Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 13 Jun 1950

Vol. 121 No. 11

Land Bill, 1949—From the Seanad.

The Dáil went into Committee to consider amendments from the Seanad.

Minister for Lands (Mr. Blowick)

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 1:—

Before Section 6, a new section inserted as follows:—

6.—Where—

(a) possession has, whether before or after the passing of this Act, been taken of any land under Article 38 of the Emergency Powers Order, 1939 (S. R. & O., No. 224 of 1939), and

(b) the value of the land has been increased by any works carried out on the land at the cost of a Minister of State, the former Turf Development Board, Limited, or Bord na Móna during the period for which possession of the land was retained under the said Article 38, and

(c) the land is, within five years after possession thereof under the said Article 38 has been terminated, acquired or resumed under the Land Purchase Acts,

then, in fixing the price or compensation on the acquisition or resumption under those Acts and notwithstanding any other provision of this or any other Act, no account shall be taken of, or compensation allowed in respect of, any such increase in value.

This new section proposes to deal with land taken over by the Turf Development Board or the Department of Industry and Commerce in the same way as the present Section 6 relates to land taken over by county councils.

Mr. Moylan

We would like to be sure that the increased value of the land in this case should be the increased value from the point of view of the farmer and not the increased value from the point of view of the invading Department. Also, there is a limit of five years. If an increase in value has been created, has it been destroyed by the passing of the years? If five years, why not three years? After all, five years is a long span. I think the Minister should lessen that period. Principally, I want to be assured that this is a proposal in regard to an improvement from the farmer's point of view and not from that of the invading Department. It is quite possible that certain drains necessary by Bord na Móna or somebody else would make a farm of more value to that Department while it might not make it more valuable from the point of view of land.

Mr. Blowick

The improvements carried on by the Department of Lands under this section are obviously improvements to bogs on which Bord na Móna went in. The drainage will be an improvement.

Mr. Moylan

How will it?

Mr. Blowick

The farmers who own the land know that.

Mr. Moylan

What about the five years? Make it three.

Mr. Blowick

I will not.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 2:—

In sub-section (1), paragraph (c), page 4, to delete from "Any" in line 36 to the end of the paragraph and substitute "For the purposes of this paragraph, where any purchase annuity, annual sum or other payment is payable under the Land Purchase Acts in respect of the land and the date on which the Land Commission obtain possession of the land is not a gale day, such purchase annuity, annual sum or other payment shall be apportioned up to that date and shall be deemed to have accrued from day to day."

This is no more and no less than giving authority to the Land Commission to determine the annuity up to a given day, where such day would be between two gale days. It is really a drafting amendment.

Mr. Moylan

This means the rent does not run up to the gale day but is concluded on the day the land is taken over.

Mr. Blowick

Yes. It gives power to calculate it when possession is taken between two gale days.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 3:—

In sub-section (1), page 6, lines 41 and 42, "which is approved by an officer by virtue of sub-section (2) of this section" deleted.

This must be taken in conjunction with No. 4, on which it is really consequential. Through an oversight, the actual operation of the section in the case of a rearrangement scheme would mean putting the cart before the horse. An inspector would have to sanction a rearrangement scheme before he did it, whereas he must do the rearrangement scheme before he sanctions it.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 4:—

In page 7, the following sub-section substituted for sub-section (8):

(8) The following provisions shall have effect in relation to schemes for the rearrangement of lands held in rundale or inter-mixed plots whether with or without the distribution of other lands to facilitate the said rearrangement:—

(a) no such scheme shall be approved by virtue of sub-section (2) of this, section save by an officer;

(b) the Minister shall not authorise pursuant to that sub-section an officer to approve any such scheme unless the officer is an officer of the Land Commission and not below the rank of senior inspector.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 5:—

In sub-section (1), page 10, after the word "charge" in line 28, the words "or of any interest superior thereto", and, after the word "charge" in line 32, the words "or any interest superior thereto" inserted.

This is a drafting amendment to make the new section conform with the phraseology of Section 39 of the Land Act of 1923.

Mr. Moylan

This is meant to give a further relief to the owners of the land? You were giving relief up to a certain point and now you want to give further relief?

Mr. Blowick

No, this merely brings this section in this Bill into line with the wording of Section 39 of the 1923 Act.

Mr. Moylan

It operates to give further relief, does it not?

Mr. Blowick

No.

Mr. Moylan

After the word "charge" in line 28 the Minister proposes to insert "or of any interest superior thereto". For fear we would be charged with neglecting our duties as we were in the Seanad, I would direct the Minister's attention to "charge" in line 59. Is it necessary to add the word again?

Mr. Blowick

No, it is not.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 6:—

In sub-section (5), page 11, paragraph (ii) deleted and the following paragraph substituted:—

(ii) the arrears, not exceeding three years thereof, which have accrued due at the date of the advance,

together with 75 per cent. of the apportioned gale of such amount from the gale day next before the date of the advance up to that date where that date is not a gale day, and, save as aforesaid, no payment in respect of arrears of such amount shall be required to be made.

It is to correct a printer's error.

Mr. Moylan

The words are the same; the punctuation is the same; what is the difference?

Mr. Blowick

The alignment, I am told, is the trouble.

Mr. Moylan

It is only a matter of interest. I want to know what the difference is.

Mr. Blowick

The meaning taken out of the Bill before and after the amendment would be altogether different.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 7:—

In sub-section (3), page 13, line 20, "Any deficiency in the principal of any local loan" deleted and "A deficiency in the local loans fund" substituted.

This is a drafting amendment to bring the wording into line with Section 5.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 8:—

In page 13, line 41, "so held in conjunction" deleted and "purchased or subject to a purchase agreement as aforesaid" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 9:—

SECTION 26.

In sub-section (3), page 14, from "Any" in line 16 to the end of the sub-section deleted and "For the purposes of this sub-section, where any purchase annuity, annual sum or other payment is payable under the Land Purchase Acts in respect of the land and the date on which the Land Commission obtain possession of the land is not a gale day, such purchase annuity, annual sum or other payment shall be apportioned up to that date and shall be deemed to have accrued from day to day" substituted.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 10:—

SECTION 29.

Sub-sections (12) and (13) deleted and the following sub-sections substituted:—

(12) Where any land is disposed of by virtue of an authorisation under paragraph (f) of sub-section (7) or paragraph (a) of sub-section (9) of this section—

(a) the disposal shall operate to vest the land in the person to whom it is disposed of in fee simple subject to any purchase annuity, funding annuity, annual sum or other payment payable to the Land Commission in respect thereof and any charge thereon under the Public Works Acts or the Land Reclamation Act, 1949 (No. 25 of 1949), (including any arrears of such purchase annuity, funding annuity, annual sum, payment or charge), but, save as aforesaid, freed and discharged from the trusts of the scheme and from all estates, claims or incumbrances of all persons whomsoever who are interested in the land,

(b) if the person to whom the land is disposed of is the Land Commission, the Land Commission shall be entitled to enter on and take possession of the land and Section 19 of the Land Act, 1927, shall apply accordingly.

(13) Any land which becomes vested in the Land Commission pursuant to sub-section (11) or sub-section (12) of this section shall be subject to the provisions of the Land Act, 1923, as amended by subsequent Acts (including this Act), as to the provision of parcels of land for the persons or bodies mentioned in Section 31 of the Land Act, 1923, as amended as aforesaid.

(14) On the revocation under this section of the whole of a scheme and of all the trusts thereof, or on the revocation, variation or addition under this section of or to any terms or trusts of a scheme (including the substitution of any of the extended purposes for any existing purpose of the scheme) the following provisions shall have effect:—

(a) notice of the revocation, variation, addition or substitution shall be given in the prescribed manner to the trustee or trustees and to any other persons appearing to the Land Commission to be affected;

(b) at any time within six months after the giving of such notice—

(i) any beneficiary under the scheme or trusts who, as such beneficiary, has sustained loss by the revocation, variation, addition or substitution, and

(ii) in the case of a revocation, any person from whose estate, claim or incumbrance the land to which the scheme and trusts relate was, by virtue of paragraph (a) of sub-section (11) of this section, freed and discharged and who has suffered loss by such freeing and discharge,

may apply to the Land Commission for compensation to be paid by them in respect of such loss.

(15) On the disposal of any land under an authorisation under paragraph (f) of sub-section (7) or paragraph (a) of sub-section (9) of this section, the following provisions shall have effect:—

(a) notice of the disposal shall be given in the prescribed manner to all persons (other than the trustees of the scheme) appearing to the Land Commission to be affected;

(b) at any time within six months after the giving of such notice—

(i) any beneficiary under the scheme or trusts thereof who, as such beneficiary, has sustained loss by the disposal, and

(ii) any person from whose estate, claim or incumbrance the land was, by virtue of paragraph (a) of sub-section (12) of this section freed and discharged and who has suffered loss by such freeing and discharge,

may apply to the Land Commission for compensation to be paid by them in respect of such loss.

(16) No compensation shall be payable under sub-section (14) or sub-section (15) of this section—

(i) in respect of any loss which is the loss of a chance of being selected as a recipient of benefits under the scheme or trusts, or

(ii) in respect of any loss in relation to which the Land Commission certify under seal that the applicant for compensation has been offered, or is or will be provided with, any specified right, interest or equity which the Land Commission are satisfied is of not less value to him than what he has lost.

(17) Every question arising under sub-section (14), sub-section (15) or sub-section (16) of this section (including any question as to the right to or amount of compensation) shall, in default of agreement, be decided by the lay commissioners, but there shall be a right of appeal to the Appeal Tribunal and the decision of the Appeal Tribunal shall be final save that an appeal shall lie to the Supreme Court on questions of law.

Mr. Moylan

We have been awfully kind to the Minister in relation to this Land Bill. He has got away with murder; we have given him every help we could. Here we have Section 29 that occupies three or four pages of the Bill and an amendment which occupies a page and a half and maybe the Minister will tell us what it is all about.

Mr. Blowick

This amendment is necessary to remove a defect in the Bill in relation to the disposal of trust land. Occasionally it becomes desirable to detach part of the trust allotment from the trusts and to put that particular part to a different use, for example, as a site for a school, parochial hall, etc. In other cases the land may no longer be of use to the trustees and it may be desirable to surrender it to the Land Commission or transfer it to a third party. That sums up the reason for the page and a half amendment and for the three pages in the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 11:—

In sub-section (16), page 20, line 6, "disposal to the Land Commission and" inserted before "disposal".

This is a drafting amendment to remove any doubts about the ability of trustees to dispose of land for use of the Land Commission's statutory purposes.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Blowick

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 12:—

In page 20, the following sub-section inserted before sub-section (18):—

(18) The reference in sub-section (4) of Section 69 of the Land Act, 1923, to sub-section (1) of that section shall be construed as a reference to this section.

This is a drafting amendment also. Sub-section (1) of Section 69 of the 1923 Act is being repealed and replaced by Section 29 of this Bill. Sub-section (4) of Section 69 is not being repealed but to prevent its being nullified it is necessary to delete from it the reference to the repealed sub-section (1) and to substitute a reference to Section 29 of this Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Amendments reported and agreed to.

Ordered: That Seanad Éireann be notified accordingly.