asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that old horses are being exported from this State to the Continent for use as food; and, if so, whether he will take steps to stop this traffic.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Export of Old Horses.
asked the Minister for Agriculture (a) if an article under the title "Traffic in Horses", published in an English newspaper on the 16th May, 1948, has been brought to his notice, in which it is alleged that there is open flouting in England and Belgium of this Government's Order prohibiting the export of horses for slaughter to these countries, and that these horses, having been imported as working horses, are subjected to the most brutal treatment before being slaughtered and sold in the black market for human consumption; (b) if he has inquired into the veracity of these allegations; and (c) should the result of his inquiries warrant it, if he will take the matter up with the Governments of the countries concerned, with a view to putting a stop to these inhuman practices.
With your permission, a Chinn Chomhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 25 and 26 together.
Frequently articles and letters in the Press reopen the question of the propriety of exporting horses to the Continent. They are usually accompanied by lurid photographs illustrating gross ill-usage of the horses. Recently one such article appeared in an English newspaper where the letterpress referred to exports from Ireland, but the picture designed to shock, related to a consignment of horses which originated on the other side of the Atlantic and had never even touched at an Irish port. The export of wornout horses is strictly prohibited from Ireland. Horses presented for shipment must be in good condition, strong, healthy, fit to work and not aged. We have always had a valuable trade with several Continental countries for working horses, troopers and blood-stock. The strictest veterinary inspection is enforced at all Irish ports of embarkation, and if any horse appears to the veterinary surgeon to be beyond its work or in any respect sick or injured, the veterinary surgeon does not allow the animal to be shipped. Furthermore, our veterinary inspectors must be satisfied that the accommodation on board the ship is adequate and safe for any horses exported from this country and that sufficient fodder and water are provided for the animals.
We have no reason whatever to believe that any horses exported from this country are ill-used in any way in transit, but it is to be borne in mind that if they are transhipped through other countries to which our jurisdiction does not extend it is physically impossible for us to maintain supervision over them once they have left our jurisdiction. It is true that in recent years the acute scarcity of protein human food on the Continent of Europe has probably increased the use of horse flesh for human consumption, with the result that some horses may be more valuable to purchasers abroad for slaughter as butcher's meat than they would be as working horses.
My Department has never, and will not in future, sanction the export of horse flesh from this country in any form for human consumption, as to do so would be at variance with the long established practice of exporting to foreign markets nothing but the highest quality in any branch of agricultural produce such as meat or other live-stock products. It is, nevertheless, true that in Continental countries, where public sentiment is not so closely engaged for horses and the sports and recreations associated therewith, horse flesh for human consumption is continually used and excites no repugnance in the consumers or in public opinion at large.
In these circumstances it does not appear to me proper to suggest that we should terminate a valuable export industry in horses because of a popular antipathy in this country to the consumption of horseflesh as human food; and I have no reason to believe that the abattoir conditions in which horseflesh is prepared for human consumption in Continental countries are such as to cause any anxiety on the score of brutality or lack of feeling in the methods of slaughter employed. If, however, at any time, any case is brought to my notice of improper conduct in the handling of horses consigned from this country to any other country, either at the port of embarkation, in transit, or in any abattoir or slaughter-house abroad, I shall spare no effort to have it carefully investigated and in the event of any abuse coming to light, in taking prompt and effective measures to ensure that there shall be no recurrence of any such abuse.
I have thought it well to deal exhaustively with this matter owing to the recurrent publicity which it receives, and I trust that interested parties will have regard to this statement and forbear from general allegations in the absence of any evidence which they may be in a position to furnish to me for the exhaustive investigation which I would be most ready to undertake.
While the Minister's reply is reassuring, might I ask him if it is a fact that those horses can be admitted to Belgium only for food, that they cannot be allowed in as working horses?
I have no such information.
Would the Minister make inquiries?
Even if that were true, it would not invalidate the attitude which I have indicated as being the attitude of my Department because, provided the horses are dealt with in a humane manner and treated with care and kindness, even if they are imported for slaughter for human consumption, there does not seem to be any good reason why their export should be prohibited from this country.
Might I put it to the Minister this way, that the Minister will allow them to be exported from here only for working purposes, not for slaughter——
No, no.
——and that they can be imported into Belgium only for slaughter?
The Deputy has misunderstood the position. There is no prohibition on the export of horses for slaughter. There is a prohibition on the export of horseflesh for human consumption. There is no prohibition on the export of horses which it is intended to slaughter on arrival at their destination, and it does not seem to be any part of our business to determine, if a man buys a horse in Ireland, whether he is to use it as a saddle horse, a cart horse or for the purposes of meat, provided always that the animal is treated with humanity and proper consideration.
Might I suggest to the Minister that the great majority of those horses exported are old horses that have given good service in this country, and is it fair or right, when we know they are imported into Belgium for slaughter and to be sold in the black market, that we should in any way assist that trade?
In reply to the Deputy I should like to make it clear that in no circumstances would we permit any exports which we believed to be going into the black market or the illegitimate market. Every beast shipped from this country passes through the ordinary channels of trade. The horses are not broken-down horses. The export of such, as I have indicated to the Deputy in my principal reply, is not permitted. The horses, which vary in age, are almost all in first-class condition and, provided they are humanely treated, it does not seem to me to reflect in any way on the country or the Department that they should be put to fit and proper use, whatever that may be, at their destination. If the Deputy thinks it is not desirable to eat horse, I do not see why he does not break his heart over cow, sheep or pig.