Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 May 1949

Vol. 115 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 13—General (Resumed).

Deputy Aiken, ex-Minister for Finance, in his provocative and rather sarcastic speech on the Budget, did not go so far as to suggest that the Budget was a vote-catching one. I think that is, generally speaking, the view of the members of the House and probably the view of a large section of the people. This Budget is supposed to be the foundation upon which the future financial policy of this Government is to be built and I propose to deal with its contents on that assumption.

It is sound, because it has saved millions in the shape of wasteful expenditure and provides capital expenditure for the carrying out of national schemes of a productive and profitable kind. In saying that, I disagree to a certain extent with the methods adopted by the Minister for Finance in the way in which he proposes to raise certain moneys and also, to some extent, in the method of allocating the moneys which have been set aside for the relief of income-tax payers.

If I had £1,000,000 at my disposal for the purpose of relieving the most deserving section of income-tax payers, I certainly would not reduce the standard rate of income-tax in the way the Minister proposes to do. I would prefer —and I make this suggestion to the Minister for his consideration if not on this certainly on some future occasion—to allocate that £1,000,000 for the purpose of raising the personal allowance of those in that very large section of income-tax payers who did not receive the consideration they were entitled to either during or since the emergency. If we assume, and I think the Minister for Finance will not disagree with me on this, that the pre-war pound has to-day only a purchasing value of ten shillings, then I think some more generous consideration should have been given to the single income-tax payer, and particularly to the married man who has to carry on under considerable difficulties, by way of increasing the personal allowance. If, for the sake of argument, we assume that in the financial year 1939—that is the year ending on the 6th April, 1940— a single income-tax payer had a salary of £200 a year which could hardly be regarded as an excessive figure even in pre-war days, he would be liable to the payment of £5 10s. od. a year in income-tax. His personal allowance then was £120, while the standard rate of income-tax at that period was 5/6 in the £.

If we further assume, for the sake of argument, and in doing so I do not think we are far wrong, that his salary to-day is £400 a year, with a personal allowance of £140, he is liable for the payment of £29 5s. in income-tax, the tax being at the rate of 6/6 in the £. The point I want to put to the Minister is that, while the salary of that single income-tax payer has increased by 100 per cent. since 1939, the increase as regards his income-tax payment has gone up by 432 per cent. If the Minister accepts my figures in this case, I suggest there is something in it for his sympathetic consideration. If he cannot do anything in this Budget for that income-tax payer, I suggest to him that, when he has money at his disposal, he should give him some further relief.

Take the case of the married man who is in a much more precarious position. Let us assume that in 1939 he had a salary of £200 a year; his personal allowance as a married man was £220 a year, while his liability for income-tax in that year was nil. If we further assume that his salary has since been increased to £400 a year— we know that his personal allowance to-day is £260 a year—he is liable for the payment to-day of £9 15s. a year in income-tax, even though the purchasing value of the pre-war £ is only 10/- to-day. I think that, apart from the figures which I have given, the personal allowances in the case of income-tax payers should be increased. I am putting it mildly when I say that there has been considerable disappointment amongst a large section of income-tax payers by reason of the fact that the Minister has not seen fit to increase the personal allowance.

I do not think I am wrong in suggesting—if I am I will be glad if the Minister will correct me—that a very high percentage of the £886,000 which the Minister proposes to use for the purpose of reducing the standard rate of income-tax by 6d. in the £ is going to find its way into the pockets of industrialists and others who, in the ordinary course, would be liable for the payment of excess profits tax. In my opinion it is wrong that any portion of the £886,000 should find its way back into the pockets of these people. The Minister has the figures at his disposal, and if I am wrong in what I have said, then I should like to hear from him when replying what percentage of that £886,000 will find its way back into the pockets of single income-tax payers as against industrialists or those liable for the payment of excess profits tax. In other words, will he tell us what percentage of this sum will go to the ordinary investor as against the individual income-tax payer? If nothing can be done in this Budget to remedy the alleged injustice which is being done to the individual income-tax payer, I hope that in next year's Budget the Minister will give these matters more favourable consideration than he has done under his present proposals.

There is also a proposal to put a tax on dances. According to the figures circulated by the Minister, this tax is estimated to bring in £110,000 a year of additional income. This tax on dances was abolished, I believe, as a result of the strong pressure brought to bear on the Minister for Finance of the day in 1946 by the Fianna Fáil clubs. There is not a shadow of doubt that a great deal of commotion was created in the country at that time by the Fianna Fáil organisation. I am rather surprised that the present Minister should have decided to restore this rather expensive type of tax. Its collection will involve a considerable amount of expense and inconvenience. I am sure the Minister knows that much better than I do. The excise officers who see after the collection of this tax are paid fairly high salaries. Their duty is to pay a visit to almost every dance that is held in the halls in rural Ireland as well, of course, as in the provincial towns and cities. It has been suggested to me by an individual who has control of a dance hall in my constituency that the Minister, instead of imposing this tax on dances, might consider having a fairly high licence fee in respect of the halls. This is an individual who runs dances for the purpose of making a profit for charitable organisations. The dances are run by the C.Y.M.S. for parochial and charitable purposes. If the suggestion that has been made to me were adopted by the Minister it would save the cost of the collection of this tax, which, as I have pointed out, must be considerable.

Why not control the dance prices?

Deputy O'Leary must know that, in some cases, the owners of these halls make fairly high charges for the use of the halls. I think that if a fairly reasonable stamp duty were imposed in the case of the licences held by the owners of the halls it would be much easier and less costly to collect than the present method of sending excise officers to these dance halls to see that the tax is being paid. As I have said, a high percentage of the £110,000 which the Minister estimates will come to him as a result of the imposition of this tax will go towards the cost of collection and supervision. In the case of dance halls in small towns and in provincial towns, Deputy O'Leary is probably aware that a fee of £20, £15 and in no case less than £10 is charged by the owners for the use of the halls. I think that the owners of the halls should pay a higher stamp duty. In that way, I think, the Minister would have a better chance of getting the income which he expects to get from this tax and at a lower cost of collection than the present method of taxation will give him.

There was considerable criticism—I have no objection to it—by Deputy Lemass, Deputy Aiken and Deputy Bartley regarding the failure of the Minister's colleague to produce the long-promised scheme of social security. On that I am prepared to take the word of the Minister for Social Welfare, and of the other Minister. I hope that when the scheme is published, if it is published in the next month or two, that there will be no objection to it when the White Paper on it is placed in the hands of Deputies.

Deputy Lemass and Deputy Aiken, in particular, know perfectly well— nobody knows it better than Deputy Aiken—that the preparation of such a scheme takes a considerable time and that the preliminary proposals in connection with a huge scheme of the kind have to be presented to the different Government Departments before they come before the Government for final consideration and sanction. I am hoping, as a result of the promises made publicly by the Minister for Social Welfare and his colleagues, that the scheme when it appears will be found to have been well worth waiting for and that there will be no disappointment on the part of Deputy Aiken, Deputy Lemass or their colleagues in the Opposition.

Deputy Bartley, who usually makes a most commonsense speech, was entirely wrong in his statement that the amending Bill brought in here by the Minister for Social Welfare last year to increase old age, blind and widows' and orphans' pensions did not give any more than 2/6 a week as a maximum to the average old age pensioner. The Deputy is entirely misinformed. The Deputy also suggested that the supplementary allowance, even in rural areas, was as high as 5/-per week, when the average Deputy knows well—they may be treated far more generously in his constituency than in mine—that the supplementary allowance in the rural areas does not exceed 2/6. Prior to the passage of this Bill, any person who wanted to get the supplementary allowance, whether 2/6 or 5/- had to go to the local home assistance officer and prove to his satisfaction that he was in a destitute state before becoming entitled to receive the small allowance.

I have gone to the trouble of looking up figures on this matter and I hope Deputy Bartley will accept them as being accurate. Before the introduction of the amending Bill, in December 1947, the numbers of old age pensioners in receipt of the maximum pension of 10/- per week was 128,930, and, in December, 1948, that number had increased to 131,901. Since the passage of the Bill, in February, 1949, the number was 152,873. Deputy Bartley ought to make a careful study of these figures which are to be found in the Official Reports of 29th March last. I have also examined the figures in relation to those in receipt of amounts under 10/- per week and I find that the number of persons in receipt of old age pensions of under 10/- per week prior to the passage of the Bill was as high as 20,638, whereas on the latest date for which the figures are available, 29th March last, the number was only 1,234, out of a total of 152,873. I hope that Deputy Bartley, who, I am sure, does not wish to misrepresent the meaning of the Bill, will study these figures and will not repeat here at any rate, the statement he made.

I understand from the Book of Estimates that the Act passed in the early part of 1948 gives to old age pensioners, blind pensioners, widows and orphans, together with the allowances provided in this Budget for pensioned teachers, resigned R.I.C., and all people who were previously living on low State allowances, increased amounts to the generous total of approximately £3,000,000. The people who are getting these increased allowances—I am not suggesting that they are in any way excessive—as compared with what they were getting during the régime of the previous Government know the value of them, and, as I know personally, in many cases fully appreciate what has been done. I am sure it is not the last word, so far as the Minister for Finance is concerned.

There is a very high percentage of our citizens, approximately 500,000 out of our small population of less than 3,000,000, living on low State allowances, such as old age pensions, blind pensions, widows' and orphans' pensions, unemployment insurance benefit and so on and it is my hope that, before this Minister and his Government go out of office at the end of their full period, they will make it possible under their scheme of social security for these people to get State allowances which will help them to keep body and soul together and not merely give them something, as is the case at present, which is insufficient to purchase the ordinary necessaries of life.

Deputy Bartley ignored the fact, although he was one of the Deputies who took part in the division, that, on 22nd October, 1947, a motion was submitted to the House by two Deputies then in opposition, a very mild motion, asking for a modification of the means test in regard to these pensions. The case then made by Deputy Ryan, who was Minister, against the motion was that the country could not afford it. He admitted during the discussion that it would involve expense to the extent of not more than £750,000—anything from £500,000 to £750,000. The Fianna Fáil Government turned down that modest motion and Deputy Bartley voted for its rejection. Then, when this Government came in, at a time when the financial position was much worse than it was then, they provided for the aged, the blind and the infirm, as well as for the pensioned teachers, a sum of approximately £3,000,000. These are figures to which the Deputy should give attention before coming in here to criticise the proposals in the Budget in relation to the payment of low State allowances. At the time the Fianna Fáil Government turned down this modest motion, they were squandering twice as much money on Aer Lingus. They were providing a subsidy for the wealthiest people in the world who wished to travel to and from this country at low, uneconomic rates, but they could not provide the small sum of £750,000 to supplement the miserable rates of pension then being paid to the aged, the blind and the infirm.

The Minister referred in his Budget statement to housing costs and said:—

"The measure of State aid can also be expressed by saying that, on average, roughly one-half (rather more for rural housing) of the capital cost of local authority housing is, in effect, borne ultimately by the State...."

I want to draw the Minister's attention to this aspect of the housing policy adopted by the Government. From personal knowledge and experience of what is going on in my constituency— I speak of my constituency and of no other—I know, as, I am sure, the late Minister knew and as the Minister for Finance knows, that in many areas tenders submitted by building contractors are regarded as excessive.

I am sure the Minister for Finance will agree that, while the tender prices submitted to a local authority are in some cases in my constituency as high as 500 per cent. and 600 per cent. over pre-war prices, there is something radically wrong in the state of affairs there. There is something more going to be heard about the cost of housing if the houses that are built at such excessive figures are to be let at an economic rent to the people best entitled to them. Take, for example, two towns in my constituency. Tenders were submitted in one town for houses to be built at a cost of £1,550 each and in another area, in the town of Birr, the original tender was for £1,760 for each house. The economic rent for these houses, if such a rent had to be charged and if these were the final cost of erection figures, would be in the region of 25/-. In one of these places the houses were to be built for slum dwellers. As Deputy O'Leary and other Deputies know, the slum dweller has a very low income. The proposed rent in one town is 14/8, excluding rates. Including rates it would be 17/6 a week. That type of house receives a very high subsidy from the Transition Development Fund and the ratepayers provide 6/- a week towards it.

The Minister and his colleagues in the Government will have to give serious consideration to their housing policy in so far as the cost of building houses for local authorities is concerned. Wherever it is possible for the Department of Local Government, with the consent of the Government, to organise a building scheme under the direct labour system, they will be doing valuable work because they will be helping to bring down the high tenders submitted by local contractors.

What is the justification—will any Deputy say there is any justification— from the point of view of increased rates of wages for the workers and increased prices for materials paid by contractors, for the 500 per cent. or 600 per cent. increase over pre-war prices? The rates of wages would not be increased by more than 100 per cent. —in some cases it is much less—over the pre-war figure. Let us assume that the cost of materials has increased by 300 per cent. over pre-war. How can you relate these figures to the 500 per cent. over the pre-war figures tendered by contractors to local authorities for the erection of houses for the poorest classes?

Houses built in provincial towns and villages are supposed to be constructed for people who are living in unhealthy, insanitary houses. They are supposed to be built for the slum-dwellers. How can any slum-dwellers pay even the subsidised rent, not to speak of the economic rent, if the present high building costs are allowed to continue? Deputy Brennan challenged me on this subject on another occasion. He said I was misrepresenting the position in regard to high building costs. Will he write to the town clerk of Birr or the clerk of the Portlaoighise Town Commissioners and ask for the prices that were submitted by local building contractors for houses in these towns?

Mr. Brennan

Were they 500 per cent. over pre-war?

Mr. Brennan

Perhaps they did not want the job.

Deputy Brennan can correct or contradict me on this matter if he wishes, but I should like to say that building contractors in the Midlands are part and parcel of an organised body and they consult each other before they tender. For instance, if one contractor wants to get a contract in Birr, he will arrange to leave another contract for a contractor in Portlaoighise. In that way they arrange things to suit themselves, but in the end it means placing a heavy burden on the ratepayers. Anything the Minister can do to stop that kind of thing will be appreciated by the community. Houses constructed at such excessive prices cannot be let at a rent that will suit the circumstances of the people for whom they are built. When these houses come to be let by the local authority it is usually found that the people for whom they are intended are not able to pay even the subsidised rent. I deeply regret that the State should be so heavily involved in these building costs and that the taxpayers' money should be used for the purpose of providing excessive profits for building contractors.

Mr. Brennan

Largely to meet the wages demand.

I hope the Deputy will follow me in this debate and if he will improve my education in these matters I will be grateful to him.

Maybe Deputy Brennan will talk about the excessive profits of building contractors.

I heard from the late Minister for Local Government that there was a good deal in that, and he did not make that statement to me without some reliable information and without having had the matter carefully examined. I think the taxpayers generally—some of them know that these things are going on—would not like to think that large slices of money are being used for the purpose of giving excessive profits to building contractors, who are fleecing the local ratepayers and prospective tenants.

Mr. Brennan

What about your direct labour scheme?

Wherever this kind of activity is visible the Government would be well advised to try to organise direct labour schemes and, if they do so, I think it can be proved that very good work will be done in the building of houses by direct labour. I am informed that in Wexford, Limerick, some portions of Cork and other areas houses erected by direct labour have been completed in a more satisfactory way and at a lower price than that quoted by building contractors in the same areas. Some 16 years ago I persuaded the then head of the Housing Department to experiment in utilising direct labour in the erection of houses in one town in my constituency. I asked him to arrange that half the houses would be built by direct labour and the other half under the contract system.

Perhaps the Deputy wil reserve some of his fire for the Local Government and the Industry and Commerce Estimates?

If you will allow me I will just make this reference to the matter and I will not repeat it.

Can other Deputies also refer to that matter?

If allowed. I am merely directing Deputy Davin's attention to the fact that he is going into matters more relevant to the Estimates.

You will agree that what I am saying has a bearing on the resolution under discussion. The Minister, in the course of his Budget statement, said that roughly one-half of the capital cost of local authority housing is, in effect, borne ultimately by the State, the other half being shared by the local authorities and the tenants of the houses in various proportions. If we can reduce the cost of building we will reduce the figures mentioned by the Minister in his Budget statement. If we can build houses cheaper by direct labour than by contract we will soon reach that desirable end.

I agree with the Minister for Finance in the concluding portion of his statement, where he said that rates and taxes are excessive. It is a very serious matter. There seems to be a wrong impression in the minds of some Deputies regarding the people who ultimately pay the rates. If you listen to a local shopkeeper, for instance, talking at local election times or during a general election you will come to the conclusion, if you do not know the facts, that he is the biggest ratepayer in the place and the only person being fleeced.

The shopkeepers as a class are the biggest body of unpaid rate collectors in the country. The shopkeeper charges every customer a fairly good profit over and above overhead charges, which include rates as well as wages, depreciation and everything else. It is ridiculous for the shopkeepers to suggest that they are hit hardest by increasing rates. The average farmer gets relief of rates. As far as I can gather, half the rates on agricultural housing is remitted by way of agricultural grant. So that this £7,000,000 or £8,000,000—it is an increasing figure, coming to a danger point—comes back in the main on the poorest section of the people, the man who owns the house built by the local authority, the average wage earner in the town or village, the agricultural labourer. I put it seriously to the Minister that, even apart from that, there must be some ceiling put on rates at an early date. I find it very hard to go into one county in my constituency this year and justify an increase of 4/1 in the rates in one year while at the same time certain State grants are being cut down. It is difficult to do it. I am sure the Minister could do it better than I.

The Minister's colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Mr. Dillon, went to Great Britain last year and made what I considered to be a very good bargain in regard to the price of live stock and agricultural produce, including eggs. If we could assume at that time that the cost of agricultural production would be stabilised, that agreement was very good and anyone on the left-hand side of the House could not say anything to the contrary but, if all the overhead charges of the agricultural producer, rates, wages, etc., continue to increase, the value of that agreement will be next to nil and will be on the wrong side of the balance sheet in four years' time.

The reason for the rapid increase in rates is that the Central Government are passing on to the local ratepayer increasing charges which might be rightly made a charge on the Central Fund. There are cases in my area at present where it is urgently necessary to carry out certain improvements in district hospitals and a sanatorium and the Minister for Health, with all the millions to his credit, wants to compel the local ratepayers to bear the total cost of reconstruction schemes for the district hospital and sanatorium. That money should come from the fund that has been raised and which is at the disposal of the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Health. These charges should not be piled on to the local ratepayer at a time when rates are being increased for other and, in some cases, local reasons. I do not think the Minister for Finance needs urging, because he has admitted that rates are excessive, but I would urge him to keep his eye on the rising rates and to realise that it is not the biggest or smallest shopkeeper or the farmers who are paying but the small man, who can very ill afford to do so, and who cannot pass on these charges.

In dealing with a Budget of this kind and the national income generally, it is admitted that there is a considerable amount of invisible income from the tourist traffic. I want very briefly to suggest that something better could be done to provide for an increase in the national revenue from this very desirable business. The Minister, in some cases, could make his own contribution. I read a book recently by a gentleman named S.P.B. Mais, who is supposed to be a commentator on the B.B.C. and who is a recognised journalist. The book is I Will Return to Ireland. Having read the book very carefully, my hope is that he will not return to Ireland until he makes up his mind to picture the country that has given him hospitality in a better way than he has done in this book.

Is this related to finance?

It is definitely related to facilities for tourists.

Is it a book on finance?

Definitely related to it, and related to the Department over which the Minister presides. The tourists should be given a good impression of the country at the ports, they should be provided with travelling and other facilities. This is related to the Minister's Department and to——

Industry and Commerce, for instance?

It is related to facilities in connection with transport of tourists on arrival in the country.

That is Industry and Commerce, is it not?

This relates to the Department of Finance.

What I am about to refer to is not transport.

I was mentioning what the Deputy had referred to. I have no idea of what he is about to refer to.

I could relate it to the lack of facilities for tourists. At any rate, the Minister for Finance is in charge of the Board of Works. Nearly ten years ago, according to my information, which is most reliable, the Board of Works were parties to an agreement for the improvement of the State harbour at Dún Laoghaire. There were three or four parties to that agreement, the Board of Works being the principal one. An understanding was arrived at.

That is for Estimates, surely.

The Board of Works were to make a contribution.

The improvement of the harbour in Dún Laoghaire would be for Estimates.

I wish to relate that, with your permission, to the description of that place provided by S.P.B. Mais in this famous book.

Criticism of such facilities is not a matter for the Minister for Finance, no matter how deeply the Deputy is interested.

If his description of the treatment of tourists were accepted as correct, there would be very few tourists coming to this country.

On a point of order. I would suggest that the Deputy should not quote something to go on the records of this House from some enemy of this country, as he tells us, who wrote a book about it.

He is not an enemy.

The Deputy is giving a free "ad" to a book.

Deputy Allen's is a sensible suggestion and I accept it. If I read the description, I would have to say I was sorry that it should go on records and that it was a misrepresentation to some extent of the actual position but, if the Minister has time——

I have read that book.

I would suggest that he should read page 22 of this book and the experience of this gentleman on the Sunday morning he arrived here.

The Deputy is persistently continuing on a matter that is not relevant. We are not interested in Mr. Mais.

If I were a much more eloquent and tricky debater, I could make it more relevant. The Minister in his Budget statement referred to the serious position of Córas Iompair Eireann, and the loss that has been incurred by the State in connection with the payment of interest on debentune shares. To my amazement he went on to say: "There is indeed a possibility, which I sincerely hope will be avoided, that the Exchequer may have to meet its guarantee of the principal of £1,150,000 of Córas Iompair Eireann debentures redeemable next January." That is a serious state of affairs. I suggest to Deputy Allen, since he is concerned with points of order, and to anybody else who follows me in this debate that that is a serious matter for Deputy Allen and for his colleagues who were responsible for forcing a general election on the country in 1944 in order to prop up a dictatorial system of transport, the only result of which was to bring the transport company to a state of bankruptcy.

Are we now going to have a debate on Córas Iompair Eireann?

I am entitled to refer to the matters dealt with by the Minister in his Budget statement. In relation to the tourist traffic, if proper facilities are to be provided for tourists and if it is the intention and the policy of the Minister and the Government to increase the invisible income of the country thereby, steps should be taken by the Government to instruct Córas Iompair Eireann to resume the system of through-fares which was in operation prior to the emergency. The suspension of through-fares and the suspension of certain transport facilities associated with them has caused considerable expense and untold inconvenience to tourists. I would urge upon the Minister the necessity for instructing Córas Iompair Eireann to resume the pre-emergency system of through-fares and the facilities associated with it. There is no doubt that that will contribute in large measure to the invisible income of the country from the tourist traffic.

We have just listened to the first speech from the Labour Benches on this Budget. We have heard now Deputy Davin's apology for the Budget. There were many things upon which Deputy Davin remained silent this afternoon. During the last 12 months and prior to that time we heard a good deal about excess profits tax and corporation profits tax from the present Government and its supporters. The Tánaiste told the country that steps should be taken to collect from the industrialists the huge profits they made during the emergency. This Budget is strangely silent on that matter.

On the matter of excess profits tax and corporation profits tax. There is even a reduction in the corporation profits tax.

You are mad to get after it, are you not?

The Minister himself made statements both here and in the Seanad on several occasions on that matter. He almost proposed to paint the country "red" in the steps he would take to extract from these usurers—as he called them—the big profits they made during the emergency. During the past year the Tánaiste told one particular audience that he proposed to see to it that these people would be put in the strongest jails in the country.

Perhaps they will be yet!

There are no proposals in this Budget statement as to any steps the Minister proposes to take. I am glad of that. The House is glad and the people are glad. Our Party is more than glad that the Government has at last wakened up to the fact that in the past 15 months they have seriously damaged the economy of this country because of the wild and reckless statements made by them. They have prevented the development of the country. They have frightened off many people who would have been prepared to engage in industry in this country. If there was nothing else in this Budget, the fact that the Government at last appreciates that these wild and foolish statements are damaging to the country would make it a good Budget. In that respect alone it is a good Budget. Last year Deputy Davin was very wroth and indignant because steps had not been taken to collect these mythical millions that were supposed to exist in the country. We are glad that in the coming year the country will be given a chance to develop and the people will no longer be scared by these wild and foolish statements and the frightening threats that were made.

We hear a good deal about the tourist traffic. Deputy Davin has an intimate knowledge of the tourist traffic and he has an intimate knowledge of its advantages to the country. Perhaps he had some influence over his colleagues during the past year. Clann na Poblachta and the Labour Party did more to injure the tourist traffic in the past than anybody else. Things had gone so far that people were ashamed to be seen coming out of hotels. Prior to the general election and during the election itself we had a most injurious and harmful campaign against the tourist industry. The Government realises that now. I hope that during the coming year there will be no more wild talk about tourists coming in and eating our food and about our hotels getting rations when nobody else could get them. It was said that becon could not be got anywhere except in the hotels.

Was that not true?

Deputy O'Leary had his opportunity and he should have said all he wanted to say then.

Aer Lingus was mentioned. I want to refer to the partial destruction of it by the Minister for Finance. That did much to injure the tourist industry. The few hundred thousand pounds that may have been saved by abandoning the transatlantic air service would have been repaid one hundredfold in a short period. Deputy Davin appreciates that quite well. In time I suppose the Parties on the Government Benches will all waken up and change their mind, as they have changed it on occasions throughout the past 12 months. In time this Government will be compelled to adopt the good, sound national policy of Fianna Fáil in its entirety. We often see advertisements in this city suggesting that people should change over to a certain type of bread. I think Deputies on the benches opposite might now justifiably wear a placard with the inscription: "Change over to Fianna Fáil." It is being done every day in the week.

Deputy Davin is doing well on it.

I am just wondering whether Deputy Davin and his colleagues are as satisfied with this Budget statement as they pretend.

I am not shouting about it.

I wonder if Deputy Davin and members of the Labour Party are satisfied with the reduction of £1,000,000 in income-tax while at the same time the Minister for Finance refuses to provide even the same amount of money in this Budget as was provided in last year's Budget and the previous year's Budget to give employment in rural areas. I refer to the cut in grants. Is it satisfactory to reduce income-tax by £1,000,000 and at the same time cut the road grants by £2,250,000, thus driving thousands of men out of employment and forcing them to take the emigrant ship? Is that a good Budget or is it not? It may be considered good to reduce the tax on wines. It may be justifiable and it may be necessary but it is not in the interests of the workers, the people whom Deputy Davin and his colleagues represent, the people whom the Tánaiste in the present Government should represent in that Government. Unemployment in rural areas, owing to the policy of the present Government was never known to be so high as it is at present and has been for some months past. Every rural Deputy cannot fail to notice that in travelling through his constituency. It is there; yet no effort was made in this Budget to provide relief in any way for it. There was not a single shilling provided in the Budget for the relief of unemployment, not even as much as was provided in previous years. Take the rural improvement schemes and the farm improvement schemes. We know that the farm building scheme was not put into operation last year. We have promises of it this year. We know what happened last year. It was held up until the month of August.

Did the Deputy refer to the rural improvement schemes?

That is not correct.

Every possible barrier is being put in the way of any scheme being carried out to my knowledge. I shall prove that to the Parliamentary Secretary if he wishes.

I can prove that in the eastern counties every possible obstacle is put in the way of any rural improvement scheme.

For example?

I shall give the examples later and I invite contradiction when the details are given to the Parliamentary Secretary. The Minister in the course of his statement referred also to the great prosperity amongst the farming community and he warned them not to expect any further increases in agricultural prices. He pointed out to them that prices had doubled as compared with pre-war but the Minister did not advert to the fact that during the past year many of the charges borne by agriculturists generally have gone up very considerably. He did not tell us that during the past year, owing to the action taken by the Minister for Social Welfare, taxation has gone up for farmers in the matter of national health insurance contributions, that employers and employees in this country are paying £1,000,000 more than they were 12 months ago towards national health insurance. That of course represents an increase in taxation. He did not tell us that he withdrew the subsidy formerly provided to reduce the price of artificial fertilisers with the result that the price of fertilisers has gone up by 10 to 15 per cent. He did not tell us that the price of binder twine, as fixed by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, to be used by the farmers in the coming harvest has also increased considerably. Neither did he tell us that all local authorities had increased their rates considerably this year. We have also increased agricultural wages, increased cost of petrol, increased cost of hardware, horse shoe nails and every single item which the farmer has to buy to provide against wear and tear.

You have horse shoe nails anyway.

They were always there, as far as it was possible to get them during the war. The price of all these things has gone up, representing increased costs for the farmer. On the other hand we had a number of reductions in the price of farmers' produce. The price of farmers' butter has decreased and the price of oats has gone down by 50 per cent. The price of potatoes and eggs has also shown a considerable reduction. He has, therefore, to meet increased taxation out of a reduced income. I wonder if the Minister for Finance, and his colleague the Minister for Agriculture, are satisfied with the present trend in that direction. Can the Minister hope for increased production from agriculture, with reduced price for agricultural produce and increasing cost of production? We all hope to see an increased agricultural output. It is absolutely necessary for the economy of the country and it is the desire of every section of the community to-day that agricultural output be increased but I am very much afraid that with the decrease in prices for agricultural produce and increasing costs of production, the trend will be in the other direction. There is one item of production that is increasing in price and that is live stock but whether the sky-high prices for live stock that prevail at the present time will be to the advantage of any long-term policy for agricultural is just a doubtful matter. The trend is away from tillage and towards live stock. Such a trend means that you are going to create more unemployment and that less people will be employed on the land. There is no doubt that a grass policy as against a mixed tillage and grass policy will mean that less people will be employed on the land. We see signs of that in all parts of the country at present. Unfortunately very many men who were employed in agriculture this time 12 months or two years ago have since lost their employment.

Is that because of the increase in wages?

Probably the increase in wages had something to do with it too. I would say that a farmer who finds that he can live easier by some other method of farming will take the easy road just as any other individual or section of the community will do so. The trend is in the wrong direction. It is serious and more than serious in regard to the economy and welfare of this country. Anybody who thinks we are going to get increased agricultural production under the present policy and under the present directive is making a very foolish mistake.

We have got the increase already.

We know the direction from which the increase is coming. Unfortunately, it is not worth talking about. You will get a natural increase in eggs, poultry and bacon—in these three items only—but I would point out that there is a limit in respect of these three items. If we have next year the bungling and the mistakes which were made by the Minister for Agriculture last year in regard to eggs it will be found that the increase we have been getting for the past few years will come to a sudden stop.

Deputy Smith knows nothing about that.

When Deputy Smith was Minister for Agriculture he did his duty well. I think there will be very few to question that statement. Deputy Davin talked a lot about house building and building costs. I am sure Deputy Davin knows that the greatest proportion of the increase in costs is caused by the increase in wages.

That is good.

Whether he objects to that or not we do not know.

Do you object?

Deputy Davin is a clever debater. He can be all things to all men at the same time. He objects to the increased costs. He tried to put all the onus for that on the contractor. He said the contractors were making huge fortunes. There has been no increase in the number of building contractors in this country. In fact, the difficulty is to find building contractors. If building contractors were earning the huge profits we have been hearing about I am sure we would have people tumbling over one another in their desire to become building contractors. Building costs are high. They are on an average, something between 130 per cent. and 140 to 145 per cent. over the pre-war costs. I know that because of the experience we have had in County Wexford. In that county the local authorities have been building on and off with varied results—not always satisfactory—by direct labour. Pre-war we had more direct labour operating in County Wexfod than we had contractors. No system is absolutely water-tight and we have had our ups and downs in regard to either system. A good honest contractor is invaluable. He will give good service and, very often, even better service than that which could be obtained under the system of direct labour. Many problems arise, such as the waste there might be on a direct labour scheme. Local authorities have found that by experience.

There is not much in this Budget in which the ordinary countryman is interested. To him it is a disappointing Budget and it is a disappointing Budget to the workers of this country. Workers will meet and say that the Minister for Finance could find money for the wine drinkers and the income-tax payers but that he could not find any money for the road workers. It is an extraordinary state of affairs. Deputy Davin and his colleagues, who are part and parcel of this Government, must be responsible for it because this is their Budget. How Deputy Davin and his colleagues are going to justify this Budget to the people who are being forced to emigrate I do not know. One of the great points of this inter-Party Government's programme is reduced taxation. They have not done so. This year taxation is £7,000,000 higher than it was in the last Budget, even taking into consideration the Supplementary Budget, which Fianna Fáil brought in. Seven million pounds more are going to be taken from the tax payers this year than was ever taken by Fianna Fáil.

A second great point in the interParty Government's programme was the relief of unemployment. Unemployment has steadily increased since this Government came into office. That is the yardstick by which their success or otherwise as a Government must be gauged. They are long enough in office now. If they had a policy to reduce unemployment in the country why have they not put it into operation? Unemployment has very seriously increased throughout the country and, what is worse, it has increased in rural areas amongst people who formerly were employed in carrying out tillage operations and in producing turf. It is amongst those classes you will find the biggest amount of unemployment at the present time.

A third great point in the inter-Party Government programme was in regard to emigration. There is no gainsaying the fact that emigration has increased. In these three respects this Government has been a total failure and the financial statement which was read by the Minister for Finance on Wednesday last will not solve any of these problems. Taxation has been increased by £7,000,000 or £8,000,000. There are no provisions in the Budget for the relief of unemployment or for the prevention of emigration. We are told that during the year the Minister for Agriculture is going to spend millions of pounds on land reclamation and that there will be much employment under this scheme.

I am afraid they will not be able to get men to work.

I am sure the Minister for Agriculture will tell us in his Estimate this week about this scheme which he intends to operate and about the millions of pounds he is going to spend on it. I do not propose to go into details now in that regard, although the scheme was adverted to by the Minister for Finance in his Budget statement. However, we hope that the scheme will provide employment. To tell the truth, I am doubtful about the whole matter. I would want to see it in operation for quite a long time before I would believe it. Central taxation will be increased under this scheme. Already the Minister has tried to set up all over this country a machine in the different towns and areas to operate the scheme—offices and so forth. If he does anything he will certainly have the extra staff to operate it. We know he will have that, but the question is whether he will have men employed in the bogs, in the fields and on the hillsides reclaiming the last. We are very doubtful about that aspect of the matter. It will take a long time to get such a scheme into full swing. It cannot be done overnight. You had the means at your disposal for providing employment, even employment of a temporary nature, for those men whom you deliberately threw out of work—those men who had been engaged on turf production and on the roads and who are now unemployed.

Did you not do that yourselves?

You had the means at your disposal—£2,250,000. Instead of cutting the road grants by £2,250,000 you should have provided much more than that amount. It is not in this Budget. This Budget holds out no hope whatever to the unemployed of this country. They are disappointed with it and they will be more disappointed as the year goes on.

Deputy Allen last year had the privilege of being able to criticise what I had said on the Budget because he followed immediately after me. This year I have the privilege and frankly I am disappointed only with one thing, that the Deputy put up no constructive argument to which there is any necessity to reply. I heard him and Deputy Aiken last week open on the excess corporation profits tax and the fact that there is no reference to it in this Budget. I would have thought that that would have been a subject that Deputy Aiken and the other speakers in Fianna Fáil would have kept a long, long way away from. What are the facts? The facts are, no matter what Deputies on the other side of the House may say, that the cost of living and the cost of products has not risen and you have had contemporaneous with that a very substantial increase to the people employed in industry. From where has that additional payment in the wages of those employed in industry come unless out of the excess profits that were being made by certain people while Fianna Fáil were still in power? There is no necessity now, no necessity whatever, to impose any excess tax because this Government has seen that as a result of its operations the excess profits are not there and that the large profits which were there during the days of Fianna Fáil are now being distributed among the workers in industry.

Where did the increase in income-tax come from?

Deputy Lemass was a long, long time on this side of the House and I should have thought that Deputy Lemass, during that long time on this side of the House, would at least have learned that one of the things about income-tax and the income-tax figures for last year was that income-tax is always chargeable on the profits of the preceding year were made while Deputy Lemass was over here.

Why has the Minister for Finance needed still more this year?

Certainly he has need for still more this year because we are going to see much greater productivity this year than during the days of Fianna Fáil. Those are the facts in regard to the excess corporation profits tax and anyone who is engaged in industry knows that they are the facts and that present profits which are being made, because of the redistribution carried through under the aegis of the present Government, are fair ones and that the large sums which were made in previous years are not now there. It is obvious to anybody who assesses the position carefully and fairly that industry is able to carry the burdens without an additional increase and proves rather than disproves the speeches made by the Minister for Finance.

Deputy Aiken also gave me a certain amount of research because at one stage of his speech he said that super-tax—that was the word he used—had been reduced. Of course that is untrue and I am surprised that the ex-Minister for Finance was not able more accurately to assess the meaning of the resolutions than to make a statement like that without any justification at all. Deputy Aiken followed that by something which I found very hard indeed to understand coming from him, an advocacy that not merely should the 5 per cent. stamp duty to Irish citizens be decreased but that the 25 per cent. imposition on foreign capital put on by him should be wiped away. I found it very hard indeed to understand the Deputy's mentality in putting up that argument to the House. The fact is that that decision was by and large one of the few things imposed by Fianna Fáil in that Budget with which I wholeheartedly agreed.

I want for a moment to digress from the question of the stamp duties in those Financial Resolutions into a somewhat more detailed matter. I think that the Minister between now and the time when the Finance Act comes along should consider making one further change with regard to the stamp duty imposed under Section 13 of the second Finance Act of 1947. In that section an exception was provided for certain inter vivos voluntary settlements where the beneficiaries, and all of them, were the children, brothers, sisters or children of brothers or sisters of the settlor. At that time in the other House I put forward—and I have no doubt that it was also put forward in this House— to the then Minister for Finance that it was a mistake to omit the wife of the settlor. Time has proved, I think, that the contentions put forward to that effect were right. In fact the Minister for Finance has lost a substantial amount of duty by the omission of the wife of the settlor, because the effect of the 5 per cent. duty on such settlements has been that practically none have been carried through. Any solicitor in any part of Ireland will verify what I say and will verify that what happens now is that when parties concerned hear that there is going to be a 5 per cent. duty and that the exception does not cover interests being given to the wife of the settlor they do not carry out the settlement and the Minister for Finance gets no duty whatever. I believe that to extend that remission of the old 1 per cent. duty to include the wife of the settlor would in fact not merely not cost the Minister money, but would mean that the Minister would get additional stamp duty because settlements would be effected whereas at the present time they are merely put aside as being too costly. As I understand the effect of the two stamp duty resolutions, they are that the flaw recently detected in the Act by the High Court and confirmed on appeal by the Supreme Court has been rectified. I think it was obviously unfair and was obviously going to mean very great unnecessary cumbersome work as long as that flaw was left there. I think everybody will agree that it would be desirable to put these transactions on the same basis as conveyances and assignments. Equally, I think, everybody will agree that the devices employed to defeat the ends of the 1947 Act should be blocked. I am not quite clear, however, whether the method that has been adopted by the Minister will not give honest purchasers some considerable difficulty regarding any purchase of further premises.

I would suggest to the Minister, when he is considering the actual framing of the Resolution in the Act, that he would consider restricting the purchases he intends including under Resolution No. 13—I think it is—to private companies alone, because there is not the same inducement to, nor the same likelihood of, an evasion with regard to a public company as there would be with regard to a private company. Certainly a restriction in that way would save the difficulty of many public companies having frequently to have a long inquisition into the citizenship of all their members every time they want to purchase any additional site or any additional property.

One of the main features of this Budget is that the Minister has made good the promises made in earlier times that he was going to cut out useless and wasteful expenditure and do everything he possibly could to assist and foster productive expenditure. That is the theme on which he was working last year and which he made perfectly clear to the House last year. We see in this Budget that he has continued on those lines. So far as I can recollect, in the last year of the Fianna Fáil Administration, there was about £5,000,000 of capital moneys set aside for capital development. In the previous year, it was somewhere about £2,000,000. Last year that £5,000,000 rose to £9,000,000. This year, on the Budget statement, it has gone up to £12,500,000. So far as one can understand the particular information available to Deputies, that will be increased substantially by further payments from the Transition Development Fund and by the payments on the land reclamation scheme.

In his reference to electrical development, the Minister certainly provided a masterpiece of honest understatement. It would have been natural for him to have referred to the fact that it was he himself who was the father of this electricity development and that it flows from the Shannon scheme introduced by Deputy McGilligan when he was Minister for Industry and Commerce. It is only right that tribute should be paid to him now. The £4,250,000 to be spent this year comes as a result of his foresight in starting the Shannon scheme. No matter what Deputies opposite may say in public, they know in their hearts that the country has welcomed this Budget as a good one and has accepted it as a step forward towards increased production in many spheres. Deputy Aiken thinks that the land reclamation scheme will mean no great increase in production, but he will live to regret that he committed himself on the records of the House to that statement. If Deputy Allen put the question to the people of his constituency, as to whether they would prefer moneys spent from capital sources on roads or land reclamation, the unanimous reply would be in favour of land reclamation.

Why must there be a choice?

That will be perfectly obvious, even to the Deputy, next year. At the end of this year, we will have a capital expenditure of about £15,000,000, compared with a capital expenditure of £5,000,000 during the last year of Fianna Fáil. The difficulty is not that envisaged by Deputy Allen, but that of getting the land reclamation scheme through with the labour facilities that will be available, without having taken them away in another fashion on additional road grants. The choice is an abvious one.

I do not want to go back over the debate we had two months ago on road grants, but I am glad to see that Deputies opposite now agree that the only choice at that time was an additional road grant out of capital expenditure or no additional road grant. At that time, they were trying to lead us and the country to believe that it could easily be found out of income. Now, apparently, they have agreed that these are capital charges. I want to be quite emphatic that if the choice is there, having regard to the circumstances facing us, as between roads, drainage and land reclamation, it is quite clear that the people would infinitely prefer additional drainage works which can be carried out under the Works Bill and also land reclamation, as these would bring much better benefits to the people than the improvement of the trunk roads, which would not bring them as great an increase in prosperity compared with drainage and reclamation.

Most people consider that the Budget is dull and uninspiring, serving the interests largely of the few thousand income-tax payers and doing nothing to implement the policies of the smaller Parties who guaranteed to end the spectre of unemployment, to check emigration and bring about a system in which the whole community would gain by the productive capacity of the State. Certain Deputies opposite seem to have forgotten that it is quite possible to operate an economy which will make a large number of people richer than before and at the same time induce or encourage emigration and unemployment and so fail to solve our major economic problems. It is perfectly possible to operate an economy in which a whole group of people benefit largely, without dealing with these fundamental problems. The reckless promises of the Government Party, when in opposition, to reduce taxation, have not been fulfilled. They have broken that promise in every sense of the term.

The Fianna Fáil Estimates for 1946-47 with supplementaries totalled £52,000,000. We had all sorts of wild statements about the country being overtaxed and ruined and that the grasping hand of the Government must be stayed. Now we see the Estimates total £65,000,000. It is as well to remind some of the Minister of the things they said on the last Fianna Fáil Budget. Deputy Mulcahy said then, on the 7th May, 1947, as given in column 2262:—

"I wondered for a moment—just for a moment—at the applause that the Minister's statement received from the Government Benches, because the Minister proposes to put his hand to the extent of £5,374,000 deeper into the taxpayers' pockets during the coming year than he did last year, and last year he had an all-high record of £47,042,000."

That is an all high record of £40,000,000, increased to £50,000,000, and the present Minister for Education is surprised at the fact that members on the Fianna Fáil benches clapped the Budget. The Minister went on to say, as reported in column 2270 of the Official Reports:

"...if our people do not wake up and realise that if they are the people who must carry on the business of the country, they must get back their own spending and must bring back a situation in which this grasping, grasping hand of the Government will be stayed, because it is doing nothing to increase their production and is piling up our debt."

Since that occasion, we have borrowed £24,000,000 and further borrowings are anticipated as a result of spending all the money put in reserve for E.C.A.; we have Estimates for £65,000,000. If the Government had not reduced the food subsidies, the Budget would have been still higher; the Estimates alone would not have been for £65,000,000 but £71,000,000.

In connection with all the talk about the stabilisation of the cost of living, I might add that, although one in every six lbs. of sugar is consumed in this country by households at unrationed prices, the cost-of-living index as it is calculated by the Minister for Industry and Commerce uses only the rationed price in estimating the cost of living. Although one in every six lbs. of sugar is not bought by hoteliers or caterers but by householders at unrationed prices, there is no change in the estimated cost of the sugar so far as the cost of living is concerned. That applies in a less degree to tea, as to which, again, the cost of living is reckoned on the rationed price, although householders can go into the shops and get unrationed tea in any quantity they want, no matter what the regulations may be.

Moreover, there have been all sorts of savings in connection with this Budget which a lot of the public fail to appreciate and of which it is well for us to remind them. For example, there have been savings on social services which have gone far to offset the increase available for the old age pensioners. Miscellaneous allowances in cash and kind to the tune of £145,000 have been abolished. There is a saving on the Widows' and Orphans' Pension Fund of £450,000. The old age pensioners special cash grants have been reduced by £164,000 and the National Health Insurance cash allowances have been abolished. The total of all these, £1,238,000, just about equals the increase in the old age pensions, comes to something near the same figure, while at the same time workers are now being taxed by over £1,000,000 for the increase in the insurance benefits granted to them by the Fianna Fáil Government without any extra increase in the employers' and workers' contributions. All that is hidden taxation. In fact this expenditure should be added to this Budget in order to indicate its relation to the spending and earning capacity of the people.

There are other features which should be mentioned, items that are not being put into the Budget and which are either going to be borrowed from the Irish people in the future or which are going to be paid by the taxpayer next year. First of all, we might take the new local authorities' drainage scheme. We do not know yet in this House whether that is a very minor scheme to remove obstructions along ditches which are close to a certain type of road and buildings or whether it is an invasion of the main drainage scheme with the consequent destructive effect it will have, costing a great deal of money. We do know, however, that if the employment afforded is going to replace the unemployment caused by the reduction in the road grants in areas where the land reclamation scheme is not going to operate this year it will cost at least £1,000,000 to the taxpayer in the present financial year. If the Government are sincere in recommending that in substitution for the declining employment, it must cost at least this sum.

Then there is the land reclamation scheme which we are told will cost £5,000,000. If even the mildest promises of Clann na Poblachta and Clann na Talmhan are to be carried out, the land division Estimate will have to go up form the modest increase of £60,000, i.e., the additional sum exclusive of salary increase costs. That will have to go up from £60,000 at least to £1,000,000 per year if we are to have these promises fulfilled. Then we have also the increased grants to Bord na Móna as a result of the doubling of the machine-won turf plant. We can add another £250,000 for that. A lot of unfortunate people have not yet been paid the land improvements grant in respect of work effected late in 1947 and early in 1948. Another £300,000 might be put down for that. That makes another £7,500,000 of expenditure which should be anticipated this year in addition to the increase in the Budget of £6,000,000 or £7,000,000 more than the last Fianna Fáil Budget.

Of course there have been other forms of hidden taxation. We have had increased postal charges amounting to £475,000. We have had the increase in passport fees, the increase in educational examination fees, and the increase in social insurance contributions levied from contributors under the social insurance scheme. These alone amount to £1,500,000. Then, of course, many Deputies on the Government side have not stated that there has been another increase in taxation —the increase of rates all over the country. Some local authorities have not yet struck rates—at least they had not at the time I received the reply to my question. In any event, for the coming year the increase in rates leviable by 27 county councils, 48 urban district councils and one county borough council amount to over £1,250,000 —another impost on the taxpayer. That is the final result of the promises made by the Government to reduce taxation. They only achieved victory by the increased votes they got in Dublin, and they achieved it largely on the cry that the country was suffering from the result of inflation resulting from grossly extravagant Government spending and from our inability to reduce the cost of living.

I was listening to one Government Deputy talking about the general economic position and I was wondering whether the left-wing side of the House appreciated Deputy Coburn's remarks when he talked about this country basking in sunshine during the war and said that we must not mind if perhaps the over-exaggerated prosperous conditions did not continue in the same way after the war was over. We were never informed of that during our term of office. No member of the left-wing group ever suggested that this country was basking in sunshine during the war and enjoying unheard-of prosperity. I suppose some people in these smaller Parties will take any punishment, judging by their speeches and reactions to the Budget.

In regard to the cost of living, Deputy Sweetman's statement in relation to the recent increase in wages and the fact that the cost of living had not notably increased since the coming into office of the present Government is obviously not believed in by the trade union movement because, as we all know, there have been increases in wages and there is a third crop of increases coming into review. We all of us know from statements made in the newspapers that there have been either official or unofficial negotiations between the Government or certain Ministers and trade unions trying to arrest a third group of wage increases. We all of us know that the trade union movement as a whole is not in the least satisfied that the Government have observed their promises to decrease the cost of living. I would remind Deputy Sweetman that the only reduction there has been in the cost of living was effected by the Fianna Fáil Government when they increased the subsidies on certain foodstuffs. There has been no decrease whatever since that date. In fact the cost of living went up very nearly 3 per cent. from the lowest point it reached in the Fianna Fáil Government's time as a result of providing increased subsidies. However, we need not worry about what Deputy Sweetman says about the cost of living because we have the statements made by Ministers during the last year or so. We have had the Ministers threatening the profiteers with penal taxes. As time passed we found a gradually softening attitude on their part. We have, for example, Deputy Larkin, on the one hand, reported in the Irish Press on September 20th, 1948, as saying that the public had no faith in Departmental machinery in the control of prices. It had operated for the last eight years, and the same officials were still operating it. No matter how well-intentioned they were, they could not convince the workers that prices could not be broken. So far as I know, the same officials are operating the prices section in the Department of Industry and Commerce. There has been no change in their method of operation and apparently Deputy Larkin has cried in vain. A little while later the Minister for Industry and Commerce, who apparently did not consult Deputy Larkin in advance, had the insolence to tell people in the country that the remedy in regard to the reduction in the cost of living lay largely in their hands. He had done what he could about it, he had taken all the steps possible.

He said on October 28th, 1938: "The remedy is really in the hands of the public." It was not during the election we heard the people being told the best way they could reduce the cost of living was to stay out of the shops and not buy any of the goods. Later on, as it will be remembered, on December 1st last year the Taoiseach finally told Deputy Cowan beyond all doubt that he could not slash the cost of living; it was impossible to do so because the cost of imported commodities was so high. We got to the end of the campaign to reduce the cost of living and we got an admission from the mouths of two Ministers that all the accusations against us and all the suggestions that the profiteering throughout the country was the result of a conspiracy by which Fianna Fáil would get large funds for its war chest in return for arranging that the officials take a light-hearted attitude in regard to the reduction of prices, were untrue. We now know it is all nonsense and it came from the mouths of the Minister themselves.

I next come to the question of the many inconsistencies that we have noted in connection with Government policy during the past year, inconsistencies which cause a disturbance in the minds of business people, inconsistencies which prevent business being far better than it actually is. I should like to hear from the present Minister for Finance which of these two views is now correct in regard to wage levels. In the course of his last Budget he said.

"The substantial wage and salary increases... have gone as far as is possible, in present circumstances, to meet the claims of social justice, and I would make a most earnest appeal to all employees not to seek further increases.... Recent experience confirms that the benefit of an increase in money incomes is rapidly swallowed up by rising prices."

Deputy Norton then said in the course of the debate:

"The present wage standards are incapable of providing workers with a decent standard of life."

While wages have gone up by 5 to 11 per cent. according to the particular industry, the cost of living has remained exactly the same. Certain features of the index I do not think are entirely accurate because we know that the cost of a number of commodities such as bread, milk, meat in certain areas, sweets, biscuits, and insurance stamps have all gone up. I should like to hear from the Minister what is his general wage policy, which statement he believes in, that of himself or that of the Minister for Social Welfare. So far as I can gather the scalp hunting in regard to profiteering charges seems to have ended. The Government, because of their talk during the election, had to go on suggesting that many employers should be in jail. The fantastic contrast in the statements made by the Ministers of the Right Wing and the Ministers of the Left Wing as to whether or not there was excessive profiteering appears to have ended for the moment. Doubtless we shall hear more later on. I think it is well to remind the House that the Government includes two Ministers who can say the following contradictory things. The Minister for Social Welfare was reported in the Irish Independent on the 21st January as saying:

"I am afraid that many of our tariffs in the past, and many of the tariffs in operation to-day were not merely imposed in a thoughtless and unsupervised way, but are being used to-day by some inefficient industrialists to provide them with an income with a minimum of risk and inconvenience.... If you saw the balance sheets of some of those companies-those boys have certainly got away with money since 1939. While other people were undergoing the hardships of an emergency and suffering the privations of rationing, there was a small group of unscrupulous people lining their pockets thicker and thicker with money raked out of the pockets of the consuming public."

I need hardly say that when the average working man, home after a hard day's work, reads that kind of statement he does not read with great care the details of it. A general impression is created in the community that if you made money you must have made it dishonestly, as a result of some imperfection of the social system which could only be cured in a drastic way. The Taoiseach, almost at the same time, said in the course of an address that: "This was an age in which the business man had become a popular target for frequent criticism and not seldom, uninformed chastisement. Too often he was depicted, not as the amiable and human personality they know him generally to be, but as a predatory hard-faced, self-seeker differing little, save in dress, from the antisocial spectres alleged to have haunted Manchester before the first Reform Act." Maybe we could hear something from the Minister as to his attitude to these matters; something about his social economic policy, so that business men and workers alike may know where they stand.

We note with relief that the Government have at last decided to carry out the scheme of the previous Government to double machine-won turf production. We still await the Bill by which that can be done. We hope that Bord na Móna have been instructed to prepare the scheme even in anticipation of the Bill. I might add that in my constituency and neighbouring constituencies a very large number of young men did not wait for the Minister for Industry and Commerce to announce that plan. They left the country. I can well understand it. If the types of men suitable for turf production do not offer themselves for turf employment in certain areas it will be because emigration has been very extensive from the turf area. I still wait to see the Bill introduced here, the scheme actually put into operation and the turf workers given the feeling that they are going to get regular employment for years ahead and not merely wondering whether this is not going to be another unfulfilled promise. I can only hope that enough of them will remain in the country by the end of the turf season to carry out this plan so that the promise that 5,000 people will be employed this year on turf will be implemented.

So far as the Government's new reclamation scheme is concerned I hope, myself, that it will succeed in a very large measure. It is a post-war extension of a Fianna Fáil scheme which has been in operation for a number of years. It is an amplification of the Fianna Fáil plan for subsidising fertilisers which has been in existence for a considerable number of years. It is a further amplification of Fianna Fáil's existing land reclamation scheme.

I must say that I would be glad if the Government and the Minister for Agriculture would permit some of the 13,000 out of the 30,000 people who applied for farm improvement scheme work beginning in July of last year to go on with the work, and also if they would pay off the people who have not been paid yet for work carried out in 1947 and in the beginning of 1948 before we engage on the £5,000,000 reclamation scheme. There are a very large number of people in my constituency who have not yet been able to get on with the original scheme. It would be an earnest of the promise of the Minister who introduced this great scheme if he would at least see that, what may seem to him a very modest little scheme, is kept in full operation.

I have already spoken about land division. In that connection we are awaiting with interest to see whether the present Minister for Lands will carry out the promise which he made as recently as February of this year that he would complete the land division of this country after five or six years, a promise made after watching the efforts of the Land Commission during very many years past and viewing the difficulties that they must experience. Knowing all about the legal complications and the difficulty of selecting allottees, and knowing all about the difficulties in carrying out migration in the proper manner, the Minister for Lands promised the country that land division would be completed, he hoped, in five or six years. In the course of the debate, when it came to discussing the matter, we found that he had inspected about 3,500 acres of land in the Midlands during the past year, that he did not acquire any land, that the only land actually acquired had already been inspected and looked at by the previous Government. We find that he intends to give to each congest now some 30, 35 or 40 statute acres of land, and that at the rate at which he is likely to proceed it will be some 20 years before land division is completed and not six years. We also found out from him that whereas he makes claims in regard to land division which we would like to see substantiated, the pool of some 500,000 acres supposed to have been available throughout the country is no longer available, that a lot of the land has been sold or is worked by people from whom land cannot be taken since they exercise reasonable husbandry, and that it is going to be extraordinarily difficult to carry out the task of settling the 25,000 migrants from Mayo who, he says, should be settled. Of course, as I have said, he tries to satisfy the people in the constituencies where there is congestion, and at the same time tries to give a realistic picture of the situation. That cannot be done. His colleague in Mayo, I may add, wishes the whole Land Commission to be abolished, a suggestion which very much shocked the Minister for Lands.

With regard to the roads, the reduction in the grant by £2,000,000 is undoubtedly going to affect employment on the roads. There, again, to give employment of another kind to workers does not always result in curing the problem. There are classes of workers in this country who do not want to do a certain type of work—they are not accustomed to it—and who will remain unemployed, even though new schemes are put forward. Road work is of very great advantage by reason of the fact that it can be scattered all over a county. Road work can be changed from one part of a county to another and it can actually follow, if necessary, the incidence of unemployment in a particular area. The difficulty in regard to the mobility of unemployed labour is largely overcome through road work. Moreover, one of the biggest advantages in regard to road work is the fact that it can go on in winter. The preparatory work on the roads can be carried out in winter for the summer work which is to follow. During the year 1948, under Fianna Fáil grants, from 21,000 to 25,000 persons were employed on the roads. I think the minimum number was about 20,000 and the maximum something like 25,000 as between the winter and summer months. It is one of the methods of doing national work that will give good employment, very largely the whole year round, if the road work is properly organised.

If the Government are in earnest about solving unemployment, if they are going to borrow £24,000,000 for one reason or another or borrow the money that will have to be paid back later for E.C.A. payments, they might as well budget for £65,000,000 and continue to provide employment on the roads, particularly in the areas where the new land reclamation scheme is not going to be in operation this year.

There is more employment on the roads this year than ever.

As I say, the Government have failed to face up to a problem which would have to be faced up to by any Government in office. The cost of making the roads has gone up by about 70 per cent. Motor taxation has not increased anything like that, so that some other method has to be found for providing the money. I might add in that connection that there is actually a fund upon which to draw in connection with transport. The revenue from duties on petrol and oil is £2,695,000; the revenue from duties on motor vehicles and parts is over £1,000,000, while road fund receipts in the last financial year amounted to £3,118,000. These three items give, roughly, a total of £6,853,000. Even if the Minister had taken only £1,500,000 from the revenue on petrol and motor vehicles and parts he would still be left with £2,000,000 from the revenue under these two heads for general taxation, and he could have maintained employment on the roads.

There has been a lot of reckless talk about the previous Government over-emphasising the importance of main road development. Everyone, of course, is aware of the development there has been of lorry and motor transport generally. It is increasing day by day and month by month. Young people demand amenities and the ability to travel comfortably from one area to another, and so there must be a modern road system. We had, as an alternative to a reduction of the improvement grants on the main roads, an offer of improved grants for county roads. The previous Government was the first Government to give Road Fund grants for the restoration of county roads. It is quite reasonable to suppose that one should give grants for their improvement. The actual fact is that, in a particular county, only a few miles of county roads can be improved under the Minister's regulations in a year because it costs between £1,200 and £2,000 a mile to improve a road, according to Government specification. It means that 99 per cent. of county road users will go without any county road improvement every year in every county. It will take 40 years to surface the county roads of this country if the present system of awarding improvement grants for county roads should continue.

One of the biggest charges made against the previous Government was that we were largely responsible for emigration. We had the Minister for Finance in the present Government literally driving people out of the country by his reference to emigration and to the evil conditions which were supposed to exist in this country and which would make life in starving Britain more desirable. It is just as well to remind the people of this country of some of the things said about us in connection with emigration. The present Minister for Finance is reported, in the issue of the Irish Independent for the 31st January, 1948, as saying: “Since 1939, he (Mr. de Valera) has been responsible for the emigration of 250,000 of the cream of Irish people, a number in excess of the population of the counties of Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan together.”

We had the Minister for Finance on 3rd January, 1948, as reported in the Irish Independent, saying:

"It required great strength to send abroad in six years 250,000 emigrants and to depress the standard of living of those who remained to the point that hardship and destitution and malnutrition and disease resulted."

We had the Minister for Industry and Commerce only a few months ago speaking about the very high standard of living which the vast majority of the people of this country enjoyed, and we now have a figure of emigration running up to the 40,000 mark in the course of one year, with vast supplies of raw materials coming in, and with conditions generally becoming normal. It is well to remind the people of these things. We had the Minister for Industry and Commerce telling us that it was indecent to talk about emigration, that it was a great national problem and that it was indecent to talk about it recklessly, and, at the same time, we had this tremendous criticism of the previous Government largely on the question of our responsibility for emigration.

All sorts of other references were made. The Minister for External Affairs said:

"We will provide work for the people. We will not drive our people from this country."

The Minister for Agriculture talked in two ways. When it paid him, he suggested that we were responsible for emigration and that it was a shocking thing. It is perhaps just as well to remind the House of what the Minister had to say about emigration when we were in office. In speaking at column 2556 of the Official Reports of 9th May, 1947, of the people who left the country he says:

"It is a lot of people to go away from this country, most of them between the ages of 18 and 26. If it goes on, we are going to acquire in Europe the odd distinction of having the highest percentage of old age pensioners and infants of any country in the known civilised world. What an odd consequence of 25 years' independence. Oliver Cromwell could not do it; Queen Elizabeth could not do it; Henry the Eighth could not do it; George the Third could not do it—we had to wait for de Valera. Is it not remarkable? Mind you, Henry the Eighth, Oliver Cromwell and George the Third all succeeded in driving away their quota, but their quota used to go with lamentation."

As soon as Deputy Dillon gets into office, he says:

"I have not such a horror of emigration as other people. Thanks be to God, we have some families of 21. I would rather see the eldest of them marry and produce another 21 children and let the other 20 out of the 21 fare forth into the world wherever their fancy brings them."

As if to crown the efforts of the present Government in regard to emigration, we have the Minister for Industry and Commerce evolving a new theory about emigration, about which, apparently, he had something to say only the other day. He was reported on 31st January, 1949, in the Irish Press and he did not contradict the statement—in fact I know somebody who was present on the occasion—as saying:

"If Irishmen were prepared to work nearly as hard at home as they worked abroad, few of them would have to emigrate."

I challenge the members of the Government to make that statement once at every single meeting that is held outside every church on the occasion of the next by-election, whenever and wherever it happens. They will get a queer reception from the people, if they go on repeating that statement made at the end of a campaign of vilification against Fianna Fáil, because we, in the middle of a war, were not able to solve the problem of emigration.

The war is a great absolver.

We had also the Minister for Lands who worked out how much it cost to educate a man who eventually emigrated. I think it was £120,000,000 which had been lost to the country by Fianna Fáil emigration during the war. However, we now know the situation. It is a strange thing and it will be recorded in the economic history of this country later on that one of the slanders we could have refuted during the general election, namely, that emigration was continuing at a reckless and irresponsible rate, we were not able to refute because we did not have the figures. The figures lay in the labour exchanges, the Garda Síochána barracks, the steamship companies' offices and the railway companies offices. They could not be compiled in time and so we left office and did not know that, during all these months of reckless slander about our responsibility for emigration, the tide had turned for the first time for very many years in Irish history. Instead of people flowing out of the country, over 11,000, on balance, came back in 1947 and we could say that, if we ever did make reckless promises that not only would we give more people more work but we might bring them back to this country, we were able to fulfil that promise in one of the first normal years of our entire existence during 16 years.

We had to engage in an economic war which lasted for six years during which time emigration was reduced by 27,000 to 9,000 and then came the great war and our plans for new production were interrupted. Raw materials became scarce and emigration shot up to something like the figure at which it was during the past year. We started to get going with our normal production and conditions became more normal, and, as I have said, there was an excess of persons coming back to this country in 1947. The outward flow has now begun again and in 1948, 13,000 more left than came back. We do not pretend to solve the problem of emigration. If we were returned to office again, we could only go on with the steady reconstruction of this country. We believe it is a very serious problem, a problem which cannot be talked about in the absurd way in which it was talked about during the election and even since. We know that the problem of giving employment to a sufficient number of persons to make emigration unnecessary is an extraordinarily difficult task.

I should also say a few words about unemployment. Unemployment, as everybody knows, has increased. The number of unemployed is something like 7,000 greater, in spite of huge emigration, than it was this month in 1947. Before the election, we had the promise made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce that if he were in office, he would put everybody at work to-morrow. We had Deputy Cosgrave, Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, saying it was a criminal injustice to pay men the dole and that it was a grave social evil which should be ended immediately. We had some fantastic promises made by members of the Clann na Poblachta Party in regard to the guaranteed to give every man full employment all the year round at not less than £5 per week. That was not a vague promise, a promise merely that they were going to give employment to people or that the result of their economic policy was going to be to give employment. It was a specific promise made by young school teacher after young school teacher at church gate after church gate, that all the unemployed would be put to work at not less than £5 per week.

One of the ways in which they were going to do it was referred to by Deputy Cowan. I quote Deputy Cowan as reported in the Irish Independent of 15th December, 1947, and, so far as I know from hearing Deputy Con Lehane speaking since, there has been no change in this item of Clann na Poblachta programme which is now in abeyance:

"In pursuance of their policy of full employment and production, the Clann would institute national schemes without calling on the taxpayers by changing the law which subordinated their currency with sterling. They would invest the Central Bank with power to create the necessary credit."

The Labour Party had a programme, too:

"Labour's full employment programme, based on the peculiar conditions of this country, provides for absorbing into the economic system in the slack seasons all who are unable to obtain work in our normal agricultural activities. The notion of doles and part-time employment affording a subnormal standard of life has no place in this programme."

We know the position in regard to unemployment. We know that whatever could have been said or promised in 1922 in a country governed by a completely laissez faire Administration, when nobody could possibly have an idea of what the effect would be of the interference of the State in the economy of the country with a view to giving employment, nobody can now make a statement now guaranteeing to give employment in all the slack periods throughout the country. The reason is simple. Employment in the agricultural sphere is seasonal and any person who offers a programme of full employment might remember that out of 140,000 agricultural labourers only 65,000 are employed all the year round.

That is the first and the great unemployment problem that has to be faced in the rural districts. Secondly, there are many types of work which cannot be done at full strength or at all during the winter months. Turf work can be done only to a limited degree in the winter months and there is only a handful of people in the turf camps. Major drainage work does not give anything like the employment promised. Employment on it has to be reduced in the winter. Afforestation, the dream of Deputy MacBride, the Minister for External Affairs, with his 1,000,000 acres of forestry, his land resettlement scheme, his villages and his re-zoning plans, could not possibly give full employment during the winter months. I think for every 30 who would be employed in the summer there would be only 20 employed in the winter.

Land reclamation can give employment in the better months of the winter and there would be some contribution towards the employment programme if the farmers could see their way to employ more labour, but if the farmers do their own work it will not solve the problem of the unemployed living outside the town. Winter unemployment in the areas on the edges of the towns will not be solved by the new reclamation scheme of the Minister for Agriculture, whatever other type of unemployment problem is solved. Everyone knows that even small housing schemes slow down when the weather gets bad; employment in that sphere of activity cannot be kept up.

There are two types of employment which are not affected to any great degree by the climate. We know that employment on the roads can be continued to a great degree in the winter and employment in industry, under cover, can last all the year round, with the exception of those industries which depend on seasonal agricultural industries.

Any Party which makes a promise to give full employment all the year round makes it recklessly and without due regard to the economy of this country. Promises have already been broken by this Government and their promises will continue to be broken. We have often in the past heard members of the Labour Parties and other Parties talk of the social and economic conditions of New Zealand. There is a grim silence now from the Labour Party about New Zealand's social and economic policy, unless something is said at private meetings of the Party. Talking about giving full employment on New Zealand lines is ridiculous and absurd because there is no comparison between the social and economic systems of both countries.

So far as agricultural policy is concerned, I think the principal difficulty is that whatever the Minister for Agriculture has said, the farmers are very uncertain about the future tillage policy, having had the experience of a glut of oats and potatoes, and having heard the Minister encourage the unlimited production of oats, promising a remunerative price for it. Even after the Minister knew there was a bountiful harvest and that there were stocks of oats in the country, he refused deputation after deputation any assistance until he was finally compelled by a vote of confidence moved by Fianna Fáil in the Dáil to adopt some kind of guaranteed scheme. All that has created difficulties in the minds of farmers. One of the priceless elements in the situation is that in certain limited areas in the country, including some in my constituency, farmers are growing more wheat than last year. They are growing it for the Minister who said at one time time that the growing of wheat was a fraud and that he would not be seen dead in a field of wheat.

Why are they growing it?

Because it is the one crop that has a guaranteed price. The Minister would not dare to allow wheat growing to pass away altogether in the face of the present international situation. In connection with industry we have had an improvement in employment since the war, arising from the re-establishment of industries and from the fact that raw materials are coming in more freely. Here again, if industrial development is to proceed rapidly, it is absolutely impossible for any Government to adopt a balanced policy in regard to protection. I do not believe in a balanced policy in regard to protection in any State that has not a very long record of industrial production. I do not believe in considering whether an industry is efficient or inefficient within a term of five, ten or 15 years. It takes 25 years to establish a proper industrial tradition in respect of many industries. This Government will have to be either violently prejudiced in favour of tariffs or else get out of business. The longer one has studied industrial development the more one becomes convinced of that.

A great deal of Government talk, threatening everyone with increased taxation and about inefficiency in industry resulting from protection, is based on a complete lack of realism. In every category of industry if you impose a tariff you will get 20 new units started for that industry or 20 extensions on to the existing industry and their methods of production will differ and their efficiency will differ. In Great Britain there was a higher rate of bankruptcy among industries that were unprotected than there was in this country among industries before they were protected and a great many industries here closed their doors because of lack of protection.

You have to have a tariff which will enable not alone the best but the second best and the third best to survive. The only persons you have to exclude are the persons in the fourth or fifth categories, persons whom you may think are not deserving of a tariff. One cannot be half-hearted in these matters. One can observe controls and give warnings that production must be efficient; one can have some kind of price control, but the mental attitude towards new industries must be a liberal one; otherwise you cannot expect people to invest in new industries. At the present time, with the existing rate of taxation, with income-tax reduced by 6d. and with the existence of a prices commission, if the Government believe in private enterprise they will have to adopt the same liberal attitude that was adopted by the previous Government in regard to industries, or otherwise results will not be obtained. In many cases the costs of production vary, not through the fault of the management at all, but through the size of the industry they start, through the particular subcategory of the products they manufacture. All those things have to be taken into account.

I was very interested to be able to purchase at the Spring Show the Economic Co-operation Administration European Programme country-study made of Ireland. It interested me because, in spite of the propaganda efforts made by some people to give the impression that the low rate of output of this country was due largely to the Fianna Fáil Government, the figures in this document, if they prove anything at all, prove how magnificently production was maintained during the world war, and what an excellent machine we left to the present Government to take over, how little damage, in fact, had been done by the effect of the world war on the economy of the country, largely due to the excellence of the administration. Some of the figures are really quite remarkable and should be made available to the people of this country. Take for example, the personal consumption of people in this country. If you count the figure of 1938 as 100, the lowest point it reached, in spite of the grave shortage of raw materials and in spite of all the difficulties we had to face, was in 1944, when it was 85.7. It remained above 90 for the first two years of the war.

We have heard a great deal about the low agricultural output in this country. We have been told that the land has been starved of fertilisers, and it has. We know about the scarcity of maize during the war. We know about all the difficulties farmers had in acquiring machinery and keeping machinery in working order. We know the long-term problem of increasing the volume of production is undoubtedly serious. We know also the result of good weather upon the crops of last year, showing that, however much the country needs reclamation, the land is still capable of producing magnificent crops if the weather happens to be particularly suitable. There again, the figures published by the Economic Co-operation Administration show that, during the war, the farmers did a wonderful job, considering everything, and that production remained at an astonishingly high level, in spite of the reduction in fertilisers and imported feeding stuffs. The actual index of volume assuming prices remained at the same level as 1929-30, shows that the production was 100 in 1938-39 and the lowest level it went down to was in 1943-44, when it went to just below 90. It went up again steadily and it fell, of course, in the year of the very bad weather, 1947. By 1946 it was 97.4, within 3 per cent. of the volume in 1938-39, after five or six years of economic war and some five years of world war.

All one can say is that, if Fianna Fáil had had the opportunity of establishing an agricultural policy which, in the first instance, was not related to the emergency of the economic war and which, in the second instance, was not related to the emergency of the world war, we really might have been able to do something about solving this problem of the stagnancy of agricultural production. The fact that we were able to maintain production at that level during those times I consider a most remarkable thing and a tribute to the last Government. One can go through other figures. One can refer to live-stock numbers. Even allowing for the reduction of pigs through the absence of feeding stuffs, they again show the same resilience to a crisis and the same result of wise administration.

Industrial production shows even more remarkable figures. Taking 1938 as 100, the lowest level of production in the volume of goods was 79 in 1942 and by 1946 it was 10 per cent. above 1938. In 1937 it was 115 and in 1948, for the first quarter, 124. At one time the volume of our imports of raw materials was one quarter of normal. Nevertheless, the lowest figure to which production fell was about 80 per cent. on the basis of the normal pre-war year being 100.

Those things prove that we have left the Government, not only plenty of plans to go on with, but a country that has survived the war very successfully, a country with a reasonably sound economy.

I notice that we did not hear much in the way of propaganda from the present Government in regard to the nutritional survey of 500 families in Dublin that was recently completed and the report of which is available to members of the House. It was an examination of 500 families divided between middle-class families, artisan families and families of low income. I was well aware that we had granted social services. I was well aware of the cash allowances made during the war for food and the food vouchers. I was well aware of the immense volume of charity being performed in the central slum area of Dublin where conditions are still a disgrace to us all as a result of historical features which we well know and which will take a long time to cure. I was also aware of the increased employment afforded in industry and of all the efforts made by the Government to re-house these people. I would not have thought it possible that a nutritional survey, conducted by impartial persons, would reveal that in fact none of the 500 families had too little to eat. I think that is a source of satisfaction. A lot of them did not have the right things to eat. They did not have enough milk to drink. There was plenty of room for improvement. We did not hear much about that kind of thing during the general election. The fact is that, although there is a great economic problem to solve in the central part of Dublin, that survey shows that no person actually had an insufficient amount of food to support life. Deputies should read the report for themselves. It is a most remarkable document and it proves the good results of a long term period of reasonably planned economy and re-housing and, if we had gone on with that sufficiently long, I am quite sure the report would have been even more satisfactory.

We have left the Government a great many plans to carry on with. I hear of people belonging to Government Parties who are going around the City of Dublin telling all the people who are finding out that there are more eggs that Mr. Dillon was responsible for the egg and poultry plan. I think it just as well to remind these propagandists that every single detail of the egg and poultry agreement, except the recent reduction in price, was worked out by the previous Government. I hope that another plan of Fianna Fáil's which has been delayed in operation, the farm buildings improvement plan, will come into operation this year. We have a delay in the existing land reclamation scheme. We have had a delay in the number of authorisations for grants and there has been complete postponement of the farm buildings' grants scheme. I hope that it will come into operation soon. I have seen no advertisements yet and advertisements are an essential part of this scheme. If a farmer is to carry out his tillage and do his harvest and make his estimates for the work and find out who are going to be his handymen, if he wants them, and whether or not he will get the materials if he is going to do the work himself, he must begin that work very soon if there is to be any hope of getting the work done at all this year. I do hope that Fianna Fáil's farm building scheme will be put into operation at once.

We all look forward to the Bord na Móna (Increased Production) Bill because emigration is extremely serious from the turf areas. People seem to have lost hope of any kind of State scheme to give them constant employment during the summer.

I should like to make one comment in connection with general Government policy. For the first time we had a Minister for Agriculture anticipating the work of the Agricultural Wages Board by making it quite clear that there was going to be a minimum wage of £3 a week all over Ireland. All of us would like to see the agricultural wage raised higher than £3 a week. We can all argue as to whether or not the farmers can pay £3 a week. I can tell the Government that whereas in some areas 99 per cent. of the men may retain their employment at £3 a week for the same number of weeks all the year, there are other large areas in the country, including my own constituency, where a great many unfortunate men are getting 36 weeks at 60/-a week instead of 52 weeks at 55/- a week. Many are thrown out of employment. If there was to be a variation in that Order it should have been applied more carefully. I do not believe the agricultural workers in a large number of areas have derived much benefit from that reckless step taken by the Minister for Agriculture who, in anticipation of the Agricultural Wages Board, told them to increase the wages all over the country to £3 a week. I only hope that the farmers will discover that Mr. Dillon is such a wonderful Minister for Agriculture that they will be able to continue to employ their labourers at the increased wage. But they have not discovered it yet.

Finally, the principal criticism I have to make of the present Government is that the special promises, which were made to the people and which resulted in a certain increase in the strength of the smaller Parties and the defeat of the then Government are being recklessly broken. Obviously they are not going to be implemented now and the Government to-day is largely of the Fine Gael mentality. This Government has not the broad view on State planning and industrial and agricultural development which we in Fianna Fáil hold. So far as I can judge the smaller Parties are going to sit quite silently and watch all the plans which distinguished them from Fine Gael either being discarded or put into abeyance permanently. But I think the people of this country will make quite sure that because of that there will be a reckoning one of these days.

It is quite apparent to all Deputies that the Budget which we are debating this evening is in very truth, from the Fianna Fáil point of view, a deplorable Budget. All of us can remember Deputy Lemass and the other Fianna Fáil supporters who, when we were only a short time in office, were certain that this Government would find it impossible to increase social services and at the same time reduce the burden of taxation. They were quite certain that that could not be achieved and that that aim embodied two inconsistent objects. They believed that if the Government endeavoured to pursue that aim the Government would fall. I remember last year very shortly after the formation of this Government reading in the newspaper which Deputy Lemass controls, the Irish Press, a prophecy made by the present Leader of the Opposition that this Government would certainly fall when it introduced its first Budget. We all know that at that time Fianna Fáil were inspired by somewhat forlorn hopes. They could not realise that their term of office was over and that there was another Government quite determined——

Where is it?

In Deputy Lemass' newspaper it was said that this Government would not survive its first Budget. But the Budget was introduced and debated. Certain increases were given under social welfare services, increase that were denied by Deputy Lemass.

I want to ask if we can have any explanation as to why no member of the Government is present in the House during this debate? May I move the adjournment of the House for the attendance of a Minister?

I think it is a grave discourtesy to the House and, so far as I know, it is unprecedented not to have a Minister present during the Budget debate.

It is a matter over which I have no control.

The House should go on record as protesting against this grave discourtesy.

The Minister for Justice was here until a few moments ago.

He has not been here for over half an hour.

This is play-acting.

Am I to understand that the Government is treating the House with contempt? We are here debating the Budget and no Minister thinks it worth his while to come in here and defend the Budget.

Deputy Lemass in his own newspaper endeavoured when this new Government was formed ——

It is not usual in this House to refer to the avocations of a Deputy in private life.

If I am out of order I shall not pursue that. I think I may, however, refer to the Irish Press. That particular newspaper endeavoured in the early days of this Government to cause uncertainty throughout the country and thereby prevent the Government carrying out its policy and its aims. That newspaper indulged in prophecy as to how long this Government would last. We know that prophecy has not been fulfilled. We are discussing to-day the second Budget introduced by this inter-Party Government. I know that is a sickening experience for Deputy Lemass. I know it is a sickening experience for Fianna Fáil because they have to discuss a Budget which provides for increases under social welfare schemes and, at the same time, reduces the burden of taxation. When the inter-Party Government took office they were faced with a bill of Estimates totalling £77,000,000. That money had to be found by taxation and otherwise. Under this administration in the short 15 months in which the Government has been in office taxation has been remitted to the extent of £6,000,000 by the removal of the increased tax on beer, tobacco and cinemas. That meant that the bill on the taxpayer, during the period this Government has been in office, was reduced first of all by that sum.

Secondly we have the reductions brought about in this Budget in the burden of income-tax on the ordinary middle-class in the community. The standard rate of income-tax has been reduced and, at the same time, very necessary increases have been made in the allowances under the income-tax code. Each of these concessions has meant a reduction in taxation for the people generally. Without going into detail, I think it is now recognised by people generally that this Government has achieved its aim. It is bringing about a reduction in the burden of taxation and, at the same time, by a better use of revenue, is increasing social services and providing other necessary benefits for the people.

The portion of the Budget Statement which deals with capital expenditure and with the general financial and economic condition of the country is, perhaps, the most important part of the statement. I observe in dealing with that that this Minister, who was described by the Irish Press and referred to, I think, by Deputy Lemass —certainly by other Deputies in his Party—as being a Minister who would wield the economy axe irrespective of what the consequences might be, has arranged that in this year capital expenditure will extend to over £12,500,000. Last year a sum of £9,000,000 was provided for capital expenditure and in the previous year, I think the sum was around £3,000,000. So that in the policy of the present Government there is a saving on the type of expenditure that does not bring a return but there is an increase in respect of capital expenditure, an increase in respect to the amount of money spent on objects and for purposes which will confer a lasting benefit on the community. This year £5,000,000 is being spent on electricity development, nearly £3,000,000 is being devoted to the Local Loans Fund from which grants for housing will be provided, almost £2,000,000 is being devoted towards the extension of the telephone services, over £1,500,000 is being provided for the Road Fund and over £1,000,000 for turf development. All these items of expenditure will give a return to the community in increased employment and in increased amenities and services generally.

It must seem strange to that section of the people who read the Irish Press or follow in any way the tortuous arguments of Fianna Fáil and their diverse criticism of the present Government, when they have to come to the extraordinary conclusion, that this Government—in respect to it the one thing about which they were certain was that it was going to economise no matter what the cost might be —is providing more money for work on essential public services in this country than ever was provided by Fianna Fáil. That fact apparently is being realised and appreciated by the Party opposite, so much so that they have now in this debate to switch their tactics very considerably. They now say that the Government is breaking its assurances to the people and that there is an enormous increase in the burden of taxation. I do not know whether that line of attack will convince the people generally but I do know that there is one thing that that section of the people who have been neglected in the past, the ordinary small salary earner, the man known as the white-collar worker with a small salary or income raising a family, appreciates and that is that he is getting, by reason of the reduction in income-tax and of the increase in allowances, a lightening of his burden. He is going to accept no argument from the Party opposite that although he feels he is paying less, in some extraordinary way he is paying more. That is one difficulty which Fianna Fáil in opposing this Budget are making for themselves.

I was interested in the speech made by Deputy Childers. I must compliment Deputy Childers on making what must be regarded as either a very brazen or a very courageous speech. It is very hard to imagine any Deputy on the Fianna Fáil side claiming, at this late stage, credit for the new land reclamation programme introduced by this Government. I could have understood their saying that perhaps the Government should not take any credit for it as it was the result of the generosity and the tremendous regard of the American nation for our people, but it is very hard to be patient with Deputy Childers when he says that there was a plan there for that already, that this is one of the Fianna Fáil schemes which had been pigeonholed away in some Government Department and that it was always there to be taken out and put into operation. That is apparently to be one of their new lines in speeches in the coming months, that if anything good is done by this scheme and if anything of benefit to the people flows from it they may thank Fianna Fáil for it because somewhere, at some time Fianna Fáil had a scheme for that and the present Government is, under no circumstances, to get the credit of putting that scheme into operation or of bringing any benefit to the people by it. When we hear Deputy Childers talking about the land reclamation programme we cannot forget that Deputy Lemass by his speech at Fermoy did his very best to prevent that programme from ever coming into operation and to prevent American aid to this country by attacking Ireland's case for Marshall Aid.

I exposed the falsehoods.

The scheme is being put into operation despite his opposition and his clear effort to sabotage it. Of course, the speech at Fermoy was only following another speech which Deputy Lemass made at Bray and which, I am sure, he is very sorry he ever made.

I would make it again to-day.

I am quite certain that he would not. Am I to understand that the Deputy would repeat it?

Certainly.

I think it took him four speeches to explain that he never made that speech at Bray. You know, desperation makes very extraordinary changes in some people. Perhaps Deputy Lemass realises that for as long as he will be a member of this House he will be sitting over there.

Deputy Childers mentioned road work and, generally, the forms of employment that should be sponsored and encouraged by this Government. Let me say first of all, in case any member of the Party opposite might be under any misapprehension in regard to this matter, that there is no complacency about emigration. I do not believe that there is a single Deputy or a Party supporting this Government complacent about the fact that every week we have people leaving this country. I do not believe that anybody on this side of the House is complacent about the urgency of tackling the problem of emigration and of encouraging our people to remain at home. We trust that no Minister of this Government will ever be so complacent about that particular problem as, I think, Deputy Lemass was while he was in office when he said that emigration was necessary and that it was——

The Deputy knows that that is a falsehood.

I am sorry if I am misquoting the Deputy.

You are not attempting to quote me, not to talk of misquoting me.

Perhaps it was not Deputy Lemass who made that remark but some other member of the Fianna Fáil Government.

Find the quotation.

I accept Deputy Lemass's statement that he did not make that remark but my clear recollection is that that statement was made by a member of the Fianna Fáil administration. Perhaps it was made by Deputy de Valera. However, it was abundantly clear that speeches, such as Deputy Childers referred to, were made before the change of Government criticising the last administration and the one thing everybody here was quite vehement about was that complacency existed in the mind of the last Government in relation to emigration—that they were quite satisfied to work the economy of both these islands, England and Ireland, as one. The attitude was that if there was a labour shortage in England by all means let our people go across. That attitude of mind was quite clearly evidenced by the fact that under Fianna Fáil an entirely new type of emigration arose, emigration to England. That was something for which there was no historical reason in relation to this country and something which did not exist prior to the coming into office of Fianna Fáil.

Let me assure Deputy Childers and the Party opposite that so far as Fine Gael is concerned—and I am sure that it is equally true in the case of the other Parties supporting the Government—we are in no way complacent about emigration. We realise that though we have a smaller population than we had even 25 or 50 years ago it is our duty as an independent State to provide decent employment and a decent standard of living for our people, and Government activity must be directed towards that end in the coming months and years. For that reason I deprecate very much the attitude of mind shown by Deputy Childers in relation to forms of employment in this country. He praised road work. He advanced quite cogent reasons as to why road work might be a very easy and attractive way of dealing with local unemployment problems—dealing with a spot of unemployment in different counties. I regard the attitude of mind shown by Deputy Childers in his speech as being something in the nature of begging the question. If you are going to have permanent unemployment and permanent emigration in this country then obviously you should have plenty of special employment schemes and you should have plenty of quick means of employment for your people. If that is your attitude of mind, as I believe it is the attitude of mind of Deputy Childers, what you should have is some quick way of giving them week to week or month to month employment. I believe that this Government has a different view in relation to such matters.

It believes that the time has now come when we should endeavour to get at the very root of unemployment in this country and provide something that is going to employ and give an income and means of livelihood to considerably more people in this country each year. If that be the aim of the Government we all know that the only thing in this country that can now, and did in the past, maintain a greater number of people is the land and the income drawn from the land. I welcome very much the progressive spirit of the Government in sponsoring a reclamation programme and similar programmes in relation to land in this country. I believe that if you do not increase the fertility and increase the means of productivity of the land of this country you are not going to attract or keep the young people on the land. You are always going to have the problem of the unemployable member of the family who cannot get employment locally, who becomes unemployed in the small town and later in the city, and you are going to have, in addition, the problem of the small farmer's family which has to seek employment elsewhere.

I think that it is a welcome change to find that in the coming 12 months a real effort is going to be made to provide employment in this particular scheme in making the land more fertile and more productive, and through that, in giving to the people who work the land the means of earning more and getting a better livelihood from it. I know that the scheme in itself is not perfect and is not going to achieve a special sort of Irish paradise, but I think it shows a welcome change of mind, a change anyway from that appallingly complacent attitude of mind shown by Deputy Childers: if there is unemployment, dish out a special employment scheme and that will satisfy everyone for a few weeks anyway. It is getting away from that and I think, as the years go on, there will be less and less reason for special employment schemes in this country.

I do not want to be almost replying to what Deputy Childers has said, but there are two other matters to which he referred which I think I should mention. He said in relation to agriculture that there is now an increase in wheat growing in this country and that it was an extraordinary commentary that the farmers were growing more wheat for a man who said that wheat was all nonsense and impossible. I am very glad to hear Deputy Childers say that, but I do not regard it as a strange commentary. I regard it rather as a tribute to a man who believed that by allowing people to work their land as they wished and by giving them the inducement of a fixed and increased price you would get better production from the land of this country. I am glad to learn from Deputy Childers that that particular policy, which was assailed by most farmer Deputies of the Party opposite on the Agricultural Estimates of last year, is being justified now. That is only one small way in which the present Minister for Agriculture will be justified during the coming years in this country. The second matter is that Deputy Childers criticised the Minister for Agriculture for having the audacity to increase agricultural wages up to a figure of £3 on an average throughout the country. He calls that a reckless step. "It was a reckless attitude to compel the adoption of that viewpoint by the Agricultural Wages Board." I have found it difficult to understand Deputy Childers' objection to the Minister's policy of increasing agricultural wages. I cannot understand why anybody should suggest that £3 a week is something beyond the reach of an agricultural labourer. It is to be suggested——

Nobody has suggested it.

——as I understood from Deputy Childers that £3 is such a figure that if it is operated it will cause unemployment because farmers will not pay it? Or are we to understand that £2 5s. 0d. a week, which I think was another figure suggested by a member of the Party opposite, is to be maintained as the agricultural wage of the country? I would like to say that if any members of Fianna Fáil think they are going to bring about agricultural unemployment by making speeches such as that made by Deputy Childers, they have another think coming to them.

I represent a good tillage constituency and I say that the ordinary farmers of the country are quite prepared to pay a lot more than £3 a week provided they get, as they are getting, a fair return of work which they set the men to do. None of us, and least of all the farmers, regards £3 or anything like it as the optimum figure for agricultural wages and if Deputy Childers thinks, by making what I would call that particularly inflammatory remark about agricultural wages, that he will get any votes for himself or credit for his Party he is mistaken. Agricultural production and the income from agriculture is increasing quite perceptibly at present and farmers recognise that with that increase in their income from the land a portion of the money must go to the men who work for them and upon whom they must depend for a greater increase in future.

I should like to summarise what I have said and, in conclusion, to say that this is a welcome Budget for the people of the country—perhaps my view may be prejudiced just as Deputy Lemass's view is prejudiced. It is a popular Budget, a Budget which ordinary people can discuss and in which they can see a recognition of many of the little vexatious taxes that had been overlooked in the past. They can see concessions to small sections of the people who were looking for concessions for years and whose claims had never been noticed. Above all, it is a small man's Budget and I think generally it is recognised as such and is welcomed by the people outside.

At the same time, of course, the people recognise that you must expect some sort of opposition to the Budget from Fianna Fáil. Most people sympathised with Deputy Lemass in the extraordinarily difficult plight in which he found himself last Wednesday when he replied to the Minister for Finance's financial statement, but recognising all that, the people outside know very well that in their opposition to this Budget Fianna Fáil have not much heart because they know that this Budget is considerably better than ever they could have introduced.

When the new Government was elected and its members were in the first elation of victory and still in a humbugging mood carried over from the election, the Taoiseach went to Radio Éireann on the 24th February and spoke as follows:—

"We are convinced that the Dáil should become a deliberative Assembly rather than a machine for registering the will of a majority Party,"

and he went on as follows:

"We hope so to conduct our business in Parliament that every group and every Deputy will be induced to make some contribution to parliamentary discussions and debates. The prestige of the new Government will not, nor will the influence of any Minister, be thrown in to stifle debate. We shall not shrink from criticism in either House of the Oireachtas or in the country."

We do not expect the members of the Government to live up to their promises. We think that the standards the Taoiseach set for members of his Government in that broadcast talk were rather high. The only thing we expect from the Minister for Finance when he has introduced his Budget is that once in a while he should stick his head in the door of the Dáil while the debate on the Budget is proceeding to see how it is going on. We have had a debate to-day in the absence of any member of the Government for long periods. We are now graced by the presence of a Minister. The Minister for Lands, probably dodging an unwelcome deputation in the corridor decided to take refuge in here.

If the Deputy did that he would be here yet.

Do not interrupt me. The Taoiseach said that the influence of no Minister would be thrown in, but he could have added that he was going to organise a little claque of Deputies on the second row of benches to interrupt anybody who criticised, led by the indomitable Deputy Collins. He did not mention that in his broadcast speech. He said that the influence of no Minister would be thrown in, but Deputy Collins is not a Minister yet. He said: "We shall not shrink from criticism in either House of the Oireachtas or in the country." He could have added: "But we will try to shout it down if necessary."

I do not think the Deputy was interrupted once.

In fact, I was quite considerably interrupted by the Deputy opposite.

I do not think the Deputy was interrupted once, except to draw attention to the fact that no Minister was present. That was the only interruption.

With respect, in my presence, Deputy Lemass interrupted five times.

I hope some one of the Deputies opposite will at least take the trouble of noting down some of the criticisms which have been expressed on the Budget and have them conveyed in due course to the Minister for Finance, wherever he may be.

There cannot be persistent interruption. The right to speak exists for both sides of the House.

Deputy O'Higgins was talking about the funds that are being made available to this country under E.C.A. This is the first matter on which I want more information. The Minister for Finance in concluding the debate, should deal more fully, for the purpose of clarification, with the attitude and intentions of the Government concerning the money which it is borrowing from the United States Exchange Control Board under the E.C.A. plan. In the Minister's Budget Statement, there was a brief reference to these borrowings. It was, in the main, factual. In so far as it purported to give an indication of the Government's attitude, it was altogether inadequate.

Perhaps I had better protect myself by relying, in the first instance, on a quotation from an authority which cannot be attacked by Deputy O'Higgins. If I go further in this matter without seeking some such protection, I am quite sure that, before the night is over, the Minister for External Affairs will issue another one of his statements through the Government Information Bureau to the effect that Deputy Lemass is being mischievous. The bureau has become, not an organ in the service of the Government but an institution, paid for out of public funds, for the personal glorification of the Minister for External Affairs. I think it is high time it was abolished. It has become a public scandal. I saw to-day a document issued by the Government Information Bureau which not merely consists of a personal laudation of the Minister for External Affairs but contains the most insolent references to Opposition Deputies. If the Government is still seeking economies, there is one I would suggest—the abolition of the bureau, which has been debased into something much lower than a Party propaganda organ.

Who established it?

It was established by the Fianna Fáil Government as a Government Information Bureau. It was confined to the issuing of information concerning the activities of the Government, of which the public were entitled to be aware. There was published in the Saturday Evening Post an article concerning the Minister for External Affairs, a ridiculous article containing not merely fulsome praise of the Minister but many misstatements of fact. That article has been reproduced at the taxpayers' expense, an article which contained insulting references to members of this House, including the Leader of this Party. It has been circulated by the Government Information Bureau. Will any Deputy opposite tell me why I must pay taxes so that the Minister for External Affairs can have this personal propaganda service rendered to him?

The Deputy can raise that on the Estimate for the Taoiseach's Department.

I was dealing with the question of dollar borrowings from the United States Exchange Control Board and asking for information as to the Government's attitude towards it. I do so because I, like a number of others, am greatly concerned about developments in that regard.

To protect myself, I am going to start off by reading a quotation from the Annual Report of the Board of the Central Bank. I have not always found myself in agreement with the ex cathedra pronouncements of the Central Bank Board, but I know that its position is such and the status of its members is such, that its statement must be treated seriously. In connection with this matter of dollar borrowings the most recent report of the Central Bank said this:

"The raising of a loan in a foreign currency to secure supplies of consumption goods is an expedient to be adopted only under pressure of extreme necessity and within the narrowest limits dictated by that necessity. Especially in view of the existing world currency situation, a loan contract of this kind is a gamble on uncertain future exchange relations of the Irish pound, the pound sterling and the American dollar. The implications of the contract are less predictable according as the terms of the loan is longer."

Later in its report, it went on as follows:—

"While acceptance of aid to some extent in this form might be an act of necessity, it was important that the local currency proceeds of the loan be administered so as to help correct, in so far as possible, the initial disadvantages of the borrowing. This could be achieved if such proceeds were invested in a manner that would secure the earning in the future of American dollars to cover at least the service of the loan. The difficulty of finding such a type of investment need not be elaborated.

Failing the ideal investment, the nearest approach to it should, of course, be sought. A dissipation of the proceeds in question in any other manner would strengthen inflationary influences. It was fundamental to realise that the disequilibrium in the Irish balance of payments was not a mere temporary phenonmenon which could be trusted to right itself without positive measures to that end."

The Minister, in his Budget statement, referred to this matter. I take it that most Deputies will agree with the view of the Board of the Irish Central Bank that the borrowing of dollars to pay for consumption goods is an unfortunate necessity—with emphasis on the adjective "unfortunate" in that phrase. It involves a degree of risk— and not all financial risk—of which the Irish public should be made aware.

The Minister in his Budget Statement stated as reported in column 488 of last Wednesdays's debate:—

"The policy of the Minister for Finance in relation to the investment of the proceeds of dollar borrowings must be guided by two main considerations; the need to avoid inflation or other adverse economic consequences as a result of adding to the volume of money from external sources and the obligation which rests on the Government of repaying the borrowings with interest."

I think the Minister could have added certain other considerations which are at least of equal importance: (1) The obligation which rests upon him to minimise borrowings to the greatest extent practicable with the maintenance of a reasonable supply of goods which are only procurable from dollar sources; (2) the utilisation of the Counterpart Fund resulting from the borrowings, as was proposed by the Board of the Central Bank, to increase, if possible, our dollar-earning capacity; and (3) in any event, to utilise it in a manner which will of a certainty ensure the repayment of the amount borrowed without creating the necessity in future of having recourse to higher taxation for that purpose which could have—and I ask Labour Deputies to keep this fact in mind—a crippling effect upon our future social as well as our future economic development.

I am not going to suggest with regard to the first of these considerations that the Minister for Finance is not minimising dollar borrowings. Certain things, however, have happened which appear to be in conflict with the principles to which he has given expression from time to time. Last year we were told that we had to break our continuity with the International Labour Organisation by not sending a delegation to the International Labour Organisation Conference held in San Francisco because it was necessary to save dollars. Since then half a dozen Ministers have travelled to the United States of America and, so far as the public is aware, their journeys were not really necessary, including the mystery tour undertaken recently by the Minister for External Affairs. That, of course, may have resulted in a net dollar income, if his collection was satisfactory.

There was, as the Minister pointed out, a substantial reduction in dollar outlay in 1948 as compared with 1947. The trade and shipping statistics recently published, however, would suggest that there has been an equally substantial increase in dollar imports in the first quarter of this year as compared with the first quarter of last year. My main concern, however, is with the absence of any effort to substitute dollar imports by home production where it is practicable. Deputy O'Higgins referred to wheat and Deputy Aiken also referred to it and I am not going to deal with that matter. I note that there have been substantial allocations of dollars for the purchase of textile yarns and fabrics which, however necessary their import may be now, could conceivably be manufactured in this country. I ask Deputies to keep in mind that this is not a problem of to-day; that it is not a problem which will end even in 1952 when the Marshall Plan ends, and that if we are going to minimise dollar borrowings between this and 1952 and get into a position in which we can pay our way after that year, we have got to exert ourselves to build up every dollar-earning resource here or other resources which will minimise the necessity for importing goods from dollar countries.

The problem is not, of course, merely a dollar problem. In that regard I want to refer to one report which has reached me and with which the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Industry and Commerce may be concerned, because it implies either a conflict of policy between two Government Departments or a complete disregard by both of the national interests in this regard. There was set up some time ago a company which established a factory at Finglas for the manufacture of equipment to be used by the Electricity Supply Board in the rural electrification scheme. I was personally determined from the inauguration of that scheme that, to the greatest possible extent, the equipment required by the Electricity Supply Board for it would be manufactured here and, with considerable difficulty, the company was induced to undertake the task and to erect a factory. The factory is now complete and, according to the Press, the company which established it held its first annual meeting on Friday last. It is ready to take orders. It is in this position—and those who undertook the promotion of the company realised from the beginning the weakness of the position—that it has really only one customer in this country—the Electricity Supply Board. The report that I have is that the Electricity Supply Board, prior to the completion of the plant of that factory, imported more than two years' supply of the equipment which that factory can make and that it is, consequently, not now in a position to give orders for additional equipment which would bring that factory into production. My allegation is that the equipment imported by the Electricity Supply Board came, in the main, from non-sterling countries and that the Department of Finance facilitated the Electricity Supply Board in bringing in that enormous quantity of equipment capable of being made here.

Under no circumstances whatever. I do not think you are going ahead fast enough with the rural electrification scheme. It was not necessary, however, in 1948, to bring in equipment that is going to be used in 1951 in order to make progress with the rural electrification scheme last year. If that report is incorrect, I shall be delighted to hear that stated authoritatively by some Minister. It is not easy for Ministers to get public understanding of the need for a restrictive policy in regard to imports from hard currency countries when every effort made by any one of them to that end is immediately contradicted and nullified by some other Ministerial declaration, including this Budget statement by the Minister for Finance which suggests that useful expenditure by the Government of the kind to which Deputy O'Higgins referred is dependent upon the expansion of the amount in the Counterpart Fund by the expansion of the total amount borrowed from the American Exchange Control Board.

There has been in every declaration by every Minister concerning the land reclamation scheme and the Marshall Plan, as it is called, the implication that the financing of land reclamation, the financing of afforestation, electricity development, and all the things which Deputy O'Higgins was talking about is dependent upon the growth of the Counterpart Fund in consequence of the expansion of dollar borrowings. That is not true; in fact it is the reverse of the truth. The utilisation of the Counterpart Fund for these purposes serves no purpose whatever, so far as I can see, other than convenience. In fact, there are good reasons why it is better that money which is legitimately and properly borrowed for development purposes should be borrowed from the public of this country rather than drawn from the Counterpart Fund. I am not objecting to the view expressed by the Minister for Finance that it is proper for him to borrow money, even though it is to be used in a manner which will not create a financial asset but which will effect a general increase in production and with it a growth of the national income which will enable the repayment of the borrowing to be effected without raising rates of taxation. There are, however, dangers in that course which are obvious to anyone who pauses to consider the matter, even for the first time. First, the obvious danger that a hard-pressed Minister for Finance, driven on one side by political Parties who are anxious to retrieve their fortunes in the country by increasing expenditure and held on the other by pledges for reduced taxation, may resort to borrowing for purposes for which borrowing is not justified.

However well-intentioned he may be at the beginning of that process he will find himself gradually having recourse to the fund for reasons which are increasingly less easy to justify. The most important point is that money can be borrowed for general development purposes of that kind only when there is no reasonable doubt that general development will result. If the projects for which it is borrowed prove in the event to be less beneficial to the country than their optimistic planners hoped, then the inevitable result will be an unnecessary burden of taxation in the future which, when it becomes necessary, could have a crippling effect upon our progress. Everybody will appreciate these dangers; the danger of borrowing to avoid political difficulties; the danger of utilising borrowed moneys for projects which are not as soundly planned as is asserted, if the money is borrowed from the Irish public. The danger of resorting to this Counterpart Fund instead of to the public for the purpose of getting the money into the Exchequer is that it will encourage a far less critical attitude to such borrowing. That is the danger of linking this Fund in the public mind with development schemes such as the land reclamation scheme, afforestation and electricity development. These things are not dependent upon the existence of that Counterpart Fund. These projects could proceed if there never had been a Counterpart Fund, assuming that the need for dollar borrowings did not exist. To associate the fund with the projects in the minds of the public is not merely detrimental to the development of a proper public outlook in the matter but is itself completely unwise.

The Central Bank referred to the risk that the proceeds of the borrowings would be dissipated. The possibility of it being dissipated in financing projects which proved to be less sound than originally hoped was not the only one which the Central Bank Board had in mind. Borrowed dollars must be repaid in dollars. That is the one fact which must be continuously kept before the minds of our people. It is the one fact the Government must never lose sight of when determining its position from day to day, month to month or year to year in the matter of the acceptance of dollars under the E.C.A. plan. The dollars by which the borrowing will be repaid must either be secured by this country in the process of trade or must be purchased for sterling. As the Central Bank Board warned the Government, the Dáil and the country, in accepting these dollar borrowings we are gambling upon the future of sterling.

I do not know what the risk is that sterling may be devalued. If sterling is devalued in relation to the dollar then the burden of the dollar debt which we are now incurring will increase in proportion to the devaluation. I see that the British Chancellor of the Exchequer asserted emphatically a few days ago that sterling would not be devalued, that it was not necessary and that, in any event, the British Government did not contemplate doing so. There have been other statements, however, from spokesmen of the American authorities which make it fairly clear that they believe sterling should be devalued. We all know that the circumstances which have up to now justified the decision of the British Government to maintain the official rate of exchange between the £ sterling and the dollar are passing with the passing of the seller's market. There is obviously a risk there for us and while it is a risk we must take in present circumstances, it is one that we should be concerned to minimise in so far as it is in our power to do it. If, therefore, we are to use this Counterpart Fund we should try, if possible, to apply it in such a manner as to increase in the future our capacity to earn dollars, because if we can expand our capacity to earn dollars in the future, then to that extent we are placing ourselves in a position in which the risk will be reduced and the country made independent, so far as the dollar loan is concerned, of the consequences of the devaluation of the £ sterling. The Minister said that in effect. However, his attitude and the attitude of the Minister for Industry and Commerce and many other members of the Government suggest that not merely is no serious consideration being given to the possibility of expanding dollar earnings by the utilisation of the Counterpart Fund or otherwise but that they are, in fact, directing their policy in the opposite direction.

What is our most important trade at the present time, important in absolute value and in dollar earning potentiality? The tourist trade. Is that not so? We had, according to the Minister for Finance, a deficit in visible trade last year of £89,000,000. The total value of all our visible exports was £47,500,000. This one trade, the tourist trade, brought in £35,000,000 last year. Is it an exaggeration to say that the attitude of the Government towards the development of the tourist trade is not merely one of indifference but one of actual hostility? I could quote, if I wished, a hundred statements made by members of the present Government, even after they became Ministers, which conveyed that attitude.

On a point of order. I was prevented by the Speaker from discussing this business and told it was a matter for the Estimate for Industry and Commerce.

The Deputy is discussing the policy of the Government as I understand it.

The financial policy.

I was following on the same lines and was ruled out.

That trade is earning more than any other that our people are engaged in. It brought a net £35,000,000 into the national kitty last year. Why are the Government hostile to it? Will they not admit that the reason for their hostility is that, prior to the change of Government, for Party purposes they campaigned in the country against luxury hotels and against allowing visitors to come in here to eat our scarce food? Because they thought that was a popular political line, and now that they have found out the folly of it they have not the moral courage to admit it. They have got to do it. It is not merely a matter of safeguarding the national interest in this important respect, but it seems to me vital to the preservation of American interest in our post-war recovery.

A day or two ago a member of the American special E.C.A. mission to this country, Mr. W.H. Taft—described as the special assistant to the E.C.A. mission to this country—went on the radio and broadcast a statement in which he pulled no punches, a statement which was so expressed as to be almost unique in the records of diplomatic pronouncements. One could hardly conceive a member of a foreign diplomatic mission in this country speaking so frankly over the public radio except that he felt there was a necessity to emphasise and drive home his remarks so that the members of the Government and the members of the Dáil should appreciate the importance of them. This Mr. W. H. Taft, dealing with this very question of the utilisation of the Counterpart Fund resulting from the E.C.A. plan said this:—

"To build hotels and to attract the tourist from the United States— who is now flying across Ireland to Europe—needs energy; the desire to attract foreign investment in hotels; hotel management training; the better preservation of wild life; more money for advertisement; the official preservation of national monuments which in a country stimulated by history are disgracefully neglected—in a word, a forthright and determined policy—and that is what Ireland does not have. Admittedly, to institute such a policy, with its many initial difficulties, requires more than suggestions from the Irish Tourist Board. It requires men of Cabinet rank actively promoting a unified programme. If foreign investment is wanted we can search for it, and in some cases guarantee that investment. We can give technical assistance and advice in the management of hotels, an important point—but frankly, E.C.A.'s chief job is to urge Ireland to aim beyond the $17,000,000 United States tourist business scheduled in your Marshall programme."

That was a frank speech from a foreigner talking to the Irish people. It comes from a man who is concerned with the possibility of utilising this Counterpart Fund so as to make us eventually independent of dollar borrowings and put us in a position in which we can repay the borrowings incurred now and at some future stage pay our way in trade with dollar countries. That is not merely important from the American point of view. It is important from our point of view, and if the Government allow any silly prejudice, any desire to justify statements which they made in ignorance before the election to stand in the way of the development of that trade to the maximum possible extent, then they are open to the charge of having neglected Irish interests in one of the most important matters coming within their care.

The rectification of the present unsatisfactory position of this country in world trade is, of course, something more than a matter of developing dollar earning potentialities. It means an endeavour to increase exports of all kinds to all countries. Now I agree that is mainly a matter of agricultural policy and I am not going to refer to it in this debate. The Estimate for the Department of the Minister for Agriculture has been ordered for discussion by the Dáil, and it is on that Estimate that we can most effectively debate the general economic consequences of the agricultural policy now being pursued. It is quite obvious that the Minister for Finance, if he dared to speak his mind, would have expressed concern at the effects of that policy to date. In a year in which all war-time shortages disappeared and in which this country was blessed by the best weather we have known for years agricultural output still remains 7 per cent. below pre-war; in this year despite these benefits our butter production did not reach the level secured in the last year of the war— 1945—and in every direction there is evidence that the present policy is not producing the expansion in output which is necessary if we are to get not merely a general improvement of the national income but the expansion in our export trade which the present figures make clear is urgently necessary. It is, however, mainly in relation to industrial exports that I want to express a view here.

On the 29th December, 1948, the Minister for Industry and Commerce sent a circular to all Irish manufacturers. The sum total of his efforts to expand industrial production for export appears to be represented by the issue of this circular in which he expressed the hope that "all Irish manufacturers will give serious thought to the possibility of initiating and developing an export trade". I want to ask the Minister for Industry and Commerce and his Cabinet colleagues to give serious thought to the problems of initiating and developing an export trade. There is no evidence yet that any Minister has faced up to the problem involved in that matter. Will it be conceded that, if Irish manufacturers are to secure a significant development of the export trade, they must get at least the same forms of assistance as British manufacturers get in England? Most of us will, I think, believe that they would want more. They have no experience in the export markets; they have smaller units of production which obviously handicap them, and if we are going to get a significant export trade in industrial goods we will have to go much further than the British Government finds it necessary to go. I am only asking at the moment that the Government should decide to go as far as the British Government goes in encouraging their manufacturers to initiate and develop an export trade.

We have nothing here equivalent to the British export credit guarantee system. We need obviously similar facilities for our manufacturers in that matter, such as the British manufacturers have had for years. Will the Minister for Finance give to our manufacturers at least the same inducements in taxation which the British Government give to their manufacturers to instal new up-to-date machinery? The present allowances under our income-tax code for wear and tear of machinery are the same as they were when the Irish Free State was established in 1922, when the practice then prevailing in the British Exchequer was taken over and adopted by the Irish Exchequer. Since that date these allowances have been progressively increased on four separate occasions by the British Chancellor of the Exchequer. Two years ago he went further than that in order to induce British manufacturers after the war to scrap absolete or inefficient plant and to put in up-to-date efficient plant by giving them a further allowance of 20 per cent. of the initial cost.

We have done nothing equivalent to that. It is no answer to the case which the Federation of Irish Manufacturers have made in that regard for the Minister for Finance to say that the general level of taxation is lower here. The point is that, as between one manufacturer and another, the British thought it necessary to give these inducements in taxation to get manufacturers to improve the efficiency of their equipment and to instal new equipment as it became available. We must give our manufacturers the same inducements. They are people of the same type and should have the same inducements. They will react to the same stimuli, and, if it was good policy in Great Britain, then obviously it is much better policy here. Have no illusion whatever about the present attitude of the Minister for Fiance in that regard holding up development. I could produce abundant proof, but I will content myself with reading from the directors' report to the shareholders at the annual meeting of one Irish company, Irish Worsted Mills, Limited, Portlaoighise, the report for the year ended September, 1948. The chairman referred to the fact that in the previous year he had informed them that an important development in the company's activities was under consideration and went on:—

"Further and more recent consideration, however, has forced your directors to decide that such a venture would not be sound commercial policy, until such time as the views of the taxation authorities are brought up to date and into line with modern industrial requirements. We consider that the present taxation system is inimical to enterprise and that its recasting is a prerequisite to any attempt at industrial promotion. It should be possible for business to re-equip itself out of current earnings without being compelled to rely upon heavily taxed profits for the purposes of expansion and promotion of employment. In particular, your directors wish to refer to the reluctance of the taxation authorities to grant any relief in the way of tax-free profit which may be retained in the business for the purpose of maintaining mechanical efficiency, and also the utter inadequacy of present depreciation allowances on plant and machinery and the non-existence of any allowance whatever for buildings."

If the Minister for Industry and Commerce expects any response from the manufacturers of this country to the circular asking them to give serious thought to the possibility of developing export trade, the manufacturers are entitled to ask back that the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Finance will also give serious thought to it.

I mentioned here on the occasion of a recent debate one further instance of an obvious conflict in the administration of policy between the Department of Finance and the Department of Industry. I said that one industry which has distinct export possibilities at present is the sugar confectionery industry, all branches of it, and one of the most important branches is listed in the Trade Journal amongst the few which show a decline in employment last year as compared with 1947. On that industry at present the Minister is imposing an illegal tax, a tax which was not sanctioned by the Dáil, although I always understood it to be a fundamental principle of constitutional democracy that no citizen could be taxed without the authority of his representatives meeting in Parliament and voting the imposition of the tax.

Upon the manufacturing consumers of sugar in this country, a tax of £20 per ton has been imposed by the Minister for Finance. Some Deputies may think that that means that the manufacturing consumers are paying the economic price for sugar, whereas the domestic consumers are getting a ration at a subsidised price. I do not mean that. They are paying that tax over and above the economic price for sugar. There is a motion on the Order Paper asking the Dáil to approve a Sugar (Prohibition of Import) Order. If the Minister for Finance will even permit these manufacturing consumers to import sugar to be used in the manufacture of goods for export, they can make some progress in the business. Sugar can be imported at the c.i.f. price of £38 per ton at present. It is possible for the Irish Sugar Company to produce sugar at that price. Their ex-factory price is lower— probably the price that would recover the whole of their overhead costs would be higher—but if they were sure of the possibility of expanding production, they could, without loss, sell sugar at that price, provided the Minister for Finance is prepared to allow them to do so; but if he is not prepared to allow them, if he intends to maintain this tax upon Irish produced sugar used by Irish manufacturers for export purposes, will he at least allow these manufacturers to import sugar which will be re-exported again in the form of products manufactured by Irish workers in Irish factories? If there is any serious intention behind this circular of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, if there is any serious purpose whatever in all this talk about expanding exports, it is by devices of that kind that individual trades can be induced to consider the possibility of export and helped to get into it.

We had an announcement made on 12th February that the Government intended to establish an industrial development authority. We were told what the functions of that authority and its members would be, but nothing further has been done about it. Do members of the Government realise that the making of that announcement in February, not followed by action, has meant that everything is at a standstill since? There is not a board of directors of an industrial undertaking in the country who would undertake any development at present in advance of further information as to the powers to be given to that industrial development authority.

If it was not intended to proceed at once with the establishment of that authority and the enactment of the legislation to give it powers, the announcement should have been withheld. The making of that announcement, followed by no action, could only have the result it has had of bringing everything to a standstill. Industrial progress is not taking place. People who might start new industries are marking time and people in existing industries that might develop are holding back, waiting to learn what the Government proposes to do. Will the Minister for Finance, when he is concluding the debate, give some definite information as to when that authority will commence to function, what its powers will be, how these powers will be given and how they will be exercised? These are the things upon which those concerned with Irish industrial development want information and they will do nothing to develop trade, internally or externally, until that position has been clarified.

You are telling them to do it.

I am telling the House what is happening. Anybody with common-sense would know that that is what was bound to happen.

You know it is wrong.

What is wrong? Is it not true that this announcement was made on 12th February and that nothing has been done since?

You are telling them to stand still.

I am not.

Of course, you are.

Considerations of self-interest will prompt them to wait until they know more definitely what the Government proposes to do. Why the delay, anyhow? If Deputy Davin thinks my speech will encourage them to wait, the Government can solve that problem to-morrow by making the announcement I am asking for. When the Government made the announcement on 12th February, did they make it not having considered all the problems that would arise with regard to the form of legislation necessary to give effect to their intention and, if so, why did they make the announcement at all?

This is your second attack, is it not?

The same applies to the undertaking in which Deputy Davin is interested, the Irish railways. We have here a transport problem, a serious transport problem. The only thing the Government have told us is that they propose to institute a new system of appointing the directors of Córas Iompair Eireann. That does not touch the essence of the transport problem —it surely should be followed up by some action, because again what is happening in relation to industry is happening also in the transport organisation of the country. Everybody is waiting for some more definite information of the Government's intentions.

They are not waiting for the sack, anyway.

Whatever they are waiting for, let them know what is coming. Everybody knows that merely to change the personnel of the board of directors solves nothing. If the Government is really serious——

It solves a great deal.

I do not know what the Minister thinks it solves.

The Deputy knows damned well what it solves.

I wish the Minister would enlighten me. What does it solve?

It means the difference between bungling and mismanagement and good efficient management, and I think that is a great deal.

If you are now claiming that the present chairman is more efficient than the old one, why do you not give him a chance—a chance to know what you are going to do? If there is a plan for reorganisation, he should be told. Why should not others who are working with him also be told what it is? Do you think it is fair to leave them in this position, that they know a plan is going to come but they do not know when, and meanwhile they must wait around doing nothing? There are hundreds of lorry owners who believe, because they were told by Deputies opposite, that this legislation will give them certain rights.

They were not told that by "Deputies opposite".

They were. That statement was made by Coalition Deputies. Is it fair to leave them in a position of uncertainty? The Government made an announcement of the intention to introduce legislation. It is only fair to indicate the nature of that legislation. I urge them to withhold announcements like that until they are ready to implement them.

With regard to the social welfare plan, Deputy Cowan referred to it during the course of this debate, and he said it was not reasonable to expect the Minister for Social Welfare to produce that social welfare plan in the period of time in which he has been in office. He said that as regards a plan of that kind legislation of such importance could not be drafted in a few weeks, or even in a couple of months. I agree and I want Deputies opposite to remember that that is true. We are not asking for legislation and we are not expecting legislation; we are expecting a White Paper which will set out in a non-legal, preliminary sort of way, what the Government intend to do. That is what the Dáil was promised; that is what has not been done, although it could be done in a week if the Minister for Social Welfare was serious in his declaration that he had such a plan already completed. There was a time when he told the Dáil he could produce it within three months. That was 12 months ago. Surely, there is some explanation for the delay.

If any Deputy thinks it is not reasonable to press the Minister for more action—if the position is that this Minister, who has little else to do, could not produce that White Paper in 15 or 16 months—I ask him to put it to this test: to turn to the volume of Statutes for the year 1932 and to note in relation to that year, the first year in which I was a Minister, the first year in which Fianna Fáil was in office, the number of major measures, that were produced. He will find that there were introduced in that or the following year the unemployment assistance scheme, which was at least as revolutionary a change in the social services then existing as anything the present Minister for Social Welfare contemplates, and that was produced from the Department of Industry and Commerce. We also produced a multitude of important measures: the Control of Manufactures Act, the Control of Prices Act, the Act which set up the cement and sugar industries, and the Industrial and Credit Corporation Act.

The sugar industry was set up some five years before that.

There was a factory established in Carlow and it was made the base of a new one since. I would ask Deputies to study the legislation which was produced in that year by the Department which was concerned with all these things, and I am now merely asking for the White Paper which was promised by the Minister of a Department which has little else to do.

Wait until the action is over.

I am merely asking for a White Paper setting out in brief, non-legal terms what they intend to do. I ask Deputies to remember that after that White Paper is presented the drafting of legislation will proceed, and that will not be completed in two months. When it is completed it has to be introduced into the Dáil and passed and later it has to be considered by the Seanad and then it will be put into operation. Deputies will now understand why the Minister for Finance did not think it necessary to vote one halfpenny for that service in the coming financial year.

The explanation of this delay is one of three possibilities. Either the Minister has fallen down on his job, the Government have changed their minds, or there is a conflict of opinion within the Government on this matter.

Is it in order for the Deputy to make reference to matters which are the subject of an action which is pending against himself?

Not nearly to the same extent as Deputy Cowan did. I am sure the Minister for Social Welfare had his head buried in his hands and he was saying "Save me, oh Lord, from my friends." Leaving that aside, let us take the other possibilities— that the Government have changed their minds or that there is a conflict of opinion proceeding within the Government. As evidence in support of either theory I will quote the Budget statement: "It is very obvious that no really big saving can be secured unless a limit is set to demands for the extension of existing, and the creating of new services." That was a brief statement, but it is was very significant in view of the promised comprehensive social welfare scheme. If it is a fact that the Government have changed their minds in this matter and that number five of the original ten-point programme, which the Government set out to implement, has now been abandoned, then the Minister for Social Welfare owes to the members of the Dáil and to the public an explanation of what he is still doing in the Government.

If there is a conflict in the Government, if the Government are divided between those who are supporting the Minister for Social Welfare in his effort to get that plan through and those who may be opposed to it, then the Minister for Social Welfare is very short-sighted indeed if he decries the efforts being made by Deputies here or by the Irish Press or anyone else to get action, because their agitation would be the strongest weapon in his armoury if he cared to use it.

This Government was set up, pledged to do three things. Their ten-point programme had a lot of verbiage in it but three main points. They were to reduce taxation, to reduce the cost of living and to introduce this comprehensive social welfare scheme. They have not reduced taxation—they cannot claim to have done it. The burden of taxation which the people will carry this year is the highest in the history of the State. It is more than £6,000,000 beyond what they regarded as an intolerable burden in 1947. How have they progressed in the matter of the cost of living? Are they trying to reduce it? Is it not the standard excuse of Ministers when they are questioned that the forces affecting the prices of commodities are outside their control? They did not tell the public that; they did not go to the electorate with an intimation that they were going to confine themselves to controlling the working of economic forces in order to get an automatic fall in the cost of living. Their promises were much more specific. I could produce 100 of these election addresses if it were necessary, but I will read that of Mr. Noel Hartnett, the first lieutenant of the leader of the Clann na Poblachta Party, who said that they proposed to take immediate steps drastically to reduce the cost of living, at least to the British level.

Is it in order for the Deputy to attack a person who is not in the House?

If I did not refer to Deputy Dr. Joseph Brennan, whose name is also on this address, it is because I understand he is ill and I would not wish to refer to him in those circumstances. I move to report progress.

Progress reported; the Committee to sit again to-morrow.
Top
Share