It is proposed to take business as on the Order Paper, Nos. 1, 2, 4 and 8.
Order of Business.
Before the business is taken, I would be glad if the Taoiseach would inform the House of the intentions of the Government with regard to the report of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges on the statements made concerning a Deputy by the Minister for Agriculture on the 14th December, 1948.
This matter, of course, is not on the Order Paper, but I can indicate to Deputies the general view of the Government. It is not proposed to hold or to countenance the holding of a judicial inquiry. There is a very fundamental principle involved in that matter. While both my colleagues and myself take a very strong view on that subject and while we have no reason to believe that the matters referred to in the report call for any inquiry, nevertheless if Deputies opposite feel disposed to put down a motion for the appointment of a Select Committee of the House to inquire into these alleged charges, that will not be opposed. But, in accepting the motion, it must be clearly understood that there is no reflection on my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture.
I wish to direct your attention, Sir, to the statement of the Taoiseach. You will recollect that when these statements were made by the Minister for Agriculture in December last I asked your permission to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing that. You informed the House and me that you were bringing these statements to the attention of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. That you have done and the Committee has made its report. That report, however, is not being acted upon by the Government and, presumably, it is now a matter for you, Sir, to say what action you think is proper for the protection of the rights of the individual Deputy concerned.
To take action a motion must be put down on the matter. It is not for me to decide. It does not arise except on the question by the Deputy.
I put this point. In this case the character of an individual Deputy was assailed by a Minister.
We cannot discuss the matter now.
Nevertheless I am anxious to get some information as to the attitude of the Chair in the matter. The Chair is regarded as the protector of Deputies, and in this matter the Chair took the proper action by bringing the incident to the attention of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Committee has considered it, and made a recommendation to the Dáil. The Government, however, is refusing to give the Dáil an opportunity of carrying it into effect. In the circumstances, it appears to me that the matter requires the reconsideration of the Chair.
Perhaps I might crave your indulgence, Sir, to intervene at this stage. The principle involved in this matter is one affecting the privileges of each Deputy. It is a constitutional privilege. The principle involved is that no Deputy is responsible for anything he says or does in this House to any person or body other than this House. That is the principle which we stand. That is the principle which we believe is embodied in Article 15, Clause 13, of the Constitution. We are standing on the Constitution and on the rights and privileges of this House. It is very fundamental for us, and I believe for every Deputy, that we should stand on that. Taking our stand on that, and giving effect to it, we have intimated to you and to Deputies that we will not oppose the appointment of a Select Committee of this House, that being the appropriate body in our view, in accordance with the Constitution, to deal with a matter of that kind.
I submit that this is not a matter for the Government. In this matter, the rights of a Deputy were assailed. The House took, through you, the appropriate action by referring it to a Committee of the House, and the Committee of the House, having considered it, came to a decision as to the appropriate measures to be taken, namely, the establishment of a judicial tribunal. It is the Government which is now usurping the privileges of a Committee of the House and purporting to take power to decide what the House should decide for itself.
The report of the Committee should come before the House and the House would decide whether or not to accept it.
Deputy Lemass wants the Committee's report discussed before it comes to the House.
I submit that there is an obligation on the Government to provide time for the consideration of that report as soon as possible.
There is nobody interfering with the Deputy's right to put down any motion he likes.
I refuse to put down any motion. There is a report from the Committee which has to be considered by the House and the question for the House is whether they will accept the report or not.
The Deputy need not get truculent. I will consult with the Ceann Comhairle as to having this report brought in the appropriate way before the House. When that is done, Deputies can take any action they like.
There is nothing to prevent a Deputy putting down a motion that the decision of that Committee be accepted.
I want again to point out that this attack on the character of a Deputy took place in December. I asked your permission, Sir, then, because of the pending adjournment of the Dáil, to move for an immediate discussion. Because of your action, Sir, I did not press that demand. Any further delay in this matter is a denial of the rights of Deputies. I submit that there is an obligation on the Government to provide time forthwith for the consideration of this report of the Committee.
May I point out, in view of the ridiculous statement of Deputy Lemass, that this report was only circulated this morning? I have given the decision of the Government on it at the earliest possible moment. What is the Deputy talking about? He ought to have some regard for decency.
If the decision of the Government is that I can put down a motion, I refuse to do it.
The Government have decided nothing except what I have indicated to the Chair. I have indicated that I will consult with the Chair as to what is the appropriate thing to do.
I am not concerned about my rights as a private member. I want to know can the recommendation of this Committee be considered by this House, without any private Deputy having to take the step of putting down a motion. That is the important point. There is the Committee's report and that report must come before the House. I suggest that it should come before the House on the initiative of the Government and not of a private Deputy.
If the Deputy will listen and not be truculent or irrelevant, I have already stated that I will consult with the Ceann Comhairle as to the appropriate step for the Government to take to bring that before the House. Is not that sufficient for the Deputy, or does he want to make irrelevant speeches?
I am concerned about the delay.
What delay?
This Deputy was slandered by your Minister for Agriculture last December and has been denied the right of redress since.
The Deputy slandered me in this House and he has never yet withdrawn it.
As a Deputy, I submit that the business of the House cannot be just conducted across the floor between the Taoiseach and an Opposition Deputy. This is an important matter affecting the privileges of Deputies. The incident that gave rise to this whole business occurred in this House. I want to know, because I cannot find it anywhere, by what right this matter was referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. This incident occurred in this House and I say that we as Deputies should have the right to say whether or not it should go to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I take the view that in referring that matter to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges——
I referred it to the Committee. I am not on trial and I will listen to no more allegations.
This is a matter affecting me as an individual Deputy.
The Deputy was not concerned.
There is no authority for the matter to be referred to the Committee.
If the Deputy desires to impeach the Chair, he will have to put down a motion.
I am asking for information. I am asking what authority has been given to the Chair to refer a matter of this kind to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Because the Chair is the sole judge of order and of how best to deal with any question that arises.
I submit with respect, Sir, that you ought to consider that matter carefully as no such right is vested in the Chairman of this House.
That is irrelevancy.
Look who is talking.
That is irrelevant to this matter.
You should have been silent for the last 20 minutes if that is irrelevant.
No. 8 on the Order Paper will be taken until 10 o'clock and if it should be finished sooner——
That is so improbable that we need not discuss it.
We will discuss it not later than 10 o'clock.