Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Mar 1949

Vol. 114 No. 7

Private Deputies' Business. - Adjournment Debate—Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Housing.

Dr. Brennan

When the Minister gave his reply the other day to my question on this subject, he obviously got some support from certain members of the House, judging by the exclamations of "hear, hear", which were quite audible. I want to assure the House that the reason for putting that question on the Order Paper was that in the constituency for which I am Deputy there exists a condition of affairs such as would be scarcely credible in a Christian society. It was in response to appeals of several of my constituents that that question was put down. Since the housing council came into existence, in the Borough of Dun Laoghaire and in the Rathdown area, apart from the initiative of the Dun Laoghaire Borough council, little progress has been made. True, in the Ballyboden area, a partial, but still inadequate, effort has been made to alleviate the hardships of the people but, nevertheless, a vast area in that constituency remains untouched. However congested space in Dun Laoghaire may be, there is no excuse for failing to develop the hinterland and literally choke it with houses. The people in this large constituency are undergoing hardships of which I am sure the housing council have no knowledge. If they had, they would pay some attention to the conditions which prevail there—rat-infested houses, vermin-infested houses, disease-infested houses, sewage-infested houses —not in a few cases but in hundreds of cases in this Christian State of Ireland.

I think the housing council have done nothing to alleviate the needs of the people suffering these hardships in places like Newtown Park, Dalkey, Stillorgan, Windy Arbour, Stepaside. But we hear of plans. Since we came to this House we have been hearing of nothing but plans. I should like to know whether the Minister is satisfied that the housing council have done what they should. Has any attempt been made to recruit direct labour? There are many excuses regarding the scarcity of skilled labour. Undoubtedly in some cases there is a scarcity of skilled labour but have the housing council made any approach to the trade unions and asked for their co-operation? Have they guaranteed the workers constant work, and particularly have they discussed with the trade unions the question of bringing back to the country the skilled tradesmen who have emigrated, undertaking to keep them in constant employment? If the housing council have not done that I suggest that they have sadly failed in their duty.

If that interchange of views with the trade unions took place sufficient tradesmen could be supplied and, even if not, is there anything to prevent the coincidental adoption of the excellent pre-cast houses which have recently been patented in this country by Mr. Fitzpatrick? These are not merely prefabricated houses intended to last for a few years. Their durability extends to a couple of hundred years. They could be built by unskilled labourers for the greater part. I wonder whether an approach has been made to the problem by inquiring into the advisability of erecting houses of this type. Again, if the housing council have not done so, I suggest they have failed in their duty.

One of the things that I am sure will face the housing council is the existence of "rings". In these houses of which I have spoken, these prefabricated houses of Mr. Fitzpatrick, I saw locks which were bought at 3/6 less than the figure at which they could be procured in Dublin. These locks were not only locks in the ordinary sense. They were double locks. I saw their doors, which were considerably cheaper than those which could be bought in Dublin. I saw their baths, which were pounds cheaper than similar articles in Dublin. I am certain that the existence of such impediments, increasing the cost of the erection of houses, must be a serious barrier to the development of the aims which the housing council should have in view. Not only is there a "ring" in housing equipment, but there is also a "ring" in the actual building of houses. It is a strange thing that a four-roomed labourer's cottage can be built in County Meath for £725 and five or six miles away in County Dublin the same cottage will cost between £1,100 and £1,200. I suggest that the existence of such a state of affairs should not be tolerated.

If the housing council is to have powers, I suggest that it should see that this extraordinary discrepancy between the cost of various articles which can be procured and the cost of erecting the houses should be investigated seriously. If this investigation is carried out I am perfectly certain that the number of houses could be considerably increased. As I said at the beginning, I am quite certain in my own mind that the housing council have done very little in the part of the County of Dublin which I have the honour to represent. I suggest to the Minister that he should decentralise that administration and that he should set up in the Borough of Dun Laoghaire a body of men who know local conditions and who would have power to develop housing in that area. I am perfectly certain, too, that the greatest barrier the housing council may have to face, and probably does face, is the existence of that incomparable monster, red tape. I am perfectly certain that it is probably the greatest barrier to the activities of the housing council, and I suggest to the Minister that he should abolish that form of government. He should insist that no considerations of red tape will interfere with the provision of houses for those who need them.

I should like to read a letter from amongst the hundreds which I have got concerning conditions which prevail in Dublin.

"I am sending you on particulars of my room. It is a top back room over a yard and lavatories and in the warm weather the smell and flies that come up through the window are terrible. Also it is damp and I cannot put anything against the walls for long as it becomes mouldy. As for the rats, my wife's nerves are not worth anything with them. At first she discovered a dead one in a clothes drawer when cleaning it out. Another morning she went to the baby's cot and there was one under the blankets alive. I have plastered and cemented the holes several times but they come through again. My wife had three good coats, a frock and a hat eaten by them, not to mention the kiddies' clothes. The fire-grate is very bad; the fire brigade man said I was not to light a fire and the owner is supposed to repair it. Anyway, when we do light the fire at times it blows out and would choke you so it has to be put out.

We have two boys, one two and a half years and the other four years of age. The youngest sweats an awful lot at night when asleep. My wife, being worried, brought him to the clinic and the doctor sent him for an X-ray. They cannot get out for a walk except when my wife can bring them as, being so young, they cannot go out on their own. When she does bring them out the oldest complains of pains in his legs and of being tired. I am sure you understand."

I do understand. That child is probably suffering from tuberculosis due to overcrowding. I suggest that if this were a totalitarian State the housing question would have been solved in the last 12 months. I suggest, too, that the housing council are sowing seeds of social unrest by failing to provide houses for those who need them. I want to assure the Minister that it is from no other desire than to help that these matters have been so raised. I hope that he will break the shackles which hold him and his council and that a practical step will be taken soon to relieve this problem and to give our long suffering citizens at least some place on which they can lay their heads.

Mr. S. Brady

I am very anxious to hear the Minister and, therefore, I shall only take a minute or two. I should like to say at the outset that I do not agree with the opinion that the housing council has no knowledge of this problem or that they have neglected their duty. When the Minister set up this council I expressed the view that he could not have got a better, a more conscientious or a more capable officer for that council than Mr. O'Mahoney. I do not think anyone appreciates the problem more than Mr. O'Mahoney but now that the question is raised I think it would be wise if the Minister would give a very detailed statement on the whole subject.

We, on the Dun Laoghaire Borough Corporation, understand what the problem is and we realise that we still have houses as appalling as described by Deputy Brennan. It is in the interest of those people who are still without proper houses and who believe that something more could be done in the way of speeding up the houses that the Minister should be given an opportunity to explain as fully as possible what the problem in Dun Laoghaire is.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Murphy)

I acknowledge very freely the sincerity and zeal which Deputy Dr. Brennan has brought to bear on this question. It is entirely in line with his approach to social questions and, indeed, to any other questions to which he has addressed himself when a member of this House. If I do not admit the conclusions that he has arrived at it in no way detracts from my full understanding of the spirit in which he has approached this problem.

I want to submit to the House details showing that while the position is one which requires to be improved as much as possible, the existing conditions give considerable hope of very good results in a reasonably short time. The Deputy's question relates to two areas, one the borough area of Dun Laoghaire and the other that portion of the County Dublin area known as the Rathdown area.

Perhaps the up-to-date information in both areas would help to clear up any misconceptions that may exist about inactivity there. The Dun Laoghaire Borough Council, which, of course, is the housing authority, because the housing council is an advisory body, have ascertained the needs of the borough to be 1,000 houses. Since March, 1947, 83 houses have been completed. At the moment, there are in course of construction in the borough 130 houses; and houses about to be commenced—these would be houses, I presume, in the hands of the contractors but not yet started—24. Development work is in progress by direct labour in the case of 20 houses, and plans approved, bills of quantities being prepared or tenders accepted for the development of part of the site in the case of 367 houses. The figures I have given, apart from the completed houses —a comparatively small number— represent 550 additional houses, and the housing needs of the borough, as I have said, are estimated at 1,000 houses.

My information is that the Rathdown area comprises about one-third of the area of South County Dublin, stretching from Milltown to Shankill, adjoining the Borough of Dun Laoghaire, and I want to tell the House what the Dublin County Council have been doing in that area. They have in progress, tenders accepted, tenders about to be invited or sites being acquired, proposals in respect of 183 houses. I am not quite clear, because the survey that was recently decided on is not yet completed, as to the actual housing requirements of the area, but the result of the survey of sites which is being carried on by the sites committee will be available very shortly.

It will be of interest to Deputies to know that over 500 cottages are in course of construction in the rural areas in County Dublin at present. They include, of course, groups of cottages close by non-municipal towns. It is confidently expected that that number will be increased to 1,000 during the course of the present year. Sites have been selected for immediate acquisition in County Dublin to the number of about 1,000, and preliminary steps are being taken in connection with 1,500 more. The total housing needs of the county are estimated at 3,000 houses, and between the 500 cottages under construction at the moment and the other proposals in the various stages of development, the entire requirements of County Dublin, as estimated to date, are being provided for.

Unfortunately, in housing schemes, there has to be a programme and there have to be plans, not alone in the technical sense, but in the administrative sense, and sometimes there are delays which are unavoidable, but which, in the circumstances of terrible urgency which I acknowledge freely exist, are depressing and irritating. Unfortunately, the acquisition of land, the acceptance of tenders and the various steps that have to be taken in accordance with the law as laid down in the Housing Acts sometimes involves a certain amount of delay, which, in the absence of any change in the law, cannot be shortened. Short of that, short of the statutory requirements, so far as we in the Local Government Department are concerned, and so far as the local authorities in the County and City of Dublin are concerned, there is a combined and, on the whole, very satisfactory effort to shorten delays as much as possible, and consequently there are consultations on the spot between the officers of the local authorities and the officers of the Department with a view to getting immediate results.

The housing council appointed to act with the housing director, in co-operation with the local authorities—not in any position of control of the local authorities but in co-operation with them—in the city and county of Dublin assumed very formidable responsibility and a very heavy and depressing task. I think they have applied themselves to that work very diligently and with considerable success. The progress which has been made has been made in face of enormous difficulties. It has been made at a time when housing costs have not only increased, as Deputy Brennan said, but in many cases have quadrupled themselves since the pre-war period. They have attempted to supplement to a very considerable extent the very attenuated skilled labour force. No opportunity has been missed by me or by representatives of the local authorities, either in this House or outside it, to invite the skilled workers who are still outside this country and engaged on the building of houses in Great Britain to come back here and help us with this housing drive. We know how valuable their services are and we shall be very glad to have them here. Over and over again, it has been made clear beyond question that guaranteed employment not alone for a considerable period but for many years to come is certain to them.

It has been suggested that other steps might be taken to help in that direction. Suggestions have been made that a certain number of the houses to be erected might be reserved for skilled workers, if they could be attracted to come back and live in this country and take their part in the work. That suggestion, with others, is under consideration at the moment, and I want to avail of this opportunity to make again the strongest plea that I can for the addition of every skilled worker who can be obtained to the rather thin labour force we still have in this city and county. Any changes we may make administratively or any additions we may make to advisory authorities to help us in this work will, all the time, so far as results are concerned be governed by the size of our labour force, because in the end that is the main difficulty we have to meet, in addition to difficulties of costs.

We have been giving the question of costs very continuous consideration. We have decided to explore the possibility of getting the combined purchasing section of the Department to take a hand in this matter of the examination of costs, and, if necessary, to help to provide an organisation with a view to mitigating and reducing costs generally as much as possible. I want to assure the Deputy that we would be very pleased if Mr. Fitzpatrick to whom one of his questions related last week would put forward any proposals he has in mind as to how we could utilise his services or any plans he has in mind for the purposes of this drive of ours. I understand that the house which Mr. Fitzpatrick erected was inspected and that proposals by him to the local authority are awaited and we should be glad, if he has any proposals to put forward to the local authority as to how he could help us, to have these proposals examined and considered as rapidly as possible. Any suggestions of that kind that we get are very acceptable and are utilised so far as possible.

With regard to the proposed provision of prefabricated houses, 50 tenders are under consideration at the moment. I should say that, so far as my relations with the trade unions are concerned, some officials of the trade unions who are members of the housing council and some of whom I have met otherwise expressed their willingness to help in every way possible. They have taken a very big part in helping us to supplement the skilled labour force by diverting as many of their members as possible to local authority housing and advertising in the Press instructions to their members to apply themselves to the work of local authority housing as much as possible. On the whole, the position, while far from satisfactory in Dublin or anywhere else, shows signs of very rapid improvement, and I have confidence in both the local authorities in the City of Dublin and the Borough of Dun Laoghaire continuing to help in the good work. May I assure Deputy Brennan that any further suggestions he has to make in connection with this matter will be received by me in a very sympathetic spirit, realising as I do his sincere and zealous approach to this problem?

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday 10th March, 1949.