided for employed persons by local authorities but they are provided under different conditions. The employed person has to pay for the plot and to provide out of his own resources the seeds, manures and equipment that are necessary. The strange part is that the figures for that class show a contrary trend. In 1939 the number of such plots tilled was 500; in 1940, 900; 1941, 9,208; 1942, 12,000; 1943, 12,196; 1944, 12,000; 1945, 12,150; 1946, 11,970— showing that in so far as this particular class was concerned, of persons who, I assume, had not very much time for the purpose of cultivating a plot, the figures have been consistently the same since 1942.

I want to say to the unemployed, that I can quite understand that if a man is looking for work, there may be certain circumstances by which he might not be free to take a plot with any certainty that he will be able to work it, but that these figures are a great reflection on them. Within the last two or three years I have met a number of these people. I have asked them questions in regard to this matter. I have tried to find out from them the reason for their failure. I have asked them had they any appreciation of what they were expecting the farming community and the farm workers to do for them, did they think it fair to stand idly by and fritter away their time while these plots were there derelict, while they were looking to the farmers and to the workers to provide them and their families with food in the awful times through which we are passing? I want to bring home to every one of those people that they are far indeed from discharging their responsibility to their families and that they have very little regard to the enormous task that is confronting every section of the community by this particular type of behaviour. As far as I am personally concerned, if I could go further than that, I would be very glad to do so in order to ensure that they would display an entirely different type of attitude, not only for the purpose of relieving the rest of the community but of bringing home to them that they have responsibilities and that they must discharge them.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. Smith

I have given you that outline of this problem that we all see. I invited the members of the House, in my opening remarks, to apply themselves to this problem and the means which we have for dealing with it, and, within those limits, to give me whatever advice has occurred to their minds as to further steps that may be taken in order to help those on whom the major portion of this task must fall. The farmers are perfectly conscious of the enormous responsibility that weighs upon them at this moment. The farmers have been searching the sky; they have been watching the heavens, and looking to Almighty God to send them a break in the weather to enable them to get on with the job. Nobody knows the position better than the farmer. To a great extent we are limited in coming to his assistance, and, to my mind, we are not going to help him, we are not going to please him, we are not going to do the whole community any good by in any way painting the picture that there has been any failure to appreciate the enormity of what confronts them. I believe myself that the farmer is fully conscious of the dangers to which he and all of us are exposed by this terrible position. I believe that he will work to the last and not only that, but his workers also will do everything in their power in order to meet this crisis in the few weeks that are at his disposal.

I want to say also that we must encourage him, we must encourage him in the direction of refusing to be guided by dates, dates that were important to him in the past. We must encourage him to say: "Well, the season has been bad, it was impossible to plough, it was impossible to sow, but this was the result of the Almighty's decision." If, when the weather takes up, the ploughing is late, and it is late for sowing wheat and planting our potatoes, we must encourage him to take a chance, to take a gamble, and to depend on Almighty God Who has put us in this position, to give us a summer which, if the seed is planted, even late, will correct that whole position and relieve us from the danger that threatens us. Every member of this House, every member of a local authority, every individual, clergymen of all denominations, and all those whose voice and whose word and whose influence count should, as I say, encourage the farmer to carry on the planting season far beyond that which he would in the past regard as a safe mark. I believe that he will look upon it and I believe he will be entitled to look upon it and I believe that we would all look upon it in this way: that the Almighty God Who has prevented us from getting on with this work will see to it that we will get the weather to ripen the crop if it is planted late and that we will have the ability and the energy to save it.

Mr. Hughes

This country in the past has faced critical emergencies with faith and courage and determination. The gravity of our present position is without parallel and we want all three qualities to ensure that we can face up to that grave situation and deal with it effectively and efficiently. The Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations Organisation have informed the world that they anticipate a harvest in Europe below last year and that as regards the North American position, while the crop may be good, it is unlikely that there will be an increase in exports. The gravity of our position is definitely influenced by the general world position. Last year we grew 20,000 acres less of wheat because of the tendency towards the exhaustion of fertility here during the emergency. That reduction in acreage was brought about and it actually resulted in a reduction of 92,000 tons delivered to the stores. We have at the moment representatives attending a cereal conference in London and they are asking for something like 300,000 tons to tide us over the present year. The fact is that in the present year our supplies for July, August and September are still doubtful, so that we must be fully awake to the danger. The Minister has outlined the position. On this, the 19th day of March, in a normal year, the major part of all our cereals would be in.

The position to-day is that our tillage land is completely saturated with water. About 10 per cent. of our ploughing has been done—somewhere between 10 to 15 per cent.—and a small quantity of our winter wheat has been put in. The picture is extremely gloomy and the whole situation is fraught with grave danger. It will require a tremendous national effort to make our future even moderately secure.

We must, I think, thank the daily Press of our country for focussing public attention on the gravity of the present situation. I think the House must appreciate too that Deputy General Mulcahy asked for an opportunity to have this matter fully discussed here. There is one thing we must do. We must at all costs avoid panic. We must plan constructively and we must plan intelligently to grapple with this emergency in the most efficient and effective way. There is this much consolation to be taken—one does not measure the seasons of the year by the clock. Spring has not begun in this country at all yet. Nature cannot be coerced. If the farmer goes out to-day to his potato pit and examines it he will find that the seeds have not struck. In a normal year they would be growing out through the pit. That demonstrates quite clearly that this year nature has not yet begun to assert herself. I am not particularly alarmed about the lateness of the season because there are extraordinary compensations in nature.

Because of these extraordinary compensations I am convinced that with a sound faith in the mercy of God and despite all the hardships which we have suffered in recent weeks we shall achieve some compensation in the weeks to come. We may have a vigorous germination and we may have a very vigorous growth. That will make good our apparent losses at the present moment. We would appear, in my opinion, to have lost faith in the goodness of God.

Throwing our minds back to the harvest period last year and to the problems with which we were then beset, when there was danger that we might lose the entire harvest, surely we ought to have now confidence in the goodness of God's mercy for having brought us safely through those perilous days. We overcame our difficulties then. We shall overcome our difficulties again but we must do our job and we must do it well and efficiently. There is no necessity to get panicky about this. We must have, as every farmer in this country has, a philosophical outlook. I said last week in this House that the farmer is an extraordinary optimist. Some Deputies may think that he is a pessimist. As a matter of fact, to live on the land and to win something from nature, you must be endowed with a philosophical outlook and you must be an optimist all the time. That is deeply ingrained in our farming community. For weeks past the farming community has been waiting very calmly and very patiently. They are anxious but in their anxiety they are preparing their equipment and waiting calmly until the soil is fit. They will not touch it until it is fit. Then and not until then will they get on with the job.

The Minister has quite rightly said that this is not a problem of man-power. Last harvest it was a problem of man-power. To-day it is a problem of equipment and skilled labour and the use of the equipment available to us to its maximum capacity. It is there that the Minister and his Department and the county committees can come in to organise and ensure that we use the equipment we have to its utmost limit.

On the majority of farms where you have tractor equipment, there is only one tractor driver. Now at the present time tractors cannot be used, and I think that the time should be utilised in training a second man everywhere to handle a tractor so that he can take over from the chief operator at any moment. That can be done. The Minister told us that we have 7,000 tractors. I made inquiries about that this evening in the Minister's Department and I was given the information immediately. I made inquiries first in the kerosene section of the Department of Industry and Commerce and I was told there that they could not give me the information. I would have expected that the information would have been readily available from that particular section.

We cannot be as casual about this as the Minister has been, because it is going to be a very long job. Taking a figure of 650,000 acres of wheat, that is slightly over what we produced last year. Ten to 15 per cent. has been ploughed—roughly, 75,000 acres—and is now under winter wheat. That leaves us 500,000 acres to be ploughed and cultivated for wheat alone. Now, the immediate problem is to get in the wheat crop. The main potato crop is not a pressing problem and we have plenty of time to deal with that.

We have 7,000 tractors. We have 500 industrial, county, and Army tractors. That gives us 7,500 tractors. They can be put into operation immediately but it is not enough to say that we shall operate them as long as possible. Every tractor in the country ought to be equipped now with lighting sets. There are motor cars lying idle with lighting equipment and that equipment could be turned over and used. We must plan that the maximum number will operate up to 24 hours per day when the weather becomes suitable. Taking 7,000 tractors and night and day operations it is doubtful whether you will achieve five acres in the 24 hours for each tractor. On that basis it would take three days to plough 100,000 acres. Horse ploughs will plough one-third—a figure which I think myself is too high—and that gives us 33,000 acres. In three days we will plough 133,000 acres. On that basis it will take two and a half weeks to plough 500,000 acres for the wheat crop and we have then the cultivation and preparation of the seed bed. I would prefer a smaller acreage properly done rather than a big acreage done in a haphazard way.

The Minister spent quite a considerable time talking about plot holders. Plot holders—2,000 acres! Our problem is infinitely bigger than that. We cannot waste time talking about plot holders. We must concentrate on the big issue. We must organise our equipment and the available man-power during the next few days to keep our machines going. I do not agree with the Minister that industrial tractors cannot be used.

The industrial tractors are almost identical and there is no essential difference between them and agricultural tractors. Any tractor can be utilised for ploughing but you must remember that there are not enough ploughs to be harnessed to every tractor; at the same time, if there are not enough ploughs to be harnessed to every tractor, you can have the tractors going on with the cultivation—harrowing and so on. I believe there are plenty of old cars in this country which, if they were yoked up now, would be quite capable of pulling an ordinary zig-zag harrow for the final cultivation of the seed bed. These are the problems to which the local organisations must give their attention. The Minister has quite rightly said that in order to ensure that both tractors and horses will be kept full time in the fields, the delivery of seeds and manures must be undertaken by people other than farmers so that all seeds and manures will reach the farmer from the centres of distribution in good time and the farmer need have no worry on that score. He will place his order. All orders for seed wheat ought to be placed now, so that in districts where shortages occur they can be corrected on the books. The farmers should be instructed to place their orders immediately.

There may be some people so utterly selfish that they do not appreciate the duty they owe the community. There may be some people like those to whom the Minister referred, private owners who are not prepared to allow their tractors off their own land. The situation is so critical and dangerous that that must not be permitted. If there was an Army problem, the Army would take over and would not ask permission; they would immediately acquire any equipment they wanted. The situation is even more dangerous than that now and I do not hesitate to say that if the Minister wants compulsory powers in that connection, he must have them. No tractor must he allowed to remain idle. If the work on the farm of the individual who owns the tractor is completed, then the tractor must go elsewhere in order to help in this national work.

Britain was compelled to do that during the emergency. No tractor was allowed to remain idle. All the equipment was kept going until the job was done. There is this difference between the British agricultural community and ourselves. We know the expansion of agriculture that was achieved in England. They delivered the goods because they had the organisation, the technical advice and the leadership essential for that tremendous drive. Our efforts never measured up to theirs because we had not a national organisation behind the farmers. We relied on the individual effort of the farmer to produce the goods and he was not able to do it on his own.

I suggested here some years ago that we should utilise our county committees of agriculture in the same way as the British utilised their county war agricultural committees. Our county committees were futile, almost worthless, because they were not equipped with the power, the finance and the necessary equipment. We are going to rely on that machinery now, machinery that was not fully equipped with the power necessary to secure maximum production during the emergency. Is it not a pity that those centres of organisation in each county were not utilised as they should have been to effect maximum production?

This question of organisation is a local one. You can use agricultural equipment only in a limited way in a district. The problems are purely local. If you are to ensure that you use equipment to its maximum capacity you must depend on local communities. I do not want a lot of people standing about or getting into motor cars to run round the country. That is not necessary. We want the different districts to be conversant with the amount of equipment there that can be brought into operation and with the amount of old machinery that can be converted into useful agricultural implements. For instance, old cars were used during the emergency and they can be used again. The Minister should appeal to every garage in the country and to any people who own strong old cars that could be utilised for the purpose of cultivating the land, for harrowing and other purposes.

So far as the seed is concerned, the Minister should insist that before seed leaves the store it must be properly dressed. I have a letter from a farmer in my Kildare constituency telling me that he received a communication from a Dublin seed merchant to the effect that he could not dress the seed because he had not sufficient current to operate the machine. If there is not current available the machine could be operated by hand or by means of a petrol engine. The merchants should ensure that the seed is dressed with a mercurial dressing. If it is not properly dressed in the stores it may not be dressed at all and then we will have the inevitable fungoid and other diseases. This humbug about electricity should not be offered as an excuse. The only thing we want from the urban centres is that the people there will co-operate in the delivery of seeds and manures and that they will ensure that the seeds are ready for sowing when they arrive on the farm.

Another important thing is that tractor drivers and people familiar with farm machinery who have left the land — and there are some engaged in industrial work — should be released immediately for agricultural work. Many such men skilled in the use of tractors and ploughs should be released immediately so that they can return to the land. I do not want the Minister to think I am trying to make use of this critical situation.

The Government would be extremely wise if they adjusted more favourably the price of wheat. The Taoiseach will appreciate that Mr. Tom Williams, the British Minister, undertook for the British farming community that there would be a favourable adjustment in regard to wheat because of the losses sustained last harvest. We can measure our losses here by the reduction in the amount of wheat delivered to the stores and mills — 92,000 tons. That is what the agricultural community silently suffered last year through the bad harvest, and a favourable adjustment in prices now would have a tremendous psychological effect and would stimulate the agricultural community to maximum effort.

There ought to be available from this onwards a meteorological report for the benefit of agriculturists. The Minister indicated that there might be some chance of fine weather. It is brightening up a bit. We should have for the next few weeks a meteorological report so that the farmer can plan against whatever weather conditions are expected.

On the question of the tillage quota, and especially the wheat quota, there are a number of farmers who feel that there ought to be an adjustment, but I am very reluctant to make any suggestion. I think we must stand over what has been prescribed. Possibly later on in the season, if it is thought necessary to have a wheat adjustment in late districts and especially on land at a high altitude, where there might be danger of the crop not ripening, that matter might be considered.

At present there is a target set and we ought to plan to go as near as possible to that target. I feel that there is more equipment than is actually on paper, so far as the Department of Industry and Commerce is concerned, lying round the country that could be harnessed and brought into use. Above all, the Minister must have an organisation in the country that is effective and that will ensure that every possible piece of equipment that is available will be utilised. In this emergency, we are depending on leadership by the Minister. The Minister must give the lead to the country in this effort. That leadership must permeate from the Minister down to the county committees and the county committees must give the lead in each county. If the Minister will do his best, as I am sure he will, to build up the organisation that is necessary through the county committees of agriculture, I am sure that we can rely on the agricultural community to do their best in the emergency that is upon us. The men on the land never hesitated to work long hours. I am quite satisfied that the rural community are quite prepared to put in long hours now and to keep at the job consistently until that job is done. All we want is faith in the goodness of God and courage to face the job, and I believe we shall succeed.

Mr. Heskin

We all realise the gravity of the situation which presents itself to agricultural Ireland at the moment. We realise also that the Minister is not to blame for the emergency in which we find ourselves. Anybody who would be inclined to blame the Minister for the problem that is now presented would be unjust. As he stated in his opening remarks that he was hoping to hear from different sides of the House practical suggestions that might be put forward to deal with the present position, I should like to make a few suggestions. All farmers are aware that tillage work is at least two months late. We have now passed beyond the middle of March and there is not as much work done up to the present as would have been done at Christmas time in a normal year. I should like to put forward some suggestions which I had intended to make more than two weeks ago in connection with the motion which I put down in conjunction with Deputy Cogan. That motion has not yet been discussed and I understand that I am quite in order in referring to it in the debate which is now taking place. The motion is of such importance that I suggest the debate upon it should have taken place before now. I shall deal with it in detail as I was prepared a week ago to put forward these suggestions if I had been given an opportunity. This is the scheme which I suggested should be operated to cope with the tillage drive:

(1) Suspend meetings of the Dáil until 7th May so as to let rural Deputies co-operate with local authorities, tillage inspectors, fuel oil distributors, garage proprietors, etc., in their areas so as to speed up tillage operations.

(2) Earmark all suitable equipment such as tractors held by county councils, road authorities, manufacturers, golf and race clubs and all such clubs likely to have such machinery, also such equipment held by Córas Iompair Éireann and private owners. Replacements to be supplied from the Department of Defence with all available lorries so that, as far as possible, no inconvenience is caused, particularly in transport, transport being so important to such tillage drive in the conveyance of machinery, manures, seeds, etc. Military lorries to replace tractors for builders and, of course, no interruption in fuel transport.

(3) Local Garda to co-operate with Deputies, county committees of agriculture and tillage inspectors in making a check of suitable implements held by traders and hardware merchants engaged in the sale of such machinery with no interruption in deliveries of such implements already purchased and needed by farmers.

(4) Department of Agriculture to give authority to county committees of agriculture to purchase equipment, if not otherwise available, such as ploughs and harrows for use with tractors placed at their disposal by the aforementioned councils, clubs, etc. Machinery so purchased to be resold after tillage drive, the Department to stand any financial loss in such purchase and sale.

I do not think it would be fair to ask the local ratepayers to contribute towards the cost of this campaign. I suggest further:—

(5) Immediate release of men from the Defence Forces or any employment of any kind who are able to operate tractors for the period of tillage operations.

(6) All machinery to be hired to farmers and others engaged in tillage at a reasonable price to cover cost of work, wages, etc., and possibly part cost of machinery so acquired, so that the public will not have to meet all the cost of the scheme.

Should the Minister desire, I can give him some information on this aspect of the scheme as I have experience of hiring for a number of years.

(7) Day and night shifts to be arranged with drivers with alternative shifts between drivers so that both drivers will have to do night shifts.

Tractors will have to be kept at full pressure, working 24 hours on the job. I suggest that help should be provided for the drivers, particularly the drivers on the night shift. If the local parish councils are organised they could arrange for such help so that somebody would be at hand to provide the driver, if necessary, with spare parts or oil. That can be easily arranged by the local committee.

(8) Full co-operation by oil distributing companies and arrangement with local garages to store oil in petrol tanks.

(9) Garage proprietors to give priority to repairs of tractors during tillage drive period. Telephone priority to be made available to Deputies, tillage inspectors and garage proprietors, in business connected with the tillage drive, particularly business dealing with the allocation of petrol to seed and manure merchants to speed up deliveries.

(10) Córas Iompair Éireann and all haulage companies to give priority to delivery of agricultural machinery and parts. Manufacturers and dealers to co-operate in like manner so as to eliminate any delay.

(11) Reorganisation of parish councils for labour to help in the sowing of potatoes, also to provide help for tractor drivers and night shifts and providing food, oil and spare parts, etc., during the night.

(12) Extension of repayment periods for men who got loans from the Agricultural Credit Corporation for the purchase of machinery for tillage purposes such as tractors, ploughs, etc.

Last, but not least, there should be an increase in the bread, butter, tea and sugar rations, particularly for drivers and workers directly engaged in the agricultural programme. That is of major importance, and I am sure that the Minister, in co-operation with the Minister for Industry and Commerce, will be only too happy to deal with it.

As the Minister said, at the outset, the county committees are very responsible bodies and I am glad to say that they co-operated to the fullest during the harvest period. I suggest that if all Deputies work in conjunction with the secretaries of the county committees and the tillage inspectors, a very useful organisation for the allocation of machinery to particular districts can be built up. That is also very important. Deputies from rural areas are conversant with the affairs in their own districts and can help to a very great extent in getting machinery properly placed and placed to the best advantage. With regard to the hiring of machinery, let it be clearly and distinctly understood that the Department or the county committees are not placing machinery at the disposal of people for nothing, because many of us may be inclined to try to get something for nothing. For that reason, I suggest that a special hiring charge be fixed. In ordinary circumstances, people would be quite satisfied to hire the machinery, and I see no reason why, when such machinery is placed at their disposal, they should not pay a reasonable hiring price, per acre or per day, in order to cover the cost of purchase, the cost of oil and of wages to drivers on night and day shifts, as well as the cost of delivery of oil.

In connection with the provision of fuel oil, due to the scarcity of petrol for a long number of years, a number of garage pumps are to-day idle and where, formerly, two or three pumps were available at a garage, there is only one working to-day. I suggest that the distributing companies fill all such tanks to capacity, so that tractor owners can fill up at the pumps, provided, of course, they have the necessary permits to purchase oil. I suggest, further, that where tractors are provided, barrels should also be provided in order to ensure that a supply of oil will always be ready for the tractors. Furthermore, I suggest that, through the local committees, the people who have machinery on hire co-operate to the full in the delivery of oil to the farmers from the depots.

In connection with the delivery of oil, I am inclined to think that there is something wrong. I am afraid there is a certain amount of competition between two companies — and maybe more than two—operating to-day. We see in the Press from time to time that certain areas and districts have been without a supply of oil for long periods, and I am inclined to think that what is responsible for that position is that competing companies tend to concentrate on particular localities, leaving other localities without supplies. Let us hope that, in dealing with this situation, nothing of that sort will creep in. The Minister and the Minister for Industry and Commerce should get in touch with the companies and see to it that there is no undue delay because of competition in that respect.

I hope that every man will co-operate to the full in this tillage drive. This is not a time for Party politics. This is a matter of national importance. The Minister cannot be blamed by anybody. I do not care what suggestions are made — the bad weather, the flooding, and so on, is the work of Providence, and we can only hope that, with the help of God, we will get good weather and the co-operation of all concerned in a decent, honest effort to save the nation's food supply.

Seosamh Ó Cinnéide

Is maith an rud an spriod náisiúntach ceart a bhreathnú in san Tí seo anocht. It is a good thing to see this matter approached in such a national way. As representing one of the most fertile constituencies, a constituency which is the biggest producer of cereals in the country, the constituency of Meath and Westmeath, I may be permitted to say a few things on this matter. The first thing I should like to say is that one tillage defaulter in County Meath is of more consequence to the nation in this crisis than 100 or 200 defaulters in Connemara, West Donegal, Kerry or West Cork. These statistics which are thrown out to show that only so many defaulted — 3 or 4 per cent. — prove nothing. If I own 500 acres of the richest land in Europe, in County Meath, and if I default, my crime is greater than that of all the tillage defaulters in Connemara. There should be full co-operation by every side of the House, now that the crisis has been brought home to us, in making these men toe the line and do their duty and see that human beings live, instead of bullocks.

Deputy Hughes referred to the county committees of agriculture, what they did and did not do and what similar bodies did in England. I have read again and again the English agricultural journals and I have read the English Press. The English committees of agriculture co-operated with the Government during the whole crisis and they fined and they confiscated for refusal to carry out tillage, and it was not fines of half a crown they imposed for such offences. They were substantial fines, and if we have the spirit in which everybody will say: "Hear, hear," to such action, we are going to achieve something.

Deputy Heskin referred to the delivery of oil, t.v.o., kerosene and every fuel in connection with agricultural machinery. This is not directly within the Minister's province, but I suggest that he and the Government look into the position minutely. For the last fortnight, I have been told, with regard to the non-delivery of kerosene in North Meath and Westmeath, in the Oldcastle area, my own area, where the paraffin for December had not been delivered up to last night, that the lorries were engaged in delivering t.v.o. Three tractor owners in my own vicinity up to Saturday night last had not received a pint of t.v.o. and, if that obtains also in Waterford, it must obtain all over the country and it should be looked into. I was led to believe — I was in touch with the companies to-day — that every tractor was filled up with spirit and ready to go ahead. From the knowledge I have, I do not believe that is a fact and the position in that regard should be looked into.

Deputy Heskin also referred to the telephone service. In the harvest drive, in the end of September and the first week of October, there was no cause for complaint of the telephone service. Priority was given to calls in connection with the harvest. Then we lapsed into the old come-day-go-a-day-God-send-Sunday system. There should be a speeding-up of the telephone service in connection with the spring work. We should not have to wait three-quarters of an hour to get a call to Mullingar, a distance of 13 miles. If a service could be given last September whereby we could get a call in three to five minutes for a distance of 20 miles, it should be possible to have the same service now for the important business of sowing.

Deputy Hughes referred to plot holders and brushed them aside as being of no consequence. They are of great consequence. Everything counts in this campaign. We know that the potato crop is the most vital crop after wheat. In the recent crisis caused by the blizzard the village where I live was snowed up for a week and we were very glad to have potatoes and those who had plots during the war and who gave them up last year would be very glad to have them back again. If we fail in growing sufficient wheat, if the elements are against us, if in spite of our best efforts we do not get the yield we expect, we should be able to fall back on the potato crop.

Everyone who grows a rood or half a rood of potatoes is helping in the national effort. Therefore, everything possible should be done by county committees of agriculture and the much abused parish councils. If you take all the parish councils that operated successfully and calculate the amount of potatoes grown it represents no small factor in our food supply. These parish councils should be got going again and they should encourage everybody who formally took plots to take them again and to grow potatoes and thus increase the amount of food in the national pool.

There should be no qualms about doing Sunday work. The tractors should plough Sunday and Monday. I know that the industrious farmer, who is patriotic in outlook, will himself or through his men use the tractor Sunday and Monday but the man whom I referred to as trying to evade his responsibilities will stay at home and bless himself because it is the Sabbath day. The same man who will herd 1,000 cattle and herd 1,000 sheep will get suddenly religious in this crisis. Such hypocrisy should not be allowed to exist.

Mr. Cafferky

In the matter of encouraging the farmer to cultivate his land, the Minister has the support of this Party. However, he knows that I come from a county where it is not necessary to encourage the farmer to cultivate his land, where it has been the practice for many years to cultivate the land and that the people there depend to a greater or lesser degree on the land. I am sure the Minister's predecessor will tell him that there were no prosecutions for failure to comply with tillage regulations in County Mayo and the greater part of Connaught. One would gather from Deputy Hughes and other Deputies that farming is a very complicated affair. It is complicated because, as Deputy Kennedy, who has left the House, pointed out, the man with 500 acres who fails to comply with the regulations does more harm than the man with 50 acres or 30 acres who fails to comply.

The 17th March has passed. It is the belief in Connaught and in County Mayo that if you have not begun by the 17th of March you are facing a late spring and a late sowing. That is why to-day the future does not appear very happy. The rural population in Ireland is so sparse and the farms are so large that the farming community is faced with a dilemma in that they have not sufficient time to prepare. Given reasonably good weather in November, December, January and February, they would be able to deal with the situation but in an emergency such as this, when only three weeks are left, the wheat and corn may not be ripened in time to get the sun in the long days. We are facing a crisis.

I can well understand Deputy Kennedy making the point that the failure of the farmer with 500 acres in the most fertile part of Ireland, Westmeath and the Midlands, is a national tragedy. He should be punished. There would be no need for punishment, because there would be no failure, if that man had 50 acres instead of 500 and if there were ten farmers where there is only one. Those ten would be able to face the situation with resolute determination and, given reasonably good weather, would succeed where the man with the 500 acres may fail owing to various causes such as shortage of oil, shortage of labour and machinery. The man that counts in Ireland and the man that should count is the man with two horses and a plough, the man that can say to John Brown and to Pat Jones: "We will co-operate; we will work your horse and my horse every second day, and we will seed 20 acres." That is the really valuable farmer. But, as to that, my colleague and I were sentenced a short time ago because we advocated that, because we know the importance of it and because we know that if the rural population were established in this country there would be no necessity for the Emergency Powers Orders, no necessity for large fines, no necessity for imprisonment for men failing in their duty. Unless God were absolutely unkind to us in the matter of weather, we would succeed in fulfilling our duty and in returning the necessary quota and more than the necessary quota.

The Minister, coming from Cavan, knows the importance of the small farmer. He is a small farmer himself I discovered that when he was made Minister a few weeks ago in the publication of his life story and the part he has played in agriculture. One would know by the reasonable attitude with which he has faced the House, and the reasonable way in which he has put the case to the House, that he is a practical type of farmer and understands the difficulties.

There is no use, of course, in pointing out now that mistakes have been made that cannot be righted at the moment. All I want to say is that we wish the farmer with the 500 acres good luck and that we hope he will succeed in overcoming the crisis. Let us hope that he will feed those who have not 500 acres and who if they had one-eighth of it would be able to meet the difficulties. Let us give the 500-acre farmer every encouragement because we who have not got that land and who are dependent upon him to feed us, would be only doing ourselves harm and would be doing damage to the community if we did not encourage him and tell him that any assistance possible will be given. If the Minister has any influence with his colleague in the Department of Lands, let him insist on getting as many as possible on the land with a reasonable holding of 50 acres and then when another war comes and a crisis arises there will be no need for emergencies, no need for fines, no need for the introduction of emergency laws to force the farmer to till his land. You will have the right men there who will do it and who will produce the necessary food without assistance from anyone or any industrial organisation. We are with the Minister and with every Deputy in this House so far as assistance to the farmer is concerned.

Mr. Cosgrave

The country is now facing a national problem different from any we have faced in the past and one which will require the utmost co-operation, not merely on the part of the farmers and farm workers, but on the part of all those who are in a position to assist. I think, for that reason, that the publicity recently given in the Irish Independent and other newspapers is welcome if it focuses attention on the serious situation and if it evokes from everyone the maximum possible effort. While the situation is serious and while the season is now, taking normal seasons in comparison with the present into consideration, far advanced, nevertheless panic measures should not be adopted and no excitement should stampede either farmers or any others into precipitate action.

It is true to say that while nature has been unkind this year and while the weather has so far prevented anything but a very small percentage of farm work being done, comparing other seasons and other years it is reasonable to expect that while, according to the calendar, we are now late with sowing and with tillage work, nature will compensate, and it would be unwise to take the ordinary calendar as a guide to the period within which either wheat or any other crops should be sown. Nevertheless we ought to realise that every possible effort should be made to ensure that the maximum amount of work will be done immediately the weather improves.

For that reason, I want briefly to urge on the Minister the necessity of securing, by compulsion if necessary, that all tractors other than those already on the land be made available and that, in addition, personnel skilled in the working of tractors be made available or encouraged to make themselves available to farmers in different localities. It ought to be possible to secure from the Department of Industry and Commerce and from the particulars there a full account of the tractors available and I think, with the exception of any of those not registered for traction oil at the moment, it ought not be necessary to obtain a survey from officials from the county committees of agriculture. Full particulars surely are available to the Department of Industry and Commerce of those tractors used in industrial concerns or used for purposes other than agriculture and, for that reason, it should be possible to provide, if necessary, straight away, tractors in areas where they are not at present available.

In saying that, I think that everyone in the country realises that there can be no objection, and no opposition should be supported to compulsory measures being operated in cases where people fail to make their tractors available. Every encouragement should be given to employees and to employers to provide themselves and their employees who are skilled in the work of these tractors with work in areas where there is either a shortage of labour or a shortage of tractors.

Some people considered the harvest situation last year and compared it with the present spring work. I think it is right to say that with certain minor similarities there is no comparison between spring work and harvest work. The man-power problem was definitely present last harvest and many people unskilled in farm work rendered valuable assistance, and may in the future do so again. At the present time unless a person is skilled in the management of a tractor or skilled in ordinary farm operations, ploughing or tillage work, or has knowledge of the ordinary farm operations necessary to sow either cereals or potato crops he would cause the farmer more annoyance than assistance and, for that reason, no encouragement should be given to those who wish to enlist the aid of unskilled volunteers for spring work. The particular type of voluntary labour which could be of assistance and which should be made available are people who are traction-engine drivers or Army personnel who come from rural areas and who formerly had experience of agricultural work. Every effort should be made to ensure that the maximum number of these people be made available either by releasing them from the Army or by requesting employers or the people themselves concerned to volunteer for the work. I think it is a reasonable assumption that a tractor will plough five acres a day and that we have 7,000 or 8,000 tractors. It is obvious that it will take a week to plough 200,000 acres and, at that rate, it will take anything from two and a half to three weeks to complete the 600,000 acres necessary to cultivate that land for wheat. We will, in addition, have to cultivate land for potatoes and other cereal crops, and I would like the Minister to consider the possibilities that Deputy Hughes suggests to secure personnel who are in a position to work at night and work late in the evening to volunteer for that sort of work and to make available tractors and equipment.

Reference has been made to horses. It is obvious that a horse can do only a limited amount of work every day. Of course one horse may do slightly more or less than another, but the greatest problem at the moment is to utilise the tractors and all personnel available who are in a position to work tractors. In dealing with that, I think anything that has been said here cannot impress sufficiently on the Minister or his Department the situation which has developed in certain parts of the country where at the present time there is a great shortage of kerosene and traction fuel oil. Whoever is responsible, whether it is the oil distributing companies or not, it is essential the moment the weather clears, if work is to be undertaken at the maximum possible rate, that the deficiency be made up.

Mr. Smith

I would be glad if any Deputy who has evidence of that fact would let me know because my information is that that position has been safeguarded.

Mr. Cosgrave

It is a good thing if it is, but up to very recently it was a matter of transport.

Mr. Smith

I am not dealing with the distribution of kerosene in a general way but I am dealing with the distribution of kerosene and t.v.o. for tractor work.

Mr. Cosgrave

Last week I had some complaints and I think the Minister for Industry and Commerce said the companies had in certain areas fallen down on the job.

Mr. Smith

Yes, I am not discussing it in a general way but I would like, if any specific cases come to the knowledge of the Deputies, that they would let me know.

Mr. Cosgrave

I appreciate the Minister's interest. The only other comment I have to make is that the utmost co-operation is essential and that any encouragement that can be given by those in a position to do so will be given. It would be unwise, however, if a large scale effort were made to mobilise unskilled labour. Spring sowing and cultivation are entirely different from harvesting operations. While many people unacquainted with the work rendered valuable assistance during the harvesting operations, I do not think it would be wise to avail of unskilled labour now. All assistance that can be given to facilitate farmers in the transport of seeds, in the transport of manure and in the transport, if necessary, of machinery must be given and must be provided. Anything which in any way tends to provoke panic amongst the farmers or farm workers would not be in the national interest. We must first of all wait for the good weather. We can pray and hope that that weather will come. Until the weather does improve, unless we take these essential precautions, we will not be in a position when the weather takes up to engage in a full and proper utilisation of the available equipment and the available manpower in order to provide for our own needs.

An Ceann Comhairle

I should like to remind Deputies that it has been agreed to let the Minister in at 10 o'clock. Would those Deputies who desire to speak bear that fact in mind?

Mr. Corry

I do not want to take up the time of the House. Everybody who heard the Minister's statement tonight must agree that both the Minister and his Department are fully alive to the situation. I would like to pay tribute to Deputy Heskin for his contribution to this debate. I support his suggestion that the first step to take is to suspend the sittings of this House until May so that the rural Deputies can go home and see that the machinery which is available is properly used, and act as a spearhead for the work in every area. I think that is the first essential.

The Minister invited some comment about kerosene and t.v.o. I came up here three weeks ago in connection with the shortage of petrol in Cork City. I had another job of work to do in connection with the shortage of t.v.o. in Cork City. My tractor at that time had been lying idle for five days. I was told by the Department of Industry and Commerce that it was the fault of the distributing companies.

I went to the distributing companies. I found that there was plenty of kerosene in Dublin — where nobody wanted it—and none in Cork. When I had finished with them they were able to despatch a rail tanker to Cork that night. Surely, if they were able to despatch it so quickly then, there was nothing to prevent them despatching it prior to that. I was told there was plenty of kerosene in Dublin. There was nothing to prevent them sending it to Cork five days earlier. Quite definitely the distributing companies have fallen down on their job.

I agree, too, with Deputy Heskin that there should be power to get the machinery. When the machinery is available the farmers should be charged for it. We want nothing free from anybody. It would be thrown in our faces for the rest of our lives. Let the machinery be organised and made available and let the farmers pay for it and any labour they get. This is not the time to settle the price of wheat, or anything else. That can be done when the harvest is over.

I would suggest to the Minister that something more than machinery is required. Potatoes have to be seeded and manure has to be put in and spread for those potatoes. That is work that can be done by unskilled labour. I would suggest to the Minister that as many as possible of the Army personnel should be made available for that purpose, divided into units of four. The farmer should be made aware that they are available, and the farmers can pay them for their labour. I found that the Army were exceptionally good workers. We have heard too many gibes at the farmer who would not boil a kettle of water for the volunteers who went out last harvest.

I do not know what the experience is of other people in relation to machinery during the last harvest. But I had one experience myself and it was quite enough for me. I wanted a trailer for a tractor to enable me to get in one and a half times as much wheat again. I went to two of the largest companies in Cork. They had trailers and they were making any amount of noise about the help they were sending out, but they had no trailer to spare. I suppose they were afraid some of the paint might get knocked off.

When I failed there I went to the monopoly transport company in this State — Córas Iompair Eireann. They would not give me a trailer. They would give me a tractor and a trailer and a driver. I wanted only a trailer. They would not give me a trailer by itself. They would not give me the trailer unless I took the tractor and they would not give me the tractor unless I took the man with it. I did without them. I do not know whether the same difficulty will crop up now in relation to machinery.

I would suggest to the Minister that in the case of the small holding of 45 to 50 acres the ploughman is also the man who spreads the manure and who goes around with a bucket and an apron afterwards and spreads the seed. Now, that is somewhere where the ploughman could be kept going all the time provided he is told that help will be made available to him in the local military barracks so that he will have men for a couple of days to spread his manure and sow his seed. That is work that he can very well do.

I suggest to the Minister that he should make it clear to the farmer who is applying for the help that he has to pay that man his day's wages, that there is no question of free labour attaching to this job. When all this is over, next harvest we will be presenting the Minister with the bill and we do not want to be told about the free labour we got. The machinery used on the land should be charged for and the labour should be paid. There was too much advantage taken of free labour, in some instances, during the last harvest drive. It was given to men who did not deserve it. There were some farmers who did not deserve it, but they were few and far between; all the same, there were a few there. We heard a lot of yarns about men going out to help the farmers. In one case they met the farmer and his wife and two sons driving out the boreen to attend the races.

The situation is serious enough. We are, roughly, two months late and we have to get three months' work into one. The way to do that is by conserving our skilled labour. Let the ploughmen be kept busy ploughing and let them not be taken off to draw out manure and spread it. We must provide men to spread the manure for the farmer and to sow the potatoes and let others be kept closing the drills.

When we look for kerosene we are told there is plenty in Dublin. But there is none in Cork nor in other places where it is wanted. The Minister should get in touch with the distributing companies and wake them up. I gave them a wakening up some three weeks ago but they may have forgotten that. A rough handling might do some of them a little good. When the seed arrives in Dublin it should be sent to Cork and to various other depôts as quickly as possible. We cannot afford to have any hold-up now. The proper place for rural Deputies is in the country during the next few weeks.

Mr. Fagan

There is no doubt that the position is very serious, but, as Deputy Hughes said, nature may bring things right. As Deputy Corry says, we shall have to do three months' work in one and for that purpose we need organisation. The suggestion was made that all the parish committees that we had working during the emergency should be asked to co-operate. Every individual in the country who can participate in the work of cultivating the land should do so. As other Deputies have pointed out, there are many acres to be ploughed and we shall have to work night and day.

What we chiefly require is a good supply of tractor drivers. I have one man who is fit to drive a tractor, but he would not be able to work night and day. We want squads of tractor drivers prepared to work in all parts of the country. They might be placed at the disposal of the tillage inspectors and in that way all the tractors could be kept going. Whoever has a tractor, when he has finished ploughing his own land, should allow it to be shifted where there is need for it in the locality. Wherever there is a cultivator, it should not be allowed to remain idle. There should be such organisation that these things will be kept going all the time. The Minister should fix a charge for tractor ploughing because there will be some poor people squelched otherwise. The man with the tractor might be inclined to go where he will get the best price.

There should be a fair price fixed for tractor ploughing, for disc harrowing and for cultivating. If a farmer lends his plough, his cultivator or his disc harrow he should be allowed to charge for it. I might lend my disc harrow or tractor or cultivator and it might not be used as carefully as I would use it. There are numbers of people who give £70 or £80 or £100 for these machines and they might not be prepared to allow a man from the Army to use it. He might run it out the gate when it might be eight inches too wide for the gate and it might leave half of its machinery behind. In such circumstances the farmer will think twice about lending this type of machinery.

If a farmer's machine is broken, he should get compensation for it. People think a lot about their machines. They have put all their earnings into the purchase of them, they expect they will last half a lifetime, and they do not want them worn out too soon. The Minister should fix a price for the use of this machinery right away.

Deputy Hughes referred to the price of wheat. I think the Minister would be well advised to increase the price and not, as Deputy Corry says, wait until next harvest. Farmers got a hard knock over last winter's wheat. They had no return because of bad weather conditions. It is costing between £3 and £4 a barrel to import wheat. The Minister would be well advised to give the farmer an increased price for wheat and it will help a lot. We should not be afraid of costs now, because we are up against an emergency. The same thing will happen as in the case of logs during the fuel emergency. You would not have had an emergency if you fixed the price two or three months ago.

Every man must be paid for what he does, and the farmers are getting a raw deal. We saw the raw deal the farm labourers got over the bread. It was only when it was dragged out of the Government that the men were allowed a good ration of bread, men who walk three or four miles to produce the raw material for the bread. Two or three of my men have to walk three miles to work and they told me that unless they were properly treated in the matter of rations they would not help in the sowing. Provision must be made for rations of bread for the extra men the farmers will engage on the land.

With proper co-operation we will get over this emergency. The Government will have to assist in every way. I was disappointed by the Minister's speech. He asked the farmers to co-operate, but they must be compensated if they do so. It is not that we are looking for much out of the emergency—I do not want that spirit at all. The farmers must be paid in a reasonable way. Deputy Corry says that could be fixed after the harvest, but I suggest that it should be done now, and in order to encourage men to do their best, the price should be increased right away. I voted against increasing the price of wheat in this House before as I thought it was not necessary to increase it, but I see now that the cost of production has increased enormously and the farmers got such a heart-break last year and the land is so run out, that they cannot exist unless an adequate return is given to them. We on this side of the House are anxious to do everything we can to help because we know that the emergency is very serious. I suggest that an extra ration of bread should be given to the farmers who will have to employ extra men.

There is another matter which I should like to mention in which the question of money is also involved. There are farmers who, within the next fortnight, will each have three and four store cattle fit to sell. They were dependent on these cattle to provide the money to pay rates. They do not want any charity from the Minister for Agriculture but they would like him to ask the Minister for Local Government to extend the time within which the rate collection must be closed to the middle of May or to the 1st of May at least. That would help farmers who may not have sufficient money to buy seeds at present. As I say, it is not asking for charity; it is merely asking an extension of the time for a month or six weeks. Under present conditions, every rate collector must close his accounts on the 31st March. At present there is a poor price for store cattle owing to the coal situation and the abnormal weather in England. People reading the papers may think that cattle are fetching very high prices. Beef is making a very good price but the ordinary farmer who has a few store cattle to sell has to part with them at a price which is £3 or £4 less per head than he would get if there were a rail service. It is only people who are compelled to sell who are selling under present conditions. Although it may be out of order to say so in this debate, Córas Iompair Éireann are robbing them. It is a terrible thing to say that it costs £2 per head to bring cattle from Ballinasloe to Navan, whereas it costs only 6/- per head on rail.

What is chiefly needed is to organise a supply of tractors which is available and to have in every town a squad of men who are fit to drive tractors. The owner of a tractor has usually only one man to drive it and if the tractor is to be kept working for 24 hours he must be enabled to get another driver.

The Minister made some reference to plot-holders. I do not wish to dwell on the matter at any great length. There was, no doubt, some good reason for giving plots only to unemployed, but our experience in Westmeath is that many of the unemployed will not work these plots and that it is only waste of time giving them plots. Why not give plots to hard-working employed men, men who are working on the railways, for instance, who will go out and work these plots after their day's work? Plots should be provided on land the owners of which are not able to till it themselves. There is a certain amount of land in Westmeath in the possession of people who have not the where-withal or who are not in a position to till it. I know an auctioneer in Westmeath who has some land of that type on his books for letting for tillage. It would cost as much as £2 per acre for tilling it and the people who own that land are not in a position to deal with it. Such land should be earmarked to be given out in plots to railwaymen and others employed in towns. We on this side of the House undertake to do everything to assist the Minister in this tillage drive. We only want a fair crack of the whip. We want a lead from the Minister and I am sure he will give it to us.

Mr. Cogan

I am glad that the Government and Deputies of all Parties are fully alive to the very urgent importance of the matter before the House, the matter of ensuring that in the next few weeks the nation's food supply will be put into the land. Three weeks ago Deputy Heskin and I put down the following motion:—

"That in view of the exceptionally backward condition of farm work due to the abnormal weather conditions and the grave danger that it will not be possible to get wheat and other essential crops sown at the proper time, Dáil Eireann is of opinion that the Government should take immediate and drastic steps to divert to agriculture, from other industries and occupations, additional labour and tractors, and that tractor equipment and fuel oil be made available in sufficient quantities for an intensive national tillage effort."

We repeatedly applied for Government time to have that motion debated but our application was turned down. I should like the Minister to explain to the House why that application was turned down. That motion is still on the Order Paper although the subject matter of the motion is being debated to-night. I do not know what becomes of the motion now. It will probably remain on the Order Paper until reached. I hope that by the time it is reached, the emergency will be over. I hope that, if by any chance, the motion will not be reached until this time 12 months, there will not then be any need to discuss it. I hope we shall never experience such a series of calamities as we have experienced during the past six or seven months in agriculture.

I am glad that many Deputies have stressed the fact that the situation is not hopeless. There is a great danger facing the country but the situation is not absolutely lost. It may be that, having regard to the kind of wintry weather we have being experiencing up to the present, some spring weather will come during the months of April and May and that all crops will eventually be sown in time. But we cannot afford to be complacent. I do not think that either the Minister or his admirers are complacent but in the difficult situation that faces us the Minister might have been more inspiring. He might have been more eloquent. He might have treated us to some Churchillian phrases but I think that nobody can doubt that the Minister is sincere in his realisation that the situation is dangerous and in his anxiety to take all possible measures to overcome the dangers that face us.

I, without hesitation, enthusiastically endorse the 14 points that were put before the House by Deputy Heskin. Each point was carefully thought out over the past few weeks while we were expecting that our motion would be taken. Each of these points is constructive and I am glad that many of these have been already supported by other Deputies. It is particularly important, in the first place, that every tractor which is not engaged in agriculture should be diverted to agriculture, that an appeal should be made to owners of such tractors to utilise them for agricultural purposes and that, in the last resort, compulsory measures should be adopted if necessary. In addition to existing tractors there is also the possibility of using large numbers of improvised tractors.

Tractors made from converted motor lorries and converted cars of high power will all be useful, not perhaps for ploughing, but the cultivation of land. In the early years of the war, I knew of a farmer who cultivated'a considerable amount of land with a motor hearse—I need not mention that the hearse was unoccupied—and the cultivation was done quite efficiently. Any high-powered car or other vehicle is capable of drawing disc harrows and so on, provided it is geared for the purpose. That is one example of the improvisation which can be adopted, and it is the spirit of improvisation, the will to improvise, which has saved many nations in the past and which will save this nation in this emergency —the determination of all our people, no matter what their occupations, to lend a hand and to co-operate so far as possible.

I am in entire agreement with the suggestion that local committees should be formed and that parish councils should be reorganised. The people of each local area should be called upon to come together and see what they can do in their respective areas. When the people of a parish come together, they can find out how many tractors are available in the parish and how many tractors or improvised tractors can be made available.

They can also find out what amount of additional labour can be harnessed in that parish and, what is most important, what particular farmers in the parish are very backward, what farmers are experiencing extreme difficulty in overcoming the difficulties of the sowing operation. We must remember that there are every kind and condition of people owning land. There is the farm—not the very big farm to which Deputy Cafferky referred—of 30 to 60 acres, owned by aged people who are, by reason of physical incapacity, unable to grapple efficiently with their work.

The local committee can help out these people and that is what we want —local organised effort and enthus iasm. Let us not rely too much upon Departmental officials. The officials of the Department of Agriculture have always been, and will always be, the wettest of wet blankets that can damp down local and national enthusiasm. Let us, instead, issue an appeal, first, to the clergy of all denominations in each parish. This is a Christian country, and it is the Christian duty of all to co-operate. Let us ask the clergy to call their people in and see what they can do in their own areas. There is an immense amount of work which local organised effort can undertake and carry to a successful conclusion.

A number of statements were made here to the effect that unskilled manual labour is practically no use in regard to spring work. I do not entirely accept that. Skilled labour is the more important, but there is an immense amount of work which can be done, even in the spring time, by the unskilled worker. Practically all the potatoes in this country are at present in pits in the fields. They have not begun to grow, as some Deputies pointed out, owing to a change in the weather, but they have in a great many cases begun to decay, and one job which unskilled labour could do is to get these potatoes sorted out and see that none goes to waste. In a rush time like this, there is often waste in the potato crop in hauling it together too quickly and carrying it away from the fields in order to get work done. That is the first operation which unskilled labour can undertake.

Then there is the planting of potatoes, in which unskilled labour can assist to a great extent, and there is also all the work in connection with the distribution and spreading of artificial and farmyard manures. So far as artificial manure is spread by hand, it can be done with labour which is not very highly skilled and, so far as farmyard manure is concerned, its carting and filling can all be done by unskilled labour. Then, in winter, there are weeds on land—scutch, and so on—which will show up and which have to be carried off, and here again unskilled labour can give very great assistance.

Let us not despise any form of help that can be given in this emergency. Let us seek all the skilled labour we can get and all the mechanical aids we can get, but let us not despise the man who is willing to work and to help, but who has not a very high degree of skill. Let us not despise the humble plotholder who can also give assistance sin a small way. It is not alone the amount of food the plotholder will produce but the psychological effect of having everybody in the towns, outside the agricultural industry, helping which will be of immense value.

There is one final point to which I wish to draw the Minister's attention. In view of the fact that, despite all our efforts, sowing will be late, particularly in regard to wheat and other cereal crops, a big effort should be made to secure all the nitrogenous manures the Minister and his officials can lay hands on. If a little smuggling is necessary to get it into the country, it should be encouraged, because nothing would be more helpful to offset the lateness of the sowing of wheat than a dressing of nitrogenous manure in May or early June. That is an urgent matter which should receive attention. Another is that something should be done to provide increased rations for those engaged in farm work. It is a difficult matter, but some effort should be made to ensure that the additional labour employed on the land will be provided for in the matter of bread, sugar and other necessaries.

Mr. Davin

I join with the Minister and the Deputies of all other Parties in the appeal now being made to every able-bodied patriotic citizen to join the national army, the real national army, which must save the people from what appears to be the most disastrous period in the memory of anybody inside or outside this House Every one of us, when we read our letters every week, find that from time to time we are requested to support applications from citizens, men and women, for permits and passports to carry them to another country to which they are induced to go by the understanding that they will get higher rates of wages or better conditions than at home. With a little knowledge of the conditions prevailing in the neighbouring nation, I want to warn these people—and some must have found out their mistake by now—that when they go over there, they will find that the conditions are not as good as they thought they were before going over.

They are induced to go by the temptation of higher wages and better conditions and they find themselves in a country where they may get higher wages but where they pay a much higher rate of income-tax and where food is rationed to a far greater extent than it is here. I invite those of them who may read my words to regard it as their patriotic duty, in the delicate and difficult position of this country, to remain here for the present, to cancel their application for permits and passports and to give a helping hand to the farmers and others to produce the food and fuel that will be so urgently needed in the next 12 months.

I also join with those Deputies and with the Minister—I am sure he shares their view—in asking that parish councils that worked so efficiently during the period of the last war should be reorganised, and at once. I suggest that the parish priest and the parson of every parish in the country should be invited, without delay, to convene a meeting of their parishioners during the next week, if possible, for the purpose of reorganising those parish councils on a representative basis. If that job is left to the local leader of the Fianna Fáil Party or the Fine Gael Party or the Labour Party or the Clann na Talmhan Party it will be regarded with suspicion. I say with great respect that the parish priest and the parson would be able to do that job better in existing circumstances than anybody else.

I hope the Minister will make that appeal and, if he does appeal to the parish priest and the parson of each parish to convene such a meeting for the purpose mentioned, in the course of the next week or so, I am sure a really representative parish council can be formed composed of people who will do their job and help the people of the parish to go along the right lines.

Deputy Fagan said the farmers must be paid for their work. I do not want to repeat that in the case of the agricultural labourers but I am sure the Minister for Agriculture more than anybody else will realise that agricultural labourers who have to rely upon their labour to support themselves and their dependents, cannot live on fresh air. The farmer can last longer on fresh air and the food he produces in his own farm than the agricultural labourer who has to rely upon a weekly cash wage for the purpose of buying the necessary commodities from the local shopkeeper.

I said here a week ago, speaking on the Vote on Account that, if necessary, this Government should subsidise the farmers for the purpose of providing decent rates of wages for the agricultural labourer, but I am not now making that a condition for the support that should be given by every able-bodied citizen in the present real emergency.

I was amazed during the past few weeks to find appeals in letters from blacksmiths, and yesterday two blacksmiths residing in Laoighis-Offaly came to the city for the purpose of trying to persuade the Department of Industry and Commerce to provide coal or coke or whatever other fuel would be most useful to blacksmiths for the purpose of repairing agricultural machinery lying in blacksmiths' shops.

That is not an isolated case. I know of a number of such cases in my constituency during the past few months and I suggest to the Minister for Agriculture that he should have an immediate conversation with the Minister for Industry and Commerce or with the Departmental officials responsible, for the purpose of having these applications sanctioned and the necessary fuel allowances provided without any further delay so that the tractors, harrows and ploughs that are lying in their shops can be repaired. The farmer cannot plough his land if his plough is lying in the blacksmith's shop and the blacksmith cannot carry out the necessary repairs unless he gets the fuel allowances. I am sure that personal representations by the Minister to whoever is responsible in the Department of Industry and Commerce will result in the matter being rectified immediately. The blacksmith should be placed number one on the priority list wherever such work has to be carried out, if the labourer and ploughman are to be put in a position to do their work.

It is not an occasion for using a lot of words but, generally speaking, I feel that this Party, like every other Party and group in the House, feel bound, whether we like or dislike the Government or the policy of the Government, in a critical period of this kind, to say that we are behind the Government in every step they take for the purpose of providing our citizens with food and fuel during the next few years.

Mr. P. Burke (County Dublin)

It is very nice to hear the patriotic remarks of all Deputies and to have their co-operation in a very severe emergency. The practical way of dealing with the matter would be to ask the county committees of agriculture to increase their staff and to zone areas, to put a man in charge of each area, to co-ordinate the tractors in the area and to see that there would be fuel oil available so that no farmer would have his tractor idle for any time. That can easily be done. No matter what you may do by voluntary effort, the way to get the thing done in a practical fashion is by paying the man to do the job. From my experience of county committees of agriculture and the officers of the Department of Agriculture I know that they are a very efficient body and that they do their job well when they get down to it.

We have heard a good deal of discussion about voluntary effort. At this particular period volunteers are out of the question unless the county secretary of agriculture could come into the picture here and could take a list of men in towns and cities who would be of some use to the farmer, and put them on a priority list and pay them when they go out to work. The best way of recruiting would be through the county committee of agriculture in each county.

There has been some disparagement of plotholders. In this national drive there should be no disparagement of anyone who is able to do anything. Plotholders should be encouraged by every means possible. If there are 50 or 60 parishes in each county and if each parish had only ten acres in plots it would mean at least 2,000 acres. That can be easily carried out if the proper parish committee is elected in each area. I have the honour and pleasure to belong to a parish council that had 20 acres in plots during the emergency, and have them still. If the small parish that I am living in can do that, other parishes can do the same.

What I have heard in the House to-night has been very encouraging. The Minister gave a very fine lead. It is up to all parish committees and local committees throughout the country to co-operate in every way possible and to get the staff of the county committees of agriculture increased. They are a very efficient body and if the staff is increased and if areas are zoned you will get somewhere. You will know where a tractor is and you will know whether a farmer has oil for his tractor or not and in that way you will be able to help out. The man that is in charge of the area will know that a particular farmer wants help and will be able to provide it, if the secretary of the county committee of agriculture has made a list of available men. These men, of course, should be paid for their work.

Furthermore, it is necessary that anybody who can supply a tractor owner with lights so that he could operate it at night should do so. That has been done in my constituency and I should like to see more of it done. By a general spirit of co-operation we should be able to help. During the last harvest the campaign was on a voluntary basis. It was not to help any particular section of the community. It was to help the nation on the whole to save us from bread rationing that, unfortunately, we have to bear at the moment.

Voluntary labour was looked for for one thing only and that was to save the nation as a whole and to save the food of the nation and, again, no praise can be too high for those people.

Captain Giles

We have had many useful observations here to-day which I hope will help our people. However, I was very dismayed to hear from a responsible Deputy on the far side of the House the statement that no man should have qualms of conscience about breaking the Sabbath and that he should break it consistently. That statement should not come from a Catholic Parliament. I deplore that statement. The greatest curse of the country is breaking the Sabbath. We have six working days and nights and we ought at least to give one day to God and I am satisfied that the cause of all the ills here and throughout the world is the breaking of the Sabbath and I hope that Deputy Kennedy will not make such an ignorant statement as that here again. The job ahead is a big one and I am satisfied that it will be met and overcome not so much by the hand of man as by the hand of God: those who trust in God are never let down.

My friend from Cork, Deputy Corry, made a very vigorous statement that the Dáil must close down immediately. I hope that the Dáil will be kept open all this time because the last person the farmer wants to see down the country is a T.D. His job is here and keep him here.

Deputy Kennedy spoke of Meath and Westmeath. There was a huge amount of waste of good grain and wheat, particularly throughout Meath and Westmeath. That should not have been the case. It was not the fault of the big landowners but of the amount of work they had to do. I am satisfied that there were hundreds and hundreds of acres of good wheat lost in many areas over the last few years because those men tried to cultivate 200 or 300 acres of tillage at a time when they were not able to do 50 acres. It is the bounden duty of the Department of Agriculture and the State to step in and allot the extra division that a man has. They should not be setting those vast areas of land to those people because they are not able to cope with it. In the British days—I was young then —I remember that they had auctions of all those big estates and they allotted five, six, seven and ten acres at a reasonable price to farmers who were able to work them, and I do not believe that there was a barrel of wheat lost. I know of barrels of wheat lost because our men were not able to reach it. That should not be allowed to happen. Any man with a large tract of land should not try to do what he is not able to do. They had too much work on hands and they lost too much grain. I am satisfied that if the small farmer who had not enough work on his own land could have worked some of these extra acres we would have more wheat in our coffers to-day. I am not against any man doing all he can.

Another important item is the labour problem. I would say to Deputy Davin and to those who have responsibility for labour to see that we have no lightning strikes. There is no earthly reason for a lightning strike. Our nation is in an emergency and our country is suffering deplorably. I do not believe there is any reason in the world for a lightning strike. We must save the people from starvation. I believe the labourer will get a reasonable wage and that the farmer will pay him all he can—he will give anything to save the crop.

There is another matter which I want to talk about, and that is the dole. Cut out the dole. Let a man either work or starve. We have too many of these men who want dole after dole. At present there is work for every man in this country. No man should be idle. Why should a man say: "I have no work"? There is work for him and if he does not want it let him starve. Nobody but the sick and infirm should get State money at the moment. The dole has been the curse of our country over the last ten to 15 years. I would say this also to the committees of agriculture—see that the cottage plots throughout the country are tilled and fully tilled. In four or five towns I have come across of late I am satisfied that 50 per cent. of the plots have not had a spade put in them. These plots should not be left idle. I implore the Minister to see that every effort is made to have these plots worked and well worked, because if they were worked as they should be there would be a good living for many of the people whose plots are idle to-day. If the owners cannot work them they should be given to their nearest neighbour.

I would not be hard in the case of a widow or infirm man but I have no excuse for a big hefty workman. It is most important because it is disgusting and hateful for a farmer to look across and see an untilled patch at a cottage lying idle. I think it is disgraceful — especially in County Meath where there is such good land. I want to see those cottiers sowing potatoes and cabbage and those things which are very essential for their own health and I think we would have a far more healthy rural population if those people would do more spade work.

I would appeal to the Minister also to see that there is a definite price fixed for tractors per day. Let it be a fixed price so that we who employ the tractors can know what we have to pay and that we have a court to bring them to if we are overcharged. There is no need for panic. The job will be done and it will be well done. If we do our duty and stop working on the Sabbath—even if it is a fine Sabbath—I am satisfied that God will reward us with a long summer and a good harvest. Working on the Sabbath has brought a curse upon this country. The present situation should make us realise that there is One above who rules. I never want to hear again in this House statements made by Deputies that we must break the Sabbath and break it again and again and I hope that we shall never hear a statement of that kind made in this country again.

Mr. Donnellan

I would like to put a few points before the Minister. Even if the weather clears up in the morning, as I hope it will, it will still be rather late for the wheat crop and it is doubtful if we will succeed in getting the necessary acreage sown. There is a long time yet for the potato crop and I hope that a tremendous effort will be made to increase as far as possible the acreage under potatoes so that any deficiency in wheat can be made up for in that direction. These two crops go hand in hand.

No man can accuse the Minister of not doing his duty and he has told the House to-night that the farmers fully realise their responsibilities. I was profoundly glad to hear him make that statement.

I would like if something could be done to make artificial manures available for the grass lands. The grass lands have deteriorated particularly in the past few years and during our recent harsh winter weather. The result is that the yield of butter and milk will be very low. They are also essential foods and I think a certain amount of artificial manures should be made available, particularly in the dairying districts.

Deputy Davin referred to the coal for blacksmiths. That is an important matter and in my part of the country they complain that they cannot even get a limited quantity for shoeing horses. I am sure the Minister will look into that.

I was very much impressed with Deputy Kennedy's statement that one defaulter in Meath contributes more to the subsequent loss suffered than any other defaulter in the country. Deputy Kennedy was quite right in that statement. In Meath there is a lot of rich land capable of producing an enormous crop.

I hope that in the future there will be greater co-operation between the Department of Lands and the Department of Agriculture. I think such co-operation is vitally essential. If there were closer co-operation between the two Departments, the tillage position would not be so serious now. The Department of Agriculture should urge on the Land Commission to settle more families on the land. With more people on the land, the necessity for compulsory tillage will not be so grave because the more people you have on the land the greater the food production.

Finally, I would like to say that down in my part of the country, in North Galway, there are some tractors there which are used only for threshing. The farms are so small there is hardly any ploughing. Those tractors are idle at the present time and it might be possible for the Minister to make arrangements to have them availed of in other parts of the country. It is a pity they should be left idle in this grave emergency, and I am sure the people would be only too glad to give their services.

Mr. D. Morrissey

As the time is so short I shall not be able to make all the points I wished to make. One very important aspect of this whole matter —and it is perhaps the root of the whole problem—is that we are told here we must get at least 650,000 acres of wheat sown. I want to get an assurance from the Minister now in regard to this. That is our target. I do not think I would be wrong in saying that at the present moment there cannot be more than roughly 50,000 acres of winter wheat. That means that we have a deficiency of 600,000 acres of spring wheat to meet. I am afraid that we have nothing like sufficient seed—good quality spring seed—in this country to sow 600,000 acres.

Mr. Smith

We have.

Mr. D. Morrissey

The Minister is satisfied of that?

Mr. Smith

Yes.

Mr. D. Morrissey

If that is so, it relieves my mind very considerably.

Mr. Smith

And we have the variety, too.

Mr. D. Morrissey

As far as the variety is concerned, 90 per cent. of it will be practically of the one variety.

Mr. Smith

That is quite right.

Mr. D. Morrissey

However, I am glad to accept the Minister's assurance. So far as the later varieties of spring wheat are concerned, the quantity available is very small. It does not give a good yield. My mind has been relieved by the Minister's assurance and I must admit I am pleasantly surprised to know that we have that immense quantity of good spring seed available to grow 600,000 acres, if we can get that much cultivated.

I want to support those who made the point—and I have some little experience in this matter—that one of the best pieces of practical help you can give to the farmer is to have his seed and manures available at his door. The county committees of agriculture can do very little as they are presently constituted. The seed merchants with the co-operation of Córas Iompair Éireann can do an immense amount. The seed merchants know every farmer in their locality and they know almost to a stone the seed wheat that he requires and the amount of manure and fertiliser available. I think the Minister should get his officials to get in touch with the various seed merchants and I know that he will find them only too willing to give very valuable assistance in that way.

Deputy Hughes made the point that it is absolutely essential to have seed wheat dressed. I entirely agree with that. Unless there is immediate contact now between the seed assemblers, the seed distributors, the county committees of agriculture and the farmers, the farmers will be held up in their work when they are ready to sow, because the seed will not be ready and available for them. As somebody said, we shall have to do three months' work in one month.

Many of the seed distributors have not the storage capacity in which to store sufficient seed to put out in a month what should be put out in two or three months. This is a very important point. So far as the great bulk of the seed wheat is concerned, it is drawn from a central area in this country, but we depend on Córas Iompair Eireann by rail and road to convey that seed wheat from where it is assembled and treated to the various merchants in the towns and villages and at the cross-roads and if Córas Iompair Éireann falls down on this job it ought to be called to reckoning. Transport will be one of the most vital of our links and I am afraid it will be the weakest link in this chain.

Mr. Smith

I am very pleased with the way in which this debate has been conducted. Deputy Heskin suggested that the Dáil should adjourn until 7th May. I think that suggestion was supported by Deputy Corry, but Deputy Giles seemed to think otherwise. I was afraid that something might be said in the course of the debate that, instead of assisting us in this crisis, might do harm, and it was a great pleasure to me to find that every word spoken in the debate was entirely appropriate and helpful to the position in which we find ourselves. I was glad also to note that the lines upon which we in the Department have been acting met with general approval. I listened carefully to every speaker and, with the exception of a few minor points, I think our activities and the survey I gave here of the directions in which the officials in my Department have been moving for some weeks, seem to have met with the approval of Deputies.

As I said at the opening of the debate, maybe I do not understand the farmer's mind, but I felt that to talk about various things at a time when the weather conditions were such that he could only look out on his holding, would prove a source of irritation to him rather than a source of encouragement. I imagine, however, that it will prove of enormous benefit to the farmer, when he starts his work of cultivation and when weather conditions improve, to realise that public enthusiasm has been aroused and, even though you cannot call in man-power, as has been admitted here, to assist him, the fact remains that behind his every effort is a volume of goodwill that will be of enormous value to him in surmounting his difficulties.

I was very pleased with the words of encouragement spoken to the farmers by Deputy Hughes. He expressed my thoughts exactly, and that line was supported by other Deputies. Like Deputy Giles, who followed on the same lines, I have a belief that if the Almighty intervenes in making it impossible for work to be undertaken at a particular time, He will, late and all as it may appear to be, and hopeless as the position may seem, alter the position. I have sufficient confidence in the Almighty to believe that. That is, as Deputy Hughes said, if we have courage—I believe we have—and if we show that courage by taking advantage of every fine hour and every fine day when these come along.

It is a grand thing to observe that, however much we may differ in debates across the floor of this House as to the manner in which this important section of the community is being treated in the matter of prices and otherwise, we can meet and discuss this crisis in the way in which we have done it, forgetting all the bitter debates, if I may so call them, and displaying a magnificent degree of co-operation such as has been shown here to-day. Those of us who come from the land, who belong to the land, who have our roots in it and who understand the responsibilities associated with ownership of land in a time like this; those of us who know the history of our farmers, the history of our fathers, and the struggle they had in the past, in times that were more difficult and more dangerous than these, would certainly feel it very much if on this occasion we in this Assembly failed to discharge our responsibilities to other sections of the community.

I am satisfied that the farmers in this country are fully alive to their duties. Not only that, but I believe, too, that their workers, who have been on the pay-roll all those weeks and who understand fully how impossible it was to make any contribution commensurate with the amounts they received in wages from the farmers, will appreciate all these factors when the good days come and that they will not spare themselves in order that the job will be done properly.

I agree with Deputy Hughes that in spite of what might be said to the contrary, there is safety in the fact that there is no sign of growth yet, late and all as it is now. I saw oats sown on the 5th May and I saw the crop harvested and it was the best yield one would want when sowing at any time or in any circumstances. I should like to remind Deputy Donnellan that those who make that approach now will be quite safe in regarding practically the whole of the next month—in fact, the whole of next month—as a safe period in which to sow wheat. We must set a good example and offer words of encouragement to the farmers; we must even encourage them to gamble in the sowing of the seed, because of the importance of this problem and because of the disaster that would result if landowners were to fail in this task.

Mr. Donnellan

I did not say that they would fail.

Mr. Smith

Perhaps I might refer to a few points which were not included in my original survey. We have, as I stated, made a survey of the industrial tractors position. It is not, from the point of view of numbers, as I thought I had conveyed, by any means encouraging. I have in mind the type of tractor owner to whom Deputy Donnellan refers. There are such owners in my own county, where the conditions are not very much different from those in that part of County Galway from which the Deputy comes. I have, too, met representatives of the county committee of agriculture in Meath. They were very quickly off the mark and they reminded me that such tractors were likely to be found in my own county and that they were getting after these.

It was also suggested that there should be some board or other organisation to deal with this matter. Deputies will remember that I indicated in my opening statement that I was placing on the shoulders of the secretary of the county committee of agriculture or of the C.A.O., as the case may be, the responsibility for co-ordinating the activities of the officials of my own Department and of the inspectors in the different counties, as well as those of whatever officials are being made available through the county councils. I take it that these outdoor officials of mine will have areas to look after and the secretary of the county committee or the C.A.O., as the case may be, will be able to see to what extent it will be necessary to interfere with those areas and divide them up still further, so far as he may be enabled to do so by reason of having other people put under his control.

The suggestion was made that every tractor owner should be asked to train additional drivers. I know some of them and I believe that tractor owners are already doing that. They may not be all doing it, but certainly those of them who intend working for hire will see to it that the tractor is kept going full blast. I know also that a number of tractor owners are endeavouring to equip their machines with lighting sets. We, for some time, through our tillage inspectors, have been advising and encouraging them to do so. We shall not only give them advice and encouragement but we propose to give whatever further assistance we can in order that they may have their machines equipped with lighting sets. Anything that we can do in that direction will be done.

Mr. Hughes

Would the Minister ask every garage owner in the country to make available any sort of lighting equipment he has for tractors employed in this work?

Mr. Smith

We shall consider that. As I said, we have asked tractor owners to do their best to equip the tractors with lighting sets.

Mr. Hughes

And field repair sets.

Mr. Smith

Yes. Some mention was made of complaints as to the availability of oil. Complaints have also been made as to the way in which blacksmiths are being treated in regard to coal supplies. Strange to say, we have got no complaints under the latter heading. I think we did get a letter to-day from a blacksmith complaining about coal allocation. If such complaints come to the notice of Deputies, I would ask them to make us aware of them as quickly as possible.

Mr. Davin

Is the Minister aware of how many such applications are awaiting sanction in the Department of Industry and Commerce?

Mr. Smith

I have no responsibility for that. The blacksmith generally knows the point of view of my Department on this matter. It has been the custom for blacksmiths in the past to write to us when they find themselves in difficulties. I should be surprised if they were suddenly to decide to ignore us because we have given them an enormous amount of assistance in the past in regard to this matter. If there are any such difficulties, I would invite Deputies and blacksmiths to let us know how they are faring and we shall come to their assistance with the greatest possible speed.

Mr. Davin

I know of cases where they were promised sympathetic consideration but sympathetic consideration is no use. Coal is what they want.

Mr. Smith

The Deputy will realise that coal is not a commodity that can very well be bandied about in these days.

Mr. Davin

If blacksmiths carried on their work with Castlecomer coal in the pre-war days, they should be entitled to get an allocation of such coal now instead of giving it to merchants who never bought Castlecomer coal until British coal was not available.

Mr. Smith

I should be surprised to learn that the Department of Industry and Commerce is not as fully aware as my Department and I, of the importance of putting coal, if available, at the disposal of blacksmiths. If such cases do exist, then let us have the particulars and we shall follow out the matter to the end.

Mr. Davin

Castlecomer coal is available.

Mr. Smith

I was invited by, I think, Deputy Heskin, Deputy Giles and others, to fix a price for tractor work. I have given some consideration to that matter. I have turned over in my mind, not so much the practicability of fixing a price as the practicability of enforcing it, and, if it seemed to be impracticable, the advisability of making any Order. I do not know what other Deputies may think about this matter but having turned it over in my mind and having asked some other people what they thought about it—I know the dangers that exist and the temptations there are when farmers hire these tractors—I should not like to make an Order unless there is a reasonable chance of our being able to enforce it. So far, I have not been able to get any evidence that would lead to the conclusion that it could be enforced. It would be a very desirable thing to do but I am inclined to think that since it would not be possible to enforce such an Order it might be unwise to make it. I am prepared, however, to give the matter further consideration.

The desirability of increasing the rations of rural workers has been mentioned, and the accusation has been made by Deputy Fagan that the additional allowance of bread to farm workers who have to travel a certain distance was dragged out of the Government. That is an unfair kind of statement to make, because it is not true. Not only are there administrative difficulties, as one of the Deputies who advised this course seemed to realise, but, in all this matter of increasing rations, there is also the consideration that the commodity must be there before the ration can be increased. If bread and flour were available in unlimited quantities, there would be no necessity at all for a rationing scheme.

For some time back, before it was found possible to give this increased ration to certain types of workers, I was very interested in the problem and had been urging this course, but, at the same time, I, speaking on behalf of the rural workers, was not being refused because somebody in the Department of Industry and Commerce, from the Minister down, was anxious to refuse or to deny the fullest co-operation. There were all these administrative difficulties, and not only were there administrative difficulties but there was the other difficulty of having a sufficient quantity available to enable the ration to be increased. It is all very well to make these suggestions, but it is not fair to follow them with the accusation that there was any dragging of such a concession for such an important group of workers from the Department responsible for dealing with the difficult task.

Deputy Hughes asked me to consider the possibility of having a forecast of weather conditions for farmers, so that they could plan ahead. I am afraid that the forecasts I have listened to for the past five or six weeks would not encourage me to become too enthusiastic about that as a contribution to a solution of the farmers' difficulties, but possibly they will be more reliable in future.

Mr. D. Morrissey

There was not very much variety in the weather for the past five or six weeks.

Mr. Smith

There certainly was not. I think it was Deputy Hughes who commented upon the unimportance of the plotholder question to which I referred at some length. It seems as if a number of other Deputies did not share his point of view. I agree with the Deputy who emphasised the psychological importance of the cultivation of these plots. There is nothing more vexatious to a farmer or farm worker than to think he has to put in this effort for people who will not take the opportunities provided for them to help themselves. He does not mind putting this effort into the provision of food for people who are otherwise engaged, but he certainly resents having to put in all this effort to provide food for people who are being supplied with free land, free seed, free equipment and free advice and being paid a certain sum of money because they unfortunately find themselves unemployed and who will not use their hands and these opportunities which are being thrown at their feet in order to relieve the farmer of having them included amongst those for whom he must make provision. I agree with Deputy Hughes that from the point of view of the area involved it is not an important matter, but it has, as other Deputies have pointed out, a psychological effect on the farmer.

Mr. Hughes

It is not an immediate problem.

Mr. Smith

It is not.

Mr. Hughes

There are weeks and weeks in which to deal with it.

Mr. Smith

They should be getting at it now and should be taking up their plots. While the ultimate total result of the effort might not mean a very substantial contribution to our food requirements, there is the fact that our farmers and farm workers will see that others are doing their level best to utilise all the spare time they have and are losing no opportunity to provide for themselves in such a way as to obviate the necessity of their becoming a burden on the national pool. While, in the matter of area, they are not important, they have, as I have said and as other Deputies seem to think, an importance above and beyond the area of land involved or the amount of food that will come from the effort.

All I have to say now is that, when Deputies suggest that they should be released from their work here in order to take up co-ordinating activities in their constituencies, I have full confidence in the secretaries and C.A.O.s in the different counties. I have full confidence in the ability of my own officials and the officials of the county councils to co-ordinate and to bring into one pool whatever plant is available and to find out where that plant is most required and to get the technical assistance to put that plant in motion. I appeal to these officials to throw into this effort every ounce of energy they have, and, like other Deputies, I appeal also to the parish priests, the parsons and all those who have influence with the public and who can bring about the greatest possible degree of co-operation amongst all the sections outside the farming community, so that, while these people may not be able to make any very formidable contribution to the relief or the assistance of the farmer in this great effort he is called on to make, the farmer will at least feel that he has their blessing and their goodwill and that, to the extent to which they can help him, they will do so.

I am very pleased indeed with the general tone of this discussion and very satisfied that the feeling of confidence to which expression has been given—confidence in ourselves, in our farmers and their workers and in all those vitally concerned—is not misplaced. I think they have the fullest possible appreciation of the enormous dangers to which we are exposed as a nation and of the importance of their throwing into this effort every ounce of the best that is in them.

General Mulcahy

The Minister has directed his mind to the unemployed and the plots, and I should like to know in that connection whether, in view of the rather disastrous effect the heavy programme which will fall to be done in the spring will have on the turf position, the Government are turning their mind to whether the unemployed would not be much better employed in relation to the spring turf campaign rather than in relation to plots, because the present situation will react very unfavourably on the turf programme.

Mr. Smith

That is another matter. While many of these unemployed persons to whom I have referred are quite capable and competent to work a plot, I do not know to what extent they could be utilised with advantage in the production of turf in the bog areas.

Mr. Halliden

Might I ask if there is any hope of getting an increase in the amount of artificial manures for the top-dressing of grass land? There will definitely be a further decrease in milk and butter production unless we can get better grass land. Would there be any hope of getting an increase in these artificial manures suitable for the top-dressing of lands which have deteriorated to a great extent owing to the bad weather?

Mr. Smith

That is another question, and I have no doubt that Deputies will have ample opportunity of getting after me in relation to all these matters. The important thing now is to use whatever artificial manures we have to encourage and increase crop production.

Mr. Commons

I should be glad if the Minister could make some regulation or Order by which, when a tractor goes out of order and is put into a garage for repairs, and when the owner may perhaps not be in a position to pay for those repairs as quickly or as handsomely as the owner of a big car, those repairs will get preference and the tractor will be made available for work within 24 hours.

Mr. Smith

That is one respect in which local co-operation can be used to the fullest. If there were a local committee and such a situation were to arise within its area, there is no reason why it should not be able to bring the necessary pressure upon the mechanic to ensure that the tractor will be repaired and to find the means by which the repairs would be paid for, even though the individual himself might not be in a position to pay.

Mr. Commons

The Minister sees the difficulty?

Mr. Smith

I see the difficulty, but these matters, while of the utmost importance, can be handled properly only by local effort.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 20th March, 1947.