Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 24 Nov 1949

Vol. 118 No. 10

In Committee on Finance. - Irish News Agency Bill, 1949—Report and Final Stages.

Minister for External Affairs (Mr. MacBride)

I move amendment No. 1:—

In page 3, Section 8 (2), immediately after paragraph (a) to insert the following new paragraph:—

( ) the said Articles shall provide that a member of either House of the Oireachtas shall not, except with the prior approval of Dáil Éireann, be appointed a director of the agency;.

On the Committee Stage of the Bill there was an amendment by Deputy Lemass which I accepted, subject to the addition of some words making it mandatory to come to the Dáil for its approval by resolution before any member of either House of the Oireachtas could be appointed a director of the agency. I take it that the amendment will be accepted.

Mr. Lemass

I would have preferred the amendment, without the exception in it which contemplates the possibility of a member of the Oireachtas being a director of the agency with the approval of Dáil Éireann. In so far as the amendment is a step towards the provision I wished to have in the Bill, it is acceptable to me. I think the Minister will have some difficulty in the Seanad because, unless the Seanad has changed considerably since my time in office, they will not agree to this power of approval being confined to members of the Dáil.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Lemass

I move amendment No. 2 in the name of Deputy McCann:—

In page 3, before Section 9, to insert a new section as follows:—

The rates of pay and other conditions of service of journalists employed by the agency shall be regulated in accordance with agreements to be from time to time made between the trade unions representative of such journalists of the one part and the agency of the other part.

During the course of the discussion in Committee a suggestion was made by some Deputies that the anxiety which journalists have expressed relative to the employment to be given by the agency could be met by inserting a provision in this Bill that the journalists to be employed should be members of trade unions. The Minister thought that that would be an unprecedented step and, in fact, instanced the railways in the course of his argument. This amendment is an adaptation of a provision of the Railways Act, 1933, which requires that the rates of pay and conditions of service of railway employees must be settled in accordance with the agreements made between railway companies and the trade unions representative of railway workers. The whole of that particular section of the Railway Act would not be suitable to this Bill, but, in so far as it was possible to do it, I have attempted to secure the adaptation of that section to this Bill. If the amendment were carried it would have, I think, indirectly the effect desired by some Deputies of ensuring that journalists employed would be members of recognised trade unions.

Mr. MacBride

I am prepared to accept the intention behind the amendment. I think the intention is quite a good and proper one. There are some difficulties, however, in incorporating it in the Bill, because immediately I visualise that the news agency will have an office in America and England. At some later stage, if we are successful, it may branch off further afield. I think any amendment of the nature proposed would create difficulties in that eventuality. I do not know enough about journalists' trade unions in different parts of the world to know whether it would be feasible, but it would be difficult to be placed in a position to have to conclude agreements with trades unions in other countries. While accepting the intention behind the amendment, so far as I am concerned I am quite prepared to assure the House that I will do everything I can to ensure that trade union journalists will be employed. I do not think I can accept the amendment.

Captain Cowan

Might I ask the Minister if he visualises that the journalists employed by the agency may be non-Irish nationalists?

Mr. MacBride

May be.

Captain Cowan

I want to have that clear—that journalists to be appointed by the agency may, in fact, be non-Irish journalists.

Mr. MacBride

They may very well be. They may be just part-time local journalists. I think there would be a tremendous amount of difficulty, if the agency were to branch out in different countries, in ensuring that we would find journalists here with a sufficient knowledge of the language to be able to act as journalists in another country.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question—"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.

Agreed to take the Final Stage now.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Mr. Lemass

I should like to make it clear that our opposition to this Bill has not been abated by anything which happened during the course of its discussion in Committee. In fact, if anything, that opposition has been strengthened because we were unable to extract from the Minister the detailed information as to the function or method of working of the agency which we think the House should have. The Minister assumed that opposition to this Bill was prompted mainly by antagonism to himself, but he was wrong in that. The anxieties and suspicions which we entertain are, I think, natural to the members of a democratic Parliament when they find the Government proposing to engage in news agency activities involving the expenditure of public money on a substantial scale.

The Minister has spoken here about other European countries and news agencies that exist in them and has advanced as one argument in favour of the Bill that most other European countries have a news agency of some sort. He is possibly aware of the fact that in France, one of the countries he mentions, the Havas Agency, one of the agencies he mentioned, was recently the subject of considerable controversy arising out of a proposal of the French Government to subsidise it, to turn it into the type of agency which, I think, the Minister intends to establish under this Bill. That opposition which developed there, and which was, in fact, expressed in newspapers circulating outside France, was also due to the feeling which people have that the operation of Government news agencies has been, up to the present, mainly a function of dictatorial Governments and that the extension of that function to democratic Governments is an unhealthy sign.

It is not true that this country is being seriously prejudiced by the fact that there is not a commercial news agency here. So far as I know, the existing news agencies that serve newspapers here and abroad are mainly commercial undertakings. There is a number of them working in competition, and it is not unusual for a newspaper to discontinue the service of a particular agency if it believes that it is not getting from it proper news coverage, and it would almost certainly happen if there was any suspicion that the news supplied was being coloured for propaganda reasons. These commercial agencies securing business in competition with one another are not free to become propagandist organisations or to colour the news which they supply, because any suspicion that they were acting in that way would lead immediately to a loss of business. The fact that there is no commercial news agency here is, as I stated during the Second Reading debate, due largely to the fact that the newspaper organisations in this country are not numerous enough or wealthy enough to support it. The principal news agency supplying news here, the "Press Association", was established by a number of American newspapers on a co-operative basis to cover their own needs in international news, and if we had here newspapers, nearly as numerous or half as wealthy as the newspapers of the United States, a news agency service established on a commercial basis to serve a similar purpose for Irish newspapers would have existed long ago. It is only in relation to international news that papers require the services of a Press agency. All the Irish newspapers, as Deputies know, cover events happening within Ireland by their own permanent staffs, or local correspondents, and they could not possibly maintain, and, in fact, would have little reason to maintain, a world-wide news agency to give them news coverage from all corners of the globe. The news coverage which they get through the existing agencies is ample. Every newspaper takes the service of more than one agency, and there is ample opportunity to ensure that news does not reach their readers in any tendentious form, because the competitive element between the agencies ensures that they will have full stories relating to every event from independent sources.

I think the same is true of news about this country going abroad. It is not true to say that there are only British representatives here. Most of the international agencies have their correspondents here, including the Havas Agency, as the Minister knows. Newspapers abroad are in precisely the same position as newspapers here in that they have independent supplies of news from competitive sources on which they can rely.

I doubt very much if this agency can establish itself anywhere as a commercial news agency. It cannot possibly hope to give a service that will compete with the commercial agencies. Because it is established under Government auspices and because it will not be dealing with the ordinary day to day news which news editors desire to obtain, it will be suspect from the start as a propagandist agency, and, like all the material that comes to every newspaper from propagandist agencies, it will be put mainly on the editor's spike. The effective work which this agency can do is very limited. Its cost, apparently, is going to be quite high, and I doubt if we are going to get value for the money we have voted. Its doubtful value and its high cost, associated with the general objection there is to Governments dabbling in news, even when they profess their desire to do it for patriotic or other beneficial purposes, justify our opposition to the Bill. That opposition, as I say, has not been abated in the slightest. I think we must indicate that fact by a vote on the Final Stage.

Captain Cowan

I have been opposed to this measure on all stages. I was opposed to it, in the first instance, because I thought that the problem had not been worked out as it should have been and that, to a large extent, this Bill and the agency it proposes to set up are in the nature of a shot in the dark. Now, on an early stage of the Bill the problem of Partition was mentioned—and that the agency created by the Bill would be an effective instrument in drawing the attention of the world to the evils of Partition. I felt that there had been what I may term a letting down by the Bill of the enthusiasm that had been created not so long ago in regard to Partition. I felt that that enthusiasm in regard to Partition had been created on a nationwide scale, and that the young people particularly had been given the idea that some leadership should be given to them in regard to this problem of Partition.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy knows that this is a News Agency Bill, and that Deputies can discuss only what is in the Bill.

Captain Cowan

I feel that the Bill, as it is now before the House, will have the effect of damping whatever enthusiasm had been created, and to that extent it is objectionable. I do not like the sort of company that is visualised in the Bill—the setting up of a news agency which, as has been pointed out, is not a news agency at all, and the formation of a company which is really not a company. I felt, and I still feel, that the sum of money mentioned by the Minister—£25,000 a year—will be largely thrown down the drain, because I am informed by experienced journalists that most of the material emanating from news agencies of this type finds its way into the wastepaper basket. If that is so, we will be paying a very large sum of money for something which will be no effective instrument from the national point of view. The Bill proposes, as one of its objects, to put our case in regard to Partition before the world. I feel the world knows all that there is to be known in regard to the evil of Partition ——

Mr. C. Lehane

Nonsense.

Captain Cowan

——and that it is not by writing more or talking more about that evil that it will be ended in our time. Twenty-five thousand pounds may be an accurate estimate or it may be inaccurate; it may be much above the mark or it may be below the mark, but it is a round figure, anyway, of the approximate cost of this agency for a year. That works out roughly at £300 a week. I think that £500 a week could be better spent than in the way this Bill proposes to spend it. A hundred men now unemployed receiving £5 a week would contribute more to the benefit of the country than £25,000 spent in this way. I may be wrong, and I hope I am. When we have as a Parliament adopted a measure of this kind, every one of us must wish that it will have some success. How can we find out what the success of this measure will be? Will it be possible for the news agency itself to let us know how many words produced by it find publicity in the journals of foreign nations? If we could have that, it would be of some help to us.

At all stages of the Bill I expressed my doubts as to its utility and its ultimate success, but if, notwithstanding what I have said, the venture is a success, there will be no one more ready than I to acknowledge my mistake in regard to it. I hope my view is mistaken. Twenty-five thousand pounds may seem a small sum so far as the country is concerned, but nevertheless, it is a substantial sum and if it is to be expended it ought to be expended on the achievement of something worth while. I know the Minister will have difficulties in finding his board of directors, his staff and his advisory board, and it is quite possible some of the matters arising out of the exercise of those powers may come before the House from time to time, particularly on the Estimates.

Having opposed the Bill at every stage, I feel, now that it is about to pass through the House, it should, in its infancy, get a reasonable chance; in other words, if there is criticism to be levelled at the agency in its operation, that criticism should be withheld for such time as will give the agency an opportunity of finding its feet.

Mr. Lynch

This Bill, now in its Fifth Stage, is reasonably certain of becoming law, not particularly on its merits, but largely by reason of the machined majority of the Government. I feel, and in fact I am convinced, that there are many Deputies on the Government Benches who are less keen on the passage of this Bill than some of us on the Opposition Benches. However, we have now reached the stage when almost of a certainty some £25,000 will be voted out of public funds for a certain service. I think the time is opportune to examine what means we have of providing this service before this measure sees the light of day. When this Government came into power they had the best means of providing the service this Bill proposes to provide and that was a short-wave station.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy must not discuss the short-wave station on this stage.

Mr. Lynch

Surely, when I am discussing the objects of this Bill——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy must not discuss the objects of the Bill; he must confine himself to what is in the measure. He had an opportunity on the Second Stage to discuss anything he considered useful to discuss. Now we are limited to what is in the Bill.

Mr. Lynch

Right through the consideration of this measure the Opposition were accused of obstructionist tactics. If the tactics of the Opposition were obstructionist, I think they were justified by virtue of the contents of the Bill. It might be useful to examine to what extent the obstructionist charge is justified. So far as I can assess, the Second Stage took six and a half hours. The Committee Stage lasted about eight hours, so up to this we devoted some 15 hours to the consideration of the Bill. I think that answers any charge of obstruction on our part. I think I might be allowed to refer to a statement issued by the Government Information Bureau when the Bill was under consideration before the Summer Recess.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not want to interfere with the Deputy, but already he has had opportunities on the Second, the Committee and the Report Stages. He must confine himself now to what is in the Bill and I feel he is wandering from that.

Mr. Lynch

I can assure the Chair that it is inexperience in the House that is letting me wander.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am not anxious to be too rigid, but I am giving the Deputy a plain hint.

Mr. Lynch

I think the public know very well what this Bill seeks to enact. It is seeking to put before the world at large views of value and interest concerning this country that the Minister and the Government feel should be put before the world. Before ever the Bill was introduced, we had sufficient means adequately to put before the world the Irish viewpoint on every topic of interest to the country. I suggest that this Bill cannot do much more than could be done with the services that existed when the Government came into power. Those services were quite capable of providing all that this measure seeks to provide.

Mr. Sheehan

I have listened very attentively to the debate on this Bill. I think it is at least worth a trial. The amount involved is not very great and after a year or two it would be quite easy to close it down if the service did not pay. Deputy Cowan said that the world knows all about Partition. I am satisfied the world does not know and if this Bill merely serves to make known to the world the injustice of Partition, it will be doing a really good day's work. I have been in America for four years in succession. I have visited numerous Irish clubs throughout the length and breadth of the United States of America and, as a result of my experience, I say without fear of contradiction that there are hundreds of thousands of our people abroad who do not know the true story of Partition. At least the Bill will serve the useful purpose of informing those people and all others who are interested as to what the real story is. At least in that respect this Bill will do a good day's work. The amount involved is very small. I appeal to both sides to support the Bill and to give it a fair trial.

Mr. C. Lehane

This Bill was laid before the House with the object of setting up an Irish news agency. Every conceivable argument, valid and invalid, that could be advanced against the setting up of this agency was advanced.

Mr. Lemass

No.

Mr. C. Lehane

I put a specific question to Deputy Lemass when he was speaking on this measure. I asked him in what respects he considered we differed from any other country which operates such an agency. I cited the example of Sweden to him and Sweden, as we all know, operates an agency very similar to this.

Mr. Lemass

The objection is to a Government news agency.

Mr. C. Lehane

The agency operated in Sweden is State operated and is controlled by the Swedish Parliament. At every stage of this measure objections were advanced. We had objection to the type of company; we had objection to the share capital; we even had objection to the minutiae, such as the question as to whether or not it should be a State solicitor or a solicitor in private practice who would draft the articles of association. No measure that has gone through this House since I came into it some 20 months ago, with the possible exception of the Local Authorities (Works) Act, has received the raking criticism from the Opposition that this Bill has received. I must confess that the high hopes I had for this news agency have greatly diminished as a result of the attitude adopted by the Opposition and, indeed, by Deputies on the Government Benches too, who were critical of the measure. The argument was advanced by Deputy Lemass that a Government news agency such as this was bound to be received with suspicion by newspaper people all the world over. I think I am entitled at least to challenge contradiction on this: I think that the attitude adopted by both Deputy Lemass and Deputy Captain Cowan, who were the two main critics of this measure, was an attitude calculated to engender that very suspicion which, they suggested, was one of the reasons why they would withhold their support from the Bill. I believe that, if there had been a cooperative approach from both sides of the House, we would have been able to set up a news agency competent to put Ireland's case before the world in the way it should be put and in the way it has not been put up to this.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is surely a Second Reading speech.

Mr. C. Lehane

Perhaps I have strayed from the terms of the Bill itself. The provisions in the Bill make it possible to set up a vehicle whereby the Irish point of view can be put over in the four ends of the earth. On the other hand, the send-off that this measure has received, even in the closing stages to-night, does not augur well for its future success. Even at this late hour I believe it should be possible, with the co-operation of the Opposition, to give a fair trial to this vehicle which the Bill proposes to set up. In that way perhaps some of the harm that has been done by the critics of this Bill may be undone.

Mr. Little

The Bill, as it now appears before us, has gone through the amending stage and the Opposition has failed to carry any amendments which might to some extent have satisfied their misgivings in connection with the provisions of the Bill. Our approach to the Bill was a serious and a conscientious one. We felt that £25,000 a year was involved in it. We are responsible for the taxpayers' money and it is our duty to examine closely any proposal that comes before us which involves the expenditure of their money. Once we had made up our minds that the money involved in this would be money wasted, it was our duty in those circumstances to oppose the Bill as vigorously as we could.

I am afraid that the Minister and some members of the Government do not fully appreciate the fundamentals of our parliamentary system. There is a great difference between obstruction and conscientious opposition. I do not think we could be accused of deliberately obstructing this measure from a purely parliamentary point of view, appreciating the traditions of a democratic parliamentary system. The fact that we are accused of obstruction is not used so much for the purpose of argument here as for outside advertisement, particularly in election campaigns where we are subjected to all manner of distorted and exaggerated criticism accusing us of obstruction towards every measure brought forward by the Government. We have adopted a consistent policy of supporting the Government where the measures proposed by them were for the general good of the country. Where we felt public money was being wasted, we have opposed the Government as vigorously as we could oppose them. Perhaps on some occasions we have not opposed them sufficiently vigorously.

Deputy Captain Cowan was, I think, the most severe critic of this measure. Possibly he has taken more time in the House to criticise this Bill than has any other Deputy. To-night we are faced with a volte face. He makes us giddy by telling us at the last moment that we should accept the Bill. Once an individual makes up his mind to oppose something, it is difficult to understand how he can at the last minute turn round, accept it and support it.

Captain Cowan

I did not say that. What I did say was that when it becomes law, give it a reasonable time before we start to criticise it.

Mr. Little

I accept the amendment on the part of the Deputy. The case of Sweden has been instanced. We are all very interested in the bulletin which is issued from the Swedish Legation. Surely a bulletin similar to that could be issued through the ordinary channels of the legation. Further, we do not see anything quoted from these bulletins in the daily papers. They are very valuable from the point of view of giving information to people in influential positions. All propaganda, from the Irish point of view, should aim at influencing influential people. If we could bring such influence to bear upon the great British newspapers and the big American newspapers or upon people who really can swing decisions in the Government, we feel that it would be infinitely better than spending money on a news agency which, everybody knows, however well-intentioned, represents a point of view and not just factual news without a tendency one way or the other. Therefore, our attitude in regard to the matter is that we think that if money is to be spent on propaganda it should be spent in a different way. I am as keen as anybody to have proper propaganda carried out and I have had some little experience in that respect. I think there are ways in which it could be done infinitely better than this way. We honestly feel that this money is going to be wasted and that, after a few years, we shall find that the project will probably be brought to a conclusion because it has ceased to serve a useful purpose.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Little is making a Second Reading speech.

Mr. Little

I am criticising the Bill as it is now——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It escapes me. The Deputy is arguing in a general way. He must argue in connection with what is in the Bill.

Mr. Little

Am I permitted to answer arguments?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I stopped Deputy Lehane. Deputy Little should not follow the bad example set by Deputy Lehane.

Mr. Little

Do we get a further opportunity of answering Deputy Lehane?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair is not going to submit to crossexamination. Deputy Little is making a Second Reading speech.

Mr. Little

If I cannot pursue Deputy Lehane's points and answer them, I do not think I can say any more now.

Mr. Byrne

I avail of the opportunity to congratulate the Minister on getting his Bill, to the extent to which he has got it. I differ from a number of speakers when they say that damage has been done by the criticism that has been made. I think a lot of good has come out of the criticism. We got certain guarantees from the Minister. We are told that he has satisfied the journalists and those interested in trade union matters. I was one of the first to encourage the Minister, and I compliment him on bringing in the Bill.

I have been going round a little bit and, in other countries, I have heard and read in the newspapers attacks on our country. If, through this Bill, the agency can take up the defence of this country and not allow these lying attacks and misrepresentation of our country go without contradiction, and if they are able to contradict those who slander our country and misrepresent it, I think it will be the best £25,000 ever spent by any Department.

I said before that it appears to be forgotten by a good many people that there is a greater Irish population across the water than there is in this country. They are everywhere.

Mr. Little

Is this in the Bill?

Mr. Byrne

When you meet them in groups, they ask: "What are you doing at home about us here? Can we not get some more information about the country? All we get is a line or two in foreign newspapers which are misrepresenting us."

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I would remind the Deputy that we are dealing with the Fifth Stage of this Bill.

Mr. Byrne

All this is included in it. I am encouraging the Minister——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair is perfectly certain it is not in the Bill.

Mr. Byrne

I am encouraging the Minister to get going quickly, to avail of everything in the Bill and to do all that it is possible to do to defend the country and our countrymen abroad.

Mr. MacBride

The alternative to the creation of the news agency proposed by this Bill would be that we should voluntarily debar ourselves from ensuring that news of Ireland— economic news, cultural news, political news and general news—should be presented to the world through Irish spectacles. I want to make it clear that I do not say that all news emanating from Ireland is deliberately distorted. Sometimes I think it is. Some portion of the news sent out from this country is deliberately distorted, not here but elsewhere. But what happens in the bulk of cases is that news is sent out from here, sifted and sub-edited— usually in London—by journalists who are, maybe, very good journalists but who are not familiar with Irish politics or Irish events, who have preconceived views about Ireland and who like to look upon Irish events as matters of amusement, usually. Accordingly, we inevitably get a slant and a slant which is usually unfavourable to this country. Apart from that, we very often suffer from non-publication of news which is favourable to this country. I say that that very often happens because the news is dealt with by people who are not interested in Ireland. Take, for instance, the journalist or the subeditor who has to choose between an item of news which is an English item and an item of news which is an Irish item to send out to the world. If he is an Englishman he will, naturally, be more interested in the English item of news and he will, accordingly, send it out.

References have been made by speakers to the obstruction in the course of the passage of the Bill. I think that if Deputy Lemass is candid with himself he will realise that there has been obstruction. It may be due to irritation. I do not know what it is due to, but now the Bill is about to pass and I would appeal to Deputy Lemass and to the Opposition to accept it wholeheartedly as a useful instrument of publicity for this country and to co-operate with the Government in the working of the news agency. Deputy Lemass based his argument to-day on the Fifth Stage on the ground that there was no necessity for such a news agency, that there was no need to put out news about Ireland, that another agency is doing it and doing it very efficiently and that there was no distortion. That is not the view which Deputy de Valera expressed when he spoke on this Bill on the Second Stage. I quote from the Official Reports of the 13th July of this year where Deputy de Valera said:—

"The need of putting Ireland's case before the world and of having Irish news objectively reported is very real."

That seems to be in complete conflict with the attitude Deputy Lemass took up to-day. Earlier, on the 20th July of this year, Deputy de Valera, speaking in this House, said:—

"It is only those who have been away from this country for any length of time can realise the importance of that contact. Newspapers in other countries, if they carry any information at all about this country, it will be, you may be sure, information in the main that is to our detriment. It is about something sensational that has happened in this country and the unfortunate thing is that those who get only the sensational are inclined to think that the sensational is the normal, as it is the only information that they get. They get some wrong impressions of this country just as we might, for instance, get a wrong impression of a city like Chicago from the way in which certain happenings in that city were depicted here.

Apart from the accidental circumstance, due to the nature of news, that it is only sensational things as a rule that are sent abroad, there is the fact that in the past there has been deliberate propaganda against our country. It was one of the means by which the Power that held this country in the past tried to justify its hold on it."

I could not agree more with every word Deputy de Valera said in these passages and they emphasise the importance and necessity of ensuring that Irish news will be presented to the world from an Irish viewpoint and through Irish spectacles and not left to be presented through the spectacles of another nation.

Captain Cowan

Did the Minister say that there would not be any hot news in the ordinary sense?

Mr. MacBride

Yes, certainly.

Mr. Lemass

Would the Minister say if it is intended to put any restriction upon commercial news agencies oper ating in this country?

Mr. MacBride

No.

Mr. Lemass

They will still continue to operate and newspapers will still continue to get their services exactly as at present?

Mr. MacBride

Of course. There was never any suggestion to put any bar or restrictions on any news agency. In the Bill it was never suggested that anything of that kind was sought or contemplated. We are merely doing by this Bill what every other country in Europe has done years ago. Deputy Lemass referred to the Havas agency. I had the honour of being on the staff of the Havas News Agency for a number of years. The Havas News Agency has been subsidised by the French Government for years back.

Mr. Lemass

It is changing its name.

Mr. MacBride

It changed its name some time during the war and became the Agence France Presse. The only point of controversy is as to the method of control, and we are familiar with the details of that controversy. But no Frenchman, indeed no continental, would contemplate the idea of not having a news agency in his country to put out its news.

Mr. Lemass

Some Frenchmen seem to have.

Mr. MacBride

No. It was purely and simply as to the method of control. Most European news agencies, if not directly controlled and subsidised by the Government of the country, are indirectly controlled and subsidised by it, sometimes by way of cable or postal facilities.

Mr. Lemass

That is correct if you are counting both sides of the Iron Curtain.

Mr. MacBride

No, it is this side of the Iron Curtain I am talking about at the moment. Inside, of course, they are completely controlled, there is no alternative. I am talking about democratic countries in Western Europe. There is no democratic country in Western Europe that has not got its own news agency. In some cases they have two Government sponsored and subsidised agencies.

I need not talk in the abstract of the need for such an agency. We had one case here not very long ago during the elections in the Six Counties. A message was sent out by a reputable and very well known news agency from Belfast giving an account of some disturbances that took place at some election meetings. The House may remember that there were some disturbances in the course of some Labour Party election meetings in Belfast held by Mr. Beattie. The House may remember the descriptions in our newspapers here of oranges containing razor blades being thrown at the meetings and speakers being injured. I can show to this House reports published in the Press of the world saying that these were Loyalist meetings broken up by republican desperadoes who used razor blades and that Mr. Beattie was in effect a Partitionist candidate. They went all over the world.

Mr. Lemass

How will this Bill stop it?

Mr. MacBride

At least it will give the other side of the picture.

Mr. Lemass

Is it suggested that the agency sent out wrong stories?

Mr. MacBride

I will give the Deputy further details. That story was properly reported, as far as I could place it, from Belfast. The distortion occurred in London and travelled all over the world. I have stacks of copies.

Captain Cowan

Was it distored in London?

Mr. MacBride

As far as I know it left Belfast correctly and reached New York, Melbourne and all over the world distorted and was published by the newspapers distorted. I got the most fulsome apology from the news agency concerned and they corrected it two days after, but I did not see one single correction published. Naturally enough, no newspaper likes to print a correction showing that its report was wrong.

Captain Cowan

Suppose you had your agency what would happen.

Mr. Lemass

The same thing.

Mr. MacBride

My agency would have been on the wire on the spot and given the right story. I knew it on the spot, immediately it was sent out, but it took me two days before I could get a correction and an apology from the agency.

That is one instance. There is another instance. The House may remember that at the time that members of the Government went for some discussion with the British Ministers at Chequers the Press of the world for about 24 hours was flooded with propaganda that was hostile to the Government in relation to the repeal of the External Relations Act. A completely false picture was given of the whole situation and we had no means of dealing with it.

Mr. Lemass

But you could have had the shortwave broadcasting station.

Mr. MacBride

May I put this test to the Deputy? Who listens to foreign stations? How many Deputies here sit down in the evening and turn on a foreign news station?

Mr. Lemass

I will answer that by saying that far more news editors in newspaper offices listen to foreign broadcasts than read what is sent out by foreign news agencies.

Mr. MacBride

I will not accept that. I have been through many newspaper offices and I very seldom found newspaper sub-editors or reporters listening to wireless stations. They usually have too much work to do.

I can give endless instances, of a more minor character, of news distortion of which I have had experience in the last year in the Department of External Affairs. We get reports from our missions abroad, reports published about the country, and hardly a week passes when there is not some minor, if not gross, distortion. That being so —and the Opposition know that it is so, and Deputy Lemass has set out the position clearly himself—I would appeal to the Opposition, at this stage, to co-operate with the Government in ensuring that this news agency will be a success.

Deputy Cowan suggested that the House should refrain from criticising it too soon. I do not know what Deputy Cowan considers too soon, but I think it is a very good suggestion. There is nothing that can be more damaging to a news agency than constant criticism from within its own country. Therefore, I would ask the Opposition to co-operate fully in building this news agency into an instrument which will be of value to the country, not merely from the political point of view, but also, I hope from the economical, cultural and tourist point of view. I think it can do a lot in those spheres of activity, and I would ask the House to co-operate fully with it.

Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 67; Níl, 60.

Tá

• Beirne, John.
• Belton, John.
• Blowick, Joseph.
• Brennan, Joseph P.
• Browne, Noel C.
• Browne, Patrick.
• Byrne, Alfred.
• Byrne, Alfred Patrick.
• Coburn, James.
• Collins, Seán.
• Commons, Bernard.
• Corish, Brendan.
• Cosgrave, Liam.
• Costello, John A.
• Crotty, Patrick J.
• Davin, William.
• Desmond, Daniel.
• Dockrell, Maurice E.
• Donnellan, Michael.
• Doyle, Peadar S.
• Dunne, Seán.
• Esmonde, Sir John L.
• Everett, James.
• Fagan, Charles.
• Finucane, Patrick.
• Fitzpatrick, Michael.
• Flynn, John.
• Giles, Patrick.
• Halliden, Patrick J.
• Hickey, James.
• Hogan, Patrick.
• Hughes, Joseph.
• Keyes, Michael.
• Kinane, Patrick.
• Kyne, Thomas A.
• Larkin, James.
• Lehane, Con.
• Lehane, Patrick D.
• McAuliffe, Patrick.
• MacBride, Seán.
• MacEoin, Seán.
• McFadden, Michael Og.
• McGilligan, Patrick.
• McMenamin, Daniel.
• McQuillan, John.
• Mongan, Joseph W.
• Morrissey, Daniel.
• Mulcahy, Richard.
• Norton, William.
• O'Donnell, Patrick.
• O'Gorman, Patrick J.
• O'Higgins, Michael J.
• O'Higgins, Thomas F.
• O'Higgins, Thomas F. (Jun.).
• O'Leary, John.
• O'Sullivan, Martin.
• Palmer, Patrick W.
• Pattison, James P.
• Redmond, Bridget M.
• Reidy, James.
• Reynolds, Mary.
• Roddy, Joseph.
• Rooney, Eamonn.
• Sheehan, Michael.
• Spring, Daniel.
• Sweetman, Gerard.
• Tully, John.

Níl

• Aiken, Frank.
• Allen, Denis.
• Bartley, Gerald.
• Beegan, Patrick.
• Blaney, Neal T.
• Boland, Gerald.
• Bourke, Dan.
• Brady, Seán.
• Breathnach, Cormac.
• Brennan, Thomas.
• Breslin, Cormac.
• Briscoe, Robert.
• De Valera, Eamon.
• De Valera, Vivion.
• Flynn, Stephen.
• Friel, John.
• Gilbride, Eugene.
• Gorry, Patrick J.
• Harris, Thomas.
• Hilliard, Michael.
• Kennedy, Michael J.
• Kilioy, James.
• Kissane, Eamon.
• Kitt, Michael F.
• Lahiffe, Robert.
• Lemass, Seán F.
• Little, Patrick J.
• Lydon, Michael F.
• Lynch, John.
• McEllistrim, Thomas.
• Buckley, Seán.
• Burke, Patrick.
• Butler, Bernard.
• Carter, Thomas.
• Childers, Erskine H.
• Colley, Harry.
• Collins, James J.
• Corry, Martin J.
• Cowan, Peadar.
• Crowley, Honor Mary.
• Davern, Michael J.
• Derrig, Thomas.
• McGrath, Patrick.
• Maguire, Patrick J.
• Moylan, Seán.
• O'Briain, Donnchadh.
• O'Grady, Seán.
• O'Reilly, Matthew.
• Ormonde, John.
• O'Rourke, Daniel.
• O'Sullivan, Tod.
• Rice, Bridget M.
• Ruttledge, Patrick J.
• Ryan, James.
• Ryan, Mary B.
• Sheridan, Michael.
• Smith, Patrick.
• Traynor, Oscar.
• Walsh, Richard.
• Walsh, Thomas.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Doyle and Kyne; Níl, Deputies Kissane and Kennedy.

Question declared carried.