A good deal of the queries put during the course of the debate on forestry centred on the expansion of the forestry programme which was announced by me some time ago. I think it would be better to let the House know what exactly the position was when we decided to increase the planting programme from in the neighbourhood of 5,000 or 6,000 acres per year to 25,000 acres. I want Deputies to understand that the complete success of the programme depends on (1) the acquisition of land and (2) the procurement of sufficient seeds each year to maintain a steady stock of something in the neighbourhood of 45,000,000 transplants per year once they have reached the stage at which they can be planted out.
Deputies from time to time table parliamentary questions and ask me why offers are not accepted and why the Forestry Department is not moving faster. Up to about a year ago the whole question of acquisition of land was dealt with by one officer. I want the Deputies to realise that. At the time of the change of Government only one officer in the Forestry Department dealt with the acquisition of land. I would emphasise that each offer must be inspected by an experienced inspector who has to walk every single acre of the ground offered. He has to appraise it for suitability and determine whether it will grow timber or not. He has to furnish in his report a fairly close figure in respect of improvements which may be necessary—such as draining, fencing and so forth—before the land can be planted and, finally, he must recommend a price. When we take into account that only one acquisition officer had the entire responsibility of covering the whole of the Twenty-Six Counties we get some idea of why the offers of 150,000 or 160,000 acres, which poured in immediately after an expansion of the programme was announced, were not taken up as rapidly as myself and every Deputy in the House would like to see them taken up. That staff has now been increased to eight—from one man to eight. Even with eight it is totally insufficient. I will be getting six more acquisition inspectors in the near future. That will make 14 altogether and I will not be satisfied until there is an acquisition officer placed in each of the Twenty-Six Counties.
If we can succeed in getting the land into our hands, the rest of the work will be comparatively easy. The great trouble is to get the land. Most of it in the mountainous areas, where the biggest chance of developing forestry exists, is held in commonage. It might, perhaps, be owned by as many as from five to 25 or 45 tenants; they all might have grazing rights over it. These rights might be vested with the parent holdings on which they reside. I might be allowed to quote one case. In an area in County Mayo, where we aim at getting a block of 3,000 acres, we will have to deal with 118 tenants before we secure the block. That will bring home to Deputies how necessary it is to have our staff increased.
It might be said that now that we have eight instead of one, and that soon we will have 14, the work should go on fairly quickly, but let me point out that it takes at least 12 months before even the best of our young men can have sufficient skill and experience to judge the quality of the land and give a fair valuation in the matter of price. For that reason new men will not be able to pull their full weight until they have been a certain time in the job. By the time the seeds we sowed last year will be fit for transplanting—that is, in about two years— I expect we will have a sufficient staff well able to cope with the problem of acquisition.
The question of forestry is, or should be, linked very closely with the problem of the Land Commission in relieving congestion. I said last year, and I repeat it, that in the areas where the quality of the land is poor from an agricultural point of view, the Forestry Department can be of immense benefit to the people there. The Land Commission can improve their condition; in the case of rundale or intermixed holdings, they can put the land into one or two compact lots and they can give the people decent dwelling-houses and out-offices and improve the roads, but they cannot improve the quality of the land. They can help to remove a good deal of the slavery that the small farmers have to put up with, but they cannot improve the standard of living of these tenants to the extent they could, if they were dealing with congestion or rundale holdings, on the arable land of the plains.
To that extent the Land Commission and the Forestry Department are working closely hand in hand. The Land Commission are interested in rearrangement and the establishment of economic holdings. They ask tenants to surrender their existing holdings so that more economic holdings will be readily available. They cannot, however, improve the land and the next best thing to do is to use the rougher or coarser land for the production of timber. Until we have 1,000,000 or 1,250,000 acres of forestry, we cannot say that we have the land working to its maximum output. The proper way to use the land is to take the arable land and establish as many people as possible on it in economic security. Now, take the non-arable or the marginal land which is capable of reclamation. The Minister for Agriculture has an excellent scheme on hands and that, coupled with the work that is proceeding under the Local Authorities (Works) Act, which is administered through the Department of Local Government, will go a long way towards improving rural conditions in this country.
The barren heather-covered land along the mountain sides and in the valleys between the mountains can be made to produce something this country wants, and for which we will have to find sterling or dollars. I refer now to the need for our own supplies of timber. That land could be made to give almost the same amount of employment as if it were arable land and at the same time it will be producing a national asset which will be of immense benefit. It will enable us to have our own supplies of timber. That will give a good deal of employment. It will help to stop emigration. Experts say that it will improve our climate. It will definitely improve the country's scenic attractions.
After the acquisition of the land, procuring seeds is the next important step. We cannot get all our seed requirements from foreign parts. Deputy Moylan seems to be in some doubt, and he suggests there was some mistake made about the quantities of seeds. If he goes back over the parliamentary questions he asked he will find that the fullest information was given him as regards quantities of seeds. It appeared to me that he deliberately picked on certain figures given for one species of seed and he tried to convey the impression that only 590 lbs. of seed of one particular species have come in. He tried to mislead the House. The figure mentioned was 4,000 lbs. of seed. The reply I gave to his question indicated quite clearly what the position was. I said a certain quantity of seed had come in and that the remainder was on the way in.
He did not ask for particulars of home collected seed, of which we are getting an increased quantity year by year, both from the State forests and also thanks to certain private woodland owners who allow the Department to collect a quantity of their seeds. The home collected seeds seem to give far better results than the very best imported seeds. That is natural and easily understandable. Those seeds have become acclimatised. Most of our seeds come from British Columbia: some come from Canada and some from the United States. The climatic conditions there may be different. All our home collected seeds produce better seedlings and transplants in the nurseries and they seem to do better in the forests.
The total amount of seed planted last year was 14,200 lbs. The amount of seed we are going to use this year is 14,160 lbs. I want that on the records in case Deputy Moylan or somebody else will be interested, and I want to set his mind at rest. It appeared to me at the time that he was deliberately trying to mislead the House or to say something which would give rise to a certain amount of doubt in the minds of people up and down the country as to what exactly was happening.
During the year, a new kiln of a special type was constructed at Avondale for the purpose of extracting home-collected seeds from the cones. It has been a first class success and a considerable quantity of first class seed has been extracted by this means, whereas heretofore we had not the proper equipment for extracting it.
After acquisition and seeds, comes the question of nursery land. The amount of nursery land was in the neighbourhood of 300 acres which was ample for the programme followed up to this. In order to have sufficient nursery ground to meet the 25,000-acre programme, we will have to purchase between 400 and 500 extra acres of nursery land. It is very rarely that a suitable piece of land comes to hand for nursery purposes. The soil must be of a fertile nature and must not be either too acid or contain too much lime. It must be of a loose, pliable nature and must not be the kind of soil which will become pasty in wet weather, and, when dried out, will form a hard impervious coat through which the young seeds cannot force their way. There must be a certain amount of sand or gravel through the soil and the land must be centrally situated, because it does not do to carry transplants over long distances from the point of view of the knocking about they get in transit, on the one hand, and the cost of transport, on the other. Nursery ground of a suitable type is coming in bit by bit, but, until we have built up an area of between 740 and 780 acres of nurseries all over the country, we will not have sufficient. That, however, is not a very serious aspect of the problem. Even though nursery land of a particular type and in a particular location is not easy to come by, we do not anticipate any difficulty in getting our requirements in the matter of the small acreage needed.
Fencing material, which is also a very important item in forestry work, is becoming plentiful now and there are no difficulties about getting our requirements. I do not think we would be justified in laying in a huge store for three, four or five years' work because the world situation at present does not indicate that there will be any shortage or any breakdown of supplies. During the year, two drying kilns were established at the sawmills in Dundrum, County Tipperary, and, although they have been in action only for a short time, they have clearly proved that Irish-grown timber, properly treated, is second to none and is of even a better quality than the best imported timber. These kilns were more or less a feeler or experiment, but, in theshort time in which they have been in use, they have proved such a success that in Cong, County Mayo, there will be two, if not four, erected and more erected in Dundrum, where there is a reasonably good supply of first-class commercial timber which will be available for a period of 25 or 30 years, even if felling is greatly accelerated.
That is as good a picture of the situation as I can give. Some Deputies on the other side seemed to think, in connection with the announcement as to the 25,000-acre programme, that these 25,000 acres should be sown the following year. The land is not coming in rapidly enough for the reason I have explained, that we had not the inspectorial staff adequate to deal with it. That is being set right and will not create any difficulty, but when the seeds are sown, it takes a period of three years to bring the seedlings to the strength at which they can be transplanted finally to the forest. Deputy Davern produced something last week—I could not see what it was, although I was near him—and I wondered if he had been at the Spring Show where we had a stand and where there were on exhibition some yearling seedlings in a small box to let people see what they were like. It struck me that he might have taken one of these with him and produced it here. In any case, he treated the whole thing more or less as a joke.
The transplants to be set out on the forest ground finally must have their root systems so well developed that they will be able to stand up to transplanting from the fairly rich fertile nursery ground to a patch of barren peat of poor quality, in some cases. Secondly, the part of the transplant which is over ground must be sufficiently tall to cope with the ordinary growth of grass and weeds around it and to get enough sunlight for its young leaves to live during the first or second summer. It would be pure madness to plant the kind of thing the Deputy exhibited here, which was more like a feather than anything else. When I challenged him to tell me where he saw these transplants done by the Forestry Department, he passed it off as a joke. I do not regard forestry as a joke and Deputy Davern, in whose constituency there is a considerable acreage of excellent work done by the Forestry Department, should not treat it as lightly as he appeared to treat it.
Deputy Kennedy from Westmeath asserted once again, as he asserted last year, that only good land will grow good timber. That is not so. Good land will grow good timber, but I want to state clearly and emphatically that certain species of timber sown on dry mountainside and moorland are thriving very well. Plantations put down 15, 20 and 30 years ago are thriving remarkably well on what could not by any means be described as anything but poor land. The good land in Meath or Westmeath will produce excellent timber, but, if we are to make proper use of our land, we must use the arable land for the production of food. We must reclaim and drain the semi-arable or marginal land and put it also into food production. I can assure the House that we will then have plenty land left, as anyone who looks at the survey map in the Lobby will see, land that will grow excellent timber. In regard to the survey being made, I should say that it shows only land that will definitely and without question grow timber, but there are other areas which are not coloured yellow on that map which will also grow timber because, as the years go on, methods will be found to improve that land or to induce plants to grow on it, which we might not be able to do now.
Deputy Kennedy had a very gloomy outlook with regard to forestry which I do not share. We hear a lot of talk in this House about emigration and I have not got the slightest doubt that afforestation will contribute more than any other single item of Government or State activity to the stopping of emigration and the flight from the land. We cannot close our eyes to the fact that the greatest movement from the land is from the areas where the quality of land is poorest, the reason being that people were pushed back into these areas 150 or 200 years ago and overcrowding still exists there. It is from these areas that the people are still flying and it is in these areas that the Land Commission is doing its best to ease the position. The work of the Land Commission will necessarily be slow, but the Forestry Department can definitely nail down the population in these areas and give them a useful type of employment and a decent standard of living in these areas from which they would otherwise have to fly. I am very clear and very emphatic about that, because I am all to familiar with it in my own county. I see some of it in Galway, in Clare, in Donegal and in Leitrim, to a certain extent, in portions of Sligo, in West Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford—in practically every county, with the exception of a few midland counties, where the land is mainly of good quality. I do not hold the gloomy view that afforestation is not going to be a success.
Deputy Burke mentioned shelter belts and suggested that there should be a tree planting day for schools. If something could be done to make school children realise the value of trees and the importance of the care of trees, and to inculcate in them a respect for growing trees, it would be very useful.
Deputy Pattison brought to my notice that workers are requested in some cases to use their own bicycles to carry tools and so on. I am glad the Deputy raised that matter. I did not know that and I will take it up. He also suggested that foresters or foremen should not use military-sounding orders. It is only fair to say that in most forest centres there exists a very nice spirit of harmony between the foremen and the workers. They all pull together. They like their job very well and take great interest in it. There may be a forest foreman, perhaps, who might like to exercise his authority. I would not like that to happen. In most centres there is goodwill between the foreman and the forest workers, and I would not like that there should be an occasional foreman who wanted to show his authority a bit too much or who was officious in knocking the best out of the men.
Deputy O'Grady referred to experimental plantations. I want to assure the Deputy that there is no need for them because in almost every parish and district there is on somebody's land growing timber which gives sufficient indication of the suitability of the area for the purpose of afforestation. The acquisition officer in the Land Commission and the seven young men whom he is engaged in training at the moment are extremely well skilled in judging the soil and vegetation in particular areas. In a very short time they are able to give almost certain judgments as to whether the land is suitable for timber or not and also as to the species that will thrive best on it. The really difficult part of an acquisition officer's work is the judging of the land and correctly appraising as to the quality of the soil and what it is fit to do.
Deputy O'Grady and other Deputies referred to the replanting condition attached to felling licences issued during the war. Not one of those people who got felling licences to which a replanting condition was attached will escape the net. However, being short of seeds as a result of the war, like ourselves, the privately-owned nurseries are not yet in a position to supply a sufficient quantity of transplants. I would be safe in saying that even this year they will be able to supply only about one-fifth of the total amount of trees which must be planted under these replanting conditions, which stretch back to the beginning of the emergency period. Until the privately-owned nurseries are in a position to meet that demand, we have no business to try to enforce replanting conditions. No one will get away without replanting.
Deputy Cogan suggested that fire lanes should be wider. At present, the fire lanes are 16 feet wide and there is a fire lane right across about every 200 yards. Every forest is fairly well crisscrossed with suitable fire breaks. While over 400 acres went up in smoke last year, in almost every case it was through the carelessness of people who were picnicking or holiday-making and who did not realise the damage they could cause. Four hundred acres are a fairly serious amount to be burnt but, while we have forests, we will always have to put up with a certain amount of damage, through carelessness or otherwise. I am proud to say that the damage has never been through malice or through a spirit of wishing to do deliberate harm. We make every attempt possible to see that the notices warning people to be careful about causing fire are prominently displayed. Some people simply pass them by and do not seem to realise that they can do an immense amount of damage by being careless with matches, fires, or lighted cigarette ends.
