Supplementary Estimate. - Vote 41—Local Government. – Dáil Éireann (13th Dáil) – Thursday, 21 Jul 1949

Supplementary Estimate. - Vote 41—Local Government.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Keyes)

I move:—

That a Supplementary sum not exceeding £1,500,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1950, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Local Government, including Grants to Local Authorities, Grants and other Expenses in connection with Housing and Miscellaneous Grants.

The first item of the Supplementary Estimate is a sum of £250,000 on sub-head (3) of the Vote for the Department of Local Government for the current financial year. That sub-head provides the grants for new houses built by private persons for their own occupation and by public utility societies for their members, grants for reconstruction in rural areas and recoupment of two-thirds of the letting grants made by local authorities.

The Supplementary Estimate is necessitated by the extension of the statutory maximum of £580,000 contained in Section 26 of the Housing (Amendment) Act, 1948, and the authority given by the Oireachtas in the Housing (Amendment) Bill, 1949, for the extension of that maximum to £1,750,000.

In the recent debates on the Second Stage of the Housing (Amendment) Bill, 1949, the House favoured me with a number of considered and helpful views on the general scope of existing housing legislation. The amount now required will, at the present rate of expenditure, meet requirements up to about the end of October next. I would like then to consider the rate of progress further and to give the Dáil an opportunity for considering the further provision to be made.

The second item in this Supplementtary Estimate is £1,250,000 for the making of grants to local authorities for works carried out under the Local Authorities (Works) Bill, 1949. The Act confers powers on local authorities to execute works affording relief or protection from flooding, landslide, subsidence and similar occurrences in relation to their own property and to other public property which they are required by law to maintain; they may also do similar work in relation to property not owned or maintained by them if they are of opinion that it is in the public interest to do so.

My Department will give the terms of the Act a generous interpretation, but I have asked local authorities to confine their proposals for the present to works which will involve no elaborate surveys or heavy machinery and which can be carried out within the present financial year. The local authorities have put forward a variety of works of lasting utility widely dispersed over the areas. These works, in addition to being works of permanent improvement will add substantially to the volume of rural employment. I would, therefore, ask Deputies to agree to this Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. Lemass

There is one point I would like the Minister to clarify. Did I understand him to say that the additional amount provided under the Housing (Amendment) Act will carry on the work of the Department in that respect to the end of October next and that at that stage another Supplementary Estimate will be required?

Mr. Keyes

Yes, I expect so.

Mr. Corry

I want to raise one matter in connection with the Works Bill. The total amount of the reduction in the road grants was over £2,000,000. That would mean roughly something like 13 or 14 weeks' employment for the road workers in this country. The Minister is now providing only £1,250,000. I suggest to him that that will not fill the gap and that there will be unemployment amongst road workers unless that gap is bridged by the other £1,000,000 taken away this year by the reduction in the road grant. There is a gap of £1,000,000 and that gap will mean further unemployment in the rural areas.

Mr. Lynch

There is one matter in reference to the Supplementary Estimate in connection with the Local Authorities (Works) Bill that I would like to mention. In his statement today the Minister said, and this statement has been made before, that this Bill is primarily designed to ease rural flooding. I pointed out in a recent debate that by easing rural flooding we are likely to make flooding in the urban areas more imminent, particularly in the low-lying urban areas.

I know it is not for the Minister to take the initiative in any scheme, but not being a member of a local authority, I take this opportunity of urging that the claim of Cork City in this respect should not be ignored. During the flooding last December several areas in Cork City were under water. In many cases that flooding could have been obviated if certain works had been carried out. These works would have cost very little. Two or three areas were under water and one of those areas was Blackpool. I put down a question about this some time ago. I realised then and I know now that legislation is not likely to compensate the people who suffer hardship as a result of such floods. I appeal to the Minister not to deal only with the rural areas in the administration of this fund. I urge upon him that he must appreciate that the easing of flooding in the rural areas may mean more flooding in the urban areas.

Mr. Flynn

The Minister and his Department requested each county surveyor to submit a list of simple schemes in connection with the Works Bill. As a member of a local authority which submitted quite a number of these Schemes, I would like to know what has happened as a result of that request. I have been informed that only a section of these works, as requested by the Department, have been forwarded from our county and I would like to have a check-up on that matter if it is at all possible. Can the Minister inform me as to the extent to which the county surveyor has complied with his request. The question of simple schemes clearly indicates that the Minister will pursue a long-term policy in regard to these works. I take it that the £1,000,000 referred to will only cover portion of the programme. As far as we are concerned in county Kerry the list of schemes we submitted will cost approximately £70,000 to £80,000. I take it that if the surveyor acts on the request of the Department now to send up a list of simple schemes they will only represent a fraction of what we originally submitted. This £1,000,000, therefore, will only cover the programme for a certain period. Next October, as indicated by Deputy Corry, we will be looking for another £1,000,000 if all the schemes submitted by Kerry and other counties are to be considered as early as possible. We are anxious about these schemes and we do not want to leave anything undone, either by the engineers or anyone else, which would prevent the work being carried out according to plan. We would like to be informed as to whether the schemes we have submitted to the county councils will be submitted to the Department immediately.

Mr. Allen

I would like to know from the Minister who is to make the selection from the list of schemes submitted to him that are to be undertaken immediately, and who will allocate or determine the amount of money to be spent on each scheme? When will those schemes commence? It is important that county councils should know whether the selection is to be made by the county engineer, the county manager, or by the Minister, and who will determine the amount of money to be allocated on each individual scheme. We would like to have that information if the Minister can give it to us because it is important that local authorities should have it.

Mr. Keyes

So far, there is no shortage of schemes and there is no shortage in the amount of money we have estimated to cover these schemes. They are mostly in the rural and county areas and we have not very much from the civic areas. There is no reason why there should be. The estimates of the schemes will be submitted by the local authority engineers for consideration by the engineers of the Department. We have asked that the general run of schemes will be on the simplest possible lines and the councils have adopted that measure now. Elaborate schemes are to be put in the background and the simple utility schemes are to come to the front, where there is simple engineering and the maximum of labour. That will enable us to meet that deficiency that is spoken of in the Road Fund grant.

In reply to Deputy Corry, the total as I understand it, deducted from the Road Fund was in the region of £2,000,000. There is £1,250,000 provided here. We want to utilise the months that are left, to make the most of the good weather to get this work going. I cannot guarantee that it is going to close the gap completely, but as far as we have gone schemes have been submitted by the local authorities from the Twenty-Six Counties. I feel that there will not be very much gap in the way of unemployment between this way, taken as a substitute, and the way taken by the road grant.

Mr. Corry

Is the Minister able to to guarantee that he will come in here for a fund to fill that gap, if necessary?

Mr. Keyes

The Deputy knows as well as I do that that particular £2,000,000 was taken from the peak contribution of the Road Fund. The normal contribution up to two years before this was nothing at all like it. In the two years previous the amount granted by the Road Fund was practically on a par level with what had been contributed then. When the Road Fund was completed during the emergency, emergency grants were given. That could not be maintained indefinitely. It is not quite right to say the £2,000,000 deducted from that was deducted from a normal Road Fund. It was deducted from an excessive or, at any rate, an emergency fund. I estimate that this will be a very useful measure to relieve unemployment, to permit the local authorities to start work in order to give more work to labourers.

Vote reported and agreed to.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 Jul 1949