asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is now prepared to consider proposals for the licensing of a factory for the canning of horse meat for export, having regard to the impossibility of protecting horses from cruelty when exported abroad.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Export of Horses for Slaughter.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if, in order to meet the unsatisfactory and inhumane situation arising from the export of live horses for slaughter, he will consider facilitating the setting up of an export trade in carcase horse meat.
I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 50 and 51 together.
The Deputies do not state the basis of their assumption that exported horses are exposed to cruelty. I am as anxious as the Deputies to ensure that animals do not suffer from ill-treatment, but it does seem to me that the views expressed in certain quarters on this question are often founded less on a careful and objective study of the facts than on emotion.
It is a serious charge against other countries to imply that they are in different to the point of callousness as regards the treatment of our horses. I have seen no evidence that this is the case. A set of photographs of Irish horses exported to France has been sent to me recently but these photographs do not in fact reveal any concrete evidence that our horses are being treated with cruelty.
On the question of the development of an export trade in horse meat in substitution for the export of live horses. I have already pointed out to Deputy Cogan, in reply to the question he asked in this House on 18th July, 1951, that this raises a number of very important issues affecting the standing of this country as an exporter of high quality meat such as beef and mutton.
I must say that I am amazed to learn that the Minister has yet to be convinced in regard to the cruelty which horses suffer on export from this country. I have photographs here in this envelope which I shall show to the Minister afterwards. They prove conclusively that horses undergo the most terrible suffering and cruelty on export. With reference to the second part of the Minister's reply, may I ask if he is prepared to help a properly organised trade for the export of horse meat? The Minister has said that there are difficulties in the way. We all know that there are difficulties. Is the minister prepared to facilitate a properly organised and well-conducted factory to deal with the export of horse meat?
Mr. Walsh
Under no circumstances would I countenance the export of horse meat from this country. I would rather stop the export of horses completely than do that.
Would the Minister do that?
Is the Minister aware that the only effective way in which he can protect Irish horses from ill-treatment outside this country is by preventing their export and, further, that the only effective means by which he can prevent the export of horses is by the establishment of a horse-meat industry here? Does the Minister seriously think that such an industry would interfere in any way with the dead-meat trade?
Mr. Walsh
Yes.
Will the Minister inquire from the shipping company how many horses were destroyed on board, or immediately on arrival, at the different ports during the past five years?
Mr. Walsh
That is a separate question.
I have seen the evidence on which Deputy M.E. Dockrell's allegations are based. I feel quite satisfied, having seen the evidence, that the allegations are well-founded. I am very surprised at the Minister's attitude. I should like to see the matter pursued much further.
Mr. Walsh
I have also seen the evidence, from photographs which were submitted to me. I have seen no greater cruelty in the documents than I have seen in this country.
They are just as bad down the country.
Has the Minister seen the photographs which I have here?
Mr. Walsh
I must say that when I went through the list submitted to me I was surprised at the names of some of the people on that list who, having used the horses to the fullest extent, then sent them for export.
Having regard to the fact that there is a good deal of uneasiness in connection with this whole matter, will the Minister take steps to investigate carefully the complaints which have been made?
Mr. Walsh
I have already done so.
Is it not correct to say that it is a very cruel thing for a 20-stone man to ride a horse over fences in this country?
I think it is shocking.