Deputy Flanagan gave notice to-day that he would raise on the adjournment the subject-matter of Question 23 on today's Order Paper. I want to point out that the Minister will be called upon at 10.30 and must get his full ten minutes to reply.
Private Deputies' Business. - Adjournment Debate—Aliens and Purchase of Distillery.
Or earlier.
This country in recent years has experienced very many rackets. The country has experienced cheating by chancers of all sorts and sizes. When the Government's attention was drawn to a glaring case of injustice and corruption some few months ago against a member of the Government the Taoiseach was good enough to order an inquiry to investigate very fully the circumstances of such allegations. The subject-matter of the question that I am about to raise to-night with the Minister for Justice equally demands inquiry as did the case of Dr. Ward a few months ago.
To-day I asked the Minister for Justice:
"Whether he is aware if any Swiss nationals came to this country in connection with the sale of Locke's Distillery, Kilbeggan, County Westmeath; if so, if he will give their names, the dates of arrival and departure, and whether they came under police observation while in this country."
The Minister replied saying:
"I do not think it desirable that any official records which may exist as regards the movements or business of persons who come to this country from abroad should be made public, unless in a particular case some public interest would be served by doing so.
I must therefore decline to give the information asked for by the Deputy."
I think that is most extraordinary in a case where we have had ample proof of the activities of those people who came to this country for the purpose of purchasing one of Ireland's oldest established industries. The manner in which they conducted themselves certainly calls for attention. I may say that if inquiries were addressed to the Minister concerning people coming here from abroad for the purpose of an honest-to-God, straightforward deal there would certainly be no obligation on the Minister to give information concerning the activities of those people; but when a member of this House or when the general public have information at their disposal that those people who came over here for the purpose of purchasing that distillery were international chancers of fame, I think it is most desirable that this House should be given an opportunity of hearing who those people were, hearing the dates on which they came to this country and of their activities while in the country, and the nature of the work they performed during their stay in the country to carry out the necessary business in connection with Locke's Distillery.
I asked the Minister if those people were under police observation. The Minister has refused quite blank to give this House any idea whether those people were under police observation, despite the fact that there was another question to the Minister when he replied that they were under police observation and that one of those referred to in the question was arrested and deported.
The Minister is very well aware of the fact that negotiations were proceeding for the sale of this distillery to a firm in Switzerland. He is also aware of the fact that a group of Irish citizens made an attempt to take over and develop and to improve the conditions in this distillery, and that the Government refused to receive a deputation to discuss the matter and refused to entertain the claims of Irish nationals for this distillery, good, bad or indifferent, whilst on the other hand a group of foreigners, the international chancers that I have referred to, have come over here and have found a spot in the hearts of Fianna Fáil henchmen. Those are the very people who have been favoured in connection with Locke's distillery. The Minister is aware of the fact that yesterday a communication arrived to the solicitor concerned with the sale to say that a nephew of the President of Ireland was to complete the sale through a Senator of the Fianna Fáil Party on behalf of those citizens in Switzerland. Surely, that is a state of affairs on which this House is entitled to some information. The House is entitled to call for an inquiry and an investigation into this whole matter.
I should be very glad if the Minister would explain to this House, in view of the allegations that have been made against the Minister for Industry and Commerce and against Senator Quirke and also against other prominent Government representatives, as well as this gentleman to whom I have referred, why he refuses to give the information that I have asked for in my Question. Is it because the Minister would feel embarrassed at giving the names and the addresses of the very people who were entertained in Arus an Uachtaráin? What explanation can be given, or what must the opinion of all Irish citizens be, when the President or head of this State should entertain people of such a low standard as the type of chancers we have seen here in connection with this sale?
How they were entertained does not arise even on your own Question.
I am asking the Minister for Justice for information concerning those people. The Minister has refused to supply me with that information. I say that the reason the Minister has refused to supply the information is because the Minister is afraid that if he supplied the information asked for in my Question we are going to have a second national scandal in this country.
The Deputy did not put anything down in his Question as to how they were entertained. He asked if they were under police observation.
I am not querying about their entertainment now, but I am defying the Minister to give me the information that I asked for in my Question to-day. The Minister has very good reasons for withholding the information, in order to safeguard the names of his colleagues and in order to safeguard a certain Minister of State that has a keen personal interest in the question of the sale of Locke's Distillery. The Minister is very well aware of the fact that the name of one of those gentlemen was Mr. Eindiguer, and that this gentleman came over here in his own plane. The Minister is well aware of the circumstances under which he arrived. The Minister knows the people, the persons who met this gentleman and his colleagues on this business of the question of the purchase of Locke's Distillery.
Who met him does not arise.
It does arise.
Not out of your Question.
Yes. I have asked the Minister for the dates of the arrival and departure of this gentleman. I have respectfully asked the Minister to give the information. I say that the Minister is deliberately withholding this information from the House and that he knows perfectly well the date that these gentlemen came, and the date that they left, and that he has records at his disposal concerning their activities. I have certain information at my disposal which I am prepared to hand over to the Minister and which would have very serious consequences if an investigation or an inquiry is held, in so far as this gentleman, Mr. George Eindiguer, stated in the presence of a number of citizens in a certain hotel in this city that it was suggested by Senator Quirke that it might be a nice friendly gesture if Mr. Eindiguer would bring over a gold watch and give it to the Taoiseach's son as a present in order to soften things. That is a statement I can stand over; that is a statement that was made by Senator Quirke to Mr. Eindiguer.
The Deputy is making charges which do not arise in any way out of his question.
I am making charges which I can stand over and that is the reason I am inviting an inquiry.
They are not in the Deputy's question.
An Ceann Comhairle resumed the Chair.
I believe we have an outstanding case that those Swiss citizens were here for no good purpose. I respectfully submit that I am in a position to convince the Minister that the mission that brought those Swiss citizens to this country was not a good one. It is my duty as a citizen and as a Deputy, as it is the duty of every citizen and every Deputy, if I know of cases where there is either smuggling or black marketing going on, to have that reported to the proper Minister so that the necessary action may be taken by the Minister. I have endeavoured to convey to the Minister that these gentlemen came over here for the purpose of black marketing whiskey. That was the purpose which brought them over. Sixty-six thousand gallons of whiskey from this distillery at Kilbeggan were to be sold by those irresponsible Swiss citizens at £11 per gallon in the black market to a Mr. Jameson, representing Messrs. James Stewart & Co., distillers, Park Lane, London, and for this purchase in the black market they were to get £660,000.
The Deputy has nothing about that in his question. He asked for the names and the purpose for which they were here and the dates of arrival and departure of Swiss nationals.
I asked also if these Swiss nationals were under police observation while in this country.
Yes.
The Minister failed to reply. I maintain that these people were under police observation in this country. I have good reason to believe that the Minister has ample information about the dealings in black market whiskey these people were engaged in and that he has deliberately withheld it from this House for certain reason.
The Deputy might let the Minister in.
I very much regret to have to occupy the time of the House. I am sorry to say that, through the failure of the Government, Locke's good old distillery at Kilbeggan has now fallen into the hands of these people. Word came yesterday from the solicitors that the sale is to go through on behalf of those aliens by a friend of the President, a Mr. McSweeney, a well-known barrister in Dublin who, in my opinion, is equally as good a chancer as these other chancers.
The Deputy is making a scandalous use of his privileges in this House by introducing the names of men who cannot defend themselves, quite apart from the question he asked.
It can be proved.
He said more scandalous things than that before you came in.
It can be proved. It these statements are scandalous, is it not open to the Government to establish an inquiry into the conduct of these gentlemen?
It is not open to a Deputy to make a whole lot of charges which there is no opportunity of answering by the people concerned.
Set up an inquiry.
Before the Minister replies, I should like, in the public interest and in the interest of the good name of this country, to advise and warn the Government that very great damage may be done to the reputation of this country if there is any such thing as failure to give full information or any attempt to closure some of the references made here. Some of the references may appear entirely unwarranted, but I want the Minister to take this from me—that the statements made here to-night are comparatively tiny compared with some of the statements that are rolling round this country at the moment with regard to the manipulations and acrobatics and all the rest in connection with the proposed sale of Locke's Distillery to certain continentals. There does appear to be at least this much fire behind the smoke, and that is how the fire is being fanned, namely, that these particular premises were on the market and there was no great encouragement given in the direction of facilitating the sale to any outsider; in fact there was discouragement. Then a particular group of foreigners under rather big political patronage arrived in the country and within 24 hours of their arrival——
Mr. Boland
We know how it is being fanned now.
The Minister can take some people as being sincere other than himself.
Mr. Boland
I pick those whom I consider to be sincere.
We will leave the Minister to his corrupt selection. Meanwhile he will get the truth from me. The Minister knows when to interrupt. Within 24 hours of their arrival they were able to enter a Minister's office and get documents and evidence of trade facilities. Later on those were challenged or withdrawn or threatened to be withdrawn. In the meantime, there was a falling out between the negotiators. It seems extraordinary that foreigners, or any group of financiers from abroad, should get such an immediate entry and that subsequently one of them was found worthy of deportation. There is an amount to be inquired into and it will do harm to close down on this.
Will the Minister state——
Mr. Boland
I am entitled to reply.
The Minister is entitled to reply.
Mr. Boland
I am prepared to sit here as long as Deputies are allowed to speak.
The Minister to reply.
May I ask a question?
No. The Minister has ten minutes to reply.
Mr. Boland
I never heard that there was a charge made against the Minister for Industry and Commerce until I heard Deputy Flanagan say so to-night. It is the first I heard of it or of a charge against Senator Quirke. I was asked if I was aware that Swiss nationals came to this country in connection with the sale of Locke's Distillery; if I would give their names and the dates of arrival and departure; and whether they came under police observation while in this country. In reply I stated:
"I do not think it desirable that any official records which may exist as regards the movement or business of persons who come to this country from abroad should be made public, unless in a particular case some public interest would be served by doing so. I must therefore decline to give the information asked for by the Deputy."
Of course, when supplementary questions were raised it was immediately clear to me that there was a public interest to be served and I asked the Ceann Comhairle to make sure that this question would be allowed to be raised. I propose to give the history of this matter so far as I know it. A Mr. George Eindigeur arrived at Shannon Airport on the 3rd of September, not in his own plane as the Deputy stated, but in an ordinary plane. He informed the immigration officer that he was coming on a business visit to a well-known South of Ireland business man. I do not like to use the name of any outsider, but this is a very well-known business man who is not a supporter of the Government, quite the reverse.
He is a well-known Fine Gael supporter in Clonmel.
Mr. Boland
He is not a supporter of ours.
Some people know who he is.
Mr. Boland
He was accompanied by Alexander Maximoe, who was then posing as Horace Henry Smith and who held a British passport. I am reading this so that I may be accurate. Information reached the Department of Justice towards the end of September that Mr. Eindiguer had entered into a contract to purchase Locke's. At the same time it was discovered that Messrs. Eindiguer and Maximoe were associating with an alien who had orders to leave the country. The police were then instructed by my Department to make inquiries regarding Messrs. Eindiguer and Maximoe. In a few days Maximoe's real identity was discovered and an order for his deportation was issued at once by me. I should mention that there is no evidence of any fraudulent activity on the part of Mr. Eindiguer. I understand that in the negotiations to purchase the distillery he was represented by a well-known Dublin firm of solicitors, and that a well-known firm of auctioneers acted as his agents.
A very well-known auctioneer—Senator Quirke.
Mr. Boland
Very well-known auctioneers—Messrs. Stokes and Quirke. His credentials, as they appeared to those firms, might be summed up in the words used by the Irish Times, on October 6th, namely: “Mr. Eindiguer is a well-known figure in international trade and has completed big deals on behalf of industrialists in Switzerland, South America and other countries. He visited Ireland on behalf of important interests to investigate the possibilities of increased whiskey exports to South America, where there is a considerable market for the product. Exporters last night said that the trade, apart from the purchase price, would help to create important dollar credits abroad.” That is from the Irish Times of the 6th October. I understand that, in fact, the deal has not been completed and that published statements that the purchase price has been paid are not correct. It was stated in the Irish Times that the deal was completed.
In the Irish Press,
Mr. Boland
I got a telephone message to my own house from a friend of mine who told me that he wanted to communicate a very important matter to me. I told this friend to come along. When I got his information, I immediately rang up an official of the Aliens Section of my Department and told him to bring along the chief superintendent in charge of the Special Branch of the Garda Síochána. They came to me almost immediately—within an hour. The outcome of that was that this man who had been passing as Smith was identified as Maximoe. He was arrested in a flat in Dublin occupied by another alien. I had not known that when replying to Deputy Dillon this afternoon. I had not followed the details and I said that I thought he was arrested at the Aer Lingus offices. The police knew that he was to leave by air but he never turned up. They were watching his luggage. I then signed a deportation order. The Guards went out to this house and got him there.
The house of a friend of the Minister
Mr. Boland
Not at all.
I shall give his name.
Mr. Boland
I do not care what his name is, he is no friend of mine.
Order!
He is an alien who sold £25,000 worth of Irish tweed to get dollars for you.
Mr. Boland
He is no friend of mine. I do not know who the man is but he is under notice to quit this country.
He got the dollars for you.
Mr. Boland
He is not naturalised. He is under orders to leave the country but he was allowed time to complete his business.
Is it true that Scotland Yard came over for him?
Mr. Boland
They were after Maximoe.
We have the whole story.
Mr. Boland
With regard to the questions addressed to me this afternoon, I have a little note here. As the Minister for Industry and Commerce said this afternoon, no application was made for an export licence for 60,000 gallons of matured whiskey.
Senator Quirke was at the office.
Mr. Boland
There was no application made and if it had been made, it would have been refused. Locke's have a normal export permit for 4,000 gallons per annum and this was doubled as it had been the practice to do for all such small distilleries who made application. The total quantity allowed to be exported from the whole country is 500,000 gallons per annum. If an application had been made for the export of 60,000 gallons or any other similarly large quantity of whiskey by this firm, it would have been refused. It was put up to the Department that the 4,000 gallons should be increased and it was increased to 8,000 gallons per year. These people, however, were told that unless this distillery was kept as a going concern or if any attempt was made to dissipate their stocks, any export licences granted would be withdrawn. In regard to the visit to the President, unfortunately that did happen.
It is very difficult to check everyone who comes forward. People actually get to see the heads of State in other countries who are not all that is desirable. It did happen that this group did go to the President and it was as a result of the publication of that and the fact that one particular name appeared, that this man who came to me got suspicious of the whole crowd. It was published in the papers in the morning of the day on which this friend of mine came to me to tell me of his suspicions. The result is that one has been shifted out. The other man was all the time under notice. We have curtailed the notice as a result of his action in this transaction.
How long was Scotland Yard over here before they intercepted this man?
The Dáil adjourned at 10.40 p.m. until Thursday, 23rd October, 1947, at 3 p.m.