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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Mar 1949

Vol. 114 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Bill, 1949—Second Stage.

As Deputies have probably seen, this is a very, very short Bill. It is really an enabling Bill to amend the Act so as to empower the Minister to include within the Army pensions scheme the chaplains who serve with the Army. The approval of the Bill is the first step and the Bill will be implemented by an alteration in the scheme itself. I do not suppose there will be any objection to the Bill.

Mr. de Valera

Would the Minister be able to indicate to the House the exact position of chaplains in the Army at the present time. Are they on for a certain period of time and is it a very short period? The reason I ask is that the question of pensions is only associated with them now. I have not got the information myself. Perhaps the Minister could give it to us.

The position of chaplains is unchanged. It is the position with which the Deputy was familiar. A chaplain is there, as it were, from month to month or from year to year. By arrangement with the bishop the chaplain can be recalled at any time to parochial duties. The scheme, as it is, only provides for pensions after a minimum of 20 years' service. Under the new Bill it is intended to provide pensions after a minimum number of years' service which will be stated in the scheme.

I take it this arises now as a matter of urgency in one particular case only. I think it has been announced within the last few days that the head chaplain has retired and been appointed parish priest in Skerries. I take it this Bill is for the purpose of covering that case at the moment in addition to——

That is not so. This was decided on before any of us knew the head chaplain was leaving.

It will have general application as far as the chaplains are concerned.

To those who will have the minimum qualifying service.

There is one suggestion I would like to make to the Minister. The expression used in this Act is "chaplaincy service". I think that is an uncouth expression—"chaplaincy service".

A Deputy

This is Second Reading.

I know it is Second Reading but possibly the Minister wants to get all stages to-night. I would ask the Minister to reconsider that. It is a shocking phrase to use in regard to chaplains. Would the Minister consider amending it?

If you are going to give me the Bill to-night, I do not see how I could. I think the Deputy knows it is not the Minister's phrase. It is a phrase designed to cover the Service that has been selected by the draftsman.

I just cannot suggest an alternative phrase myself because I have not the Principal Act in front of me, but I should not like, personally, to see that phrase written into our legislation.

Question put and agreed to.

When will the Committee Stage be taken?

I should like to have it now, with the permission of the House.

Would the Minister not leave it over to have this phrase examined?

Do not press me on that. I would have to take it up with the Parliamentary draftsman and, in his judgment, that is the most suitable phrase. The Deputy will be recorded as disliking it.

I hope somebody will take it up in the Seanad.

Agreed to take the remaining stages now.

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