Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 13 Jun 1950

Vol. 121 No. 11

Committee on Finance. - Finance Bill—Money Resolution.

I move:—

That for the purpose of any Act of the present Session to charge and impose certain duties of customs and inland revenue (including excise), to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provisions in connection with finance, it is expedient to authorise:—

(a) the payment out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas in the financial year ending on the 31st day of March, 1951, of a sum not exceeding £2,000,000 into the Transition Development Fund;

(b) that a sum of £655,432 to redeem borrowings, and interest thereon, in respect of capital services shall be charged annually on the Central Fund in the 30 successive financial years commencing with the financial year ending on the 31st day of March, 1951.

This Money Resolution is necessary because of the charges out of public funds which arise under Section 21 and Section 22 of the Finance Bill. The first is the one which gives authority for payment into the Transition Development Fund of a sum not exceeding £2,000,000 in the current year. Section 22 of the legislation makes provision for an annual charge for 30 years of the sum I mentioned, for the redemption of borrowing in connection with capital services.

I suppose on a Money Resolution one is justified in making some slight reference to general financial policy.

The Deputy will bear in mind that this Money Resolution is specific to Sections 21 and 22.

And two sums only.

Yes, two sums only. It is not a general Money Resolution.

There is a reference to borrowing. The Minister is seeking power to borrow for the purposes of capital services and I think, in that connection, one is entitled to reply to a recent statement by the Taoiseach, pointing out that the Government are providing the enormous sum of £30,000,000, or some such figure, for capital expenditure during the present year, as against £5,000,000 during the last year Fianna Fáil were in office. I do not know whether the Taoiseach wishes the country to believe that the circumstances in 1950 are comparable to the circumstances in 1947 so far as the implementation of large scale expenditure programmes is concerned; but we remember that when the present Minister for Finance was confronted in that year with the proposals of the then Government, he expressed astonishment at the, as he termed it, fantastic nature and size of the expenditure, which he severely criticised. As as a matter of fact, I do not think that he even troubled to criticise it so much as rather to dismiss it—a mere question of £100,000,000 or £200,000,000. It was all the same to the Minister at that time; it simply meant that the Government had embarked on a thoroughly foolish or even a lunatic policy at the time, if we were to take the Minister's observations seriously.

I called attention, in the debate on the Financial Resolutions, to the Minister's references on that occasion to capital expenditure on such services as roads, telephones and so on. He saw no necessity for them, and I think the general gist of his remarks was fairly well summarised when he concluded by saying that, fortunately, the programme presented by the then Government was merely a programme, and would probably never be carried into effect. It seems to denote a belief in an extraordinarily short memory, not alone in the minds of the public, but in the minds of political persons, if it were to be assumed that we were going to let the occasion pass without calling attention to it when the Taoiseach boasts of the large scale capital expenditure at the present time compared to what was contemplated in 1947.

I need not worry the House by going into details of the position as it existed then, or the circumstances that operated to prevent the carrying out of a large scale programme with the speed and to the extent that the Government would have wished. Suffice it to call attention to one particular aspect, and that was the shortage of materials which everyone knows made it impossible to proceed with housing or road works or telephone development on the scale one would have wished.

I think the Taoiseach's remarks, which contained the gem that the country was overtaxed when this Government came into office, must have been rather in the nature of a smoke-screen to try to persuade people that there is some consistency about a Government, the chief members of which— and they are now mainly responsible for this capital investment policy—expressed an entirely different view and adopted a severely critical attitude a few years ago. The mere fact that conditions have changed, in the sense that supplies are more freely available and we are nearer to normal trading conditions, could not possibly explain the extraordinary change that has taken place; neither could the change in the views of the political economists who advise the Government. The fact is that the Minister has been driven from the philosophy and the policy he then advocated and he has been driven, we do not know why, but we can surmise, to accept and to try to put across the country a policy of which he was, perhaps, the most outspoken and severe critic in this House.

I do not want to go back over what has been said on the Financial Resolutions, but I think it is necessary, at least, to refer to them and to the fact that the grandiose schemes which were so severely condemned as being symtoms of megalomania and squandermania and all the other manias, have now become virtues and are to be exalted. Of course, those unusual changes of mind and attitude are perhaps to be explained by a better idea and a better realisation of political necessities. You have the same Government which, when it took office, announced its intention to enforce retrenchment over a very wide field and cut out expenditure unless it was absolutely essential—to embark on a courageous policy of cutting down the cost of Government—now presenting us with a bill for £87,000,000 in respect of Government services while, in the year when the Minister was so outspoken in his criticisms, the cost of corresponding services amounted to only £65,000,000.

Far from trying to justify his departure from the policy he announced regarding the careful scrutiny of expenditure and the necessity for justifying up to the hilt all projects of a capital nature, the Minister now seems to have thrown discretion to the winds. Instead of, as he told us, being ashamed that out of an expenditure of £70,000,000 he could only account for some £6,000,000—he hoped to be able to argue that he had made economies but £6,000,000 out of £70,000,000 he described as very little——

Is not the Deputy making a Second Reading speech on two specific matters?

I will content myself by calling attention then to the fact that, owing to the failure of the Minister to implement his promise to reduce the cost of Government, to reduce the cost of administration, we have this Finance Bill continuing the taxation at the existing rate, and we have this provision for borrowing, which, I suggest, would not have been necessary, at least to the same extent, if the Minister had done the work which the country expects a Minister for Finance to do, and that is to carry on the business of national housekeeping and the care of the national finances in a prudent and careful manner so as to subserve the national interest in the long run as well as in the short term.

This Financial Resolution springs out of Sections 21 and 22 of the Finance Bill and raises what is really the fundamental difference in policy between Fianna Fáil and the present Government. We are not against loans for any productive purpose, especially if they are of a dollar-earning nature rather than of a sterling-earning capacity. I think I remember the present Minister for Finance referring at one time to the coming of sterling into this country as paper money. While we would not go so far as to say that now, we think there is a grave defect in Government policy in this way, that they did not at an earlier stage devote a great deal more time to directing their financial policy to the earning of dollars rather than to any form of external assets. The fundamental difference between us is this: that while we would raise loans for productive purposes, or even in time of emergency for non-recurrent liabilities, we feel that to raise money for recurring non-productive liabilities is to break down a very important principle. Once you break that barrier the public, especially the public that is sensitive to financial considerations and to the economic prosperity of the country, will feel that the painter is cut and that the boat is, shall we say, drifting, because a grave principle has been breached. It is all very well to say that it is only a small breach. I think the Minister, in his concluding speech on the Budget, argued that it was only to the amount of about £2,000,000. Still, it was a breach. That gives the public a feeling of insecurity —that, if it can be broken in this matter, the breach can be widened in other matters. We hold that social services should depend upon the standard of living in the country.

Would not that arise on Section 21 or Section 22?

The money that is being raised under this Financial Resolution is to be used especially for the purpose of paying off loans. I just want to indicate as briefly as possible the principle of difference that there is between us and that we are arguing against. We feel it is a wrong thing that social services especially, which should be drawn either from a contributory source or else from taxation, should be drawn from loans.

What social service is being financed by loans?

Are you not going to use it for hospitals? Is there not about £2,000,000 for hospitals and housing?

Housing, if you like.

The Minister for Health made a picturesque and dramatic appeal——

We pointed out that if it were urgent and of necessity it should be drawn from immediate taxation. That is the point I want to make. I am not anxious to start a Second Reading speech except to emphasise that we feel that instead of sabotaging the Government's attempts to get loans we are contributing to the economic soundness of the country in making a severe criticism of any loan which is not productive and which is recurrent.

There are two sums of money referred to in this Financial Resolution. Any remarks made have been directed to the second part of it —the £655,432. That sum has nothing to do with telephone development or most of the things which Deputy Derrig mentioned. The £655,432 is the sum, calculated at a rate of interest of 3½ per cent., with sinking fund, that is necessary to redeem the £12,000,000 found in the Estimates. It has nothing to do with roads or any of the other matters which have been spoken of.

Deputy Derrig feels that no great changes have occurred either to Deputies or to economists outside to make them change from the point of view which people had in 1947. The change that has taken place is significant. The change is that supplies are much better. The supplies of consumer goods are much better than they were before. I gave the figures when closing on the Budget Resolutions. Industrial production, in volume, is up 43 percent, since 1948; agricultural production, in volume, is level with pre-war; the exports of agricultural goods are running something about 10 per cent. below the 1938 level; imports are higher than they were pre-war. That means that more goods are being produced here, that less are being exported, and that more goods are being imported. In these circumstances, the danger there was of spending a vast amount of money during the war, or even as late as 1947, is certainly, if present at all, nothing like the danger there was in those days. Conditions have changed. That is why a policy that would have been a danger, and that quite clearly was open to criticism in 1945, 1946 and 1947, should be accepted as an acceptable policy now. Deputy Little has objected to housing being financed by borrowing.

Housing grants.

I do not care what they are. On the 6th March, 1948, one of the Deputy's leaders. Deputy Lemass, talked of there being

"no justification for forcing people to do without goods or services which they needed and which could be purchased for sterling. There was no need to cut down worthwhile projects for development merely to maintain external assets at their present level."

Then he enumerated services that were proper for borrowing:—

"Plans for housing, artificial drainage, turf production, aviation, national defence, electricity development, harbour improvements, an expansion of the merchant marine service, transport reorganisation would all require substantial capital expenditure. Fianna Fáil had been fully prepared to undertake all those projects, having been fully satisfied that the national resources were adequate and that they would contribute in the future to the national prosperity or security."

I would ask the Deputy to get his leader to reconcile that with what he himself has said here to-day.

It is only fair to say that Deputy Lemass was not referring to grants for housing——

He did not say.

—— but to loans which would be repayable.

There is no difference in principle.

The two phrases are not comparable.

Question put and agreed to.
Resolution reported and agreed to.
Top
Share