asked the Minister for Social Welfare whether in or about May, 1949, a record was prepared in his Department showing the steps which had been taken under the direction of his predecessor to procure and collate the data required to enable a comprehensive and equitable scheme of social security to be formulated for the consideration of the Government; whether a considerable number of memoranda and estimates dealing with the more important aspects of the problem were prepared and submitted to the Minister; and whether the work of preparing a scheme of social security was brought to a standstill in or about June, 1948, because of the failure of the Minister to give decisions on important issues of principle which were required to enable further progress to be made.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Preparation of Social Security Scheme.
The Deputy's question seems to be based on incorrect information apparently received by him from a source now obviously anxious to deliberately distort the facts of the situation which obtained in my Department in 1948. In that year my Department produced the Social Welfare Act of 1948 and the Workmen's Compensation (Amendment) Act, 1948. The former amended no fewer than five major Acts and gave increased pensions costing an additional £2,500,000 while the second amended the Workmen's Compensation Acts and increased the maximum benefit payable under them by 33? per cent. Reciprocal arrangements were made in that year with Great Britain and Northern Ireland, some of them for the first time. The preparation of the White Paper on Social Security continued with all speed and it has now been crystallised in the Social Welfare Bill at present before the Dáil.
The documents available in the Department prove conclusively that my predecessor never contemplated the introduction of legislation which would confer benefits on anything like the scale provided under the present Bill. The Deputy would be well advised to seek his information from more reliable sources in future.
Is it not quite clear now that it was not until after the proceedings. Norton versus the Irish Press, that the Minister began to give any attention to the social security scheme at all?
That is a gross misrepresentation and, if necessary, officials of my Department who know much more about the matter than the late secretary can be produced to give the lie to that statement. Let me say, in addition, that so far as the Social Welfare White Paper is concerned. I not only gave speedy decisions on any matter that was submitted to me, but, as the records of the Department will show, unlike the records made available by my predecessor, I pressed on every possible occasion to speed up the production of the White Paper.
Are we to conclude from the Minister's reply that the Minister is now prepared to have a public inquiry into the whole of this matter?
The answer to that question is to be found in the Social Welfare Bill now before the Dail, and I would suggest to the Deputy that if he is concerned with objective truth in this matter he ought not to go to poisoned wells for his information.
The Minister stated that there are officials of his Department who are prepared to give evidence to prove the truth of his assertions. I do not accept these assertions as true, except in so far as I am compelled to do so by the conventions of the House. Any ordinary person would assume that the Minister would welcome an inquiry into this matter. Is he prepared to grant it?
Put down a motion on the matter and then we can discuss it and I will put your informant in the dock.
Put down a motion. Will the Deputy put down a motion?
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if it is not a fact that in a memorandum dealing with the problem of social security submitted to him figures were given showing the probable cost at quinquennial intervals over a period of 20 years of (a) the proposed retirement pensions and (b) the scheme as a whole; and if he will state why he has withheld this vital information from Dáil Éireann and the public.
I think the Deputy is under a misapprehension in this matter. I would refer him to Part V of the White Paper on Social Security (in particular paragraphs 109, 113, 114, 120-2) and to the reply to a question asked by Deputy Derrig on the 21st ultimo.
Why did not the Tánaiste publish the report of the Government actuary, or whoever did the actuarial work on this scheme, as was done in the case of the Beveridge report? Why was not the full information published as given by the actuary in his report, so that the public would be in a position to form their own conclusions direct from the actuary's calculations and not from the case put across by the Minister in the White Paper?
Every scrap of information reasonably required for the consideration of the Dáil has been made available to the House. Any further information we have which the Deputy may require will be given to him to enable him to appreciate the beneficial effects which this Bill will confer on the people.
Mr. Brady
On some of the people.