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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Oct 1947

Vol. 108 No. 8

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take business as on the Order Paper, in the following order: Nos. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, with 1 and 2 in their proper places. It is proposed that the resumed debate on No. 9 should begin at 7 o'clock and conclude at 10.30.

I was informed on inquiry about 11 o'clock this morning that the order in which business would be taken would be Nos. 9, 10 and 11; that, as anticipated from the discussion that took place before the Adjournment last night, the first thing on the Order Paper to-day would be this motion, No. 9, and that the debate would be continued without restriction of time. I was so informed by the Chief Government Whip at 11 o'clock this morning when I inquired about the Order of Business. It was not until two hours ago, after 1 o'clock, that I was informed again by the Government Chief Whip that that was changed and that, instead of coming on immediately after Questions, with unrestricted time for debate, the motion would not come on until 7 o'clock to-night. I ask what is the reason for the change?

The Parliamentary Secretary was not aware that Ministers who are concerned in the discussion had engagements in the afternoon which were made when it was thought another Order of Business would be followed. There is no desire to restrict the discussion. I think three and a half hours ample for it, but if there is a desire for further time I am prepared to move that the Dáil sit late.

Would the Tánaiste say who are the Ministers whose absence from the House would prevent this motion being taken now?

I do not think that is a question which should be asked.

It is not merely incompetence on the part of the Government that the Chief Government Whip is not able to tell the proper order of the business of the House at 11 o'clock in the morning: it is a piece of dirty trickery.

If the Deputy is going to allege that, we will adopt the principle of not telling the Deputy at all. It is done as a matter of courtesy.

The Government has come to the point at which Deputies know nothing at all until they come into the House. If a Deputy is expected to come into the House not knowing what business is going to be discussed——

That was the practice when the Opposition were the Government.

There is the greatest possible difficulty in any member of the House finding out any day at 1 o'clock the nature of the order of business on the Order Paper. I protest to the Taoiseach now. The Taoiseach was afforded facilities by the House last night in the discussion on the motion, the original time of which was restricted by Government intention to three and a half hours last night. That debate ran longer than the Government thought they wanted it to run, because the matter was so important that the House wanted to discuss it—particularly, the Taoiseach wanted to discuss it—at greater length. The discussion which went on yesterday shows the interest there is in this motion and there is raised in it more than Kilbeggan.

The Deputy is discussing the motion.

There are raised high Constitutional matters affecting the rights and liberties of members of this House.

What has that to do with the hour at which the discussion begins?

It has this to do with it, that in respect of important Government business affecting the whole of this House and affecting important principles with regard to this House, the Government are ratting on an agreement come to last night, that the Government are changing the Order of Business which they gave out at 11 o'clock this morning and are putting Deputies into the position, in regard to business now going to be discussed immediately after questions, that some of them who would be dealing with that business are not here. At any rate, I charge the Government with a dirty piece of trickery——

Why not with corruption?

——in changing the business as arranged this morning and particularly in changing from the intention that the House understood was decided on at 10.30 last night.

On that point, I would like to remind Deputy Mulcahy that when we were in opposition and I was the Whip he never informed us of the Order of Business and sometimes the business was not even taken in the order appearing on the Order Paper. On one occasion, a Supplementary Budget was introduced here without our being informed that it would be introduced. We have gone out of our way as far as we could to facilitate every part of the House in arranging the business. Deputy Mulcahy must have a bad memory if he does not remember these things. I remember them very well.

Might I make a respectful submission? When the matter was raised last night, when the Taoiseach was speaking, that the customary courtesy was to give way to the mover of the motion 20 minutes before the debate was to end, the Taoiseach intimated that it was necessary for him to make certain additional observations. There was some discussion then as to whether by unanimous consent the Order fixed earlier in the day was suspended and the Tánaiste intervened to say: "Very well, you can have it to-morrow and talk about it as long as you like"; whereupon all of us on this side of the House said: "If that be the Tánaiste's suggestion, it would be ridiculous to ask the Taoiseach to sit down", and we all agreed that the Taoiseach should proceed. Let us put it no further than that. If the House takes the Tánaiste's word——

What time does the Deputy think they want?

Never mind that. If the Tánaiste gives his word and the House accepts it, may I submit—if we are not going to turn the place into a bear garden—that whatever the inconvenience involved, there is an obligation on the Tánaiste?

If the Deputy has finished I would suggest that from 7 o'clock to 10.30 o'clock, three and a half hours, would be ample time.

You thought that yesterday too.

I suggest that the Dáil sit later than 10.30 o'clock to-night and that the Order for the adjournment be taken not later than 8 a.m. to-morrow.

Was not the substance of the agreement that the debate should be continued without limit to-day?

I have no such subtle mind as that.

Members of the Government have certain other work to do. The Tánaiste gave a promise that unlimited time would be given for the discussion if it were required. The only difference is that it is being put off from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock.

Two and two make four not four and a half or three and a half or three and three-quarters.

You said the Ministers have other work to do. The primary duty of Ministers is to attend here in Parliament when their attendance is wanted. The members of Parliament come here from one end of the country to the other to do business and it is the primary duty of Ministers to attend.

Mr. Boland

Is it for the Opposition to arrange the Order of Business or for the Government?

This is dictatorship.

At whatever hour it concludes the mover of the motion has a right to have 20 minutes to reply.

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