Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Apr 1949

Vol. 115 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 54—Gaeltacht Services.

Minister for Lands (Mr. Blowick)

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £30,707 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1950, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Gaeltacht Services, including Housing Grants and the purchase and sale of Homespuns.

The main Estimate for Gaeltacht Services this year has been prepared without provision for expenditure which will arise consequent on the legislation enacted by the Housing (Gaeltacht) (Amendment) Act, 1949. It should be appreciated, therefore, that the provision in the main Estimate will be increased by the amount being provided in that respect in a Supplementary Estimate. The main Estimate at £110,707 shows a decrease of £20,023, £2,760 of which relates to the insertion for comparison purposes in last year's figures of a sum in respect of "Increases in Remuneration" which was not, in fact, required. If this £2,760 be ignored the decrease in the Estimate would appear as £17,263 and all but £1,963 of that amount would be offset by the amount being provided in a Supplementary Estimate. Except where otherwise indicated, my remarks from now on will deal with the main Estimate.

The total amount estimated for expenditure is £93,327 less than the comparative figure for last year, while the estimated receipts are £73,304 less. If payments made directly out of receipts from the sales of rural industry products are taken into account it will be seen that a total expenditure of £410,718 is provided for and that gross receipts amounting to £330,011 are hoped for.

The activities of the Gaeltacht Services Division cover rural industries, marine industries and Gaeltacht housing as well as certain miscellaneous services. The Gaeltacht Services Vote provides for the maintenance of these activities—the D sub-heads of the Vote providing for the rural industries, the E sub-heads for the marine industries, the H sub-heads for Gaeltacht housing and the G sub-head for the miscellaneous services. Of the other sub-heads of the Vote, sub-heads A, B and C provide for the expenses of administration and sub-head F for the expenses of Gaeltarra Éireann—the Central Marketing Depot. Receipts which in the main represent the proceeds of the sale of the products of the various industries are dealt with under sub-head I.

The rural industries include spinning and dyeing of woollen yarns, hand-weaving of millspun yarns, the purchase and sale of homespuns, the manufacture of knitwear, rugs, embroidery, leather gloves and toys.

The spinning and dyeing industry is carried on at Kilcar, County Donegal. where a factory has been established and is being equipped with various carding, spinning, dyeing and finishing machinery. Expediture on this machinery is provided for under sub-head D (5), which also covers requirements for the knitwear industry. The estimate for expenditure at £13,300 is £8,700 less than the provision last year and this decrease is largely due to the fact that it is now necessary to provide only for the balance of the machinery to be installed and current requirements.

The manufacturing materials, mainly wool and yarns, necessary for the carrying-on of the spinning and knitting industries and for the manufacture of rugs, gloves and embroidery are purchased with money provided under sub-heads D (6) and D (9) of the Vote. The amounts estimated for expenditure during the current year are: D (6), £70,886, and D (9) (1), £25,625, as against £93,450 and £41,325, respectively, provided for expenditure last year—a total reduction of £38,264. Considerable stocks of both wool and yarns are on hands and accordingly it will not be necessary to purchase as heavily this year. Yarns previously purchased are now being provided by the Department from wool purchased, and this factor also has the effect of reducing requirements for materials.

Sub-head D (10) provides for the purchase and sale of homespuns. The amount provided for expenditure this year is £11,500 as compared with £49,600 for last year, but it must be understood that last year's provision was practically untouched. The market here for homespuns has virtually disappeared of late but every effort is being made to develop new markets. The Department now has very large stocks on hands and further large-scale purchases cannot be undertaken while these stocks remain unsold. A limited provision for purchases has, however, been made and, if the Department succeeds in making substantial sales out of present stocks, the proceeds will facilitate the making of further purchases if such course is considered advisable.

The toy-making industry is carried on in four centres—in Crolly, County Donegal, and Elly Bay, County Mayo, where dolls and soft toys are manufactured; in Spiddal, County Galway, where leaden models are manufactured; and in Casla, County Galway, where a factory has recently been equipped for the manufacture of composition articles, such as dolls' heads and hard body parts for supplying the toy factories in Crolly and Elly Bay. The factories at Crolly, Elly Bay and Casla are maintained by money provided under sub-head D (8) of the Vote. The amount estimated for expenditure this year is £40,830 as against £50,620 for last year—a reduction of £9,790—which is largely due to the fact that we shall now be manufacturing our own composition articles from raw materials instead of importing them—as we had to before the establishment of the Casla factory last February. The reduction is also partly due to a reduction in our requirements of toy-making machinery on which we propose to expend £1,450 this year as against the £4,040 provided last year.

I am glad to be able to report that the position of this toy-making industry continues to be satisfactory in spite of difficult trading conditions.

The factory in Spiddal, County Galway, where the leaden models are being manufactured, is maintained by money provided under sub-head D (12). The amount estimated for expenditure during the current year under this sub-head is £9,900 as against £15,100 last year—a reduction of £5,200. This industry is going through a difficult period and provision for expenditure has been made on the basis of last year's transactions.

Certain general expenses—mainly transport and fuel—proper to all the rural industries are paid for out of sub-head D (7) of the Vote. This year's Estimate shows an increase of £695 over the amount provided last year due mainly to increased provision for freight and packing materials.

Sub-head D (1) provides for payment of the wages of the technical staffs of the various rural industries, such as the skilled tradesmen in the factories and the manageresses of the various knitting and embroidery centres. These wages have almost all been substantially increased last year and the current year's Estimate shows an increase of £1,051. Certain wages in connection with the rural industries are also paid out of sub-head D (2), which shows an increase of £40; D (3), which shows an increase of £28; D (9) (5) (spinning industry), which shows an increase of £505; D (10) (4) (homespuns), which shows a decrease of £400; D (11) (2) (dyeing industry), which shows an increase of £492; and D (12) (2) (leaden models), which shows no change from last year's figure.

However, by far the greater number of the workers employed in the rural industries are paid directly out of receipts and it will be seen from sub-head I (1) (a) that the amount estimated for payment of workers wages in this way during the current year is £94,850. This is £9,650 less than the amount estimated last year, but events proved that last year's Estimate was too great.

The marine products industries are at present confined to the purchase and sale of seaweeds. The participation of the Department in the food carrageen industry, which is carried on by some private firms, has been discontinued and the relevant sub-head E (4) has been omitted from this year's Estimate. Last year a sum of £620 was provided but no expenditure was incurred.

Money for the purchase of seaweeds is provided under sub-head E (3) of the Vote. The total provision for the current year is £34,350, as against a sum of £36,500 provided last year—a reduction of £2,150. The decrease in the provision under E (3) (1) is due to a much more conservative estimate from one of our customers as to requirements. The kelp industry is virtually finished and only a token sum of £50 has been provided for its purchase.

Sub-head F (2) provides for advertising and publicity and it will be observed that it is proposed to increase expenditure on this activity from £2,000, as provided last year, to £7,000 as estimated for the current year. Marketing conditions are extremely difficult at present and efforts to improve sales will be made by intensifying publicity at home and abroad.

The I sub-head provides for gross receipts during the year of £330,011, as compared with last year's estimate of £414,165. The decrease relates in the main to receipts from sales of products of the rural industries, but trading conditions last year being far from favourable the receipts, which had been estimated for at £375,400, were not realised. A more conservative estimate of receipts from the rural industries has therefore been adopted for the current year in the sum of £293,700. It is estimated that £104,850 will fall to be met out of these receipts for workers' wages and agents' commission and on that basis the net receipts would amount to £188,850. The net receipts to be accounted for, however, are shown as £150,850 due to an arrangement by which net receipts over and above that sum would be accounted for as Exchequer Extra Receipts rather than as Appropriations-in-Aid.

The receipts provided for from the sale of seaweeds are £1,513 less than those provided for in last year's Estimate, but in this respect it will be observed that the provision under sub-head E (3) for expenditure shows a somewhat similar decrease. The other headings under which receipts will be accounted for require no special explanation.

The H sub-heads of the Vote provide for expenditure in respect of the salaries and travelling and other expenses of the outdoor staff engaged on Gaeltacht housing sub-heads H (1) and H (2); the payment of grants under the Housing (Gaeltacht) Acts (sub-head H (3)); and the maintenance and repair of certain teachers' residences in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht (sub-head H (4)). The main Estimate shows a decrease in the provision in these respects of £2,750 the whole of which may be stated to relate to the provision for housing grants under sub-head H (3). Last year the provision made was £4,000 but the actual expenditure was far less than that. The provision now made in the main Estimate is lower than the amount spent last year but, for all practical purposes, it may be regarded as provision for only a small portion of the current year pending the enactment of amending legislation to increase the amount of the grants and the adoption of a Supplementary Estimate for expenditure under the amending legislation. The amending legislation has now been enacted and as stated in my opening remarks a Supplementary Estimate is being prepared which will increase the amount required by Gaeltacht Services by £15,300.

This Supplementary Estimate will provide for an additional £600 under sub-head A of the Vote for salaries and wages of the administrative staff; an additional £3,260 under sub-head H (1) for the salaries and wages of the outdoor housing staff; an additional £1,840 under sub-head H (2) for travelling and miscellaneous expenses of that outdoor staff; and an additional £9,600, making £10,850 in all, under sub-head H (3) in respect of the payment of grants under the Housing (Gaeltacht) Acts, 1929 to 1949. In all the circumstances it is thought that the provision of £10,850 under sub-head H (3) will be sufficient to meet claims falling to be made under the amended Acts during the first year of operation.

The year just finished has been the most difficult trading year experienced during the post-war period but strenuous and sustained efforts are being made to develop new markets for the Gaeltacht Services products and there are indications that these efforts will meet with success in the near future.

Cormac Ó Breisleáin

Tá an Vóta seo faoi choinne Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta an-tábhachtach agus tairbheach do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus leoga sé gnoithe gach duine sa tír seo a chuireann suim sa Ghaeltacht, sa Ghaeilge agus i lucht na Gaeltachta a chion féin a dhéanamh.

An t-airgead atá muid ag brath a vótáil anseo inniu do Sheirbhísí na Gaeltachta bainfear feidhm as le saol na ndaoine sa Ghaeltacht a dhéanamh níos sócamhlaí, an t-aon dream amháin sa tír a choinnigh ár dteanga as ár nósanna beo nuair a bhí an chuid eile den tír ag aithris ar an Ghall. Rinne siad seo nuair nach raibh deontais ná tárrtháil le fáil acu, agus nuair nach raibh cleachtadh acu ar dhadaidh ach ar anró, ar chruatan as ar imirce. Mar sin de, sé dualgas gach Rialtas sa tír seo gach cuidiú a thabhairt don Ghaeltacht nó má leanann an imirce, ní bheidh Gaeilge ná Gaeltacht againn roimh i bhfad. Faoi láthair féin, níl i nGaeltacht Thír Chonaill ach sean-daoine agus páistí scoile agus tá fhios againn uilig nach bhfuil ach leigheas amháin ar an scéal sin, sé sin, caoi a thabhairt d'aos óg na Gaeltachta a mbeatha a bhaint amach sa bhaile. Acht tá eagla mhór orm nach dtugann an Vóta beag scallta seo mórán misnigh dhúinn sa Ghaeltacht.

In the Book of Estimates now before the Dáil there are very many cuts but, in my opinion, the reduction of £20,000 in the Vote for Gaeltacht Services is certainly the most unkindest cut of all. The Estimate deals with a very poor, uneconomic area, an area which, in the opinion of anyone who has regard for the language and the ancient culture of our people, should deserve a lot more from the Government. The Minister is aware that he has been placed in charge of an area where our native language is still the every-day speech of the people and where the ancient culture and habits of our people still survive under very uneconomic circumstances and in spite of great odds. Life in the Gaeltacht and in the congested areas generally is a very hard, grim struggle for the people, and unless the Government come to their assistance by way of employment schemes, grants towards the small native industries, and the securing of markets for the industries that have grown up in these areas, life will continue to be very hard, if not impossible for the people. The small holdings of the Gaeltacht and congested areas, with a poor law valuation of around 30/-, cannot, even under the most favourable conditions, provide a livelihood for the people and it would be very difficult for them to survive without the assistance which I have mentioned. I move that the Vote be referred back for reconsideration. It must be evident to people from the cities and towns who have visited the Gaeltacht areas of Donegal, Mayo, Kerry and Galway from time to time that the people living on the poor patches of land that pass for farms in those areas cannot hope to benefit from the larger schemes of development promoted in this State. The Minister for Lands should take that important point into consideration when presenting his Estimate to the Dáil. Now, without trying to score any political points, I would like to point out to the Minister that in Donegal, which is one of the largest Gaeltachts in Ireland, we have the largest figure of unemployment of any county in Ireland. With that we have, unfortunately, the biggest exodus of emigrants that we have had in County Donegal for the last 100 years. If that exodus is allowed to continue, then, unless the Government step in and do something for the people, it means the end for the Gaeltacht and for the people of the Gaeltacht as we know them.

Everybody will agree that the Minister's task is not an easy one. Those of us who know the difficulties that confront him in dealing with this age-old legacy of misrule, will agree that he has a very hard task in front of him. He has the sympathy of all the people who hold the Gaeltacht very dear. I would point out to him that his administration will be judged by what he is doing, and by what he has done, for the people of those uneconomic areas. The large reduction of £20,000 in this Vote is a severe blow to a helpless area. The small native industries have not escaped the axe. They have been cut. For instance, the toy industry is cut by almost £10,000, the spinning industry is down by £15,000; the homespun industry, one of the basic industries in the Gaeltacht and congested areas, is cut by £38,000, and the Gaeltacht Housing Vote by £2,750.

Mr. Blowick

The Deputy, I am sure, realises that as regards the homespun industry we have a huge pile of homespuns which we have failed to dispose of. That goes back to the days before this Government took office.

Mr. Breslin

I think it is under this Government——

Mr. Blowick

No.

Mr. Breslin

——that an Order was made that the sending of homespuns by parcel post to England was stopped. That was done under the agreement with England made about six or nine months ago.

Mr. Blowick

England could stop it at any moment and would.

Mr. Breslin

As far as Donegal is concerned, I would point out to the Minister that we have already suffered very severely as far as these cuts are concerned. The road grant, which meant a lot to Donegal, was, as we pointed out some weeks ago, cut by £71,000. The Minister for Agriculture informed us some time ago that he was cutting the tomato glass-house scheme by £64,000. These are not all the cuts, but each one of them has had a very severe effect on helpless, uneconomic areas. All these reductions add up to one thing—more unemployment and more emigration. As far as the seaboard areas of this country are concerned the position is very acute and the people are going with a vengeance. Unless something can be done, and done quickly, it will mean the end of the Gaeltacht, and the end of life in the Gaeltacht as we in this House know it.

I would suggest to the Minister that he should ask the Commission on Emigration which has been sitting in this city for a considerable time to examine the problem, and examine it very quickly, and further, to issue a report as to what should be done with regard to the special problems that obtain in the Gaeltacht areas. We realise that the problems and difficulties of the Gaeltacht are totally different from those that obtain in the cities and the towns. The Gaeltacht areas, which have been called "the wards of the Irish nation," certainly deserve some consideration from a native Government. I would strongly urge on the Minister the necessity of throwing the economy axe overboard when he comes to deal with the special problems of the people in the Gaeltacht areas. Of all the victims selected by the Minister for Finance, when he was wielding the economy axe, I think that none has been dealt a deeper blow than the people of these helpless areas. The total savings made represent a small item in the expenditure of the State, but small as they may look in that way, they mean a big thing as far as the Gaeltacht is concerned. They are a matter of life and death. The cuts that I have mentioned—and I have not mentioned them all—spell the difference between hope and despair, and between the prospect of a frugal living at home and emigration.

I feel that the small amount in this Vote does not give any hope whatever to the people in the Gaeltacht areas. The outflow of these young people that I have mentioned is continuing day after day and week after week. At the moment, we in Donegal have very few young people at home. Donegal to-day, at least the Gaeltacht and congested part of it, is populated by old people and school-children who cannot get away. The position is a grim one and a very serious one. I would ask the Minister, who should have a full knowledge of the life and of the way of living in the Gaeltacht area, to come to the assistance of the people there with something better than this Estimate which he is now presenting to the House.

Micheál Óg Mac Pháidín

A Chinn Chomhairle: Ba ghnáthach liom beagán a rá gach bliain ar an mheastachán seo agus ní thig liom bheith i mo thost an iarraidh seo. Ó tháinig mé isteach anseo chuir mé suim speisialta i gcúrsaí na Gaeltachta agus i slí bheatha na ndaoine sna ceantair bhochta sin. Níorbh ionadh ar bith sin nó rugadh agus tógadh mé ina measc.

Tá sé seal maith anois—níos mó ná fiche bliain—ó cuireadh Coimisiún na Gaeltachta ar bun agus ó foilsíodh moltaí an Choimisiún sin. Is iomaí focal a canadh ar an Ghaeltacht ó shoin agus is iomaí aiste a scríobhadh air. Gan aon amhras rinne obair an Choimisíun sin an cás a chur roimh an tír ar chaoi go mb'éigin do gach Rialtas ó shoin tárrtháil a thabhairt ar an Ghaeltacht. Acht i ndiaidh a gcuid oibre go léir, agus is iomaí punt a caitheadh sa Ghaeltacht, ní thig linn a rá go bhfuil biseach mór air i dtaca le hollmhaitheas nó saibhreas an tsaoil seo. Is cinnte go bhfuil saol níos fearr ag na daoine, saol níos sócúlaí acu ná bhí ag a sinsear. Gidh go bhfuil líon na ndaoine níos lú, tá slí bheatha níos fearr acu. Sé an chéad bhiseach a tháinig orthu: tithe úra a thógáil dóibh. Roimhe seo bhí na daoine bochta seo ina gcónaí i dtithe beaga mí-fholláine, fuar, tais, gan díon, gan téagar agus ar bheagán solais. Níorbh ionadh aicídeacha, an eithinn agus an fiabhras, a bheith coiteann agus tinneas i ngach muirín. D'athraigh na tithe úra an scéal sin uilig. Thug siad saol úr agus sláinte do na daoine agus croí agus misneach le slí bheatha a bhaint amach. Tá fhios agam gurb iad na sean-tithe gránna seo a thamhnaigh mórán den aos óg imeacht as an Ghaeltacht. Is maith liom go bhfuil an tAire ag dul ar aghaidh leis an obair seo—tógáil tuilleadh tithe ar fud na Gaeltachta. Tá an tAire fial mór-chroíoch agus níos fiúntaí ná na hAirí a chuaigh roimhe mar chímid go bhfuil deontaisí ó chéad go leith go trí chead leagtha amach aige do dhuine ar bith a thógas teach cónaí dó féin sa Ghaeltacht. Tá súil agam go dtabh-arfaidh fir phoiblí sa Ghaeltacht agus sagairt agus oidí scoile comhairle agus treoir do na daoine an uile thairbhe a bhaint as scéim na dtithe seo. Tá an Rialtas ag déanamh a sciar féin den obair. Déanaimis sinne ár gcuid féin.

Mhol Coimisiún na Gaeltachta tionscail a chur ar bun sa Ghaeltacht agus feabhas a chur ar na sean-tionscail a bhí ag na daoine. Chonaic siad nach dtiocfadh leis na daoine a bheith beo ar na spleoiteáin bheaga talaimh a bhí acu gan tionscal éigin le cur leo.

B'iad na sean-tionscail a bhí acu ariamh anall—obair na holla, sníomhnóireacht, fíodóireacht, bróidneireacht, lása agus cniotáil. Ansin mar bhí mór-chuid den Ghaeltacht ar imeall na mara thiar lean Gaeil chois cladaigh den iascaireacht. Níl cúram na hiascaireachta ar an Roinn seo gidh go sílim féin gur cóir é bheith ar aon líne leis na tionscail eile mar bhí sé faoi shean-Bhord na gCeantar Cúng. Má deirim seo anois tá mé cinnte nach ndéanfaidh an tAire atá os cionn na hiascaireachta anois aon neamart i ngnótha iascairí na Gaeltachta. Tá muinín láidir acu as Séumas Ó Díolúin.

Anois, i dtaca leis na tionscail bhaile, bhí ag éirí go maith leo le seal blianta agus ar feadh an chogaidh. Ach i ndiaidh an chogaidh tháinig meath orthu mar tháinig ar go leor tionscail eile. Ba é an báinín, nó an bréidin baile an príomh-thionscail a bhí againn sa Ghaeltacht. Tá bun air le dhá chéad bliain anall agus thug sé saothrú mór do na daoine. Ar feadh cúig mblian an chogaidh dheireannaigh tugadh isteach i nGaeltacht Thír Chonaill amháin, ar son báinín baile, £100,000, in aghaidh na bliana. Ach dá bhliain ó shoin (1947) thit an tóin as an mhargadh agus stad an ceannach ar an bháinín baile. Ní sé mhí ó shoin mar dúirt an Teachta Ó Breisleáin goill an meath seo ar cheannach an bháinín ar dhá mhíle muirín agus ní thig a mheas cad é atá caillte acu dá bharr. Go dearfa ní bheifeá ag éagaoin orthu dá mbeadh siad ag guidhe an Rí cogadh beag eile a chur chugainn.

Ar aon chaoi go dtí go mbeidh an domhan go léir ar staid síochána agus tráchtáil agus airgead ag siúl go réidh i measc na náisiúin ní thig linn a bheith ag dréim le luach seasmhach ar earraí ar bith. Tá mé cinnte go bhfuil Gaeltarra Éireann agus oifigigh an Aire ar a ndícheall ag iarraidh margadh d'fháil do na tionscail baile—go háithrid an báinín—agus go bhfuil súil in airde acu i ngach tír ar féidir díolaíocht a dhéanamh ann. Beimid ag dréim le cuidiú dúthrachtach fosta ón Roinn Tionscail agus Tráchtála san obair seo. Ní fáth neamairt é.

Go dtig éileamh agus ceannach ar an bháinín ar ais mholfainn do mhuintir na Gaeltachta cromadh ar thionscal eile atá faoi réim cheart anois—sin tionscal na n-éanlaithe tí agus uibheacha. Ar ndóigh is fíor an sean-fhocal: "Nár dhruid Dia doras ariamh nár fhoscail Sé ceann eile." Tá margadh maith agus margadh seasmhach againn ar uibheacha agus an té a rachas i gcionn an tionscail seo i ndáiríre is é mo bharúil go ndéanfaidh sé níos mó air ná rinne sé ariamh ar an bháinín. Tá deontais le fáil as tithe cearc a thógáil—deontais fiúntacha—agus ní leithscéal ag feirmeoir beag ar bith gan teach cearc a bheith aige. Gidh nach bhfuil an tionscal seo faoi chúram an Aire, tá fhios agam go bhfuil suim mhór aige ann mar tá sé chun leasa mhuintire na Gaeltachta.

Dúradh mórán faoin imirce sa díospóireacht seo ach is beag a thuigeas an scéal i gceart. Tá an imirce san fhuil ag an Ghael. Síleann cuid de na daoine nach bhfuil aon leigheas ar an scéal ach saothrú agus saibhreas agus soilse geala na gcathrach a thabhairt isteach sa Ghaeltacht. Ní chuirfeadh sin féin stad ar an imirce. Tá intinn mhíshuaimhneach ag an aos óg agus níl siad sásta le saol na tuaithe; caithfidh siad an domhan mór a fheiceál. Tá an craolachán, na scannáin, an páipéar nuaíochta anois ar fud na Gaeltachta ag cur ár ndaoine óga faoi dhraíocht agus á mealladh ar shiúl i gcéin uainn. Is doiligh leigheas a fháil ar an aicíd sin. Chím féin fir agus cailiní óga ag imeacht a bhfuil caoi mhaith saothruithe acu sa bhaile, a muintir ina suí go te, ach buaileann an steall iad agus caithfidh siad imeacht go bfheicfidh siad saol na gcathrach agus iontais an domhain.

Is é mo bharúil nár chóir duinn bheith ag éagaoin ar na cailiní atá ag imeacht uainn ón Ghaeltacht. I gcroi an uile chailín tá mian pósta agus ós rud annamh pósadh sa Ghaeltacht, bheadh eagla uirthi go bhfaigheadh an aois greim uirthi sul a bhfaigheadh sí fear céile. Agus cé bheadh ina dhiaidh uirthi imeacht leis an intinn sin; ní bheadh saoirse ar bith againn da gcuirtí bac uirthi. Go cinnte dá mbeadh monarchain mar seo againn amuigh faoin tuaith d'fhéadfaí fir óga a choinneáil le hobair iontu agus bhéarfadh sé caoi dhóibh cailíní as an tuaith a phósadh. Ach tá na monarchain seo plodaithe istigh sna cathracha in áit iad a bheith scaptha ó cheann go ceann na tíre.

Tá monarchain amháin againn i nGaeltacht Thír Chonaill—monarchain olla—agus tá ag éirí go tairbheach léi. Tá seó ag tabhairt saothrú maith do na céadta fear agus bean óg sa cheantar sin. Bheireann saothrú seasmhach mar seo caoi do na fir óga pósadh sa bhaile. Dá mbeadh níos mó monarchain den chinéal seo againn ar fud na Gaeltachta ní bheadh an t-aos óg ag imeacht uainn. Ní fheicim leigheas ar bith eile ar an imirce ach é. Sin agus na tionscail eile: iascaireacht, foraoiseacht a chur chun cinn.

Táim ag iarraidh ar an Aire claonadh níos mó leis na tionscail a oireas do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Tuilleadh cumhacht a thabhairt do Ghaeltarra Eireann i ngnótha tráchtála agus gan moill a chur orthu ag fanacht le údarás ón Roinn seo agus ón Roinn eile nuair atá gnótha práinneach idir lámha acu.

Vivion de Valera

Ní raibh mé chun labhairt ar an Meastachán seo, ach ós rud é gur dúradh rudaí mar gheall ar thionscail, ba mhaith liom focal nó dhó a rá in a thaobh. Tá trácht ar cheist na Gaeilge is cultúr, agus is ceist mhór í sin agus d'fhéadfadh Teachtaí eile trácht air sin. Ach ar thaobh eile leis sin, tá ceist na ndaoine féin ann. Seo mar chímse an scéal. Baineann an Meastachán seo le dream daoine faoi leith atá ag iarraidh maireachtáil i gcuid den tír atá bocht agus níl an seans céanna acu atá ag daoine eile in áiteacha eile ar fud na hÉireann. Dá bhrí sin, measaim, gur chóir dúinn aire speisialta a thabhairt don cheist agus cúnamh speisialta a thabhairt do na daoine sin. Isé an trioblóid go bhfuil an chuid is mó den Ghaeltacht an-bhocht agus go bhfuil sé an-deacair ar fad ag na daoine sin maireachtáil. Ar an ábhar sin, mura féidir leis an Rialtas cúnamh a thabhairt dóibh, caithfidh siad imeacht, agus beidh na daoine sin caillte againn idir chailíní agus buachaillí, agus beídh an chuid sin den tír lom aice.

Anois sé an chéad trioblóid in a thaobh sin, mar fheicimse é, ná an rud a rinne an Rialtas i dtaobh na móna. Bhí tionscail ansin ag na daoine. Fuaireadar cuid mhaith cúnamh le maireachtáil ann. Anois tá an tionscail sin marbh orthu agus, dá bhrí sin, bhí ar a lán acu imeacht as an tír. Ar an taobh eile, bhí tionscal eile acu, an bréidín. Ós rud é nach raibh na hAirí agus an Rialtas ag smaoineamh orthu, rinneadar connartha le na Sasanaigh a mharaigh an tionscal sin. Agus da bharr sin anois, tagann an tAire isteach anseo agus deireann sé go bhfuil sé chun a thuille airgid a bhaint díobh ins an Meastachán seo. Measaim nach ceart é sin.

Ar thaobh amháin, mar a dúirt mé, tá ceist na Gaeilge fhéin. Tá an cheist seo, an cheist i dtaobh na ndaoine féin, ann; agus ba mhaith liom an cheist sín a phlé anois agus a iarraidh ar an Aire an Meastachán so a chur ar ais chuig an Rialtas agus níos mó airgid d'fháil ionas gur féidir le muintir na Gaeltachta maireachtáil in a ndúthaigh féin. Measaim gur féidir leo é sin a dhéanamh. Níl an cheist go dona maidir leis an Roinn Airgeadais agus ní bheidh orthu an oiread sin airgid a thabhairt amach i gcóir bídh agus rudaí den tsaghas sin i mbliana. Fuaireadar bronntanas mór ó mhuintir Guinness agus tá an t-airgead sin ann. Cén fáth nach féidir leo beagáinín a thabhairt do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Dá bhrí sin, ba mhaith liom iarraidh ar an Aire an Meastachán seo a chur ar ais chuig an Rialtas.

I had not intended actively intervening in this debate, though it is a matter of considerable importance to this country. It is important in two respects. It is important, firstly, by virtue of the fact that the people involved are the people through whom has been preserved our native language, and, therefore, they have an important cultural value. As I said already, that in itself is a very important question, but it is one into which I do not intend to go any further now, as I know that other Deputies more competent than I will deal with it adequately. But, side by side with that important aspect, that very important national aspect, there is the economic aspect from the point of view of those people living in the Gaeltacht areas. We must not forget that, quite apart from the preservation of the language, and quite apart from the fact that in these areas survives that part of our race which has preserved the language and which was driven across the Shannon by Cromwell—quite apart from that important aspect, an aspect which I do not minimise in any way, there is a very definite economic aspect both for them and for the country.

You have, due to history and Cromwell, I suppose, in particular, the fact that a large part of our people was driven and compressed into relatively infertile and relatively unproductive portions of our country. Their descendants are now living in these relatively barren areas, areas which, even if populated at an equivalent density to other areas of the country, would still be poor, but which, in actual fact, are congested, having regard to the density of population in other areas. That being so, it is apparent that the difficulties which these people have had in living are not artificial or in no way attributable to themselves, but are due to the lack of amenities and resources in the areas in which they live and into which they have been compressed.

In that situation, it is obvious that the State must do something for them, seeing that they are actually denied, by virtue of the areas in which they live, the density of the population and by force of physical circumstances, a chance of fighting an equal struggle for existence with people in other parts of the country. That fact makes it incumbent on the rest of the community, in the interests of the whole, to come to their aid. That can only be done by State intervention which, I understand, is the purpose of this Vote. The success of that intervention in the past is, I think, a complete justification for the plea that we are making now, that that intervention should be continued. Such intervention is more than ever necessary at the present moment. I do not propose to enter into the merits or demerits of the discontinuance of hand-won turf production at the present moment. Whatever the merits or demerits may be, the hard fact remains that because of that discontinuance great hardship has been inflicted on the people in the Gaeltacht areas. Because of its discontinuance, too, a certain impetus has been given to emigration from these areas. I assert that as a fact. It is a fact which neither this House nor the country can afford to ignore. Added to that there is the decline in industry. The Minister referred to that himself. It seems to me that we all too easily accept the statement that economic conditions generally have brought about a declining trend. But there is much in the will to achieve and much can be achieved if the will is there. Many people are not satisfied that some of these industries cannot be developed to the benefit of the community as a whole. In answer to a specific point raised by the Minister, the fact is that the tweeds situation has worsened because of the voluntary agreement entered into by the Government—the trade agreement to which the Deputy who moved that this Estimate be referred back adverted. It may be, as the Minister said, that at a later stage the other market might be closed. But the fact is that we actually agreed to that and precipitated that situation. If such an essential commodity as cloth is being produced in the Gaeltacht areas, surely it should be possible to organise a market for that cloth. Of necessity there must be a large consumption of cloth even at home. During the past 12 months there has been a deterioration in the situation.

At the present moment we have here favourable financial circumstances as a whole. The Minister for Finance is in the fortunate position of being able to effect substantial economies because he will not have to spend the same amount on wheat. Wheat subsidies will cost less. He has had a windfall amounting to roughly £1,000,000 in the matter of estate duties. He is more favourably placed than any Minister for Finance since the outbreak of war in 1939. He is in a position to do things. Yet, from the economic point of view, we have a group of people living in the most infertile part of the country with a greater density of population and in urgent need of assistance. We know from past experience that that assistance can be beneficial to them. But here we cut the Estimate. We talk about keeping the people on the land. We complain about the drift to the city. Here where we could do something concrete we are asked to cut the Estimate. I support those who asked to have this Estimate referred back. I appeal to the Minister to reconsider it in the light of the more favourable financial circumstances now developing.

Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin

Ba mhaith liom tús a chur ar mo chuid cainte le ceist a chur ar an Aire cén fáth ar laghdaíodh an Meastachán i gcóir Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta cúig is fiche faoin gcéad agus nach bhfuil de laghdú ar na meastacháin ar fad ach sé nó seacht faoin gcéad. Tá buille trom buailte ar an nGaeltacht ar go leor slite ó thainig an Rialtas seo in oifig. Tá siad i ndon rud ar bith a chur trasna ar aon amadán a chreideas iad. Nuair a bhreathnaíos tú ar an liosta de na seirbhísí atá faoi chúram an Aire sa Meastachán seo, chíonn tú go bhfuil chuile cheann acu dá laghdú, dá gearradh anuas. Tóg, mar shampla, an Meastachán in aghaidh na dtithe. Rinneamar gearán leis an Aire nuair a bhí Acht Tithe na Gaeltachta ag duI tríd an Teach seo, gur dearnadh moill bliana leis an mBille a thabhairt isteach agus nach raibh údar ar bith leis an moill sin. Tá an bhliain sin imithe agus níl soláthar sa Meastachán seo i gcóir na dtithe ach an oiread airgid agus a dhéanfadh 30 tithe don Ghaeltacht. Sin a bhfuil soláthraithe sa Meastachán, tar éis a bhfuil maíte agus ráite agus de ghaisceadh déanta mar gheall air, agus tar éis moill bhliana a bheith déanta sa rud.

An rud is mó a bhfuil laghdú air is é an soláthar le haghaidh tionscail an bhréidín, an ceannasna, agus an tsníomhacháin is na figheadóireachta. Tá laghdú níos mó ná leith-chéad míle £53,000. Tá aithne agam ar shiopadóir amháin i mo dháilcheantar agus bhí sé ag díol luach £300 sa tseachtain den bhréidín agus tá sé sin sciobtha le haon bhuille amháin de bharr an aontais a rinneadh go hamaideach— sin é mo thuairim faoi—le Sasana. Dubhairt an Teachta Lemass nuair a bhí sé ag caint ar an aontas sin, go mb'fhearr i bhfad don tír seo deireadh a chur leis an aontas mar a bhí beartaithe ag an sean-Rialtas i dtaobh an chinn a bhí ann, an ceann a rinneadar féin roimh an gcogadh, b'fhearr i bhfad gan aon cheann nua a dhéanamh, agus an scéal a fhágáil go fánach gan aontas ar bith idir an tír seo agus na Sasanaigh i dtaoibh tráchtála agus go mór mór rudaí a bhaineas le tionscail na Gaeltachta. Dá ndéantaí ar an gcaoi sin, ní bheadh an scéal pioc níos measa—tá mise ag ceapadh go mbeadh sé i bhfad níos fearr—don Ghaeltacht maidir leis an tionscal seo.

Tóg, ansin, na tionscail tuaithe. Tá tuarastal na n-oibrithe, na daoine atá ag saothrú sna tionscail sin gearrtha £10,000. Tá an rud céanna ann i dtaoibh tionscal na mara. Ós rud é go bhfuil mé ag tagairt do na tionscail mhara sin, bhí mé ag súil le ráiteas éigin ón Aire i dtaobh an Bhille nua atá tagtha isteach—ach b'fhéidir go mbeadh sé sáthach luath nuair a bheas an Bille sin ag dul tríd an Dáil, an Alginate Industries Bill.

Níl muintir na Gaeltachta sásta go bhfuil Cothrom na Féinne dá thabhairt dóibh i dtaobh tionscal na mara, nó marine industries go mór mór i dtaobh ceannach na feamainne.

Tá clamhsán ar fud na Gaeltachta nach bhfuil ceannach ceart féireálta le fáil acu anois go mór mór na slata mara—ní dóigh liom go bhfuil siad ag ceannach aon chineál eile agus go bhfuil siad á, bhfágáil ar a lámha, ar bheagán údair. Má tá locht dá laghad orthu, ní ceannófar uathu iad. Rinneadh tagairt anseo do scéim na móna. Níl mise ag dul ag déanamh rud mór den cheist sin anseo, ach ba mhaith liom cuidiú leis an gcaint faoi agus a chur in iúl don Aire—cé nach bhfuil pinginn ar bith sa Meastachán seo in a thaobh—go raibh muintir na Gaeltachta ag súil, nuair a stopfadh tionscal na móna go mbeadh meadú mór ar na scéimeanna fostaíochta ach céard a tharla? Tar éis tionscal na móna a bheith stoptha sa Samhraidh tháinig an Geimhreadh, agus nuair a tháinig na scéimeanna fostaíochta speisialta atá ceaptha go speisialta don Ghaeltacht, laghdaíodh go dtí a leath iad. Agus bhí an scéal céanna le haithris i dtaobh scéim na dtithe gloine. Gach rud a bhaineas leis an nGaeltacht, tháinig an tAire Airgeadais agus sciob sé iad, an méid d'fhéad sé a sciobadh eis. Is iad an dream is lú aire leis an Rialtas seo, ar chuma ar bith, muintir na Gaeltachta.

Tá scéal nua ag na daoine atá ag cosaint an Rialtais, agus sin é, go bhfuil an Gael siúlach, go mbíonn fonn spaisteoireachta air, agus nár cheart aon bhac a chur leis nuair a bhuaileas an fonn é.

Thosnaigh an tAire Talmhaíochta ar an bport sin agus lean go leor daoine eile é agus bhí daoine ag iarraidh a chur in a luí orrainn go bhfuil dream nua sa tír, dream nach bhfuil gá ar bith dhóibh imeacht as an tír ag tóraíocht oibre ach go bhfuil siad chomh deisiúl sa sao agus chomh maith sin as, go raibh ar a gcumas imeacht leo as an tír le tiortha eile a fheiceál.

Conchubhair Ó Liatháin

Níor lean aoinne i gClann na Poblachta an port sin, agus ná bí ag cur ina luí orainn gur lean.

Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin

Ós rud é go bhfuil daoine anseo, dreamanna áirithe, ag iarraidh iad féin a chosaint ar an rudaí atá mé ag cur ar an Rialtas tá Clann na Poblachta anois—

Conchubhair Ó Liatháin

Ní fíor a rá gur leanadar an port sin.

Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin

An bhfuil an Teachta Ó Liatháin ag séanadh gur gearradh anuas na scéimeanna fostaíochta go dtí a leath an chéad bhlian a tháinig an Rialtas seo in oifig? Bhfuil sé ag séanadh gur stopadh tionscal na móna—

Conchubhair Ó Liatháin

Agus cúis leis.

Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin

An bhfuil sé ag séanadh gur stopadh beagnach leath de na tithe gloine thiar i gConamara, an scéim is breátha dá dtáinig fós. Tá mise ag rá leis anois go bhfuil imirce nua ann agus ní hé an cineál a bhíodh ann. Tá imirce nua ann agus sin é go bhfuil teaghlaigh iomlána ag imeacht as an tír. Tá siad ag díol a gcuid talúna agus ag bailiú leo as an tír go America. Sin rud nár tharla le fada an lá agus tá ag tarló anois.

Tá an Rialtas seo den tuairim go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht sásta le rud ar bith a caitear leo. Is cuimhin liom duine a bhí in aghaidh Fianna Fáil fadó—níl a fhios agam bhfuil sé páirteach i bpolaitíocht anois—ag rá, nach raibh iontú ach "a weak and vespertine people." Is cosúil go bhfuil an Rialtas seo den tuairim chéanna, mar ceapann siad go bhfuil muintir na Gaeltachta sásta le cúnamh dífhostaíochta agus rudaí den tsórt sin, agus má fhaigheann siad beagáinín beag sa mbreis thar a raibh le fáil acu go dtí seo, go mbeidh siad sásta na tionscail a soláthraíodh dóibh a fheiceáil ag imeacht uathu agus á scuabadh uathu.

Níl mise sásta leis an Meastachán seo, agus má ta aon laghdú le déanamh ar na Meastacháin le haghaidh seirbhísí poiblí, tá muintir na Gaeltachta sásta a gcuid féin den laghdú sin a bheith orthu féin. Ach seo í an cheist atá á cur ar an Rialtas acu—cad chuige a bhfuil siad ag tromaíocht ar fad orthu ag gearradh anuas Meastach in na Gaeltachta, na seirbhísí a bhain as leis an nGaeltacht an ceathrú cuid, agus sásta gan na Meastacháin don tír ar fad a laghdú ach an ceathrú cuid déag? Cad chuige a bhfuil an difir sin ann? Cad chuige a bhfuil an Rialtas ag brú chomh trom sin ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta? Tá freagra dá iarraidh ag muintir na Gaeltachta ar an gceist agus mura bhfaighfear freagra sásúil uirthi, ní bheidh mé féin sásta leis an Meastachán seo.

S. Ó Mongáin

Le breathnú ar an Meastachán cheapfadh duine go raibh sé íslithe go mór ach nuair a breathnaítear níos géire air níl sé chomh híslithe sin mar sé déantús an éadaigh is mó a thug anuas é. Tá luach na mílte den éadach seo déanta faoi láthair agus é ina luí sa stór i nDún na nGall. Dúirt Teachta éigin gur le sé mhí a thosaigh sé seo. Seasann an fhírinne nuair imíos an bhréag. Nach bhfnil a fhios ag chuile dhuine a bhfuil rian aige gur i 1947 a thosaigh sé seo, nuair a lig an tAire a bhí ann an tam sin éadach shoddy genteel isteach! Chuir sé sin stad le déantus an éadaigh sa nGaeltacht. Cén mhaith leanacht den éadach seo a dhéanamh go mbeidh an chuid is mó dá bhfuil ar láimh curtha as an mbealach. Le cúnamh Dé, is gearr é sin, agus tá súil agamsa ansin go dtosófar dáiríre air.

Anois, faoi Acht na dTithe. Dúirt Teachta áirithe nach bhfuil ach an oiread airgid ann is a dhéanfadh deich dteach fhichead. Cén mhaith a bheith ag fiodmhagadh mar seo? Mar tá a fhios againn nach fíor é. Is eol dom féin níos mó ná dhá chéad iarratas a bheith istigh faoi láthair agus dá mbeadh na foirmeacha againn bheadh a oiread eile againn. Nár dhúirt an tAire go raibh sé le Meastachán breise faoin gceist seo a thabhairt isteach gan mhoill? Ní hé amháin gurb iad na tithe atá le tógáil a gheofas an deontas, ach na tithe a rinneadh le dhá bhliain, ardófar an deontas na leith. Feicfimid go mbeidh a chomhartha lena chois roimh dhá bhliain ó inniu. Mura mbeidh agus má fhágann Dia mo shláinte agamsa níl duine ar bith is dána a labhrós amach ina aghaidh ná mé. Nuair a bheas na hiarratais uilig scrúdaithe feicfidh sibh féin go mbeidh an t-airgead ann lena n-aghaidh. Labhair an Teachta Mac Pharthaláin faoi na slata mara—slata mara ar bith a feistíodh le bliain, táim cinnte gur ceannaíodh iad. Tá Meastachán faoi leith á thabhairt isteach faoin monarcha i gCill Chiaráin. Cuirfear é seo ar a bhonna i gceart agus, le cúnamh Dé, coinneofar ar a chosa é. Tá mé cinnte go ndéanfaidh an tAire go leor i gConamara faoi Roinn na Foraoiseachta. Tiúraidh sí go leor oibre uaithi agus má bhíonn obair le fáil is ar na daoine féin an locht mara dtóga siad í. Gan aimhreas, tá go leor daoine ag fágáil na tíre. Mar sin a bhí an scéal le fada ariamh anall; ach tháinig go leor acu abhaile, agus ba mhaith dhóibh acu an baile. Tá sean-fhocal ann adeir gur glas iad na cnoic ach nach féarmhar.

Tá a lán cainte faoin nGaeilge agus muintir na Gaeltachta ach ní maith samhail a théas i bhfad. Duine uasal atá ina lán béil ag an domhan i ngeall ar ar fhulaing sé go foighdeach ar son a thíre—Pandit Nehru—Príomh-Aire na hIndia, bhí sé anseo ar feadh tamaill inniu ach nach brónach le n-aithris é, agus chomh gaisgiúil is a bhíos muid asainn féin, nár chuala sé oiread is ceist ná freagra i dteanga na hÉireann nó cén sórt tuairim a bheas aige fúinn chor ar bith nuair rachas sé ar ais? Is eagla liom go ndéarfaidh sé leis féin nach bhfuil teanga ar bith sa tír seo ach teanga an tSasanaigh. Tá mé cinnte go bhfuil Teachtaí ar an taobh eile den teach a bhfuil an oiread cás acu sa nGaeilge is atá agamsa agus is rí-mhór an trua é nach bhféadfadh muid uilig—cairde na Gaeilge sa Teach seo—a theacht le chéile agus gníomh a dhéanamh ar son na Gaeilge a spreagfadh an óige chun gnímh. Ba cheart ar a laghad do chuile Theachta a bhfuil Gaeilge aige í a labhairt mar is treise sompla ná teagasc.

Mr. B. Brady

This Estimate as presented this year holds out very little hope of any future whatever for the homespun industry. Last year, when the Minister was speaking on the Estimate for Gaeltacht Services, in reply to criticism he referred to the hopes that he had placed in the agreement that had then recently been made with France. He informed the House that he had high hopes as a result of that agreement that something would be done to procure markets for Donegal homespuns. In his statement this year the Minister has repeated the platitudes of last year that it was hoped in the near future to get markets for homespun, but nothing has materialised in the meantime. There was a pretty lucrative market in Donegal for the manufacturers of homespun who disposed of their materials in Britain through the parcels post, but, as a result of the agreement made last year, that market has been taken from the producers. The result is that, instead of an effort being made to expand and to develop this industry, as was promised here last year, the Minister and his Department, by revoking the Order that was made in 1943 by the Minister for Industry and Commerce whereby the purchase of homespun was the complete monopoly of the Gaeltacht Services Department, have indicated that so far as they are concerned they are not prepared to give any assistance whatever to the Donegal homespun industry. Before adopting that attitude, the Minister and his Department at least should have provided a market by purchasing through Gaeltarra Éireann. There is scarcely a house in the parishes of Glencolmcille, Ardara and possibly, to a lesser extent, Kilcar, in which there are not two webs of homespun which have been left on the people's hands. They produced homespuns for Gaeltarra Éireann when they were the only purchasers. Gaeltarra Éireann have washed their hands of it now and they have left this material in the homes of the producers, who can very ill afford the loss entailed.

I would appeal again, as I appealed last year, to the Minister and to the Department that before the swan song of the Donegal homespun industry is sung they should make arrangements through their buyers to purchase the homespun that they have left on the hands of these people who manufactured it for Gaeltarra Éireann.

With regard to the Round Tower industry, which I always regard as separate and distinct from the homespun industry, the Estimates this year reveal that there is no great enthusiasm, no great drive or initiative in the Department in trying to develop it. There is a considerable reduction in the amount of money made available this year for the rural industries and marine industries generally. I think the reduction is nearly £100,000 on last year's Estimate. Yet, if we go into the figures of the Estimate we discover that, despite the huge reduction in the amount allowed for the various industries for the purchase of material, general expenses and upkeep, the cost of the Central Marketing Board in Dublin, who market the products of these industries, is up by almost £11,000 on the Estimate for last year. Although we are spending £100,000 less on materials, it takes £11,000 more in salaries, wages and travelling expenses to administer the lesser sum. There is something seriously wrong in a Department where that state of affairs is allowed to exist.

There is an increase in sub-head D (9). There is an increase of over £2,000 in sub-head D (11) for fuel, etc., despite the fact that there is a decrease in the materials to be processed—a reduction of from £41,000 last year to £25,000 this year, a reduction of about 40 per cent. Under sub-head D (10) there is a reduction from £21,000 odd to £6,000 odd in regard to materials. Despite that reduction of roughly two-thirds, there is an increase of £160 in the cost of power and maintenance. Apparently, although reducing the amount of money allowed for the provision of materials and work, the expenses in connection with that particular item are increased by £160 and they are increased under sub-head D (11) by £2,000.

Taking these figures, we would be entitled to have got from the Minister in his opening statement some more lucid explanation than we got from him. If the homespun industry is finished, as there is every indication here as far as I can see, the Minister should take the House and the people who are engaged in that industry into his confidence and tell them frankly that he can see no hope for the future of homespuns and that they should divert their attention to some other means of livelihood.

Unfortunately, during the past 12 months a number of people who had been engaged in the spinning and weaving of homespun have left home and have left the country. There are still some weavers and spinners left who would be interested to know what is the future for this product and, if there is no future for it, as is indicated by the provision being made for it in this Estimate, the Minister and the Department should tell the people that. They should, at the same time, purchase from them the homespun already manufactured. These people in all good faith manufactured this cloth in the hope that there would be a market for it under the instructions of, and in some cases with the material provided by, the Department and they are entitled to be paid for the material so manufactured and to have it taken off their hands.

If we cannot run this Department more economically, if we cannot get a better return from the money expended on it, this House should seriously consider whether Gaeltarra Éireann as at present constituted should be scrapped and something substituted for it, something less costly and something that will have a personnel having more drive and initiative than appears to be the case in this particular Department.

The fuel charges for this year seem to be on the whole greater than last year. Last year and the previous years during the emergency, practically since the machinery was installed in the factory at Kilcar, turf had to be purchased in order to keep the plant going. Considering the methods by which turf was purchased and brought there, one would imagine that the fuel costs should not be any higher than the fuel costs in the years 1945, 1946 and 1947, to keep the plant in existence. Despite the fact that petrol and transport in the way of lorries are more freely available than in previous years, we have the cost of fuel, which, I take it, arises principally in connection with the factory at Kilcar, increased this year by £2,000. I should like to know if that is the result of the change-over from turf to oil burning machinery, whether it is oil burning machinery that will be used in Kilcar factory in future or whether a percentage of turf will be used. What is the explanation for the increase? Is it that turf is dearer or that the oil fuel is dearer? What is the reason for an increase in fuel costs of something in the region of £2,000?

I should like to appeal to the Minister on behalf of a number of instructresses engaged in the Rural Industries Branch of Gaeltacht Services. These girls have worked for many years on a temporary basis and something should be done to put them on a permanent and pensionable basis. I heard the Minister refer earlier to the case of officials in another Department whose claim for similar consideration was under examination. Many of these girls have been with the Department since it was set up over 20 years ago. I think that they are entitled to some consideration and that they should be made permanent and pensionable so that when the time comes when they will have to retire they will have some provision to fall back upon after their years of service with this Department. I would appeal to the Minister to consider the question of making provision by way of pensions for these instructresses.

Conchubhair Ó Liatháin

Anuraidh nuair a thug an tAire an Meastachán seo ós comhair na Dála do b'e Meastachán Fianna Fáil a bhí á thabhairt isteach aige. Bhí laghdú ar an Meastachán a tugadh isteach an bhliain roimhe sin, laghdú a rinne Fianna Fáil. I mbliana, ta laghdú ann arís agus caithfidh an tAire bheith freagarthach as an laghdú sin. Nílimse, agus nílmid i gClann na Poblachta sásta leis an Meastachán seo atá tugtha isteach ag an Aire. Táimid ar an tuairim nach bhfuil Cothrom na Féinne á thabhairt don Ghaeltacht ná do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Ní bhfuaireadar Cothrom na Feínne riamh. Ní bhfuaireadar é ón gcead Rialtas a bhí againn anseo, Rialtas Chumann na nGaedheal. Ní bhfuaireadar é ó Rialtas Fianna Fáil agus níl sé á fháil acu faoi láthair. Dá bhrí sin, tá sé de dhualgas orm é sin a rá go díreach í láthair an Tí.

Do réir mar a chímse é, ní fheicim go bhfuil puinn difríochta idir aon dream de na dreamanna móra i gcas an dearcadh atá acu ar an nGaeltacht agus ar an nGaeilge. Eiríonn tábhacht cheist na Gaeltachta, an tábhacht a chímíd san Meastachan seo, as an dlúth-cheangal atá idir an Ghaeltacht agus an Ghaeilge.

Má cailtear an Ghaeltacht ní sábhálfar an Ghaeilge. Aontaím le roint mhaith de'n chaint a rinne an Teachta Mac Pharthaláin, ach rud amháin adúirt sé nach féidir liom a thuiscint, an chaint a rinne sé i dtaobh tionscail an bhréidín. Ní fheadar an dtuigeann sé an scéal ar aon chor nó an dtuigeann sé cad a thárla. An rud a loit agus a chuir críoch le tionscal an bhréidín ná an rud a rinne Fianna Fáil sa bhliain 1947 nuair a ligeadar isteach sa tír seo gach aon tsaghas éadaigh agus gach aon tsaghas déantúis idir éadaigh, gúnaí, léinteacha agus gach aon tsaghas déantúis olla ligeadar isteach iad i ndeireadh na bliana 1947.

Cormac Breathnach

Ar feadh tamaill.

Conchubhair Ó Liatháin

Ar feadh tamaill, is ea, ach ligeadar an oiread sin isteach gur chuireadar críoch le tionscal an bhréidín sa nGaeltacht agus críoch le han-chuid tionscal sa tír seo nach é. Ón uair sin amach is eól dom-sa go cinnte go ndearnadh dian-iarracht ar an méid stuif a bhí i lámha Gaeltarra Éireann a dhíol agus níor éirigh le stiúrthóirí an chomhluchta sin, ná na fó-Roinne sin, an stuif a bhí ar lámha acu a dhíol. I láthair na huaire, tuigtear dom go bhfuil suas le luach £100,000 d'earraí i lámha Gaeltarra Éireann. Do réir mar a feictear dúinn-ne, sé an leigheas is fearr ar na ceisteannaí achrannacha geilleagair atá ag goilliúint ar an Rialtas agus ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta ná scéim mhór fhoraoiseachta a chur i bhfeidhm agus a thabhairt chun críche chomh tapaidh i nÉirinn agus is féidir é.

Ní dóigh liom go bhfuighidh an Ghaeltacht Cothrom na Féinne go dtí go mbeidh Roinn faoi leith den Rialtas ag tabhairt aire don chuid sin den tír.

Cormac Breathnach

Tá an ceart agat.

Conchubhair Ó Liatháin

Ní thógaim ar an Aire atá anois ann go bhfuil sé ar bheagán Gaeilge, ach is dóigh liom gur mór an trua go bhfuil Aire atá ar bheagán Gaeilge i mbun na Roinne seo. Tá fhios agam go bhfuil an sheans ann nach ar an Aire seo gur chóir dhúinn a bheith ag tromaíocht i dtaobh an laghduithe, ach mura gcloisimid uaidh go mbeidh Meastachán Breise nó fo-Mheastachán á thabhairt isteach sa Teach seo aige i rith na bliana ní bheidh mise sásta vótáil ar thaobh an Rialtais ar an Meastachán seo. Caithfidh sé deimhniú éigin a thabbairt dúinn go ndéanfar níos mó ná mar is léir ón Meastachán atá ós ar gcóir anois. Caithfidh sé deimhniú éigin a thabhairt dúinn go ndéanfar an scéal d'athbhreithniú agus mura ndeánann sé é sin, ní bheidh mé i ndon cuidiú leis.

Tá an cheist seo ró-thábhachtach maidir le sábháil na Gaeilge. Brathann ábháil na Gaeilge ar shábháil na aeltachta. Ceann de na cuspóirí é in a bhí ag an bPiarsach nuair a úirt sé nach mbeadh sé sásta le Éire saor gan í bheith Gaelach leis, agus ní bheidh an Ghaeilge againn go mbeidh an Ghaeltacht sábhálta. Fanfaidh mé go gcloisfidh mé ón Aire go ndéanfar athbhreithniú ar an Meastachán seo nó go dtabharfar isteach fó-Mheastachán go socróidh mé cuidiú leis nó a mhalairt.

Seán Ó Gráda

Ba mhaith liom cúpla focal a rá i dtaobh an Mheastacháin seo. Ba bhrónach an scéal d'innis an tAire dhúinn i dtaobh na ceiste seo. Níl dóchas go mbeidh slí bheatha le fáil ag na daoine óga sa nGaeltacht agus muna bhfuil sé le fáil acu sa mbaile caithfidh siad dul thar lear go tíortha gallda. Níl acu ach paistí talún nach féidir leo cothú fháil astu agus caithfidh siad teicheadh as an tír muran féidir tionscail nua a chur ar bun agus na sean-tionscail d'athbheochaint agus a mhéadú.

In introducing this Estimate, the Minister held out very little hopes of any improvement in the Gaeltacht Services during the coming year.

Mr. Blowick

In the homespun industry.

Mr. O'Grady

In any of the industries concerned.

Mr. Blowick

Oh, no, I did not say that.

Mr. O'Grady

There is a reduction in practically each and every sub-head. There is a reduction of £8,700, machines and plant, under D (5). There is a reduction of £22,564, materials, under D (6). Under D (8), toy industry, there is a reduction of £9,790. Spinning is reduced by £15,335. Homespuns are down by £38,100. The leaden models industry is down by £5,200. There is not much sign of hope in any of these sub-heads of any expansion of the industries concerned. The Minister finished up by telling us, with regard to kelp and seaweed, that that industry is finished. If I heard the Minister correctly he used these words. He did not give us any explanation as to why that industry is finished. It is the one industry that affects the small portion of the Gaeltacht in my constituency. There is no other industry there and, for that reason, I should like the Minister, when he is replying, to explain why he thinks that industry is finished. The kelp industry has been carried on along the western seaboard for a long number of years. During the war years we were very glad to have it. The time may come again when we will be very pleased to have some such source of potash for fertilising.

Workers' wages in 1948 were £104,500. In 1949 they were down to £94,850. That represents a reduction of almost £10,000 in the earnings of these workers. That does not show any great hope of an expansion during the next 12 months.

In my opinion, the Round Tower tweeds compare favourably with any others to be had anywhere in the world.

Mr. Blowick

I agree with the Deputy.

Mr. O'Grady

Not all of the Minister's colleagues sitting behind him agree with that point of view. On one occasion one of them, sitting on the benches over here, took out a sample of the tweed and, to show what rotten stuff it was, started tearing it like a monkey. Action of that kind is scarcely a good advertisement for the sale of our tweeds. That Deputy knew well that he was misleading the public and that he was doing serious injury to that industry. His action has now had the effect of a boomerang so far as the present Minister is concerned. It was most unfair and uncalled for. If the criticism were justified, well and good, but, in my opinion and in the opinion of those who know, Round Tower tweeds and Round Tower products generally can compare with any of their kind in the world. Therefore, I think it is a question of salesmanship. I know of no reason why, if there is a proper drive to sell these goods, they could not be sold. I know of one firm in New York which, I understand, would be prepared to take the entire output. Now that the war is over, that market should be looked into. I would advise the Minister to do all he possibly can in regard to that market in America. Here at home a great deal could be done by propaganda. Incidentally, I am glad to notice that there is an increase of £5,000 this year in the amount provided for advertisements.

Mr. Blowick

£7,000.

Mr. O'Grady

All the better, but I understood it was a net increase of £5,000.

Mr. Blowick

Deputy B. Brady does not agree with it. I think the increase is £7,000.

Mr. O'Grady

Under sub-head F (2) the Minister will see that the increase is £5,000.

Mr. Blowick

Deputy B. Brady does not agree with it.

Mr. O'Grady

At any rate, there has been an increase and I am glad of it. I hope that that money will be put to good use with a view to providing markets for these products. There was considerable hope some years ago for these industries and there is hope for these industries established at Killybegs. Incidentally, I think the American market should be explored. If we can sell these goods in the United States we will be able to secure dollars which, I think, the Minister for Finance would be very glad to get, as well as providing useful employment for the workers in the Gaeltacht. I regret very much that interest has not been maintained to foster these industries. If this matter is not tackled seriously we shall have a continuation of emigration from these areas. The people cannot possibly live on the small patches of land where there is such a dense population at the present time. They cannot live on a few acres of poor soil, and if employment cannot be provided for them the obvious thing for them to do is to emigrate. If there is mass emigration from the Gaeltacht I am afraid it will not only kill the Gaeltacht industries, but the Gaeltacht will also be finished. It is not a pleasant matter for any Party in the House to contemplate. This is a matter, as I have frequently stated on which all Parties should agree. We should all put our best effort forward to find a solution of the employment problem in the Gaeltacht areas generally. It is on these areas we have to look in the future for the livelihood of the country.

I would particularly request the Minister, when he is concluding, to deal with the oldest industry of them all— the kelp industry—and to give an explanation to the people concerned why it is considered that that industry is finished. I am afraid that the Minister and his Department are not giving as much attention to that particular industry as it deserves.

Tomás Ó Deirg

Nuair a bhí an conradh tráchtála le Sasana an bhlian seo thart á athphlé sa Dáil, do thuig eamar ón Aire Tionscail agus Tráchtála go mbeadh margadh le fáil i Sasana don bhréidín agus d'éadach lámhdhéanta, agus, gidh gur cuireadh críoch le na beartanna bréidín ag dul tríd an bpost, go bhfaigheadh lucht na Gaeltachta margadh níos fearr dá gcuid bréidín sna gnáth-shlite tráchtála tré na ceannaithe. Dúirt an tAire an uair sin go raibh idir £150,000 agus £250,000 de bhréidín agus d'éadach lámhdhéanta eile d'fhéadfaí a dhíol i Sasana faoin gconradh.

Má tá athrú ar an scéal sin anois, nach bhfuil aon feabhas, ach in ionad feabhais gur ag dul in éag atá an déantús seo, sin buille mór don Gaeilge.

Ní hé an chailliúnt airgid atá ann ach an cruthúnas atá ann go bhfuil rud éigin go bhfuil muintir na Gaeilge ag braith air, ag fáil bháis. Tá deireadh tagtha leis an déantús sin, agus níl aon rud, do réir dealraimh, dá chur ina ionad. Chím go bhfuil gearradh an-mhór déanta ag an Aire Talmhaíochta ar an airgead do na tithe gloine. Gidh go mb'éigean dó géilleadh nuair cuireadh ina luí air go gcaithfeadh sé leanúint leis an scéim, tá gearradh an-mhór déanta, £64,000 i mbliana. Agus sa Meastachán seo, tá gearradh síos sna déantúis tuaithe.

Nuair a théas duine tríd ná mírchinn feiceann sé gur ar ábhar déantúis ar fad atá an t-airgead sábhálta. Is aisteach an rud bheith ag smaoineamh ar na déantúis sin a chur chun cinn agus gearradh síos a dhéanamh faoi mheaisíní agus ábhar déantúis faoi gach mírcheann acu. Tá £95,000 de ghearradh agus tá timpeall le £87,000 de sin sábháilte ar ábhair í gcóir na ndéantús agus tuigim go maith go raibh feabhas an-mhaith ar lucht déanta bhréidín agus mar sin gur tháinig forás anmhaith ar an obair le linn an chogaidh agus b'fhéidir go dtitfeadh sé arís ach is é an trioblóid atá leis an déantús seo ná nach raibh saoirse ag an lucht ceannais riamh plean ceart a cheapadh. Tá lucht ceannais na seirbhísí ina Státsheirbhísígh iad féin. Dá mba daoine taobh amuigh iad a bhí neamhspleách d'féadfaidís pleananna a cheapadh. Ar ndóigh sa gcaoi sin is é a n-airgead féin a bheadh i gceist agus ní airgead an Stáit. Ach ar an taobh eile bheadh lán-chead acu pleananna a cheapadh agus d'fhéadfhaidís plean a chur os comhair an chomhluchta. Dá mba rud é go raibh praghsanna ag titim nó ag athrú ar an margadh d'fhéadfhaidís pleananna nua a cheapadh, ach is é an trioblóid leis an mbrainse seo nach bhfuil an tsaoirse sin acu. Tá siad ceangailte leis an Roinn Airgeadais. Dá ndéanfaí bord neamhspleách ar fad de Bhrainnse na Gaeltachta chomh fada agus a bhaineas sé le déantús b'fhéidir gurb é sin an socrú ab fhearr, ach go dtí seo níor cinneadh ar sin. Taispeánann an Meastachán seo nach bhfuil an scéim atá ann faoi láthair sásúil, mar tá deireadh á chur le cuid de na rudaí taobh amuigh den bhréidín. Deireann an tAire go bhfuil críoch leis an gceilp freisin agus níor chuir sé aon phlean ina ionad os comhair na Dála.

Ins an bPáipéar Bán a bhaineas le Plean Marshall tá sé ráite faoin gceist a bhí ar siúl againn sa Dáil in dé, ceist na foraiseachta go mba chóir "dynamic approach" a dhéanamh agus gan amhras má tá an Rialtas chun an plean sin a chur i bhfeidhm caithfidh an "dynamic approach" a bheith acu, ach cá bhfuil an "dynamic approach" in obair atá níos tábhachtaí fós? Mar adúirt mo chomh-Theachta, an Teachta Mac Pharthaláin, baineann an cheist le muintir na Gaeltachta agus ceist na Gaeilge. Ní amháin go gcuireann sí droch-mhisneach ar mhuintir na Gaeilge féin ó thaobh na Gaeilge dhe agus ó thaobh cúrsaí an tsaoil agus an tslí mhaireachtála atá acu, ach cuireann sí díomá agus déistean ar lucht leanúna na Gaeilge agus ar dhaoine a chreideas sa nGaeilge ins gach áit sa tír.

Bhí comóradh mór againn le gairid faoi Phoblacht na hÉireann ag teacht i bhfeidhm agus an íobairt a rinneadh Seachtain na Cásca. Is dóigh liom, dá gcuirfí ceist ar aoinne a bhí páirteach sa gcomóradh sin, go glacfadh sé móid go ndéanfadh sé gach rud abfhéidir leis a dhéanamh ar son na Gaeltachta agus ar son na Gaeilge. Ach, cá bhfuil an cruthúnas? Mar dúirt an Teachta Ó Mongáin—agus tháinig an smaoineah céanna chugam féin, le linn Príomh-Aire na hIndia a bheith i láthair anseo, cén saghas tuairim a bheadh aige faoi shean-sibhialtacht na hÉireann agus cultúr na hÉireann, go raibh sé anseo i bParlaimint na hÉireann agus, taobh amuigh den phaidir adúirt an Ceann Comhairle agus cúpla focal eile, Béarla ar fad a chuala sé—an teanga iasachta —teanga na daoine a bhí dár gcoinneál faoi chois le 750 blian. Is é an Béarla an teanga a chuala Pandit Nehru sa Teach seo inniu, ar an ócáid stairiúl seo. B'shin an saghas rud a tharla anseo. Tá daoine on tír seo amuigh in India, i Ceylon, i Burma, san Éigipt, ag múineadh agus tá na Rialtais nua sna tíortha sin ag tabhairt orthu na teangacha dúchasacha ansin a mhúineadh sna scoileanna agus gan aon rud eile a mhúineadh sna scoileanna nó imeacht as an tír ar fad.

Tá siad sin sásta, tá an méid sin foghlamtha acu, ó pholaitíocht na hEorpa agus stair na hEorpa, mura raibh sé acu féin ar dtús, an cultúr agus an teanga náisiúnta a chur sa gcéad áit. Tá mé cinnte, chomh maith leis sin a dhéanamh i gcúrsaí oideachais na dtíortha sin go gcuirfidh siad chun cinn iad sa bParlaimint agus ins gach áit éile. Táimíd dáíríre faoin nGaeilge nó táimíd ag cur dallamullóg orainn féin. Cibé slí a bhreathnaímid ar an Meastachán seo, tá sé an-mhí-shásúil. Tá sé mí-shásúil ó thaobh saol na ndaoine sa nGaeltacht.

Mr. O'Grady

Is it in order for the front Government Bench to be without an occupant?

An Ceann Comhairle

I think the Government Front Bench should not be left unoccupied. It is not, however, a matter for ruling by the Chair.

Tomás Ó Deirg

Tá sé as an tslí, más comhartha é den chuspóir agus den sprid atá taobh thiar den Rialtas. Is droch-chomhartha ar fad é. Ach an comhartha is measa, go bhfuil Rialtas nua againn agus, le linn an toghcháin, sul a dtáinig an Rialtas isteach chualamar a lán cainte faoin imirce, faoin nGaeilge, agus mar sin, go mbeadh ar an Rialtas bheith níos Gaelaí agus níos dáiríre faoi chúrsaí eacnamaíochta, agus go mór mór faoi shlí bheatha na ndaoine sna ceantair bhochta mar an Ghaeltacht, d'fheabhsú. Cá bhfuil an toradh, fiú amháin ceist na dtithe? Tugann an tAire an leithscéal céanna a thug sé inné, agus b'fhéidir go raibh cúis éigin aige inné. Do ghlac mise leis, ar aon chuma, mar leithscéal —go dtiocfadh sé than n-ais le Meastachán sa mbreis don chlár oibre atá leagtha amach aige i gcóir foraoiseachta ach nuair a thagas sé isteach anseo inniu le Meastachán go bhfuil gearradh mór de na milte púnt—an ceathrú cuid ar fad den Mheastachán, mar adúirt an Teachta Mac Phartaláin, gearrtha—agus nuair nach bhfuil aon scéal aige faoi cheist na dtithe fiú amháin, agus chomh deacair agus tá sé mórán a dhéanamh an chéad bhliain. Bhíomar ag fanacht bliain ar an mBille agus anois tá an tAire ag súil go bhfanfaimid bliain eile go dtí go mbeidh toradh éigin ar an Acht sin agus déanann sé iarracht an cheist ar fad do chur ar leataoibh, ag insint dúinn go bhfuil sé chun Meastachán sa mbreis a thabhairt isteach. Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil an Roinn Airgeadais ag cur dallamullóg ar an Aire. Dúirt sé féin go raibh a fhios aige go mbeadh fíor-chaoin fáilte ag an Dáil roimh Mheastachán sa mbreis. Bheadh, i gcónaí, gan amhras, mar is cuma le aon Teachta, ba mhaith leo airgead a chaitheamh ar gach rud is mian leo féin.

Gan amhras, beidh fíor-chaoin fáilte roimh an Aire má thagann sé thar n-ais le Meastachán sa mbreis. Ach tá an tAire Airgeadais ann agus an Rialtas agus mura bhfuil an tAire i ndon ar an gcéad dul síos, a bPríomh-Mheastacháin na bliana cé ar bith airgead a theastaíons uaidh a fháil i gcóir tithe nó déantús nó aon rud eile, sílim nach mbeidh an cás chomh láidir aige dul thar n-ais, nuair a bheas an Príomh-Mheastachtán ídithe, ag iarraidh a thuilleadh airgid a fháil i rith na bliana. D'fhéadfadh an tAire Airgeadais a rá leis: "Tá an méid sin faighte agat agus sin an méid atá le fáil agat; ní féidir leat teacht ar ais agus carn mór airgid d'fháil, mar ní raibh sé sna cúnntaisí." Sin é an rud a tharlaíos.

Tá cuid de na háiteanna is measa, ó thaobh tithe, sa nGaeltacht. Tá áiteanna i dTír Chonaill, tá eastát ansin sna Ros, agus tá an scéal chomh dona gur cheap Coimisiún na Talún nárbh fhiú airgead a chaitheamh ar thithe nua, mar ní raibh de luachail ag an bpaiste talún ach 10/- go dtí 30/-. Tá na céadta—agus béidir go bhful na mílte—tithe mar sin ann, gidh go bhfuil Airí eile ag dul thart ar fud na tíre ag caint faoi "direct labour" agus scéimeanna anseo agus ansúd, ar siúl acu sa gcontae seo, go bhfuil na daoine níos díograsaí, níos neamhspleái, agus b'fhéidir níos sásta a gcion féin a dhéanamh má gheibheann siad cúnamh réasúnta ón Rialtas, Táimid chomh mór chun deiridh anois agus bhíomar le linn an chogaidh. Níl faic nua dá dhéanamh agua níl coiscéim ar aghaidh déanta againn. Is dóigh liomsa go bhfuil an scéal go han-dona ar fad. Tá an duine atá i mbun an Marshall Plan sa tír seo ag moladh dúinn uisce beatha agus Belleek ware agus rudaí eile a chur go dtí Meiricá. Ag an am céanna, níl oiread muiníne againn as déantús an bhréidín agus, déantúis eile sa leabhar seo faoi Bhrainse na Gaeltachta, go bhfuilimid sásta an méid airgid a theastaíos a chaitheamh chun athchóir, más gá, a chur ar an scéim ar fad, ionas go bhféadfaidh na déantúis bheith páirteach i cibé plean a bheas ar siúl. Tá na Meireacánaigh lán-tsásta cúnamh a thabhairt, agus tá na daóine i Meiricá a tháinig on tír seo ar dtús, nó a síol, níos tábhachtaí, níos líonmhaire agus níos fearr ná mar bhí riamh. Tá na milliúin dollaeraí le caitheamh, deireann an Taidhleoir Meireacánach, nó a fhear ionaid, sa tír seo, má thugaimid faoi chuairteoirí a mhealladh chugainn.

Má tá suim againn sa nGaeltacht, agus má táimíd ag iarraidh an scéim seo na Gaeltachta a bhí i bhfeidhm ag sean-Rialtas Shasana caithfimid teacht i gcabhair orthu. Isé sean-Rialtas Shasana agus Arthur James Balfour agus a leithéid, a chur na ranganna sin ar bun ar dtús, faoi Bhord na gCeantar Cúng. Sa gcéad Chogadh Mór do thit na déantúis sin ar lár agus cuireadh cosc an-mhór leis an obair, mar gheall ar dheactrachtaí iar-chogaidh. Nuair a tháinig an Rialtas Gaelach isteach, tóg siad an rud idir lámha arís, faoi Choimisiún na Gaeltachta, agus rinne siad a lán, mar chuir an Teachta Mac Phaídín i gcuimhne dúinn, agus tá súil agam nuair a bheas sé ag freagairt go mbeidh an tAire i ndon níos mó dochais a thabhairt dúinn ná mar thug sé ar dtús mar gan amhras cuirfidh an Meastachán seo droch-mhisneach ar éinne a bhfuil suim aige sa scéim.

Mr. Blowick

Judging by most of the speeches made, I think there must be a good deal of misunderstanding in the House as to the real nature of the Gaeltacht Services; what they do, how they benefit the people, and how they work. The Gaeltacht Services division is unlike any other Government Department in the kind of work that it does. It is a section established a considerable number of years ago for the purpose of trying to assist the people in the Gaeltacht areas who, as some Deputy described it, are definitely overcrowded and for whom it was deemed necessary to establish small industries, cottage industries in most cases, if I may say so, so as to give them a chance to supplement their meagre earnings from the little bits of poor-quality land they own in most cases and also to develop from time to time if possible, and if a market could be found for them, new industries.

This Estimate is down by some £20,000. Let me say at the outset that that is not a reduction in the true sense of the word. I am sure Deputy Derrig and Deputy O'Grady realise exactly where the truth lies. There is only a small provision made for housing for this reason: that the Gaeltacht Housing Bill, which was recently passed by the House, was just being enacted at the time the Estimates were being prepared. The Supplementary Estimate of between £15,000 and £16,000, which I shall be bringing in in a very short time to meet the expenses arising out of the Bill for housing purposes, will bring this Estimate up to what it was last year.

I deliberately painted a rather gloomy picture in my opening speech. I believe in telling the truth, whether it is for me or against me, and letting the House know exactly how things stand. Perhaps I may be able to dwell on the brighter side of the situation now after I have heard the speeches made by Deputies. Deputy Breslin made a very helpful speech, or at least a moderate speech. Like Deputy MacFadden, Deputy Mongan, and others, who come from the Gaeltacht, he probably knows the difficulties of the situation.

The biggest industry which the Gaeltacht Services deal with and the one which was the greatest boon to the people of the Gaeltacht areas is the homespun industry. Next to that comes the millspun tweed industry. Both of these industries have fallen on very evil days. The slump which has existed now for some 18 to 20 months was in full force at the time I took over the Department of Lands 14 or 15 months ago. As a matter of fact, in the previous September or October all sales of homespun fell through. There was an absolute slump. The result is that to-day we have something like 120,000 yards of good quality homespun on hands. I think it was Deputy O'Grady who commented on the fact that another Deputy some years back tried to belittle the quality of our homespun. As I say, we have 120,000 yards of very good quality homespun at present and that has been there since about six or eight months before I took office. Although the whole energy of the Department has been directed towards trying to find a market or sale for it in practically every country in the world, they have failed completely. It is left on our hands and we cannot sell it.

Deputies have called attention to the fact that the Estimate is down by £20,000. I could have brought in a very misleading Estimate if I wanted to. As Deputy Derrig knows, under the various sub-heads I could have asked the House for money that I knew in my heart would not be spent and which would be merely a sop to Deputies and to people in the country. What those engaged in this industry want is work and sale for their products. We cannot get a sale for their products. There is no market for homespun in the world.

Some Deputies suggested that the stopping of the parcel post trade to England is the cause of the trouble. It contributed somewhat to it. But let no one think that the whole output of the homespun industry in the Gaeltacht could be absorbed by the parcel post trade to England. We would have to establish a separate Post Office staff to deal with it if that were the case. When I tell the House that we have some 120,000 yards of homespun on hands which we cannot sell, that will show that anyone who thinks that the output of that industry can be disposed of by a parcel post trade is very foolish. I admit that the stoppage of the postal trade to England contributed somewhat towards the slump. But that was not due to the trade agreement. England is free and so are we free to stop any particular kind of parcel from going through postal channels. England was determined to stop that postal trade and the reason is not far to seek. Messrs. Harris, of Scotland, who are our most serious competitors in this line, went into action immediately after the European war ceased and simply flooded the whole English market with a better quality of homespun than we had on hands at that time; not a better quality than we can turn out, but a better quality than we had on hands at that time and had to offer for sale. Thereupon, the sale of our homespun ceased.

The Gaeltarra Éireann agents have tried every possible market in Europe. They are exploring the United States at the present time. I do not want to mislead anyone. I do not think that there is any hope in the near future or even in the distant future of disposing of the 120,000 yards of excellent homespun which we have there in the Gaeltarra Éireann depot. There are four floors in that building and it is crammed from cellar to roof with the best quality of material which we cannot sell. The same thing applies to the millspun tweed. I would have liked some Deputies to put forward suggestions which would help me in regard to that matter. I would not ask them to find a market for the material; as the experts have already failed to find one. France does not want it, Italy does not want it, Belgium does not want it, and England does not want it because, as I said, England is flooded out with Harris tweed of a better quality than this homespun. There may be some opening—I do not want anyone to pin their hopes on this—in the United States; I hope there is. So far we have met with rebuff after rebuff to such an extent that I am loath even to hope for a market in the United States for the vast quantity of material we have on hands.

Not alone for the homespun and millspun industries, but for the toy industry and various other branches of industry in the Gaeltacht we have £94,000 worth of raw material on hands to put the workers at work if there is a market for the products which they produce out of that material. It is like the turf problem last year when there were large dumps of turf in the Phoenix Park and coal was coming in. Did anyone suggest last year that we should keep on producing turf for which there was no market? I am in the same position in connection with the homespun tweed industry. Am I to ask the weavers in Donegal, Clare, Connemara and Kerry to produce homespun tweed and ask the taxpayers to pay for it when there is no market for the 120,000 yards which we have? If somebody puts down a motion that, regardless of what it costs taxpayers, I should instruct the homespun weavers to go ahead producing material even though there is no market and no likelihood of a market for what they produce, that would be all right. But I could not take the responsibility of doing that. If the House takes the responsibility, well and good.

The same thing applies to the millspun tweed industry. There may be some hope for that industry by turning out a better quality material than we could turn out during the war. We can turn out first-class quality material. We shall try to do that and we are working very carefully along these lines to develop it.

Someone said that those engaged in these industries are emigrating. No one regrets more than I do the fact that anyone would leave the country, especially skilled workers. These are people who possess a degree of skill that it takes years to acquire. Their skill and their expert handling of material is something that has come down to them through their families for generations. I do not want to see one of them leaving the country.

Deputy O'Grady mentioned the kelp industry. It was revived temporarily during the war as a source of supply of potash. The kelp that was available 15 or 18 years ago was a very valuable source of iodine, but when somebody discovered huge deposits of material in the form of Chilean nitrates, at a cheaper price, that finished the kelp industry. As I have said, it was revived temporarily during the war. The moment potash came on the market after the war there was no further demand for the kelp. That represents the gloomy side of the picture. I am glad to say, however, that a new and unexpected market has now come along for another type of seaweed. I refer to searods. I hope that, during the coming season, the people along our coasts will gather every ounce of searods they can. Yesterday, I introduced the Alginate Industries Bill. It will put this industry in Connemara on a firm and sound footing. The drying and the grinding of these searods for the production of alginate acid will provide a better industry for the people than ever the kelp did. The kelp industry was killed the moment potash became available. This new industry will provide an outlet for the people along the coasts who heretofore made a living from gathering kelp. The searods industry is going to be something bigger and better. There is no use in asking the people along the coast to gather kelp because there is no market for it.

A good deal has been said about the Gaeltacht Housing Act. It has been said that no provision is made for Gaeltacht houses. I will be introducing a Supplementary Estimate in connection with that. I regret that some Deputies should have chosen to mislead their own people, the very people whom the Act was intended to benefit. I regret that they should have chosen deliberately to mislead those people and to create doubts in their minds as to the wisdom of accepting a grant or of applying for a grant. A few days after the Bill was signed by the President and became law a Galway Deputy wrote to a newspaper along these lines. He said it was stated at an interview that

"houses built under the proposed new Act will be free of rates for 20 years. This is not so."

That is so. The house will carry whatever rate was on the old house which the new one is intended to replace.

Mr. Bartley

The impression conveyed was that they would not be free of rates.

Mr. Blowick

Deputy Bartley should try and find other people to make ducks and drakes of than the poor people the Act is intended to benefit. I said that I wanted to have that Act as free as possible from red tape and trappings. The Deputy wrote a letter to the Connacht Tríbune on the 5th March that was deliberately intended to convey the impression to the people of the Gaeltacht that the Act was not a good one. I am giving £25 of a grant more than they got from the Department of Local Government, and the very same conditions apply as have applied under previous Gaeltacht Housing Acts. These houses will only carry whatever rate the old houses they are intended to replace carried.

Mr. Bartley

The statement that I contradicted is not the statement the Minister has made.

Mr. Blowick

I am quoting from your own letter:—

"This rating privilege will be somewhat adversely affected by a proposal in the present Bill to withdraw the grants and loans for the provision of henhouses and piggeries."

These people may not be as well informed as people living near a town, but I think they are the very last class that any Deputy, particularly a public man, should practise little tricks on.

Mr. Bartley

Do you say that they will be free of all rates for 20 years?

Mr. Blowick

They will only carry whatever rate the old houses they are intended to replace carried.

Mr. Bartley

That is the point I wanted to bring home.

Mr. Blowick

I want the people there to benefit under this new Act and hence I would expect more assistance and help from a Deputy from the Gaeltacht than that. I do not want to deal with the matter further, but I could not allow it go unanswered.

Mr. Bartley

You are misrepresenting what I said.

Mr. Blowick

I would like to say this: that the Department of Lands is peculiarly suited for the relief of these people. We have, first of all, the Land Commission; secondly, the Forestry Department, and, thirdly, the Gaeltacht Services. I am anxious to develop all these industries and provide a livelihood for the people in spinning, making toys, in weaving and all the rest of it. When the bottom falls out of a market for the materials we are producing we have to try and find an alternative. I can say that we are straining every possible nerve to provide alternative industries. You may have the sudden over-night collapse of some particular market. That occurred when the last European war came to an end. When a market collapses suddenly like that you cannot provide an alternative industry over-night. It takes time. In the case of knitting machines, for example, women and girls have to adapt themselves to their use. That takes time. The garments or articles they turn out at first may not be perfect. No one could expect that. A man, for example, who had been trained to some other form of employment and had to turn to do the work of a blacksmith or to work on land in which he had no experience could not be expected to prove expert at the start. No one would expect good results from him.

We are making experiments with carpet making. We are feeling our way. When the homespun tweed industry failed we tried every possible means of finding an alternative market. Deputy Brady finds fault with us because we are spending £7,000 on advertising as against £2,000 previously. The object of that is to try to get a market for the £101,000 of stuff we have on hands. We want to see if we can sell it.

Mr. B. Brady

I did not mention advertising.

Mr. Blowick

The Deputy grumbled about the cost of the depôt. We have that amount of finished material on hands. It is of first-class quality, but we have failed to sell it. There is a little glimmer of hope at the present time.

Since I introduced the Gaeltacht Estimate last year, I have been hoping that every time one of our agents explored a new market he would have good news for me, but in every instance it was a case of "No, we do not want it." We have offered the material at a ridiculously low price, a price even less than what it cost to produce, but even then we could not sell it.

Deputy Con Lehane felt dissatisfied with the whole situation. He cannot be more dissatisfied than I am. He asked if a Supplementary Estimate was needed would it be forthcoming. Any Supplementary Estimate that I may need for that purpose will be forthcoming. It has been sniggered and sneered at that the Minister for Lands wants to save on the Gaeltacht. Deputy Derrig was the Minister for Lands for a period. He knows that the Department of Finance in the Cumann na hGaedheal, the Fianna Fáil and the present days has not made the slightest effort to save on the Gaeltacht Services. We have no intention of trying to save on the very poorest of our people, people for whom a special service was established in order to come to their rescue.

Reference was made to the dropping of the turf industry. The dropping of the turf industry was a fearful blow in some areas—in Donegal, Mayo and Galway. It was a fearful blow to those areas when the coal came in. Whatever little upset was caused by the stoppage of the turf industry, it is somewhat akin to this. There was no market for turf, and why should we go ahead producing something for which there was no market? I cannot ask the weavers in Donegal, because it is there the largest number are, to produce a material for which there is no market, and no hope of a market.

I realise that I have painted a gloomy picture. I want to inform the House that any Supplementary Estimate I may need will be forthcoming in the shortest possible time. I have that assurance from the Minister for Finance. I hope the occasion will arise soon when I shall have to come here for a big Supplementary Estimate. I know the people who are affected quite well—they are within eight or ten miles from my own place. We are endeavouring to start new industries. We are trying to get one going at Tourmakeady. We have plenty of machinery. Indeed, there is some of it idle. We do not need to purchase new machinery.

We have been asked about the materials in our possession. We have about £93,000 worth on hands and there is no hope of getting rid of the finished articles. I could have asked for money for machinery, but that would be rather misleading the House. If I asked for more money Deputies would imagine everything was all right, but Deputies must remember that I would have to come here next year and say: "I asked you for £100,000 but I could spend only £10,000." I do not believe in that nonsense. I believe that Deputies who are most critical of myself and of the Department, when they know the truth, will be prepared to help me, and I shall be thankful if they do.

Mr. C. Lehane

Can I take it from what the Minister says that shortage of money, or any money difficulty, will not prevent the Minister coming to the House and asking it to vote moneys in order to provide for development in the Gaeltacht?

Mr. Blowick

Definitely not. Money is no trouble in this case. The trouble is that we have certain little industries going and, if we except the knitwear and toys, there is not a good market for what is produced. These two branches are going well; there is a first-class market for them. There are plenty of girls in various centres making a nice living out of these industries. These two things are going well because there is a demand for them. As regards the homespuns and mill-spuns, the bottom has completely fallen out of the market for them. We have offered them at a price that I would be ashamed to mention, but still we cannot get them taken. I believe if we offered them for nothing they would not be taken.

It is a strange situation. I cannot understand why, immediately after a world shortage of clothing material, some country does not want our products, even at the ridiculously low prices we are asking. We have tried to drive trade bargains with other countries. We have even tried to get them to take our stuff in exchange for materials that we would purchase from them, but they will not have it. They will even forgo selling their own material rather than enter into such a bargain. That has happened in one instance.

There have been quite a lot of points raised, but I do not intend to follow them all up. Deputy Brady asked that we should continue to purchase certain millspun material under some Emergency Powers Order. Any contract that Gaeltarra Éireann enters into with a particular factory will be honoured. Where we give a contract we will take the responsibility. We will purchase whether there is a sale for it or not; we will honour our bond and purchase from them. Deputy Brady's mind can rest assured in that regard.

It is not a pleasing outlook, but I thought it best to let the House and the country know how things stand rather than polish or paint it up and present a false picture. There is not a market for our stuff and I do not see much hope for a market. Perhaps the sun may burst through the clouds sooner than we expect; perhaps our agents will be able to find a market. If they do, no one will be as proud as I will be.

As regards the cutting down of the Estimate, the intention was merely to give the House a true picture of the situation. I could have presented an Estimate for £100,000 more, but that would be merely putting figures on paper to deceive the House. I would have to come here next year and Deputies would probably ask me "You sought £50,000 on one sub-head last year and you spent only £10,000 and we would like to know the cause." I do not believe in adopting underhand tactics or any subterfuge of that kind.

We have not cut down the Estimate for reasons of economy. We have in our possession machinery that is not being worked. We have at least 16 knitting machines on hands. We hppe to have some of them operating in Tourmakeady one of these days. We also hope to have some operating in the vocational schools that the Minister has offered me in Achill. I hope to have them operating on some material for which we will find a market. There is a lump of unsold stuff there but nothing can be done about it until the whole market position changes. I hope that will be soon. During the year Deputy MacFadden and Deputy Mongan were after me frequently asking was there any hope, but I could only answer "No".

I want to pay a high compliment to our agents, who have left no stone unturned. They have travelled by air to every country in Europe and they have gone even to the United States trying to get a market. On every possible occasion that we could push our wares we did so. The whole thing can be summed up in this sentence: "Our goods are not wanted at the moment." I hope, before we find it necessary to come here with a Supplementary Estimate, that the scene will be brighter for homespuns and mill-spuns.

Someone mentioned that there was an increase in one sub-head for fuel. That is because we have to provide a turf reserve. We burn turf in every instance to provide power and heat. Largely because of the vagaries of the weather, we also have to keep a reserve of crude oil on hands so that if a bad summer comes we will not be caught without proper fuel. That is the reason for the increase with regard to fuel.

Mr. Derrig

Did the Minister, during his statement, give a figure as regards the Supplementary Estimate that he thinks he may require?

Mr. Blowick

For what?

Mr. Derrig

For housing.

Mr. Blowick

It is £15,000 to £16,000

Mr. Derrig

That does not seem to be very much in comparison with the economies that are being made under this Vote.

Mr. Blowick

I told you there are no economies being made under this Estimate, and there is no wish to make them.

Mr. Derrig

There is a saving.

Mr. Blowick

Very good. Perhaps some time later there will be another Minister here who will choose to bluff the House, presenting an inflated Estimate and not giving a true picture at all. I do not believe in that.

Mr. Derrig

A certain amount is being allocated for the Gaeltacht. Only a small fraction of the total amount is appropriated for different Government services and the Minister has not indicated what quid pro quo the Gaeltacht is likely to get in exchange for this saving or economy, or whatever he may wish to call it. The fact is that this service is being cut down and in all future years it will be cut down just the same, in my opinion. The tendency will be to look upon this, if it is carried through the House now, as a year in which a saving or an economy was effected and that will be taken as the basis for all future years. The Minister asked me as a former Minister did I not agree that the Minister for Finance did not interfere. I could not say that the Minister for Finance did not interfere. I take the Minister for Finance to be the guardian, as has been stated before from these benches, of the taxpayer. It is his duty to see that the money is expended properly. I can have no quarrel with the Minister for Finance in carrying out his duty as he thinks right and proper. But the point is—and I tried to explain it earlier when, I was speaking — that this rural industry service is not independent. It is not like the Electricity Supply Board, which can raise money in its own particular way.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not like to interrupt the Deputy. I am giving him a chance to reply, but I hope he will not extend his reply too far.

Mr. Derrig

If you will allow me as a former Minister. There are Deputies who have come newly into this House and who are not familiar with the way in which this industries branch is run. Perhaps they will forgive me for giving my opinion which, as a former Minister, may be of some value to them irrespective of whether they agree with it or not.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister has been called on to conclude and I am endeavouring to keep the debate within the rules.

Mr. Derrig

In my opinion the Minister for Finance can interfere and can prevent the Gaeltacht industries from functioning efficiently in the way in which those in charge of Gaeltacht industries may wish them to function. That is my opinion.

Mr. Blowick

Yes, provided the Minister for Finance had a Minister for Lands who will agree to such a dastardly act.

Mr. Derrig

It is a question "if the cap fits".

Mr. Blowick

If the Deputy has nothing helpful to put forward I do not see where this is leading. I have given a frank and candid explanation of the entire situation. I have painted the picture. Perhaps the picture is not too bright, but it was no pleasure to me to come in here and paint a gloomy picture because there was no market for our stuff. I could have made much more capital out of the fact that we have £93,000 worth of raw material on hands which is not accounted for at all in the Vote. Yet the Deputy endeavours to show that there has been an economy in this Department. There has been no economy. I have a perfectly free hand. I shall have a free hand in the future. Does that reassure the Deputy? As an ex-Minister and as one who was himself in charge of this particular Department on one occasion I do not think it is fitting that he should mislead the. House or misrepresent the facts. That is not worthy of the Deputy and it certainly does not reflect any great credit upon him as an erstwhile Minister.

Mr. Derrig

We are not satisfied that these reductions are justified.

Mr. Blowick

I take it that the Deputy believes me when I tell him that we have £120,000 worth of one kind of material and £70,000 worth of another kind of material for which we cannot find a market. Would the Deputy help us to dispose of that or can he give me some hint as to an alternative industry which would provide work for the young people in these areas? If he does that I can assure him that I shall come into the House very quickly with a Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. P.J. Burke

To what extent is the trade agreement with Great Britain responsible for the collapse in the tweed industry?

Mr. S. Collins

To no extent.

Mr. Blowick

Had the Deputy been here during the debate and had he taken the slightest interest in the debate he would not now propound that question. He was not here when I was opening; he did not come in during the progress of the debate; and he was not here while I was concluding. He wobbles into the House now and planks himself down in a seat almost as if someone threw a sack of potatoes into it. He then calmly asks a question—the daftest question I have ever heard in my life.

Mr. Bartley

Could the Minister say if it is not possible for his Department to spend more than £10,000 on housing in the current financial year?

Mr. Blowick

Already something like 1,000 applications for new houses have come in under the new Bill in the current financial year. In every one of these grants will be made. In a few days I shall be asking for a Supplementary Estimate of round about £15,000 or £16,000 for the same purpose. When that runs out I shall ask for more.

Mr. Bartley

Will that £15,000 be spent entirely on grants?

Mr. Blowick

It will meet expenses arising out of the matter. There will be some inspectors, naturally, to ensure that the houses are built.

Mr. Bartley

That is a programme, then, of about 30 or 45 houses for the coming year.

Mr. Blowick

What exactly does the Deputy mean? How does the Deputy know how many houses will be built? Already there are 1,000 applications. There will be no delay in making the grants available and no delay will be tolerated in the construction of the houses provided the materials are available.

Mr. Bartley

I saw 2,000 applications and the houses are not built yet.

Mr. Blowick

If I want £50,000 of a Supplementary Estimate it will have to be provided for this purpose and the Minister for Finance cannot deny it because the Act is there.

Mr. Bartley

I want to know how many will be built.

Mr. P.J. Burke

It is an emigrant ship.

Mr. Blowick

You should apply some common sense to the matter.

Question put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 50; Níl, 62.

Tá

• Aiken, Frank.
• Allen, Den's.
• Bartley, Gerald.
• Beegan, Patrick.
• Blaney, Neal T.
• Boland, Gerald.
• Brady, Brian.
• Brady, Seán.
• Breathnach, Cormac.
• Brennan, Thomas.
• Breslin, Cormac.
• Briscoe, Robert.
• Gilbride, Eugene.
• Harris, Thomas.
• Kennedy, Michael J.
• Kilroy, James.
• Lahiffe, Robert.
• Lemass, Seán F.
• Little, Patrick J.
• Lydon, Michael F.
• Lynch, John.
• McCann, John.
• McEllistrim, Thomas.
• MacEntee, Seán.
• Maguire, Patrick J.
• Burke, Patrick.
• Butler, Bernard.
• Carter, Thomas.
• Childers, Erskine H.
• Colley, Harry.
• Collins, James J.
• Crowley, Honor Mary.
• Davern, Michael J.
• Derrig, Thomas.
• De Valera, Eamon.
• De Valera, Vivion.
• Flynn, Stephen.
• Moran, Michael.
• O Briain, Donnchadh.
• O'Grady, Seán.
• O'Reilly, Matthew.
• O'Rourke, Daniel.
• Rice, Bridget M.
• Ruttledge, Patrick J.
• Ryan, James.
• Ryan, Mary B.
• Ryan, Robert.
• Smith, Patrick.
• Traynor, Oscar.
• Walsh, Thomas.

Níl

• Belton, John.
• Blowick, Joseph.
• Browne, Noel C.
• Browne, Patrick.
• Byrne, Alfred.
• Byrne, Alfred Patrick.
• Coburn, James.
• Cogan, Patrick.
• Collins, Seán.
• Commons, Bernard.
• Corish, Brendan.
• Cosgrave, Liam.
• Costello, John A.
• Cowan, Peadar.
• Davin, William.
• Desmond, Daniel.
• Dockrell, Maurice E.
• Donnellan, Michael.
• Dunne, Seán.
• Esmonde, Sir John L.
• Everett, James.
• Fagan, Charles.
• Finucane, Patrick.
• Fitzpatrick, Michael.
• Flynn, John.
• Giles, Patrick.
• Hogan, Patrick.
• Hughes, Joseph.
• Keyes, Michael.
• Kinane, Patrick.
• Kyne, Thomas A.
• Larkin, James.
• Lehane, Con.
• Lehane, Patrick D.
• McAuliffe, Patrick.
• MacEoin, Seán.
• McFadden, Michael Og.
• McGilligan, Patrick.
• McQuillan, John.
• Madden, David J.
• Mongan, Joseph W.
• Morrissey, Daniel.
• Mulcahy, Richard.
• Murphy, Timothy J.
• Norton, William.
• O'Higgins, Michael J.
• O'Higgins, Thomas F.
• O'Higgins, Thomas F. (Jun.)
• O'Leary, John.
• O'Sullivan, Martin.
• Palmer, Patrick W.
• Pattison, James P.
• Redmond, Bridget M.
• Reidy, James.
• Reynolds, Mary.
• Roddy, Joseph.
• Rooney, Eamonn.
• Sheehan, Michael.
• Sheldon, William A.W.
• Sweetman, Gerard.
• Timoney, John J.
• Tully, John.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Seosamh Ó Cinnéide and Donnchadh Ó Briain; Níl: Deputies Keyes and Sweetman.

Motion declared negatived.

Vote put and agreed to.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again to-day.