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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Feb 1952

Vol. 129 No. 4

Rates on Agricultural Land (Relief) Bill, 1951—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

The purpose of this Bill is to extend the Rates on Agricultural Land (Relief) Act, 1946, to the year ending 31st March, 1953, and so continue the agricultural grant on its present basis for a further year.

The basis of distribution of the grant was established by the Act of 1946 as follows:—

1. A primary allowance at the rate of three-fifths of the general rate on land valuations not exceeding £20, and the first £20 of higher valuations.

2. A supplementary allowance at the rate of one-fifth of the general rate on the whole of the land valuation above £20.

3. An employment allowance calculated at the rate of 10/- in the £ on the land valuation above £20, subject to the limitation that the allowance does not exceed £6 10s. in respect of each man at work on the holding.

This method of calculation embodies the principle that the grant varies automatically with changes in the local rates. Prior to 1946, the grant was always a fixed amount. Due to the operation of the 1946 Act, the amount of the grant increased from the figure of £1,870,000 at which it had been fixed from 1935/36 to 1945/46 to over £2,900,000 in 1946/47, and to an estimated £4,230,000 in the present financial year.

I have had the whole matter of this form of rate relief under preliminary review recently. It is my intention to pursue this examination, with a view to considering whether this comparatively large subsidy might be applied to a greater extent to assisting those landowners who are engaged in those forms of agricultural production which afford the maximum employment, and who in present conditions are best serving the needs of the community as a whole in regard to agricultural production.

Pending the outcome of this review I would ask the House to agree to the continuance of this rate relief in its existing form for the coming financial year.

Mr. O'Higgins

This Bill will be agreed to by us. The Bill is in ease of a section of the community. It eases the burden of the rates in so far as it affects a large section of the community. I think it is proper, however, that the Minister should appreciate the effect of the entire burden of rates in the country at the moment. I think it was some two years ago that much effort was put into a demand for lower rates by the Minister and his colleagues and by Deputy Cogan. I recollect Deputy Cogan leading a circus from county to county, from constituency to constituency, heading an organisation that was going to reduce rates in respect of agricultural land and bring tremendous reliefs to all of us. He sits now, Deputy Cogan, with Deputy Smith as Minister for Local Government and all the people who joined in this campaign are together now in a new Coalition Government. They have now the power, and as they have the power they have the responsibility to wave the magic wand and reduce the burden of the rates. I want to know whether the Minister now thinks that is possible. I want to know whether the Minister now thinks that the local authorities can by any action they may take reduce the burden which this form of local taxation imposes on the people throughout the country. It is not so very long ago since the Minister and his colleagues thought that that could very easily be done. We find now after some seven or eight months of this Government's office a continuation of the same form of rate relief which has been in operation for some years back. I would not suggest that there is anything very effective which the Minister can do now, except possibly to express sympathy with the farmers whom Deputy Cogan tried to delude and whom the Minister himself tried to delude some years ago.

I think there should be a realisation that rates based on poor law valuations, which were originally imposed as a form of local contribution to very trivial expenses, have now become, by the passage of the years, a major form of revenue which finances most of our local administrative machinery. A great portion of the burden of the rates is devoted to road maintenance and matters of that kind which are national in their importance to the country. I think that the time must come when some inquiry or investigation must be held into the entire question of rates. I do not think that there is anyone in this country who can make a political campaign of rates, because the people who tried to do it are the people who now have power and responsibility to ease the burden. We in the Opposition certainly do not intend to do so, but we do say that the problem is a very grave one and that sooner or later a thorough investigation and overhaul must be carried out with regard to the entire rating position of the country. We welcome the Bill and there will be no opposition to it from this side of the House.

As this is a non-controversial Bill I know that it will pass through the House unanimously. It is merely a continuation of certain relief measures provided some years ago for the agricultural ratepayer. These reliefs were not granted to the farmers as any special gift but merely in realisation that the present system of rating is fundamentally unfair to the agricultural community inasmuch as the valuation of land is much higher in proportion to land's income-producing capacity than other property, particularly business property. It is also, of course, realised that total income from land is less than one-third, certainly very little more than one-fourth, of the national income, while the valuation of land is far in excess of 50 per cent., nearer 75 per cent., of the total valuation of the country. So there is an injustice to agriculture in the present valuation system which this relief measure seeks to adjust.

I said that this Bill was non-contentious, but there are certain people who have contentious minds who see something contentious in everything that comes before this House. It is a pity that an able and well-informed man like Deputy O'Higgins should allow the stimulation and production of bile in his internal organs to distort to a great extent and warp his mental development.

Deputy O'Higgins charges me with the awful crime of being actively associated with an organisation which sought to advocate and advance the cause of the unfortunate ratepayers generally. That organisation, of course, was strictly non-political and it was supported by many members, and even prominent members, of Deputy O'Higgins's Party. I do not think anything can be said on the ground that it was in any sense a political movement. It was a movement that sought to bring about some reform in our present system of local government, in our system of valuation and in our system of rates.

All those systems are antiquated and there is no doubt whatever that vast sums of money are wasted, not through any malice on the part of local authorities, the administrative staff or local representatives, but because of the antiquated and inefficient system which they are trying to operate.

Deputy O'Higgins referred to the fact that roadmaking and road maintenance constitute a very high proportion of the burden on rates. He will I think, admit that our whole system of roadmaking is utterly and completely antiquated and that there is waste because local authorities are trying to operate on out-of-date lines, trying to operate with sporadic grants of unpredictable amounts, trying to operate in many counties, particularly smaller counties, with antiquated machinery that is not sufficient for highly-efficient road construction. In addition, there are many difficulties in administration arising out of the fact that local authorities have to try to relieve social problems by giving employment irrespective of whether the labour can be efficiently employed or not.

All those matters make for ever-increasing expense, for overlapping, for a certain amount of inefficiency and waste and a very high burden on local ratepayers.

In this Bill we are seeking to provide for the distribution of very considerable sums of money for the relief of rates on agricultural land. This system has been in operation since 1926. It provides for a primary grant of three-fifths of the rate, under £20, for a supplementary grant of one-fifth, over £20, and for an employment grant.

I was glad to hear the Minister say that he is considering the desirability of some improvement in this system. I feel strongly that the agricultural grant should be distributed not only to relieve the agricultural producer but in such a way as to stimulate, more efficiently perhaps than it does, increased agricultural production, and particularly increased production of those essential crops for which the nation is crying out, that is, tillage crops. If a farmer knew that he would get a relief on his present year's rates in respect of the amount of tillage which he was carrying out on his farm this year, rather than a relief in respect of the amount of employment which he gave last year, there would be a greater incentive to him to increase tillage.

We know that under the present system a farmer who employs additional men this year may look forward to a reduction in his rates next year. That is looking forward a good distance and the amount of relief given is so small now in proportion to the wages of one agricultural worker, that it does not materially influence a farmer in employing a man. It costs very close on £200 to employ a man fully for the whole year, taking into account the full wage to which he is entitled and the premiums on his insurance. The relief given in respect of that expenditure of £200 under this scheme is £6 10s. 0d. That does not pay the insurance premium of that worker, under present circumstances. As that relief is given, not in respect of a man that the farmer might think of employing now but in respect of a worker whom he employed last year, it does not offer a real incentive to him to increase agricultural production, to increase employment, or to increase tillage. If a farmer were told that for every additional acre he would put under tillage or for whatever acreage he actually has under tillage, he would get relief—if the Minister would come out boldly and say, "I will completely de-rate every acre of land that is under tillage"—that would be a great incentive to him to increase tillage.

I know there may be people who would raise objections to that, who would say that the farmer might produce wrong figures in connection with the acreage he had under tillage. These figures can be checked. There are other people who might say that the checking of figures might involve expense. The answer is that under this scheme we already have inspection of a very close character, not only into the manner in which the farmer manages his business, but into his circumstances.

If a farmer claims relief in respect of a worker there is a check as to whether he employed that worker or not. That is a matter that can be checked through the national health insurance. If a farmer claims relief in respect of a member of his family, a very intensive investigation is carried out already under this scheme as to the accuracy of that claim.

As a matter of fact, I think the investigation under the existing scheme is more intimate, if you like, and more intensive than any inspection that it might be necessary to make in respect of a claim based upon the amount of land under tillage. For example, if a father claims an abatement in respect of one of his sons who has been employed on the farm, the local rate-collector or some other officer of the local authority will have to investigate whether that young man was employed all the year on the farm or whether he had done some other work for some portion of the year or was away from home for portion of the year. That does constitute a close investigation into the family circumstances of the farmer. On that score, there is nothing to be said against an abatement claim on the amount of tillage carried out. I, therefore, compliment the Minister on his decision to consider this whole matter, at any rate. Nothing can be done as far as the present year is concerned, as the present scheme is already in operation and the abatement forms in most cases have been completed, but for the coming year the matter should be further investigated, at any rate.

I think it will be admitted that there has been a change in the circumstances of the farming community since this scheme was first introduced. At any rate, agricultural wages were much lower in 1946 or whenever this scheme first came into operation and £6 10s. 0d. then constituted a greater proportion of the expenditure on employing a man than it constitutes to-day. On that score, there is certainly room for an improved scheme. It is particularly essential that the scheme should be improved with a view to stimulating increased agricultural production, particularly increased production of tillage crops. We know that it has been pointed out on a number of occasions that production in agriculture has gone down over the last two years. We have fewer cows, fewer sows and fewer acres under the plough now than two or three years ago. As between 1949-50 and 1950-51 there has been a reduction in the numbers of cows, the number of sows and the number of acres under the plough. Although one of the people responsible for the direction of agricultural policy used to say that he wanted one more cow, one more sow and one more acre under the plough, policy moved in the opposite direction. I think all the machinery of this State should now be employed on moving agricultural policy in the other direction. You cannot have increased production when there is a shortage of basic feeding stuffs. You cannot have more pigs and more poultry in the country when there is nothing to feed them, and the only feeding you can get for pigs and poultry is cereal crops produced on the land. I am glad, therefore, that the Minister has indicated that it is his intention to try to make this relief of agricultural rates conform as far as possible to the needs of the nation.

All I have to say on this matter will be very brief indeed. I do not believe in the principle of derating land or giving relief of rates indiscriminately. There are certain types of farms the owners of which should get relief, such as dairy farms, but I think owners of land have a certain duty to the community. I would urge the Minister that relief in rates should be given principally where landowners till a certain percentage of their arable land. I do not believe in giving relief in rates to a farm where one man and a dog is looking after 100 bullocks. I do not believe in relief of rates for people like the ranchers around Mullingar who drive in in their cars on Saturdays to buy potatoes and vegetables at the local market. I think the people to whom relief of rates on agricultural land should be given are the people who do not alone work their land well but carry out their duties to the community as a whole by intensive production. I think the Minister, in these days of lowering production, would be well advised to consider the matter from that aspect so as to encourage people who are working their land and who are contributing a proper amount of food to the national pool, who, to put it shortly, are using their land in accordance with proper methods of husbandry. These are the people who should get, by way of inducement to further effort, a definite relief of rates. I do not see why the taxpayers should be asked to contribute to the relief of people who are not making proper use of the land. I do not see why the rest of the community who look to landowners to produce sufficient food, particularly in times of emergency such as those through which we are passing, should be asked to subsidise people who are not properly using their land. I would ask the Minister to consider that aspect of the matter before this question is finally disposed of.

There is not very much that I have to say in reply to the debate, as no points of any great importance were raised. It is scarcely worth while to refer to the few remarks of Deputy O'Higgins. I was almost tempted to take the Deputy seriously and to ask him at what time or in what circumstances I had recommended any of the policies which he alleged my colleagues and I had recommended in this House. I have never found myself in company with those who believe, either in regard to local matters or national matters, that you can have improved services everywhere without paying for them. Even as a member of a local body, when matters of that nature were being discussed and when services were being expanded, I always took the view that the public who wanted these expanded services should be sensible enough to realise that they would have to be paid for and that the obvious outcome of such expansion was an increase in rates. I do not think you will find on record any statement by me that is in any way in conflict with that general approach, so that the remarks made by the Deputy to whom I referred were entirely out of place in my regard.

I did refer to my intention to review the whole basis on which this relief of rates is given. To tell the truth, I had the feeling that I should like to do it even this year, if I could have done it. I had that feeling largely because of the reasons advanced here by Deputies, such as Deputy Moran. These Deputies have indicated clearly what the general trend in agriculture has been. I was looking at this huge sum of money that the State was providing for the relief of rates and I naturally said to myself that if the taxpayers are providing this sum why should the taxpayers not condition that relief so as to use that vast sum of money in encouraging production along the lines which we, as a Government and as a people, felt were going to be most beneficial to us. Especially would I be prone to take that view having regard to the many statements we have listened to in the course of the last three or four years as to the undesirability of asking the owners of land to till a certain percentage of their land even in any circumstances. I have been reading and listening to appeals made to farmers to till their land, and so forth. I am of the opinion that there are many landowners who, however much stress is laid on the necessity to increase production in times like these, will be prone to take the selfish line. Looking at the sum of over £4,000,000 which we provide in rates, I asked myself: "Why should we throw this money loosely to the occupiers and owners of land in this country without exploring what we might do with that sum of money in order to induce those farmers to till land and give employment and follow," as I stated briefly in my opening remarks, "the policy that is to the benefit of all sections of the people?" Suggestions have been made in the course of this short debate as to the way in which that relief might be given. I must say that though some of these suggestions may appear to be all right they do not appear to be so to me. I think that, on closer examination, they would be found to be impracticable. It is all right to make suggestions, because they can be examined. If they should be found to be feasible, well, that is a good thing— but I doubt if in this case they are feasible.

My purpose in making these observations was to indicate to the owners of land what the approach will be in the distribution of this sum in the coming year. If it had been a practical proposition I should have been inclined to have a similar approach made in connection with the distribution of the sum which is now provided for under this Bill.

What is the cause of the delay in notifying local authorities of the grants for the coming year?

They will be notified, maybe, on Monday. I do not have to wait for Mr. Butler, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer.

He has nothing to do with this matter at the moment?

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining stages now.
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