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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 Jul 1948

Vol. 112 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Vote 61—Posts and Telegraphs.

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £2,975,840 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1949, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; the Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1928; No. 14 of 1940 (secs. 30 and 31); No. 14 of 1942 (sec. 23); etc.), and of certain other Services administered by that Office.

The gross Post Office Estimate for 1948/49 amounts to £4,770,298, but, allowing for receipts totalling £245,458 to be appropriated in aid, the net Estimate is for £4,524,840. This represents an increase of £36,140 over the net provision for 1947/48. The more substantial variations—those over £5,000— occur on the following sub-heads:—

Sub-heads A (1) to A (4)—Salaries, Wages and Allowances. There is a net increase under these sub-heads of £74,090. Provision is made for additional expenditure amounting to £124,033, to meet normal incremental increases; additional staff to provide for growth of work, increased remuneration to sub-postmasters, etc. Against this additional expenditure there are offsetting decreases amounting to £49,943, due to savings on retirements, reduced provision for temporary staff, etc.

E (2)—Conveyance of mails by road. The increase, £14,300, is due to the introduction of new road services; higher subsidies to mail car contractors, including Córas Iompair Éireann, as a result of increased operating costs of transport; and to higher payments for casual assistance on delivery duties.

E (5)—Conveyance by air. The increase of £42,750 is due to the material growth of traffic arising from trade revival since the end of hostilities, from greater facilities afforded by more frequent and varied air services and from lower air postage rates. The air mail traffic despatched from the Shannon Airport to the U.S.A., for example, has more than doubled.

G (1)—Stores (Non-Engineering). On this sub-head there is an increase of £16,320. The provision of this sub-head is for the purchase of non-engineering stores. The increase is due mainly to provision for the purchase of mail bags the renewal of which had been held up because of the difficulty in securing suitable material during the emergency.

G (2)—Uniform Clothing. The increase of £11,710 is due to the building up of stocks of cottons which became seriously depleted during the emergency years, to additional tailoring costs and to a partial resumption of the issue of uniform to postmen and boy messengers.

I (1)—Engineering Establishment, Salaries, Wages and Allowances. There is a decrease of £57,455. This sub-head provides for the total pay of the engineering branch staff but the cost of staff time employed on the development of the telephone service as distinct from its maintenance is defrayed from telephone capital funds. The speeding up of telephone development this year will, therefore, cause greater relief from the funds, namely, £170,885 as against £74,435 last year.

While, therefore, the sub-head makes provision for additional payment for staff amounting to £38,995, this is more than offset by the greater relief from telephone capital funds, leaving a net decrease on the sub-head of £57,455.

K—Engineering Materials. On this sub-head there is a decrease of £15,585. Provision is made for increased purchases of engineering stores, £96,720, more than offset by relief, £112,305, from telephone capital funds in respect of stores employed for telephone capital works.

L (3)—Engineering Contract Work. The increase of £13,050 is in respect of additional telegraph, etc., construction.

M—Telephone Capital Repayments. This sub-head is increased by £9,462. As Deputies are aware, funds for the development of the telephone system are provided under the authority of the Telephone Capital Acts (1924-1946) which authorise the Minister for Finance to issue out of the Central Fund sums for this purpose. They are repayable by means of terminable annuities extending over a period not exceeding 20 years. In consultation with the Minister for Finance provision is made each year under this sub-head for the repayment of the instalments of principal and interest on the annuities created. The increase indicates the continuing expansion of the telephone system.

N (1) to N (3)—Superannuation Allowances, etc. The decrease under sub-head N (1) amounts to £50,720, due mainly to reduced provision for additional allowances (£52,200) and marriage gratuities (£2,730), offset by minor variations amounting to £4,210.

The decrease—£3,040—under N (2) is due to the deaths of Treaty pensioners, while the increase—£4,000—under N (3) represents certain bonus payments to officers who gave notice of retirement under the Treaty, prior to 1st March, 1929. The retiring allowances in these cases are paid without an overriding maximum in regard to cost-of-living bonus and the British Administration repays the difference between the cost-of-living figure at the time of retirement and any higher cost-of-living figure which subsequently may become operative. The repayments are brought to credit under sub-head T (12).

Q (1) to Q (3).—Civil aviation and meteorological services. These services are controlled by the Department of Industry and Commerce but the engineering personnel (technical and labour) is provided by the Post Office and paid for out of this sub-head, which also defrays the cost of providing and installing equipment and the maintenance charges of the radio stations, rent., etc. The amount so paid is charged against the Department of Industry and Commerce in the post office commercial accounts as a "service rendered."

Appropriations-in-Aid. The estimated increase of £20,457 is based mainly on the expectation that £8,000 will be received from the British Administration in respect of the excess of incoming parcel traffic from Britain over outgoing traffic; that £4,000 more than last year will be repaid on foot of Treaty, etc., pensions; and that savings bank funds will repay £4,000 more in respect of anticipated additional staff costs.

The financial position of the three main services—postal, telegraph and telephone—at the end of 1946-47, the latest year for which complete figures are available, was not unfavourable on the whole, though a substantial disimprovement was evident as compared with the previous year. It was as follows:—

Postal Services—deficit £26,980, as against a surplus of £32,512 in 1945-46.

Telegraph Service—deficit £140,515, as against a deficit of £116,001.

Telephone Service—surplus of £253,119, as against £298,004.

The net surplus on the three services for 1946-47 was £85,624, as compared with £214,515 for the previous year and will be seen to have been achieved by the buoyant returns from the working of the telephone service.

My predecessor intimated last year that this surplus was likely to fall still further in view of growing costs. It will perhaps be well, therefore, if I refer briefly to the causes of the deficits on the postal and telegraph services.

On the postal service the swing-over from a surplus of £32,512 to a deficit of £26,980 was, in the main, caused by increased expenditure of £204,000 on salaries, wages, etc., which was due to extra staff and consolidation of salaries and wages, of £35,000 on uniform clothing, etc., of £67,500 on conveyance of mails, while provision for mailbags, etc., and pension liability amounted to a further £28,000. This increased expenditure was partly offset by a growth in postal revenue of £271,000.

On the telegraph service the increased deficit was attributable to higher salaries and wages, which was, again, mainly due to extra staff and consolidation, and to higher costs of maintenance, etc., offset in some measure by additional revenue from extra traffic.

The completed revenue and expenditure figures for the three services for the financial year 1947-48, are not yet available, but preliminary figures suggest that, as compared with the years 1945-46 and 1946-47, when there were surpluses of £214,515 and £85,624, respectively, the balance for 1947-48 will be much less favourable. Indeed the year's working may even show a loss. In view of this possibility and taking into account growing costs generally, including increased expenditure on mail services —to which I will refer later—it is quite clear that a very substantial deficit for the financial year 1948-49 would have resulted unless steps were taken to increase revenue. The Department, accordingly, found it necessary to impose certain increases in rates as from 1st July, and particulars of these have been announced. The increases, which are expected to produce additional revenue to the extent of £200,000 per annum, principally affect the printed paper and parcel post services, which have hitherto been carried out at a relatively greater loss than other types of postal business.

Mails. In regard to mails, I am glad to say that substantial progress has been made towards providing better services for the public than it has been possible to give for a number of years past. When my predecessor introduced his Estimate last year, the fuel crisis was acute; rail services were restricted and the mail services which, as Deputies are aware, are closely bound up with the rail transport system, suffered severely. Immediately the fuel crisis became less acute, however, and the transport situation became easier, the mail arrangements were extended and improved, and there has since been a progressive development towards a more satisfactory standard of service.

The first development of importance was the restoration of night mail services to and from the West of Ireland, which had been suspended since 1941. Restoration of these night mail services, which supplemented those already in operation to and from the South, was made possible by the introduction, principally for mail purposes, of night perishable trains to and from Athlone, to which connecting lorry services on the Sligo, Mayo and Athlone-Galway sections were arranged. The night mails on the Dublin-Wexford line were transferred to Departmental motor transport, with a substantial improvement in regularity of operation, and ensured that night mail postings at offices on the Dublin-Wexford line would secure the first morning delivery in Dublin. Special road transport for night mails in the Waterford-Mallow, Portarlington-Tullamore and Birr-Ballybrophy-Roscrea areas was also introduced, with beneficial results. Later in the year, Departmental transport was introduced for mails on the Galway-Clifden line, resulting in a much earlier delivery throughout Connemara. The Dublin-Kells motor van service was restored in December last.

Following the further recent improvement in the fuel position, opportunity was availed of to open negotiations with Córas Iompair Éireann with a view to improving the day mail services, and I am pleased to say that, as a result of these negotiations, the company found it possible to provide, as from 29th May, main line day mail trains on the southern and western sections of the company's system. Branch line offices are, for the present, being served by special road transport working in conjunction with the day mail trains. The day mail trains formerly occupied an important position in the Department's mail organisation as a whole, and their restoration is of substantial benefit to the mail service and to the public. In this connection, I would like to take this opportunity of expressing my appreciation of the manner in which the company co-operated with the Department in the matter.

On the southern section, the down day mail leaves Kingsbridge at 7 a.m., due Cork 11.35 a.m. The times of day mail deliveries are now much earlier than those in force up to 31st May. For example, the day mail delivery in Cork is at 12.30 p.m. instead of 4.15 p.m.; in Limerick, 3.15 p.m. instead of 4.45 p.m.; Waterford, 1.15 p.m. instead of 2 p.m.; Mallow, 12.0 noon instead of 4.0 p.m. Day mails from Dublin are now delivered in Tralee at 2.15 p.m.; Killarney, 2.30 p.m.; Bandon, 2 p.m.; Bantry, 4.30 p.m., and in Skibbereen at 3.30 p.m. on day of receipt. Prior to the 31st May, these mails were not delivered until the following morning.

The up day mail train leaves Cork at 3 p.m. and is due Kingsbridge 7.25 p.m. There are good posting facilities almost everywhere throughout the South, for mails forwarded by this train. A travelling post office works on the train and connections for correspondence are made at Dublin with the down night mails to the West and to the Dublin-Wexford line, with the outgoing right steamer to Great Britain and the late despatch to the North.

On the western section, the down day mail leaves Westland Row at 8.0 a.m. and is due in Galway at 12.15 p.m. The times of day mail deliveries throughout the Midlands and the West of Ireland generally are much earlier than those in force up to the 31st May. For example, the day mail delivery in Galway now commences at 1.10 p.m. instead of 5 p.m., in Mullingar at 11 a.m. instead of 12.30 p.m.; Athlone 12 noon instead of 2.45 p.m., Tuam 2 p.m. instead of 5 p.m. Day mails from Dublin are now delivered in Westport at 3.45 p.m. on day of receipt. Prior to the 31st May, these mails were not delivered until the following morning.

The up day mail train leaves Galway at 3 p.m., due Westland Row 7.20 p.m. There are good posting facilities throughout the West and Midlands for mails forwarded by this train. A travelling post office works on it and connections for correspondence are made at Dublin with the down night mails to the South and with the Dublin-Wexford line, with the outgoing night steamer to Great Britain and with the late despatch to the North. As in the case also of the up day mail from Cork, restoration of the up day mail from Galway results in considerable acceleration in the delivery of correspondence.

In view of the foregoing, Deputies will readily appreciate the advantages of the day mail services on the southern and western sections to the public, particularly the business community.

Road working for both night and day mails in the West Cork area was introduced on the 31st May, with immense benefit to the postal services in those parts. I hope that, as a result of these arrangements I will be spared the embarrassment of having to make any more apologies for the unsatisfactory services which previously obtained in West Cork and which were due entirely to the unsatisfactory rail transport available for mail purposes in that area.

Night mail arrangements in Counties Carlow and Kilkenny were improved by the introduction of a night road service on the 31st May, which works in conjunction with the Dublin and Cork night mail trains. Night mail services were also improved in County Kerry, including the Tralee-Dingle section. Night mail correspondence from Dublin, Cork and the South of Ireland generally now obtains first delivery in Tralee next morning. Previously, this correspondence was not delivered until 11.45 a.m. on the day after posting. It was possible to have the night mail train from Youghal to Cork reintroduced on the 31st May and this resulted in the restoration of the pre-war night mail services at offices on the Cork-Youghal branch. Mail services were also improved in County Offaly—particularly in the Banagher, Belmont, Ferbane, Clara and Ballycumber areas.

I regret that it has not yet been possible to secure the restoration of suitable day mail trains on the Dublin-Wexford line, but the day mail services in this area are being examined with a view to their improvement.

So far as the cross-Channel mails are concerned, the night steamer service has continued without interruption since September, 1946. The working of this service is not, however, as satisfactory as formerly, principally on account of the later morning arrival in Dún Laoghaire, and as a result of this, it is not possible to afford connection between the incoming steamer and the new down day mail train to the South. Indeed, on account of unpunctual operation of the steamer, the connection with the 8 a.m. train to Galway cannot always be secured. The difficulties arising from this are, however, receiving careful attention to see what can be done. The day cross-Channel steamers have recently been restored temporarily and the restoration of these will have the effect of accelerating the delivery of portion of the correspondence between Ireland and Great Britain.

The decision to afford increased frequency of delivery in rural districts has been implemented, except in certain areas where difficulties have been encountered in avoiding the creation of undesirable small part-time posts. It is proposed to overcome these by examination on the spot by headquarters officers, and this has already commenced. These officers will also revise the rural services generally, to ensure that the most efficient and economic methods are being employed to provide satisfactory services for the public. Where the increased frequency has been provided, it has resulted in a marked improvement in the remuneration of part-time staff generally.

The postal traffic throughout the year was heavy, and the Christmas traffic created new records. During the fortnight prior to the last General Election, poll cards and election communications totalling over 8,000,000 were delivered. The number of parcels received from Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1947 exceeded the number of outgoing parcels to these destinations for the first time since 1939. This change in the trend of interState parcel traffic is mainly due to a large increase in the number of incoming trade parcels and a very substantial fall in outgoing traffic due to the suspension of the sending of gift parcels of meat to Great Britain.

TELEGRAPHS.

Telegraph traffic showed an increase on the figures for the previous year, with a consequent improvement in revenue receipts. Despite this additional revenue, however, the loss on the service for the financial year 1947-48 is likely to exceed substantially the loss of £140,515 for the financial year 1946-47. This, in the main, is attributable to the cost of additional staff, to higher expenditure on salaries and wages and to increased costs of maintenance.

To meet the demand for private teleprinter circuits, an additional 18-channel Voice Frequency System has been provided between Dublin and London. It is also intended to provide a second 18-channel system between Dublin and Limerick and the substitution of an 18-channel system for the existing 6-channel system between Dublin and Cork is being considered. Arrangements are also in hand for improving the internal service generally, by the extension of the use of tele-printers between Dublin and certain provincial centres.

TELEPHONES.

Telephone traffic continues to grow and in 1947 the total calls numbered 61,460,000 as compared with 60,452,000 in 1946. The increase would have been greater but for the severe damage caused by storms early in 1947, to which I shall refer later.

While the position regarding supplies, to which my predecessor referred in detail last year, has eased substantially, there are still some difficulties and delays in obtaining deliveries.

It has, however, been found possible in the last year to improve the standard of service generally. Additional equipment was installed in the Dublin automatic exchanges serving the central city area. Before this equipment was installed, traffic which has been growing rapidly for some years past was much beyond the capacity of the automatic exchange. The Dublin trunk exchange also was extended. A large suite of modern switchboards, which have been on order for some years, is likely to be in service within the next few days. In the meantime, every possible expedient is being adoptd to reduce delay in answering subscribers.

During the year, additional equipment was installed at about 16 provincial exchanges, including Cork, Letterkenny, Mullingar, etc. The fitting of additional equipment at some other exchanges has been held up owing to the necessity for structural alterations to provide accommodation.

Before the end of the year additional circuits were provided on numerous routes, mostly by the installation of three-channel carrier equipment. This equipment enables three additional conversion channels to be obtained from one pair of wires. In all, 7,500 miles of additional circuits were provided during the year, bringing the total trunk circuit mileage to 28,135.

The Dublin-Sligo route, which serves the North-West and which was subject to very heavy delay conditions, was relieved by the provision of six additional circuits. Three circuits were provided between Waterford and Limerick, thus establishing direct communication between the two places.

There is still heavy delay on the Western route to Athlone and Galway, but it may be possible to give relief during the present year.

Most of the circuits provided last year were on the main trunk routes. During the coming year it is proposed to provide as many as possible of the shorter lines needed to reduce delays to and from the smaller centres off the main routes.

The number of cross-Channel circuits which was increased in 1948 from 16 to 26 has recently been further increased to 48 circuits. The 22 extra lines have been obtained from two additional submarine cables laid at the end of last year in co-operation with the British Post Office. This is more than treble the number of cross-Channel lines available two years ago. There is now little or no delay during day hours. To cater for further growth of cross-Channel traffic, the question of providing more circuits by laying another cable or otherwise is under consideration.

The severe snowstorms of February and March last year caused extensive damage to the Department's plant throughout the country. Many areas were completely isolated and, in order to restore communication at the earliest possible moment, temporary repairs were carried out in the first instance, which had subsequently to be made permanent. This was a big job, necessitating the employment of almost the entire overhead construction staff until the end of October. In consequence, development work on the new trunk lines, subscribers' circuits, etc., was seriously retarded, while the disorganisation of circuits resulted in a considerable reduction in the annual number of calls. It is estimated that 180,000 more trunk calls would have been made but for the storm damage. The total cost of repairing the damage due to the snowstorms is estimated at £60,000.

I am glad to say that the position as regards the connection of new subscribers is improving. A start was made on the systematic clearance of arrears of waiting applications in 1946. The work was interrupted by the diversion of staff to repair storm damage but was resumed in December last when there were some 7,000 waiting applications on hands. It is intended to provide service for almost all these this year. Some 2,900 had already been dealt with by the end of June. The main obstacles in our way are lack of exchange equipment and shortage of spare circuits in the underground cables in the cities and towns. These are being overcome as rapidly as the supplies and labour position permit.

Following the rearrangement of equipment in the Dublin automatic exchanges last year to cater for more subscribers it was necessary to transfer to the exchange at Crown Alley all subscribers' lines formerly connected to the exchange at Ship Street. As a consequence the numbers of the lines transferred (about 2,000 altogether) had to be changed from the series beginning with the figure "2" to the series beginning with "7". The subscribers concerned were advised of the impending change in August and it was carried out on 1st November. Arrangements were made whereby anybody dialling the old numbers would be automatically connected to the new numbers. Over 200 of the subscribers affected will have their numbers changed again within the next few months and they have been advised accordingly. Arrangements will be made as before whereby calls for their old numbers will be connected to their new numbers. The Department recognises that changes of telephone numbers cause inconvenience to subscribers but such changes are unavoidable when the service is being expanded. With the opening of new exchanges in Dublin in the next year or two further extensive changes of numbers will have to be made.

Telephone service was provided during the past year with Germany (British and United States zones only), Poland and Newfoundland.

It is part of the Department's policy to provide a telephone call office at every post office which has not hitherto had a public telephone, but this programme will have to be spread over a number of years. About 900 sub-offices altogether are affected. Most of these offices are in remote places and heavy line construction work is involved in giving them telephones. In view of the urgent need to give telephones to the people who were on the waiting list at 31st December last it has been decided to suspend the provision of call offices for the current year in favour of the clearance of waiting applications for telephones. To date 138 call offices have been provided under the approved scheme.

The building industry generally is still affected by the scarcity of materials and lack of skilled labour. It has, however, been found possible during the past year to maintain reasonably steady progress with the Department's programme for improvements and extensions in post office accommodation generally which was greatly retarded by the difficulties experienced for some years past and which has now become imperative owing to the further development of the services. In towns where it is not possible to effect the necessary improvement within the limits of the existing holdings, additional properties or sites are being secured. Already new properties or sites have been acquired at Ballina, Bandon, Bray, Carlow, Drogheda, Dundalk, Galway, Kilrush, Kilkenny, Limerick, Portlaoighise, Rathluirc, Roscrea, Sligo and Wicklow.

Work on a new auto-manual telephone exchange at Cork is in progress and is due for completion in the autumn, when further improvements in the accommodation there will be undertaken. It is expected that the new auto exchange and engineering office at Waterford will be ready in 1950, and much-needed extensions to the post office at Claremorris are being provided immediately.

The full plans of the new post office and telephone exchange at St. Andrew Street, Dublin, have been completed, but building operations have been temporarily deferred in favour of more urgent State projects. Fresh preparatory sketch plans of the new central sorting offices at Pearse Street, Dublin, are under examination. It was found necessary to discard the former proposals as it was felt that they would not provide adequately for the changes in traffic and expansion of services that have recently taken place, and are apparently of a permanent nature. The scheme for the erection and lease of an extensive new building at the rere of Hammam Buildings, O'Connell Street, to accommodate a new automatic telephone exchange (North City), new telephone headquarters, and new engineering headquarters is proceeding satisfactorily, and the new structure is expected to be ready in 1949.

The value of contracts placed by the Department's Stores Branch last year was £1,385,970, as compared with £1,024,296 for the previous year. This increase to a large extent arose from heavy demands for engineering stores required in connection with telephone development and increased activity on the part of other Government Departments who obtain their supplies through the Stores Branch. Whilst there has been a slight improvement in the supply position, matters in this respect are still far from satisfactory, particularly so far as steel supplies are concerned. My predecessor referred last year to the general shortage of lead. I am glad to say that there was an unexpected easement during the year in the lead supply position with the result that the Department was able to obtain badly needed large quantities of heavy cable. There has been a sharp rise in the prices of all commodities whether of foreign or of local origin.

The amount to credit of Savings Bank depositors on 31st December, 1947, was £36,860,000, the highest year-end figure yet reached. In 1947, for the first time since 1929, the withdrawals exceeded the deposits. This falling off of deposits surplus is partly due to the discouragement of savings by the reduction in the rate of interest which came into operation as from 1st January, 1947; but it was, no doubt, contributed to by the fact that goods for which a pent-up demand existed became available in 1947 for the first time since the beginning of the emergency. The traditional rate of 2½ per cent. interest on all deposits has been restored, as announced in the Budget speech, from the 1st July.

The amount remaining invested in Savings Certificates at the end of 1947 (exclusive of interest) was £11,700,000. The sale of certificates in 1947, the first complete year of the present issue, was only about 60 per cent. of the sales in 1945, the last complete year of the previous issue; and in the meantime the repayments have increased by 30 per cent. This decline of saving is no doubt due to the same causes as have affected the Savings Bank.

The position of some 600 odd temporary part-time postmen recruited during the period 1940-46 and who were only appointed in a temporary capacity was reviewed during the year. All the officers concerned, save the single men and women who had not service in the Army or in any of the voluntary Defence organisations are being appointed in a quasi-permanent capacity. New ground was broken in regard to the holding of limited competitions for situations as postmen confined to ex-Defence Force personnel—Post Office service was not a requirement for eligibility.

My predecessor referred last year to the introduction of a scheme for the review and overhaul of organisation and methods of work in the Accounts Branch, also a scheme for the training of new entrants. The latter scheme is being continued with gratifying results while the organisation and methods work has been further extended. Very satisfactory progress, leading to economy has been achieved by simplifying procedure and eliminating unnecessary tasks.

In order to ensure closer co-operation between headquarters and provincial offices, conferences were held during the year with telephone supervising officers and telephonists and the results were satisfactory. A conference was also recently held with postmasters and the outcome was similarly gratifying. In conclusion I wish to express my appreciation of the excellent service rendered by the staff of all grades during the past year.

I move:—

That the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration.

I do this for the purpose simply of giving a general opportunity of criticising the policy of the Department and I do not think we are likely to put the matter to a vote. Everybody realises the importance of the Post Office. The amount it spends has gone up enormously with the growing needs and the growing work which it carries on. It spends £4,500,000 every year and it employs half of the whole Civil Service. The business increases rapidly from year to year, not merely the number of telephone calls, but the amount of money entrusted to the Post Office. It also gives service to 67 Departments of State and is credited with something over £600,000 for that work. It is a Department which has a growing responsibility. Possibly because it is one of the old Departments, it is a Department that is taken for granted. I really believe that the Department should have greater powers and that the Minister has an increased responsibility to carry out the work of his Department with much greater initiative. I was glad to hear buildings referred to. The number of buildings, some of which they have answered on, in the Estimates under the Board of Works, is 24. I was glad to know that the Hammam site will be developed and that the work planned, especially there, will be completed next year.

The position in regard to the Andrew Street Post Office is amazing. We know that the Department is in a strait-jacket so far as the Board of Works is concerned. It is not fair to either Department that such a relationship should exist. On different occasions I myself was informed that work was about to be started on the Andrew Street premises, and afterwards I was told that it would not. There is a dual control there which is very unsatisfactory. The Department of Posts and Telegraphs should therefore, have a much more complete staff of its own and so carry out a great deal of the work themselves. I do not blame the Board of Works. That, also, is an old Department which is admirable for carrying on maintenance works. It has, however, thrown on its shoulders several very large sections of constructional work throughout the country. It is hardly fair, then, to expect them to devote the time or the staff to the specialised type of architecture and engineering which is required for postal work. There are 24 of these buildings here. I am glad to note from the Minister's statement that in some cases, at least, considerable advances are being made—especially in Cork, Waterford and some other places. I notice that the Minister referred to Andrew Street and the sorting office in Pearse Street. The sorting office at Pearse Street has been a hardy annual. I am sorry that the Minister for Social Welfare has left the House before I have had an opportunity of returning the compliment he paid me every year for the last so many years with regard to Pearse Street. There is a fundamental difficulty there. A much freer hand is required in the post office for dealing with such things. The post office is a kind of nerve system of the whole State. The business community depends on it. If there is to be any real drive and initiative behind the business community it should get the most rapidly developed services. Therefore these buildings are all tremendously important and they should not be put aside. I have in mind in particular the telephone service which is an earning service and which is increasing constantly. It is a service also in respect of which the more that is done the better. Every expenditure that is made upon it under the Telephone Capital Act is going to bring in its return and bring it in rather quickly. If there is one reason more than another why this Estimate should be referred back it is because of the stopping of the scheme to provide telephones in every centre in Ireland. When the previous Government announced that we wanted to have a telephone in every house, what we had in mind was that every telephone that was put into every sub-post office in Ireland would become available as an exchange and that everybody, especially those in the rural areas, who would make a demand for a telephone would get an opportunity of having one installed. That would be of enormous advantage in the policy—which I suppose the present Government will carry on—of decentralisation and of developing rural areas. Therefore, I must enter a protest in that regard.

On the subject of arrears, I would point out that the Minister is fortunate in that he has not this year four blizzards to contend with. That was a task which confronted the staff last year and I must say that we had nothing but admiration for the way in which they carried on the work. There was then a shortage of lead, of copper, bronze and of steel, but these supplies are now gradually coming in. I do not want to make any unreasonable demands on the Minister or to pitch my speech in the very unreasonable tones in which I was attacked last year because I could not produce rabbits out of my hat. I feel, however, that arrears should be dealt with as quickly as possible and that, during the year, we should be able to get to the stage where we will be able to carry out the original telephone plan. That plan was laid down at the end of 1946 when I introduced the Telephone Capital Act, and its object was to introduce a telephone service into every sub-post office throughout the country. In that way the farming community would be able to make contacts with their markets and that would be useful for developing the rural areas in general.

I was surprised to hear of the introduction of the increased postage rates. That was signed on the 15th June. I am not blaming the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs in this respect, but I am blaming the Minister for Finance. He should have told us when he was introducing the Budget that he was going to put this extra imposition of £200,000 upon the community. The warrant was signed on the 15th June at a time when actually the Finance Act had not yet passed out of the House. It is true, of course, that it is a commercial charge and in that way such warrants actually escape the authority of the House as in control of supply. That is the old system, but I do not think it is fair for the Minister for Finance to take advantage of it so that, when we were dealing with the Budget, we actually did not know about this matter.

The Minister for Finance told you he did not know. It is not fair to attack him. He made a statement on the position and we all heard him.

He must have known at the time of the Budget that this was going on.

He made a statement, in reply to the question you are now asking.

It does not cover my criticism of the matter.

He is only interrupting for fun.

I do not mind interruptions if they are intelligent.

I will show you the question.

I know. The Minister for Finance said in the Seanad that he had omitted to mention the matter. There is an important principle involved, because one might take advantage of the comparative freedom of the Post Office in order to escape from the authority of the House as the authority over supply. The Minister for Finance promised us a reduction in the cost of living, but I would point out that this new imposition will have the effect of sending it up. One has only to glance over the increased postal rates to see that the commercial world, in particular, is seriously affected. The increase applies to circulars, post cards, samples and parcels, both inland and those going to Northern Ireland and abroad. It will all come back, of course, on the man who pays and it is inevitable that it will add to the cost of living.

That is a rather extenuated argument.

The Deputy does not mind the halfpence.

You do not cheesepare yourselves, either.

It affects people who want to send parcels to the Six Counties and those who want to send parcels to unfortunate people on the Continent, because, in future, they will have to pay increased postage on such parcels.

I was glad to note certain increases in the way of wages and payments. There is just one small class in connection with which Deputy Norton, now Minister for Social Services, used to press to have the incremental period shortened. These are the persons on salaries of over £350 a year. They get no benefit out of the flat rate increase of 11/-. These are the grade A clerks. Supposing that such a clerk marries when he is 23, at age 33 his increments would be of most value to him if the incremental period were shortened up. At ten years of age children require more boots, clothing, food and so on. The class is a comparatively small one, and I would suggest that some steps should be taken to improve the situation.

In conclusion, I would like to express my esteem and respect for the Department with which I was associated for so long. The officials were always well informed, energetic and willing to carry through any orders given to them. They were most helpful in every way in their capacity as public servants. My only hope is that there will be no further cheeseparing on the Department resulting in the holding up of work. Such delays have a bad effect on the initiative and energy of the staff. I trust that the present Minister will make sure especially that building will go ahead. If necessary, he should face up to the task of preparing plans even before the actual supplies come in. If necessary, he should engage outside architects. The Board of Works has always been rather conservative in that respect. If plans are drawn up building can be proceeded with as rapidly as possible once materials become available. With regard to the telephone development we should continue to aim at our objective of having a telephone in every home.

I want to say at the outset that I appreciate the kindness of the House on the manner in which they have treated this very important Estimate. It is a change from the way previous Estimates brought in during the last few weeks have been treated. I agree with Deputy Little that there is urgent necessity for having telephones in all rural post offices. I am sure he will appreciate our difficulties. We have applications for 7,000 telephones. We had no alternative except to meet these demands in the first instance and to concentrate our entire organisation and energy in completing the applications by the end of the year. We hope next year to concentrate on providing telephones as far as possible in out-of-the-way rural areas and, if we have sufficient equipment, on providing telephones in all the post offices in the rural areas.

As regards buildings, I agree it is necessary to prepare plans in advance and I hope with the co-operation of the Board of Works we shall be able to simplify the procedure in the future. Progress has been retarded to some extent in the past. I have some experience in connection with buildings and I see no objection to the Post Office carrying on their building schemes in the rural areas without all the red tape and delay that has been experienced in the past. That matter will be carefully considered. It is hoped that with the housing problem solved, we shall then be in a position to go ahead with our personal building schemes.

Deputy Little referred to the high cost and asked why it was not mentioned in the Budget. Certain schemes were put up to the Minister for Finance and the Government. It was not considered necessary at the time the Budget was being framed to put on these extra charges. Immediately after the Budget statement I was faced with demands for increased wages from the staff. I was faced with increased demands from Córas Iompair Éireann in order to give country people a mail service. These services cost a very considerable sum. Now the Department of Posts and Telegraphs is a commercial undertaking and it has to bring in revenue. I have been informed that the rates for papers have not been revised for a long time back. Faced with that problem we had no other alternative except to increase our rates in order to meet the exceptional demands. Had I not secured those increases I am perfectly certain that Deputy Little would have been the first to condemn the Department for not taking appropriate action.

Deputy Little raised the case also of the men on £350 a year. I agree that they must get some increase, but my first concern was to get something for the men under £350 in order to bring them up. As the House has been informed, arrangements are being made under which the men with £350 a year and over will get some increase. Their case is being considered at the moment. I can assure the House that I shall do everything I possibly can to carry on successfully the work of the Post Office and to improve the position as much as possible.

Motion—"That the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration"— by leave, withdrawn.
Vote put and agreed to.
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