Vol. 125 No. 12
I move:—
That it is expedient to authorise such payments out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas as are necessary to give effect to any Act of the present Session to stimulate public interest in, and to promote the knowledge, appreciation, and practice of, the Arts and, for these and other purposes, to establish an arts council, and to provide for other matters in connection with the matters aforesaid.
Perhaps the Taoiseach might be able to give us some indication of the manner in which it is intended that this money should be spent. Have any lines of policy been laid down? The reason I mention that is that on the Second Reading of the Bill I referred to the fact that some of the State institutions could sustain some extra financial assistance, and the question will arise whether this council will have any connection with these institutions or whether the finances made available will support the institutions of science and art in any way. For example the grant to the National Gallery, which we have already referred to on the Second Reading, is limited to some £3,000, while the library is limited to £3,500 for the purchase of books. My belief is that in existing circumstances with the increased price of paper and books, that sum is entirely inadequate. In connection with improvement of art standards, there is also the question whether the council have any function in the training of designers for example and craftsmen and whether any assistance will be given to the College of Art. I just want to know before the resolution is carried whether it is intended that the council should work in harmony with these institutions, perhaps assisting them to some extent, or whether its activities will be carried on entirely independently. If that be the case, in what way will the money be expended, by way of grants to associations or bodies interested in art, exhibitions and so on?
In so far as I envisage the functions of this council they would not be to make grants available say to the National Gallery or the Hibernian Academy. I entirely agree with what Deputy Derrig says, that the amount of money given to the National Gallery at the moment is utterly inadequate. I would think that the functions of the council would be to stimulate such interest in that particular matter for example as to—I do not like to use the word "force"— encourage whatever particular Government is in office to increase that grant. If Deputy Derrig would look at page 65 of Dr. Bodkin's report he would get a general idea of what I had in mind as the council's functions when it is set up. I will not refer to what he calls a sub-department of art as I did not think that it was appropriate to set up a sub-department at the moment. While I suggested to the Dáil that this council of art would be more fitting in present circumstances, nevertheless, I think that the functions set out in outline on page 65 of Dr. Bodkin's report really indicate the line on which this council should go. The council would be an advisory body, a supervisory body, a body to encourage and stimulate; it would organise international exhibitions and the bringing of pictures from foreign countries over here; it would stimulate interest in the handicrafts and the application of art to industry; it would give advisory opinions to Ministers on various aspects of their Departments as far as art is concerned. The general notion I have of the body is that it would not be a body to dole out moneys, in other words to take over the functions of the Government or of the Department of Finance in allocating money to these various art institutions.
Might I ask the Taoiseach would it be possible for this council to make a grant for scholarships?
I would think so.
I was not quite sure.
I would think so.
Are we to take it that it is not envisaged, at the moment at any rate, that this body will have to do with the administration, or that ultimately it might be mixed up with the administration of this institution? I had the idea that the Government had the view that at some time, if it was considered a suitable solution, the administration of the institution might be transferred to such an independent body.
That might grow out of this particular seed, that, I hope, will be sown. My whole idea of this council is to make a start, and, when they have surveyed the whole of our art position, we will then know what can best be done. We can get some persons competent to give us advice on the question whether it would be advisable to take the National Gallery, let us say, away from its existing organisation, or the Hibernian Academy from its existing organisation, and even constitute a Ministry of Fine Arts. As things develop we will see better where we are going, but at the moment, so little has been done, I have no clear idea as to what is the best thing to do.
What is the relationship between this body and the present advisory council that is in existence— the Cultural Relations Committee?
The Cultural Relations Committee is merely an advisory body attached to the Department of External Affairs; it has no real statutory existence. A certain amount is voted every year—£10,000—and the Minister for External Affairs, under the advice of this body, expends that money in connection with the dissemination of artistic ideas abroad, and matters of that kind. I think it would be appropriate for this new body to work in close collaboration and consultation with the advisory committee of the Department of External Affairs, but it does not supersede it.
I have another question —it seems to be debatable ground. I would like to know whether the Taoiseach will consider devoting some of the money towards the carrying out of repairs on our ancient monuments, in places like Glendalough or Monasterboice, and places of that sort. I should like to know whether it will be within the scope and the functions of this body to spend money on that type of work.
On page 66 there is set out one of the functions of the sub-department, and that is the supervision and the preservation of national monuments.
That is not in the Bill.
No. Deputy Derrig asked me what is my idea of the functions and I am giving only my idea. What is in the Bill is contained in Section 3—to stimulate public interest in the arts, to promote knowledge, appreciation and practice of the arts, to assist in improving the standards of the arts and to organise or assist in the organising of exhibitions of works of art and artistic craftsmanship.
Under which heading does the Taoiseach think national monuments might come?
To stimulate public interest in the arts.
Architecture is one.
Question agreed to.
Money Resolution reported and agreed to.
