Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Jul 1952

Vol. 133 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 54—Posts and Telegraphs.

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £4,792,000 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1953, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c. 74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; the Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1928; No. 45 of 1926; No. 14 of 1940 (secs. 30 and 31); No. 14 of 1942 (sec. 23); No. 17 of 1951, etc.), and of certain other Services administered by that office.

The net Estimate for 1952-53 amounts to £7,360,000, being a gross total of £7,667,840 less Appropriations-in-Aid of £307,840. The net provision represents a decrease of £48,730 on the net provision for 1951-52.

It will be observed that the 1951-52 provision includes a sum of £696,730, which was actually provided for in the Vote for Increases in Remuneration and thus nominally transferred. This extra provision covered increases in remuneration for the employees of the Department. It is made up of £102,190 arrears proper to 1950-51 and £594,540 proper to 1951-52. This amount of £594,540 should be divided up and added under the appropriate sub-heads in order to give figures for 1951-52 which are properly comparable with the sub-head provisions for 1952-53. The sub-heads affected and the proportions proper to be added in each case are:—

£

A1

48,800

2

135,450

3

317,750

4

16,510

I1

75,000

Q1

1,030

Taking account of these amounts, the comparisons between 1952-53 and 1951-52 should be adjusted as follows:—

1952/53

1951/52

Increase

Decrease

A1

421,700

417,530

4,170

2

1,07,000

1,064,450

5,550

3

2,413,600

2,381,750

31,850

4

138,500

129,010

9,490

I1

527,950

475,800

52,150

Q1

13,410

17,380

3,970

The more substantial variations— those of £5,000 or more—occur on the following sub-heads as adjusted:—

Sub-heads A (1), A (2), A (3) and A (4)—Salaries, Wages and Allowances.— The increase of £51,060 under these sub-heads is mainly attributable to a net increase in staff and normal increments, offset by an over-estimation of the amount required last year to meet increases in remuneration, to a greater deduction in respect of the amount chargeable to Telephone Capital Funds and to changes in personnel.

Sub-head C—Rent, Office Fittings, etc. —The increase of £8,145 is due to the increased cost of electricity, gas and fuel offset to a minor degree by a reduction in the number of rateable premises.

Sub-head E (1)—Conveyance of Mails by Rail. —The increase of £53,690 is due to the increased cost of conveyance of letter mails and an increase in the payment to the railway clearing house for the carriage of parcel mails resulting from the increased postage on parcels offset by a reduction in the provision for inter-State parcel traffic.

Sub-head G (1)—Stores (other than Engineering). —The decrease of £53,110 is due to the decreased provision for emergency reserve stocks offset partially by increased prices for normal consumption stores.

Sub-head G (2)—Uniform Clothing.— The decrease of £126,300 is due to a reduction in the requirements of serge cloth and a reduction in the provision for emergency reserve stocks.

Sub-head G (3)—Manufacture of Stamps, etc.—The increase of £27,325 is due to the rise in prices of normal requirements and the purchase of a reserve stock.

Sub-head H (3)—Incidental Expenses. —The increase of £5,025 is mainly due to increased expenditure on the savings publicity campaign, the early Christmas posting campaign, postal advertisements and window cleaning.

Sub-head 11—Engineering Establishment. —Increase £52,150. This sub-head provides for the total pay of the engineering branch staff less a deduction for the cost of staff time devoted to the development of the telephone service (as distinct from its maintenance) which is met from telephone capital funds The increased provision is for maintenance and renewal work and reflects the growth in the size of the telephone service.

Sub-head 12—Travelling Expenses. — The increase of £8,750 is necessary to meet the additional travelling and subsistence for the augmented staff and also reflects the increased cost of fares by rail and road transport.

Sub-head K—Engineering Materials. —The decrease of £246,750 is due to a reduction in the purchase of emergency reserve stocks.

Sub-head L (3)—Contract Work. — The increase of £166,950 is mainly due to the proposed renewal of Ship Street and Merrion Automatic Telephone Exchanges in Dublin, to which must be added an increased provision for work on telegraph and common service construction programmes.

Sub-head L (4)—Rents, Rates on Wires, Water, Light, etc. —The increase of £13,050 is mainly due to increased charges for electric light and power and arrears of rent on the new North Main Exchange, Dublin.

Sub-head M—Telephone Capital Repayments. —Increase £130,834. Funds for the development of the telephone system are provided under the authority of the Telephone Capital Acts (1924-1951), which authorise the Minister for Finance to issue sums out of the Central Fund for this purpose. Repayment of these funds is made by means of terminable annuities extending over a period not exceeding 20 years. In consultation with the Minister for Finance, provision is made each year under this sub-head for the repayment of the instalments of principal and interest on the annuities created. The increased provision in the sub-head is an indication of the continuing expansion of the telephone system.

Sub-head N (1)—Superannuation Allowances and other non-effective charges, exclusive of allowances granted under the Treaty of 6th December, 1921. The increase of £5,300 is mainly due to the necessary increased provision for pensions, additional allowances and death gratuities.

Sub-head N (3)—Agency Payments in respect of Compensation Allowances. The increase of £5,000 is due in the main to the increase in the rate of these pensions. It is offset by a similar increase in Appropriations-in-Aid (sub-head T, item (12)).

Sub-head Q (2)—Provision and Installation of Equipment and Operating and Maintenance Charges, Rent, etc. The reduction of £6,030 is due to a less extensive programme of airport construction works.

Sub-head T—Appropriations-in-Aid. The increase of £39,774 is due to expected increased receipts for work carried out for the Electricity Supply Board, from the Savings Bank and widows' and orphans' pensions, from Post Office premises sub-let and from the British Government for sums to be paid on their behalf.

In speaking on this Estimate last year I referred to the fact that the financial position was not satisfactory. I am sorry to say that the position has considerably worsened in the meantime. Deputies will remember that the Post Office produces commercial accounts which are designed to show its position as a trading concern. The figures in these accounts differ from the figures in the Appropriation Account of the Vote in that, for instance, allowances are made for the value of services rendered free to other Government Departments on the credit side and for interest on capital on the debit side. It is unnecessary for me to go into detail as to how these commercial accounts are made up but Deputies will accept it that they do show the true position. On this commercial account basis the deficit in 1949-50 was £167,251 and in 1950-51 £317,766. While completed revenue and expenditure figures for 1951-52 are not available, preliminary figures indicate that there will be even a heavier deficit, something in the region of £900,000. In 1952-53 the deficit may even exceed £1,000,000. It is true that during these years a fair amount of stockpiling has taken place and is continuing. If the stockpiling is completely ignored the position in the current year is estimated to work out as follows:—

Surplus

Deficit

£

£

Postal service

477,000

Telegraph

428,000

Telephones

45,000

Net Deficit

860,000

The deficit represents the difference between estimated expenditure and estimated receipts; it is only a balancing figure and cannot, therefore, be broken down into components. What can be said by way of comment is that the main increases estimated in 1952-53 expenditure compared with 1950-51 (that is expenditure on the commercial account basis) are as follows:

£

Pay

592,000

Pension liability

51,000

Depreciation

119,000

Interest

151,000

Conveyance of Mails

52,000

Maintenance

147,000

These items totalling £1,112,000 are offset to some extent by increase in revenue mainly from the telephone service.

The present serious financial position is under close and continual examination. An improvement could, of course, result from increased traffic as the available facilities could dispose of a good deal more traffic without commensurate extra expense, but on present indications it is unlikely that traffic will increase to an extent sufficient to wipe out the deficit. So far as expenditure is concerned many measures of economy have been effected and others are being pursued, but the total resulting from even the most meticulous examination of all our expenditures—which incidentally would be a tremendous task—would be relatively small compared with the size of our deficit.

It is traditional departmental policy that in the aggregate, the Post Office must pay for itself. Being a public service, however, the Post Office cannot elect to provide facilities only where they would be remunerative or where there would be a little, if any, loss. For example post offices serving scattered and sparsely populated communities are run at a loss. In the telegraph service we lose an estimated £40,000 a year on delivery of telegrams beyond the distance of ½mile from the Post Office and apart from the delivery loss there is a further loss in maintaining telegraph offices with expensive equipment and lines in places which have light telegraph traffic; this applies even for some fair sized towns. Again most rural telephone call offices are run at a loss, but, as I have said, we must as a public service make these facilities available throughout the country and not merely in our cities and towns.

On the other hand the Post Office services are one indivisible whole, and in determining our charges it is the overall cost we have to recover, and it is right that Post Office users as a whole should pay for the Post Office services—there is no case for saddling the taxpaper with it. In spreading the burden over Post Office users we will only be following what is done in the larger sphere of State finances where, in effect, taxes redistribute income through social services. So far as the Post Office is concerned the proportion of larger users is no different to that of the better off section of the community as a whole.

So I feel I must warn Deputies and the public of the likelihood that only an increase in charges will solve the problem of Post Office finances. In this we would, of course, be only repeating the steps which other administrations throughout the world have found it necessary to take. One example is that of Denmark, where the working of the post office resulted in a loss of £840,000 in 1949-50. By means of increased charges that loss was reduced to the relatively inconsiderable figure of £110,000 in 1950-51.

During the past year the mail services functioned satisfactorily. In my speech on the 1951-52 Estimates I referred to the introduction a short time previously of the night air service between Dublin Airport and, Ringway, Manchester, for the conveyance of a considerable portion of the cross-channel mails. Since its introduction this service has operated with a high degree of satisfaction. Approximately 2,250,000 lb. of mail has been carried during the first complete year of operation. A satisfactory degree of regularity has been acheived, and a tribute is due to Aer Lingus for the excellent manner in which it has operated the service.

As indicated in my speech last year a day air mail service to Great Britain supplementary to the night mail service was introduced on the 7th May, 1951. This service continues to be used for first class mail, i.e., letters, postcards and letter packets for a large part of Great Britain, which reach the Dublin Sorting Office between 6.15 p.m. and 5 a.m.

The volume of letter mail traffic was well maintained during the first half of the financial year 1951-52 but a slight decline set in during the second half. This decline also manifested itself in parcel traffic. The volume of mail during last Christmas was well up to the record 1950 traffic and the arrangements made for the disposal of the traffic worked very satisfactorily. The thanks of the Department are due to the public for the manner, in which they responded to the "post early" appeal.

The provision of up-to-date sorting fittings and equipment was continued during the past year. The developments in this field included the provision of electrically driven stamp cancelling machines at sixteen provincial head offices. Owing to difficulty in obtaining mounting plates for stamp vending machines the installation of these machines has not satisfactorily progressed during the year 1951-52. I hope that it will be possible to expedite the installations during the current financial year.

The work of revising rural postal services with a view to giving daily deliveries on restricted delivery posts and improving the times of arrival and despatches of mails generally in rural areas was continued throughout the year, and the services in the Nenagh, Roscrea, Thurles, Tipperary, Kilkenny and Kilmallock districts were reorganised. The reorganisation in these areas involved the introduction of 16 departmental motor services and the provision of daily delivery on 75 restricted posts. A scheme in respect of the Cavan head office district was implemented early in May last. Three departmental motor services were introduced and a daily delivery provided on 47 restricted delivery posts. We have under review the frequency of delivery throughout the County Donegal area, and it is hoped that it will be possible to introduce a daily frequency of delivery on most of the restricted posts in County Donegal at a fairly early date.

In view of what I have already said about the worsening of the Department's financial position, I feel compelled to sound a warning note regarding the implementation of the scheme for the extension of daily deliveries to all rural areas. The scheme was originally undertaken on the understanding that, taking the rough with the smooth, the Exchequer would not be required to bear any additional expenditure. The stage has now been reached when, having regard to increased staff wages and increased charges generally for mechanical transport, petrol, etc., I am not fully satisfied that the implementation of the scheme in its entirety will not impose a burden on the Exchequer. I am, therefore, having the whole position reviewed.

During the year seven new sub-offices were opened; money order and savings bank facilities were extended to 32 sub-offices and 31 new letter boxes were provided.

As a result of the enactment during 1951 of the Post Office (Amendment) Act, the Department will, it is hoped, be in a position to introduce the business reply service this year and to extend the application of the special "literature for the blind" postage rate to many other articles intended for the use of the blind.

The centenary of the death of the poet Thomas Moore occurred this year and steps are being taken to issue a commemorative stamp in his honour. The stamp will be in two denominations, and will, it is expected, be available for sale about August-September next. As the first stamp printed in the recess process in Ireland it will mark an epoch in the manufacture of Irish stamps in this country.

A departmental committee has been set up to see what improvements or modifications can be usefully effected in respect of postmen's uniforms.

Telegraph Service. —The House was informed before that the Department was carrying out an examination of the telegraph service in an effort to stem the rising loss and to bring about greater efficiency. As part of a general scheme it was decided to instal teleprinters instead of Morse telegraph apparatus at a number of the larger centers. This work is now proceeding. As a first step it was necessary to set up training centres for the training of learners and existing staff in teleprinter working. These centres have now been established at a number of offices. The training of the existing staff is troublesome and will take some time. The training officers have in some cases to be sent from existing teleprinter centres like Dublin and the staff being trained have to carry on their ordinary post office duties during the training period. Teleprinter operation is, of course, technically more complex than Morse, and to enable our technicians to keep the teleprinters and associated equipment in order when installed special training classes are also being conducted at present. It is anticipated that teleprinter circuits can be set up in about ten offices during the course of the year When that has been done, about half the initial teleprinter scheme will have been completed. Of course, teleprinters will improve the telegraph position only at the principal centres, but the largest part of the telegraph traffic is handled at these centres. At the smaller offices where Morse working is still in operation and at the still smaller offices where telegrams and telephone calls are transmitted over the same circuits we must depend on long-term telephone developments to make the position better for telegraphs.

The telegraph service to islands off the coast has been the cause of a good deal of representation to the Department from time to time because of interruptions that have taken place. The existing means of telegraph communication with the majority of these islands were provided in 1939. The equipment installed at that time was the best that had been developed. It was not, however, entirely satisfactory. In the absence of a mains supply of electricity on the islands the batteries for telegraphic operation had to be charged by wind chargers. These were often damaged or blown down in storms, and could not readily be repaired owing to the difficulty of getting to the islands in bad weather. An improved type of equipment has recently been developed and tried out by the British Post Office, and it offers the possibility of a much improved method of communication with places, such as the islands, which have not got an electric power supply. Dry batteries are used, and I understand they last for many months without replacement. The equipment is otherwise very much more up-to-date than the existing equipment. An order has been placed for a number of sets of the new apparatus for the purpose of improving our island telegraphs. Delivery of the equipment will not be due, however, until the 31st December, 1952. In the meantime, a survey will be carried out to ascertain suitable locations for the installation of the equipment, and it is hoped that actual installation can begin in the early spring of 1953.

A sum of £34,000 was included in last year's Estimate to provide modern transmitting and receiving equipment for the coast radio stations at Malin Head and Valentia. Unfortunately, it was not found possible to procure a suitable type of apparatus during the year and the work could not therefore be carried out. Financial provision is again being made this year for the coast station modernisation and every effort will be made to get the necessary equipment.

In connection with the telephone call office scheme, the Department provides telegraph facilities where practicable at offices where call offices are established in order to bring telegraph delivery facilities within the reach of residents of remote areas. The provision of these facilities not only expedites delivery of telegrams by reducing the delivery areas of neighbouring telegraph offices but eases somewhat departmental difficulty in securing casual messengers to effect delivery. Telegraph facilities were extended to 23 post offices during the year.

With the ever-increasing growth in the number of telephone subscribers— very many of whom appear to be unaware of the utility of the telephone vis-à-vis the telegraph service—I arranged to have greater publicity given to the facility of having telegrams forwarded and delivered by telephone. There are three important advantages in having telegrams delivered by telephone; delivery is speedier than by messenger; the addressee receives a confirmatory copy by post; the telegrams addressed telephonically usually cost less because the number of words in the address can be smaller. There is no difficulty in obtaining these benefits. All the sender of a telegram has to do is to use his corres. pondent's telephone address, e.g., “Kelly, Dublin, 39124.” If he cannot ascertain his correspondent's telephone number but is aware that he has a telephone, the sender of a telegram may insert the word “Telephone.” free of charge, before the address of the message.

Telephone Service. —The growth of the telephone service was well maintained during the past year. Local traffic increased by 6,251,000 calls over the 1950 figure to 75,539,000; the number of trunk calls at 10,117,000 showed an increase of 683,000 over the corresponding figure for the previous year. There was no relaxation during 1951 in the effort to provide service for waiting applicants and a total of 6,639 new telephone lines were provided, of which 4,556 were in Dublin and 2,083 in the Provinces. This total exceeded that attained the previous year.

The policy of clearing waiting applications by exchange areas was continued, priority being given to those areas where there were outstanding 1949 or earlier applications. By disposing of the longest waiting applications in this way, a substantial improvement in the general position was effected. All but a few pre-1950 applicants and all but about 250 1950 applicants have now been offered service. The balance of some 5,500 applications at present on hand were all made last year or in the current year.

Work on the scheme for installing call offices in rural post offices was continued during the year and 171 new call offices were provided, which is a record number since the scheme was started, the numbers for 1948 and 1950 being 91 and 73 respectively. Over 80 extra call offices have been opened this year to a recent date.

As I indicated earlier in the year, I have decided to speed up further the work on the rural call office programme with a view to providing public telephones in the remaining 500 odd offices still without them within a period of approximately two years.

This will be a considerable undertaking, for most of the post offices in question are in remote areas and the erection of hundreds of miles of new poles and wire will be involved; but I believe the work is important and warrants a certain measure of priority over ordinary rural telephone lines for individuals, not only because it will bring the benefits of the telephone service earlier to remote rural communities, but also because it will help rural telephone development by extending the telephone network into areas not previously served, and so facilitate at a later stage the work of providing service for prospective applicants in those areas. The demands on skilled staff of the expanded call office programme will necessitate the deferment of applications for long rural lines involving abnormal construction work —excepting, of course, applications in the essential service groups—but for the reasons I have mentioned and in view of the improvement in the waiting applicant position generally this deferment will not be too much to pay for the speed-up in the work on the rural call office scheme. In order to ensure that this work is planned and carried out in the most efficient and economical manner, in conjunction with the work of providing service for waiting applicants, the order of installation will be determined entirely by engineering considerations. This will mean that some areas will not be reached at all this year, but on the other hand the concentration of engineering effort should enable all areas to be reached and the call office scheme to be completed in the shortest possible time.

In order to obtain the maximum return as soon as possible from expensive new plant and equipment, exchange areas on the new cable route and where new automatic equipment has been or is being provided will receive special attention during the current year. Twenty-three new kiosks were provided during 1951. It is hoped to provide many more during the current year.

The capacity of the Dublin automatic system was considerably increased during the year by the opening of a new main automatic exchange in Thomas Lane to serve the central city area. The automatic system was also extended to the Finglas and Swords areas. Work is proceeding on the installation of equipment in the new trunk exchange at St. Andrew Street and in the new automatic exchange in Mount Merrion. It is hoped to bring the Mount Merrion exchange into service shortly and to have portion of the St. Andrew Street exchange working this Summer. Installation of a new automatic exchange at Clondalkin to serve the Clondalkin-Tallaght area will commence within the next few months and it is expected that the new system will be brought into service early in 1953.

Normally the underground cable network of a city or large town should carry a sufficient proportion of spare telephone circuits to meet growth and provide alternative lines immediately for subscribers whose lines are found to be faulty. Owing to the demands made on the Dublin underground system during the war and subsequent years and to the fact that from 1948 to 1951 subscribers were joined at the expense of essential new trunk and maintenance work, I have had to take courage and direct a considerable staff to renewing and supplementing the Dublin cable system.

The staff directed to carry out this work will be unable in consequence to join annually about 500 subscribers in the Dublin area. However, by the time the staff commence operations, we will have joined so many more Dublin subscribers than in the corresponding eight months of 1951 that no one will notice any extra delay this year and I hope to complete the work in a relatively short period. The result will release more staff from repair work later on. In this connection, I am aware that there are undesirable delays in repairing faults and the matter is receiving attention while the volume of faults will be steadily reduced.

During the year, arrangements were made to improve estimation of delay on calls and to obviate as far as possible the need for further enquiries by subscribers about probable duration of delay after such estimates have been given. The latter object has been secured by arranging that the subscriber is advised in advance if an estimate of delay on a call already given is likely to be exceeded. The procedure has worked very satisfactorily and has resulted in a reduction in the number of enquiries and complaints.

The cycle of telephone traffic reaches its peak in the months of July, August and September each year. The provision of adequate staff to handle the traffic at all times but particularly during the long Summer evenings and during special occasions, such as the Horse Show, when traffic is much heavier than normal, is a difficult problem. In an effort to meet the situation, it has recently been decided to recruit a special temporary part-time force of male officers. They are all existing employees of the Department and it has been arranged that, following suitable training, such members of them as may be required from time to time on special occasions will be called in to operate.

In view of the importance of providing the best possible training for telephonists, special efforts are being made to improve training facilities. At Dublin voice recording apparatus has been used to enable trainees to hear their own voices; a special training switchboard is being provided and it is also hoped to supplement ordinary instruction by the use of films. Refresher course for telephonists who had passed the training stage and for supervisors were continued during the year.

During the past year, the whole of the complex regulations governing the work of the telephone operators of both sexes in the Exchequer Street exchange have been examined and changed, where necessary, and a complete investigation of the physical conditions, rest periods, and social amenities has also been undertaken. Considerable modifications and improvements in the general amenities of the Central Telephone Exchange have been effected, under my personal supervision.

All the staff grades have been most helpful in making suggestions, overcoming difficulties and reducing to negligible proportions the frictions that inevitably arise when absolute efficiency is required under conditions of tension. The result has been, I am glad to say, highly commended by the public at large, and I hope to report further progress next year. This is apart from representation made and examined by the staff associations concerned and which are the subject of general Civil Service control. These are in course of investigation and relate in many instances to the scheme of Civil Service arbitration now again in operation.

In the Provinces, a new auto-manual exchange was opened at Dundalk and installation of equipment was begun in an auto-manual exchange at Waterford. Small automatic exchanges were installed last year at Castlecomer and Mitchelstown and further exchanges of the same kind have been provided this year at Carrickmacross, Trim and Tullow. Nine small automatic exchanges will be provided this year at Nenagh, Muine Bheag and Maynooth. Switchboard equipment at 99 manual exchanges was extended.

During 1951 trunk service over many routes was substantially improved, mostly by the bringing into use of circuits provided by the Southern Trunk Cable. For some months past a demand service has been given between all exchanges on the routes Dublin - Nass - Port Laoighise-Roscrea-Limerick - Mallow - Cork; Dublin - Kilkenny and Dublin-Port Laoighise-Tullamore-Clara. The long distance co-axial circuits are now working on the Dublin-Port Laoighise-Limerick-Cork cable routes, and it is expected that the remaining circuits to be obtained from the cable will be in service later in the year.

The co-axial trunk cable to the Border to link with a similar cable being laid by the British Post Office from Belfast was laid last year and recently some temporary circuits in it have been brought into operation on the Dublin-Drogheda-Dundalk routes providing a demand service, except for a short time during the busiest portion of the day when there is a little delay. More circuits which will eliminate this are expected within a few months. It will take about another year at least to instal, test and bring the terminal equipment required for the long-distance circuits to Belfast into operation.

Moreover it has now been decided to go ahead as soon as practicable with a further major underground cable scheme to serve the West and North-West but it will be at least two to three years before it can be laid and brought into use. This cable will run from Dublin to Sligo with a branch to Athlone to link with the Southern trunk cable.

When the Southern co-axial cable is brought into service within the next few months a 12-channel carrier system now in use in the Dublin-Limerick route will be transferred to the Dublin-Sligo route. This will double the number of trunk circuits between Dublin and Sligo. In the Southern trunk cable circuits have been provided: as far as Athlone for extension to the West. As far as Limerick and Mallow for extension to the South-West.

In order to complete these extensions from the cable terminals as rapidly as possible arrangements are being made to purchase some new 12-channel carrier systems. The order for this equipment has been placed and delivery is expected to commence about next September. Installation will take a few months longer. These systems will be installed between Athlone cable terminal and Galway; Athlone and Claremorris; Sligo and Letterkenny. The circuits serving Letterkenny and Lifford will be rearranged at the same time; Mallow cable terminal and Killarney.

The 12-channel carriers specifled above will greatly increase the capacity of the main trunk routes to the centres now most heavily overloaded in the North-Western, Western and SouthWestern areas and will enable a no delay service to be given on these routes.

In addition to the 12-channel carriers, however, the following other circuit additions are proposed:—

Claremorris—Ballina—3 additional (by 3 channel) carrier.

Athlone—Ballinasloe ,,,,,, ,,,,,,

Sligo—Donegal ,,,,,, ,,,,,,

Sligo—Ballyshannon ,,,,,, ,,,,,,

(in hand).

Limerick—Tralee ,,,,,, ,,,,,,

Cork—Tralee ,,,,,, ,,,,,,

It is hoped that it will also be possible to erect some additional physical circuits on other routes in those areas. The principal ones proposed are: Letterkenny-Burton Port, Letterkenny-Milford, Letterkenny-Lifford, Lifford-Raphoe.

The foregoing proposals for the West and North-West are intended to meet requirements in advance of the laying of underground trunk cable from Dublin to Mullingar with branches to Athlone and Sligo.

In view of the relatively high telephone density in the neighbourhood of Dublin and Cork special attention will be given to improvement of the trunk service in these areas.

Other circuits in course of construction will be as follows: Dublin-An Uaimh, Dublin-Ceanannus Mór, Dublin-Carlow and Athy, Dublin-Edenderry, Dublin-Wicklow. When the Southern and Northern cables are in operation a number of overhead physical wires will also be thrown spare and will be used to improve local trunk services.

The remaining 200 miles of trunk line constructed will be given to other routes where relief is badly needed, for example: Mullingar - Granard, Cavan-Belturbet, Castleblayney-Cootehill, Arva-Killeshandra, and the other districts in Donegal which I have indicated.

During the current year special attention is being given to improvement of the telephone service in the areas around Dublin and Cork, as these areas have a relatively high telephone density. It is planned to provide about 650 miles of additional trunk circuits including the following:—

Dublin-An Uaimh (3 channel carrier), Dublin-Enniskerry (2 circuits), Dublin-Kilcock (2 circuits), Dublin-Rathoath (1 circuit); Wicklow-Greystones (2 circuits), Wicklow-Kilbride (1 circuit), Wicklow-Rathdrum (1 circuit), Wicklow-Aughrim (1 circuit); Arklow-Shillelagh (1 circuit); Dublin-Wicklow, Dublin-Ceanannus Mór, Dublin-Edenderry (as already indicated); Cork-Dunmanway (1 circuit), Cork-Kinsale (1 circuit); Mallow-Newmarket (1 circuit), Mallow-Lombardstown (1 circuit). Work is already commenced in certain cases.

Clearance of waiting applications in exchanges in the Dublin and Cork dormitory areas is also being given special attention. Work is proceeding or will shortly commence in many of the local exchange areas.

Early this year the restrictions on fixed time calls within the country were removed. The restrictions on the fixed time service on the cross-channel route will be removed very shortly.

A new service known as the alarm clock service whereby subscribers may arrange with the local exchange to call them at a specified time in the early morning or at any other time has recently been introduced. The service should be useful, for example, to subscribers who wish to be sure of catching an early morning train.

Arrangements are being made to obtain a supply of coloured telephone instruments (i.e., in colours other than black; for example, ivory, red, green), and these will be supplied to new subscribers, if required, in place of the standard black instruments at an extra charge.

Because of the volume of urgent engineering work on hand and in prospect, it is not proposed, for the present, to accede to requests for replacements of existing (black) instruments by coloured instruments.

Some 500 post offices out of a total of 1,500 equipped with public telephones are not provided with silence cabinets, which are a form of telephone booth used to afford privacy and quiet for the making of calls on the public telephones. Of the 500 without cabinets very few can show any considerable user; cabinets will be provided in all cases where any appreciable use is made of the public telephone.

The present type of cabinet, costing about £90 each new, is an expensive item, owing to the superior standard of construction (for example, double glass panels) used for sound-proofing and exclusion of noise. It is not, therefore, the practice at present to provide cabinets at offices where the user does not exceed an average of about 3s. 6d. a day (this would represent only one or two trunk calls), nor are cabinets provided for new rural call offices unless it is clear they will be warranted by the user.

Owing to the high cost of the present type of standard cabinet, the question of designing a simpler and less expensive kind of cabinet for smaller offices is being examined, but it will be some time before much progress can be reported because of the volume of urgent work in hand.

There is still abnormal delay on calls to Great Britain because of shortage of circuits in the cross-channel cables. Arrangements have been made with the British Post Office to fit submarine repeaters on two existing cables which will increase the number of circuits from 47 to 108. It is hoped to have the additional circuits in service some time next year.

During 1951 continouous telephone service was provided at 31 exchanges where the hours of service were previously restricted. Facilities were also provided whereby emergency calls may be made after normal post office hours from a number of post office call offices in areas where a day service only is given. In areas where the Garda station is vacated at night and where there are doctors, nursing homes and hotels suitable arrangements for night-connections are made whenever possible. I should like to add that my Department is anxious to provide continuous service for all subscribers and has gone a considerable distance in this direction as indicated by the fact that over 94 per cent. of subscribers' lines have 24-hour service. The cost of providing all-night attendance at small exchanges where not more than one or two night calls would be made in the course of a whole week would, however, be out of all proportion to the revenue from such calls. It is always open to the subscriibers concerned to obtain extended or continuous attendance by bearing the extra cost themselves.

It is yet too early to assess the full effects of the increases in telephone charges, some of which did not become operative till 1st January last. Although there has been, as might be expected, some falling off in the number of applications for new telephones, demand still continues at a fairly high level and there has been no reduction in call traffic.

I would like to take this opportunity of replying to certain criticisms of the increases.

It has been represented that the increased charges are intended to fleece telephone users for the benefit of the telegraph and postal services. This, of course, is not true. The telephone service had been practically unique in maintaining its charges at little more than pre-war rates until late last year but wage rates had increased by over 90 per cent., the cost of engineering materials had advanced on average by over 180 per cent., and the plain fact was that the service could not operate on pre-war charges plus 5 per cent. indefinitely. If telephone charges had not been increased last year there would have been a substantial deficit estimated at £100,000 on the working of the service in 1951/52 and a deficit of at least £250,000 in the current financial year. The increases imposed will only be about just sufficient to save the general taxpayer from having to bear a loss on the telephone service in addition to the losses on the postal and telegraph services.

It is surprising what misconceptions exist in regard to the provision and cost of telephone service. We have had critics comparing the rental of a telephone with the cost of an instrument and there are many people who think that telephone service is laid on like electricity or gas—by tapping a common supply in street mains outside the subscriber's gate or by tapping the line of the subscriber next door. They do not realise that not only does every telephone subscriber have individual plant at his premises but he is also provided with a pair of wires for his exclusive use running all the way to the exchange which may be several miles distant. Moreover, at the exchange each subscriber's line must be provided with terminating equipment; in automatic exchanges this may cost up to £50 per line. Heavy capital cost must, therefore, be incurred in providing a telephone for each subscriber and, of course, expert engineering and operating staff must be available at all times to attend to calls and keep each circuit in proper working order. The public may be interested to know that the annual charges for interest and depreciation alone on telephone plant is at present about £10 per line which is considerably more than most subscribers pay in rental. Moreover, the average capital cost of providing a telephone line is now roughly about £150. The cost of providing a single rural line may run to several hundred pounds towards which the subscriber pays only a comparatively small rental. Contrary to popular belief, there is no installation charge.

A departmental committee has been set up to examine telephone rates and charges and to make recommendations. In particular, the committee will examine the rates for rural telephone lines and the possibility of offering party line telephones (with secrecy if practicable) at attractive and economic rates.

In this connection I am completely dissatisfied with the long-established tradition, unchanged since 1921, whereby it has been made as difficult as possible for farmers to have telephones. Every obstacle in the way of deposit charges, rental charges, to be paid in advance, is placed in their way.

We have about one-tenth of the telephones installed with farmers of any given acreage compared with any agricultural exporting country in Europe. Compared with cigarettes, wireless, motor cars, rural electrification, the telephone is virtually unknown in rural districts. It is true that farmers have not been vociferous for a change, but they have never been properly canvassed by methods similar to those used by the Electricity Supply Board.

The difficulties to be surmounted are grave. Insufficiency of electrical engineers graduating from the universities not only makes it difficult to overcome the existing backlog of applications for service, but to extend planning on any very large-scale basis beyond that indicated in the Estimate. However, the committee will carry out my instructions as expeditiously as possible.

It is unlikely that we will receive a subsidy for rural telephone development work, and we may have to ask our subscribers, as a whole, to invest in rural telephone development, knowing that when the telephone habit has become universal the cost of telephones will be less compared with other non-expanding services.

Buildings and Supplies. —In regard to the Department's building programme, a fair amount of progress was achieved during the past year. New telephone exchange buildings are nearing completion at Waterford and Athlone, and have already been completed at Dunboyne, Maynooth, Muine Bheag, Trim and Tullow, at Hamman Buildings, Dublin, and at Clondalkin and Stillorgan, County Dublin. Demolition operations were carried out on sites at Drogheda, where post office and telephone exchange buildings are to be erected, and Limerick, where a new telephone exchange is proposed. Structural improvements to existing post office premises were carried out at Cork, Carrick-on-Shannon, Boyle and Wexford, and a newly-acquired premises at Cahirciveen was converted to serve as a post office. As a result of major alterations in the General Post Office, Dublin, substantial additional studio and ancillary accommodation for Radio Éireann has been made available. Other building works or schemes of structural alterations in course of completion are: a new post office and telephone exchange at St. Andrew Street, Dublin, improvements scheme at Ballyhaunis Post Office, construction of a new mechanical transport repair shop and garage at St. John's Road, Dublin, and extensive adaptation of premises in Distillery Road, Dublin, to serve as an engineering garage and workmen's headquarters.

Building operations are due to commence in the current year on the erection of new post office and telephone exchange buildings at Drogheda, Kilrush and Rath Luire, on Telephone exchange buildings at Sutton, Mullingar and Limerick, and on improvement schemes at Ballina, Bray, Birr, Cahir, Clonmel, Clifden, Enniscorthy, Port Laoighise and Tralee Post Offices.

Preliminary arrangements for the erection of new buildings or for structural improvement schemes at Dundalk, Kilkenny, Letterkenny, Naas, Wicklow, Athenry, Galway, Youghal, Port Laoighise, Sligo, and at a number of other places are well under way.

In all the building projects to which I have referred my Department has had due regard to the question of suitable welfare facilities for its staffs, and there will, I think, be no cause for complaints on this score.

I have been trying for some time past to have set in motion a campaign having for its object the brightening up of my Department's public offices throughout the country. I consider it highly desirable that the post offices in our provincial towns should present a really attractive appearance. Not only is this desirable in the interest of our own people who use the post office all the year round and for the bulk of whom the post office is probably the only State buildings in which they ever have occasion to transact business, but also in the interest of the passing tourists whose opinion of the standard of our State buildings, and perhaps indeed of our State services, may very well be based on the general appearance of the provincial post offices they visit during their stay with us. The present appearance—both internal and external—of our post offices does, I am afraid, leave much to be desired, but I am hopeful that the full co-operation of my colleague in the Office of Public Works will be forthcoming in ensuring that there will be a progressive increase in the amount and an improvement in the quality of the redecoration work each year henceforth until the stage is reached when we can feel satisfied that a standard of appearance has been achieved which is beyond reasonable criticism.

In order to improve the interior appearance of post offices and to end the present haphazard practice whereby public notices are affixed to walls and windows, thus creating a general impression of untidiness, it was decided last year, in consultation with other Government Departments interested, to introduce a system whereby notices for public exhibition would be of standard sizes for exhibition in standard size notice boards.

The Office of Public Works was accordingly requested to supply a hundred boards, each capable of accommodating eight 18'' × 12'' notices and three 12'' × 9'' notices for issue to Head Offices, Dublin Branch and District Offices and Class VI Offices.

I mentioned last year that an extensive new site would need to be acquired for a Central Sorting Office in Dublin. Agreement for the acquisition of the site was reached and legal arrangements for completing transfer of the property are in train.

I intimated last year that considerable quantities of stores and materials were in course of purchase to provide against a shortage of supplies. Very substantial deliveries have since been effected, the stocks concerned constituting an emergency reserve for the maintenance of services and the continuance of telephone development.

Staffing. —Everyone must, I am sure, realise that staffing costs represent the lion's share of post office expenditure. This is necessarily so as so much of the facilities given by the Department involve personal service by someone or other—the counter clerk, the sorter, the postman, the telephonist, the telegraphist, the technician, the electrician and the installer. In fact, of the present gross Estimate figure of over £7,000,000 no less than £4,585,160 is provided in the various sub-heads for staff, the A group, I (1) and Q (1), and adding the £377,300 for superannuation, the total required for the human element is not far short of £5,000,000.

With a wages bill of such dimensions it is obvious that any increase in pay, no matter how small it may appear to the individual officer who gets it, will have a substantial effect on the Department's finances. In fact the increase in wages effected last year requires the provision of an additional £592,000 in the current year's Estimate. Of the total £75,580 covers all supervisory grades from Staff Officer, Grade III, in the general service and Overseer in the departmental grades and upwards, over £516,000 going to the rank and file grades. Had it not been for this pay increase the overall deficit would work out at under £500,000.

On the other hand I must point out, in regard to staff costs, that the number of Post Office employees has not had to be increased to anything like the same extent as the increase in traffic handled. For statistical purposes the Post Office reduces the various items of work to a unit value. Using this system, postal traffic in 1951 was 47 per cent. above 1939, telegraph traffic 105 per cent. above 1939, telephone trunk traffic 104 per cent. above 1939 and local traffic 115 per cent. above 1939. In striking contrast the total staff increased by only 26 per cent. in the same period.

While these figures are striking it might well be asked whether this represents the limit in efficient working and whether in fact the organisation of duties and the methods used are the most economical that can be designed. To that question I would answer that the search for greater efficiency is a continuous thing in my Department. Seeing that the operation of the various services run by the Department are so much influenced by outside factors, e.g., changes in population, changes in the method and timings of transport, improvements in technical processes, it is inevitable that the idea of change in method is accepted as something normal, and throughout the Department many different blocks of staff are engaged wholly or mainly on the job of altering services to meet changed conditions or improving them within the same set of conditions.

The idea that procedures and methods should not be static naturally permeated the sections dealing with internal clerical work and during the years very many changes have been made. For instance, when the Savings Bank was set up here in 1923 a mechanised system of accounting was adopted from the start designed by officers of the Accountant's Branch after examination of the systems used in European countries.

Just as in manufacturing and commercial organisations, however, it is true that the idea of special campaigns to improve methods in the sphere of clerical working was of much later date than similar campaigns on the manipulative side. Organisation and methods as such, that is, the assignment to particular officers of the fulltime job of improving methods only started here about 1945, though it is relevant to point out that in this the Department of Posts and Telegraphs were pioneers in the Civil Service of this country. This special examination of organisation and methods, on which two officers are engaged at a cost of approximately £1,300 per annum, has produced not alone greater efficiency but economies in staffing which in the aggregate amount to at least £16,000 a year. And as already indicated, very many important improvements in procedure were made as bright ideas occurred to individuals during all the years beforehand. This process still goes on. In general people on clerical work do not wait for an O. & M. investigation if they themselves can see some way of bettering things. Literally hundreds of improvements, some big, some small, have been made even without the help of the O. & M. scheme.

The Department's O. & M. officers keep in touch with similar officers in other Departments here so as to keep abreast of any improvements which have been effected elsewhere. Moreover, both the O. & M. officers and those officers who are concerned with the manipulative working in the postal, telegraph and telephone services keep in touch with practice in other postal administrations by means of the information services run by the international organisations and by direct discussions with officers of other countries where necessary.

Akin to this subject is that of the training of staff. The Post Office was also a pioneer in staff training so far as this country was concerned. All over the world it has been proved that while you can learn by experience you can learn very much better—and much easier—when experience is supplemented by formal training courses. Training systems are in operation— some have been in operation for quite a few years—for postal staff in Dublin and Cork, for telephonists throughout the country, for engineering branch workmen, and for the clerical, etc., staffs in Dublin. In addition, periodical conferences are held for telephone supervisors and a conference for postmasters is held every two years, in the course of which there is a two-way interchange of information between postmasters and the administrative staffs at headquarters. Conversely, members of the headquarters staff go on short visits to provincial centres to study the provision of the various services to the public and the organisation, procedures and problems of postmasters' offices.

Savings Banks. —A fairly substantial increase in business is reflected by the figures for 1951 both as regards the Post Office Savings Bank and the Trustee Banks.

Deposits in the former rose from £11,285,000 in 1950 to £12,658,000 in 1951, withdrawals from £8,190,000 to £8,650,000 and the net receipts, or surplus of deposits over withdrawals, from £3,095,000 to £4,008,000. Interest earned during the year is estimated at £1,218,000 and the addition of this sum, plus the surplus receipts, to depositors' balances brings the amount due to them at the end of 1951 to approximately £53,359,000.

Deposits in the year by the Trustee Savings Banks amounted to £991,000, withdrawals to £268,000, and interest earned to £217,000. The deposits were £183,000 more than those for the preceding year, the withdrawals £174,000 less. The balance to credit of the Trustee Banks at the end of the year was approximately £8,048,000.

The combined balances, Post Office and Trustee, at 31st December amounted to £61,406,000, as compared with £55,241,000 at the same date the previous year.

Savings Certificates. —Business for the year showed little change as compared with the previous year. Receipts from sales amounted to £1,479,000. Repayment of principal to £1,015,000 and interest to £417,000. Corresponding figures for 1950 were £1,409,000, £958,000 and £397,000.

The amount of principal due to investors at the end of the year stood at £13,477,000, as compared with £13,012,000 at the end of 1950.

A new issue of Savings Certificates, giving a more attractive return for the initial investment, was placed on sale in May, 1952.

Conciliation and Arbitration. —Prior to the suspension of the conciliation and arbitration scheme on 31st May, 1951, a number of recommendations had been made by the departmental council on staff claims covering large numbers of staff of various grades in the engineering branch and in the postal and telegraph services. All the recommendations made, which involved substantial increases in pay, were accepted and eventually implemented. When the scheme was suspended there were six staff claims in course of hearing by the council, and a further six on hands awaiting hearing, with others in preparation. When operations can be resumed every effort will be made to expedite treatment of the outstanding claims.

In concluding, I should like to pay tribute to the zealous and efficient service which has been rendered throughout the year by the staff of all grades.

I move that the Estimate be referred back. We are somewhat disappointed with the Minister's speech. It has been in conformity with the speeches which we have heard from him during the last 12 months. With regard to "stores other than engineering materials," I notice that under sub-head G (1)—Stores—there is a decrease this year of £53,100, and that under sub-head G (2)—Uniform Clothing—there is a decrease of £126,300. I find that under sub-head K —Engineering Materials—the decrease amounts to £246,750. We are told now, 12 months after, that, as a result of the accumulations of uniform and engineering materials which had been stockpiled, we are able to have these decreases. We find that these accumulations are now of benefit to the present Government. That is the position, although the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance have stated that the only stockpiling that was done was in the matter of mouse-traps and consumer goods. The stockpiling, however, was such in regard to engineering materials and uniform clothing, which is supplied not only to the Post Office but to every other Government Department, that it has been sufficient to enable the Minister to reduce expenditure under these sub-heads this year by the figures I have given.

The Minister, in his speech, gave us, as in the case of the curate's egg, the good portions and the bad portions. He sounded a note of warning, and said that, if we are going to demand the continuation and extension of the daily delivery of letters in the rural areas, there will have to be further increases. I appealed to him last year to stand up to the Department of Finance which is always out for economy. Over the last 20 years, its first move, in the line for economy, always was to attack the daily delivery of letters in the rural areas, while giving extra deliveries in the cities and the towns. What that means, of course, is that we are to make the people in the rural areas suffer all the disadvantages and inconveniences for the sake of giving extra facilities in the cities and the towns.

The Minister points out that he is afraid that there will have to be increases unless we can give a guarantee to the Department of Finance of being able to avoid extra burdens on that Department by a continuance of the policy of grouping areas in regard to the facilities afforded to the people. Why should the people in the rural areas have to suffer? Why should they have to make sacrifices for the sake of the people in the cities and towns who have all the facilities? The Minister has said that if Deputies are going to press for further extensions, in the case of the rural areas, he will be faced with the problem of increasing charges.

The Minister points out that a committee is examining the rates and charges, to arrange attractive and economic rates. Does that mean that they are to be further increased, even if a lesser demand is made for telephones? I maintain that the Minister is making the user of the telephone pay for the loss on telegrams. There was a loss of over £40,000 on telegrams and a surplus of about £45,000 on telephones. Why not continue and expand into the rural areas and not refuse business people and others there the telephones they need so badly? If there is a surplus, that would increase the amount of that surplus.

The Minister points to the experience of Denmark. We do not need to go to Denmark. We understood that wonderful things would happen after the Minister's previous visit, but he only points out that Denmark has reduced the deficit by increasing the charges. We all know you can increase charges, but will that bring in extra customers? Will increased charges mean that many business people and others will continue to use telephones? We must view this from our own national point of view—not that of the Department of Finance, that a particular section must pay—and we must look on the Post Office, as a whole, as a national service. Why should the person in a backward rural area not have similar facilities to those people in the cities?

I press the Minister to continue the reorganisation of the rural areas, to give the people there daily postal deliveries, instead of two deliveries a week, as in many of the outlying areas. Quite often, a person may not get a letter, telling of the illness of a relative, until after they have received a telegram telling of that relative's death. We know that if the delivery is on a Friday, the school may be closed and the letters not delivered until the children are returning from school on the following Monday or Tuesday. Letters mean nothing unless there is a daily or frequent delivery. As I know for the last 20 years, every time the Department of Finance is out for economy they attack a section of the rural areas by reducing the postal deliveries. They were reduced ten or 15 years ago, and we have been unable to get them back since then.

The Minister speaks of facilities in Donegal. I understood two years ago, according to the report given to me, that an arrangement was made with the British authorities for the supply of new equipment. I was surprised that some of the equipment had not been installed on the islands. Surely when the data had been supplied to the engineering section and the apparatus was ready there was nothing to prevent the Department putting that apparatus on the islands so that we would have some report by now as to its usefulness or otherwise.

The Minister speaks of improving the building scheme. There can be no hope whatever for that while he is depending on the Board of Works, which is faced with providing schools, Garda barracks, harbours and things like that. If the Post Office is ever to improve the facilities in the provincial areas, they will have to use their own labour scheme or their own building scheme. They must have architects in provincial areas to carry out the plans submitted to and approved by the Board of Works. If they wait for the Board of Works architects, it will take too long. The Minister must realise how necessary it is to provide proper sanitation in some of these provincial offices. If he leaves it to the Board of Works, the offices will be condemned by the county medical officer of health. If they were private property and a business man had a staff working there, instead of it being a Government Department, the county medical officer of health and the public board would be sending resolutions denouncing that private individual and ordering him to put in proper sanitation, amenities and accommodation for the staff. If he waits for the Board of Works, not one of the offices he has visited, where he is anxious to see repairs done, will have those repairs carried out.

I intended to arrange a scheme for our own architects and engineers and for our own building schemes—as has been done in the last 30 years in my constituency, in conformity with the regulations of the Board of Works and the Department of Local Government. In that way we would have our own staff and need not wait for the Board of Works, but could carry on from one area to another. There is no use in building a big office in Dublin while the staff in provincial areas are left in houses and offices that a private individual would not be allowed to use. I am glad that a start is being made on a central sorting office in Dublin. I know the difficulties there are in trying to secure a site.

I wish now to deal with a complaint in regard to a question here some time ago. Where a Deputy puts down a question I maintain that where it interests the public he is entitled to get an answer without any equivocation. I raised a question here and the Minister told me it was a private matter. I thought at the time there were some special arrangements concerned. Then I received word—which was not marked "confidential" nor was there anything private in the document from the Minister. I raised the point here over priority being given to a subscriber in a very remote place in my constituency while a large number of subscribers in my constituency—at the time, even a doctor— had made several applications for transfers of telephones, and were not able to get them. The Minister gets into the public Press, even the local paper, to try to make a case. He states that it was during my time that this application was decided on. During my time I remember the difficulty in the Department that where you had a large number of poles or wires to erect, unless you could prove exceptional circumstances, the Department would refuse. Anyone can see the answers here in the House where various Deputies made such appeals.

None of us forget the answers we received when we made representations for the installation of a telephone in certain places. We were told that the Department would not agree to it. The Minister states that some official sent out a letter to the effect that the application in question was to be given priority. I do not know all that happened. I was not aware that the person applied for a telephone. If my attention were drawn to it I should never have agreed to the use of over 11½ miles of wire, 156 poles and an expenditure of £750 to provide a telephone in one particular place while the rest of the people in the area had not the use of a telephone. The people in a few houses in the area could not believe what happened. We did not get down a photographer from the Irish Press to take a photograph in that connection. Why? Was it not simply and solely because the public were under the impression that, due to the outbreak of war in Korea, this country might be involved and that we were transferring the President from the Phoenix Park to this isolated place and that that was the reason for all the rushing about and the putting up of poles and telephone wires in that part of County Wicklow? The applicant for the telephone got priority because undue influence was brought to bear on the Minister.

The Deputy should be the last to talk about "undue influence".

You were afraid to stand by your round robin signature.

You were the cause of getting Mr. Farrell to get it.

Go on to your British Queens. They suit you and you will be all right. Go to the Tans.

When I was fighting the Tans I never met you.

And I never met you.

Is this an argument for the abolition of Partition?

Talk about other things that happened. Go back to what happened in Galway a few weeks ago and in your own constituency in Tipperary. Deputy Davern ought to be more careful.

North Mayo.

I have tested the people and they have given their answer, Mayor.

For the time being.

I asked the Minister to tell us the cost and the rent for installing this particular telephone. He has refused to give us the information. He states that it is not in the public interest to do so. Then I received a letter which proved that over 11½ miles of wire and 156 poles were used to install that isolated telephone while at the same time people in various constituencies were refused the facility of a telephone. We are told now that there will be a further restriction on the installation of telephones. Before the Minister gets into correspondence in the local Press I think he should make a statement on the matter in this House. The Minister has other men to deal with the correspondence. An explanation is required as to why other people were unable to get these facilities while one solitary individual was able to get a telephone at an expense of £750 to the taxpayers. Of course, you had a surplus of engineering materials in the Post Office at the time. You had a surplus of wire and of poles and, therefore, I suppose, it was no harm to spend more than £750 on one individual. Portion of that land will now be submerged, under the Electricity Supply Board scheme, and I suppose the people concerned will be looking for compensation in that respect. There might be some justification for the installation of that particular telephone if the individual concerned had not a fleet of motor cars or had illness or priority. That was not the case, however. There was no sickness and no case whatever for priority, and a fleet of cars was available. The granting of that application was a mistake and was unjustifiable, while other more deserving applicants were refused. By means of a motion in this House, we can get particulars of the official or officials who were responsible, as to the documents which were sent out and as to all the other things which were done. I shall probably take that step to clear up the matter. If what the official did is contrary to the policy of the Department and if priority is given only for certain reasons then I think we should have more information on the matter.

I do not intend to deal with staffing but it is frequently brought to our attention that there is an urgent need to erect new offices or to improve existing offices in various areas. I am glad to see that progress has been made with the extra staff called up from rural areas: it will be some facility for the people in the rural areas.

I have never known a departmental committee which did not recommend an increase and which did not look at the matter from the Civil Service point of view. They will always try to safeguard themselves and will recommend an increase to satisfy the Department of Finance. If there are further increases in telephone charges either in the rural areas or in the towns I warn the Minister that there will be fewer applicants. Quite a fair number of people at present will not avail of the telephone service. Does the Minister think that the reason for the smaller number of applicants for new telephones is the increase in the rental charge? It is argued, with some justification, that you have to pay for ever the rental for telephone equipment. A telephone may cost £10 to £20 and the subscriber must pay the rental charge for the equipment for the next 40 or 50 years. A number of representations have been made to me, as I am sure they have been made to the Minister, that when the equipment is paid for the rental charge should cease and that we should not have a charge such as the Electricity Supply Board has for the meter. Some years ago the meter cost a few pounds but now the people are being charged a certain amount every six months or every year.

If we are to be successful in our efforts to develop the telephone system in this country and to get farmers to avail of the service then we must offer greater facilities and some inducement to them to avail of the system. Any business man will argue: "Why should I pay a rental on equipment and hand it down to my children and let it become their liability?" A business man would prefer it to be free after five or ten years, as the case might be. In my opinion, you can develop the telephone system among the farming community only if you offer them some inducement or some facilities. I know of a number of farms which availed of the system and it proved a great boon. Instead of losing a day coming in to get their wheat, seed or oats, all they would have to do would be to phone up the seed merchant, when delivery would be effected within a few hours. To my own knowledge, these men often waste a whole day in coming to town and having to queue up outside the merchant's premises. The Minister should grant these men the facilities I mention.

I am sorry that the Minister painted such a gloomy picture of the state of the Post Office. He told us of the further deficit that will take place. While the Post Office is a business concern, it is also a State concern and, as such, should be used for national purposes. It should not be asked to show a surplus each year nor should the people be deprived of the facilities and amenities to which they are entitled from a national point of view. You have many other State services, such as the Army. In return for the money expended on the Army you get the protection of the country. They need not show a surplus, but the Post Office, which is supplying services to all the people of the community, is expected to show a surplus. While we should aim at that, I do not think it should be the primary consideration. What we should consider is not having a small deficit, but whether the people will be deprived of some of the benefits to which they are entitled. The Post Office is supplying services for all the other Departments. They do work for the Department of Industry and Commerce and the Department of Social Welfare. The people should not be expected to pay extra charges simply because some of the staff was employed in other Government Department work.

If the Minister increases the charges the service will not pay and there may be less work. At one time there was an appeal made to increase further the charges on the air mail deliveries. The Minister can look that up if he wishes. The appeal to increase the charges was resisted in the Post Office, with the result that the delivery of air mails is not now a losing proposition. If other Departments' requests had been acceded to, I believe you would have had a higher price, less work, less mails and a bigger deficit.

This is, perhaps, the one Department of State which is closest to the business community by virtue of the service it does for that community, and because it is run somewhat on business lines. In that connection, I am sorry to see that there will be an increased deficit this year. I would urge upon the Minister to examine the position very closely before he increases the charges.

One of the most important services carried out by the Department is the telephone service, and I am glad to see that there has been a continuous increase in the number of subscribers. The more subscribers there are, the better value there is to each person who has installed a telephone. One of the things we have suffered from in the country in the past is that, when a telephone subscriber went to the expense of getting a telephone, he found so very few other people were on the telephone service that he did not get the benefits which he might have expected. Now, with the ever increasing number, the benefits of the service are having a sort of snowball effect.

I am glad to see that the question of rural telephones is being kept very much to the fore in the Department. A 24-hour service to telephone subscribers is the ideal which should be aimed at. Anything short of a 24-hour service is only a makeshift. The Department should set about removing that bar. I think a 24-hour service is something that every subscriber should expect to get. To be quite fair to the Minister and the Department I think they fully realise that themselves.

In connection with the telephone, I am glad to say that I have personally noticed fewer delays in dialling "O", "31" and "39". I have noticed less delay than before. In my personal capacity I have made a special note of that. There has been a speeding up in the reply when you dial those particular numbers.

There is one thing in connection with the telephone service which I have mentioned before. At the beginning of the telephone book there are a series of instructions for the use of subscribers. Those instructions are very comprehensive. If one reads them it would well repay the trouble. The difficulty is that when a number of people are in a hurry to make use of the telephone—they may want to get on to inquiries or perhaps they may want to send a telegram—it is not very easy for them to find out what figures or letters should be dialled. I have raised this matter before and, although there has been an improvement in the lay-out of the instructions, I still do not think they are quite as clear as they should or could be. I think it is still too easy to spend a long time looking for the particular figures you have to dial.

In the course of his speech, the Minister mentioned that training facilities were continuing and that refresher courses were taking place from time to time in his Department for telephonists. I am glad of that. Does the Minister think that commercial firms would avail themselves of opportunities for training their own switchboard operators if the Department of Posts and Telegraphs were prepared to make such opportunities available? I have no idea whether or not this would be feasible, but I would like the Minister to inquire as to whether such a scheme would be availed of by the public. It seems to me that it would be of great use.

I notice that local trunk call facilities have been extended and are being continuously extended, which is a very important development. In rural areas in the past considerable delay has been experienced in getting trunk connections. The speeding up of these facilities would be a means of helping the public to appreciate fully the value of the telephone service. The Minister mentioned the delays in getting connections to Great Britain. Although the delays are not as long as they were formerly, they still exist. I wonder could the Minister tell me why it is that phoning Great Britain from Ireland is sometimes a lengthy process while phoning Ireland from Great Britain is usually only a matter of a few minutes? I have phoned up Ireland from the North of Scotland and got a connection in less than five minutes. In fact, I could not believe that the call had gone through so quickly. I have found, and I have heard it from other sources, that it is always quicker to phone Dublin from Great Britain than vice versa. This is something which the public do not understand and, perhaps, the Minister might like to refer to it when he is replying.

During the course of the last few years, the Department of Posts and Telegraphs generally has shown a great improvement. We are all aware that this Department has experienced considerable difficulties with regard to staff and that there were wartime and post-war shortages of materials of various sorts. Nevertheless, the public feel that, above all others, the Department of Posts and Telegraphs is a Department which tries to meet their demands. I am glad to see that the Minister and the Department are endeavouring to brighten the appearance of the post offices. As Deputy Everett said, some of these offices leave a great deal to be desired in the way of cleanliness and decoration. It is of great importance that the post offices should be as bright and as cheerful as possible.

Notices are pinned up in post offices directing the public to the various counters, but I do not think that these notices always set out clearly the position of particular sections. The particular section to which the public should go to get their children allowances forms stamped is not always clearly shown in the post offices. The counters dealing with various matters should be clearly indicated. In some offices they undoubtedly are, but not in all of them. A commercial concern, in its own interests, informs the public of the departments in which various items can be purchased, and the post offices should adopt the same method.

I would like to join with the Minister in paying tribute to Aer Lingus for the regularity of its postal services, especially during last winter, which was one of the worst flying winters with which pilots have had to contend. All during this period, the mails arrived safely, punctually and expeditiously. This entailed a great deal of work for which Aer Lingus should be congratulated.

There are not as many postal collections as formerly in the City of Dublin area. Sometimes that has an undesirable effect as regards commercial undertakings. Members of this House do not like to see the commercial community in any way handicapped by a lack of postal services. The difficulty, I suppose, is that the more services provided the greater the expense and the greater the deficit. However, I would urge on the Minister and his Department to bear in mind the responsibility that rests on them to provide sufficient postal services in the interests of the commercial community.

The Minister referred to the efficiency experts which he had in his Department and to the organisation and methods schemes which they carried out. We are all glad of that. In my view, the improvements which have been brought about in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs over the last two years have been due to these various schemes.

The Minister mentioned in his introduction that Thomas Moore Commemoration stamps were about to be issued in August and September. Many philatelists are very curious as to the denominations in which they will be issued, so perhaps the Minister, in his reply, would tell us whether they will be 2½d., 1d., or what?

We can be glad that the Post Office is continuing to do its work in a good fashion. There are difficulties but, nevertheless, in the main the work of this Department is carried out well. We regret on this side of the House that the Department is continuing to run at a deficit but we appreciate that in a country such as ours, where we have thinly-scattered communities, it is very difficult to make this Department pay in the way it does in thickly-populated countries and where there are not the long distances over which to deliver mails. In conclusion, I would say that we hope the Minister will continue to increase the efficiency of his Department and will continue at the same time to reduce the deficit that falls to the revenue.

I want to intervene only very briefly to impress upon the Minister in connection with a few matters which I think are of great importance as far as they relate to the general scheme of things in his Department. We are well aware that the Minister took over a Department that lagged behind very much in so far as facilities are concerned in comparison with that same Department in other countries, and I believe he is making an earnest effort to bring it up to the required standard. In some areas reorganisation is taking place and better facilities are being given by way of everyday delivery in rural areas and backward areas. This in many instances has resulted in throwing up other problems of almost as great a magnitude as those which he set out to solve.

I particularly refer to the redundancy caused in rural part-time postmen in the Donegal areas. It is a pity that when an effort is made to economise in the Department the officials, in trying to see where economies can be effected, never seem to think that any economies could be effected within the Department in relation to indoor staff. They always manage to take a few hours from a rural postman and consequently reduce his weekly allowance that is already far too small. This has happened in a number of cases in Donegal, and I would impress upon the Minister the necessity to amend that situation wherever it exists and to try to find alternative employment for those postmen who are rendered redundant as a result of the reorganisation of the area.

Take, for instance, the case of a man working 13 years in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs for a wage of £3 7s. 6d. per week. As a result of the rearrangement of his area he finds he has to support himself, his wife and seven children on a reduced wage of £2 14s. That is not in accordance with any Christian principles whatever economy it may effect in any Department. I wonder whether the officials in the Department who seek to effect economy in that way, would examine the situation within the Department and thus find greater opportunity for greater economy in their staff.

The number of these cases is definitely few, but the fact that they are there is all the more reason why a serious effort should be made to put those people back on the same basis on which they were working or to find alternative employment for them. There is no justification at this stage for reducing the weekly wage of any part-time postman, a weekly wage which was already very inadequate to meet rising costs and to maintain a family as most of those men must.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a part-time postman. A man who starts at 9 o'clock in the morning and finishes at 4 in the afternoon or sometimes about 6 is very often regarded as a part-time postman because he has a break during the day and the number of hours do not conform with that required before he can be regarded as full-time. The fact remains that he is not in a position to take up employment in any other capacity to supplement his income in any way. He has scarcely time to work the plot attached to his labourer's cottage when he returns in the evening after the long route either on foot or on bicycle. I would urge upon the Minister to examine personally these cases with a view to having the persons concerned put back in the position in which they were before or to find alternative employment for them. The number of these cases would be few and, as I pointed out, they were brought about by reorganisation, much of which was for the betterment of the general service in the area as a whole. I should also, in fairness to the Department, point out that, in some cases, reorganisation has resulted in improvement in the wages of certain rural postmen as a result of hours being added to the number of hours worked weekly.

In connection with telephones, we have a right to hope for increased services in regard to rural post offices during the year ahead. One of the previous speakers mentioned the advantage a telephone can be to the farming community. I think many areas would be quite content if they were sure that the rural sub-post offices in their immediate district would be provided with public telephone facilities in order to give them that more immediate contact with the outside world. Most farmers do not expect telephones installed in their house, and I am sure there are very few such applicants on the waiting-list at the moment. However, there are a great many rural areas where the sub-post office has no telephone facilities and the entire district is at a great disadvantage on that account. I would ask the Minister to speed up as much as possible the installation of telephones in sub-post offices in rural areas where they are not already installed.

In the matter of priority it is difficult sometimes to understand why people are required to wait so long. The type of applicant I find most inconvenienced is that type of person who runs a guest-house but which is not registered as a guest-house. I understand there is a certain priority for hoteliers and proprietors of guesthouses in the matter of the installation of telephone facilities, but there are a great many people who give very good service in this way although their premises are not registered as such. These people are entitled to be recognised and the necessary priority given to them because they are giving just as good a service to the nation as is given by the proprietors of those houses which may be registered with the Tourist Board. I appeal to the Minister to give particular attention to these matters. As I said at the outset, we all appreciate the fact that he took over a Department which was lagging behind in relation to the provision of those modern facilities that may be expected from any Department of Posts and Telegraphs to-day.

I am very glad to hear Deputy J. Brennan put forward the sensible and reasonable suggestion that when reorganisation of the rural delivery services is taking place it should not take place at the expense of rural postmen who have given long service and worked for a rate of wages, if one can call it a rate of wages, which was less than the agricultural rate prevailing in the district. I hope the Minister will take serious note of that sensible and reasonable suggestion. It affects other areas outside of that represented by Deputy J. Brennan.

I have always encouraged every Minister in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs to use his powers and influence with his colleagues in the Cabinet in an endeavour to extend the daily delivery system to every section of the community irrespective of the areas in which the people live. I am referring now to the rural areas. Inside the past five years there has been a considerable extension of the daily delivery system in my constituency, but I am now encouraging the present Minister to use the influence I know he has with the Minister for Finance and his Department to obtain the necessary money for the purpose of further extending that system. Every section of the community is entitled to the same service from a public utility department like the Post Office. I do not know how any Deputy can claim a daily and better delivery system for the cities and towns when he knows that facilities of that kind are sadly lacking in many of the rural areas.

The most significant point in this Estimate is the huge reduction in the sub-heads providing for stores. There is a reduction of £53,110 for stores. For uniform clothing, as compared with the previous year, there is a reduction of £126,300. For engineering materials, as compared with the previous year, the aggregate reduction is £246,750, practically a quarter of a million. Is it not a wonder the Minister did not pay a tribute in his well prepared speech to his predecessor and to the members of the inter-Party Government for having built up stocks to such an extent that he can now justify, or attempt to justify, huge reductions of this type? Whether or not that stockpiling was done by the inter-Party Government and the Minister's predecessor does not affect my argument. These huge reductions in the sub-heads to which I have referred will have very serious consequences on employment. We are repeatedly told about the recession in trade and the effect that recession is having upon employment, unemployment and the circulation of money.

Can the Minister give us any estimate of the loss of employment that must follow as a natural consequence as a result of the reduction in the Estimate under the sub-head covering uniform clothing? There are huge quantities of surplus material lying in the premises of the clothing manufacturers. Yet, this year we have a reduction in the supply of uniform clothing. The clothing trade generally is suffering to a greater extent from unemployment and part-time working than any other section of industry outside of the boot and shoe industry. On what grounds then does the Minister justify the large reduction under the head of uniform clothing? Apart altogether from that, I suggest that it is desirable to maintain a reserve supply at a fixed minimum figure in connection with uniform clothing and engineering materials.

To relieve the Deputy's mind, we are maintaining reserves.

On what grounds then can the Minister justify these huge reductions? Is it on the ground that the Minister for Finance has drummed it into his head that the country is supposed to be on the verge of bankruptcy? Is it the type of economy that old Deputies like myself understand so well, namely the pressure that is brought to bear upon a weak Minister —if there is one—by the Minister and the Department of Finance? I am not suggesting that the present Minister is a weak Minister. I am satisfied he is an efficient administrator. Is he, however, submitting to the pressure of his friend and colleague, the master Minister for Finance, in effecting these reductions which will create unemployment in the industries that supply uniform clothing, engineering materials and other stores to the Post Office? There is bound to be a reduction in employment in so far as the suppliers of these commodities are concerned.

Is it a fact that the Minister and his advisers are in favour of the abolition of horse-drawn transport in the Post Office, particularly in Dublin city? I am one of those who disagree completely with the mechanisation of everything. I foresee the day—I hope I am wrong-when we will have mechanised transport in the Post Office, mechanised agriculture and mechanised Ministers and we will all be left standing to attention if and when another world war breaks because such a war will affect an island country like this to a greater extent than it will affect many other countries. As the son of a small farmer I have never lost the outlook of the countryside where I was born and reared. I regard the horse in agriculture, the horse used in Post Office transport or the horse anywhere else as something that provides useful employment for the harness maker and a market for the oats grown by the farmer. We are making a serious mistake in abolishing horse-drawn transport. Nobody was more delighted than I was to be present at the inauguration of our worthy President last week but I was both sick and sorry at the sight of the mechanised escort provided for him——

——instead of the valuable horses that are bred in Deputy Kennedy's constituency and in every constituency throughout the country.

Who did away with the horses?

The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is scarcely responsible for that matter.

The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, I suspect—I will accept that I am wrong if he denies it —is encouraging the restriction of even the limited horse-drawn transport that serves the City of Dublin. If that is so, I object and strongly protest against such a proposal and against every proposal that will encourage the use of imported motor cars, imported petrol, rather than horses. Horse transport brings in its train useful employment to many sections of citizens. I will stop at that and let my old friend Deputy Kennedy defend the mechanisation of transport in the case of the Post Office and in the case of the escort for our worthy President when he goes on tour around the city or country.

The Deputy is on the wrong horse.

I hope that when the Deputy becomes Lord Mayor of Dublin, which I know is his desire, he will not be surrounded by a mechanised escort when he goes around the city.

Deputy Davin is straying from the Estimate.

I am sorry. I fell for this new member, who is over-enthusiastic when he performs his duty, particularly by way of interrupting Deputies like myself.

The Deputy was on the wrong mare.

The Deputy's turn will come. He can get up after me and give us the benefit of his up-to-date views on the question of horse-drawn transport versus mechanised transport in the City of Dublin.

You were never on a horse in your life.

The Deputy is making a grave mistake when he suggests that. When I was a young lad, and that is a long time ago——

That does not arise.

——before I got my breakfast I had to go out and feed horses and cattle. That is a thing the Deputy never did and perhaps is not fit to do. I have made representations on many occasions for the extension of the telephone service. I have no serious complaint to make in the matter. It is a question of organisation, I suppose. But I cannot understand why an application for the installation of a telephone in the City of Dublin area cannot be met inside a period of 12 months or six months or, at any rate, a much shorter period than must elapse in the case of rural areas. In the case of an application in my constituency I can understand that, when the engineering staff have provided all the telephones that have been applied for in a particular area, any application that comes in after that could not be dealt with immediately. It is not feasible to go back immediately to the area to deal with one application. In a well-organised, concentrated area, such as the City of Dublin, where there are mobile gangs, it should be possible to provide telephones within a couple of months of application. I would like to hear the Minister's explanation of that matter. In the case of people who apply for new telephones, especially if they are on the priority list, an attempt should be made by the engineering department to meet such applications in a concentrated area like Dublin in a much shorter period than has been the case recently. I am speaking from knowledge and experience gained as a result of making representations to the Minister's Department in this matter.

Could I encourage the Minister also to provide better telephone facilities after normal working hours through the sub-offices in rural areas? What is the objection to using the sub-offices after, say, 10 o'clock at night? Is it based on finance? These men and women who operate the sub-offices in rural areas are not too highly paid. Some of them get miserable allowances. The sub-offices in rural areas should be used as far as is reasonably possible to provide whatever facilities may be required in cases of urgency. I would ask the Minister to look into that matter.

I would also ask the Minister to go as far as he possibly can in the extension of daily deliveries and in that case as well as in an extension of the telephone service to do whatever he can to provide for all sections of citizens the services that are provided in centres of large populations.

In connection with the use of mechanised transport for rural deliveries and the danger of unemployment as a result, I do not think that it is the wish or the objective of the Department to create any such effect. I have discussed the matter with a number of postmasters in connection with the improvement of deliveries and they have assured me that mechanisation will not result in unemployment or dislocation of employees.

There is one thing that I do resent. I object to postmasters splitting hairs in estimating the time it takes a postman to do his daily delivery. Such tactics, for the purpose of saving a very small sum, should not be encouraged. When the postmaster does the route normally taken by a postman he may find that the delivery takes half an hour less than the postman normally takes and the postman's pay is cut accordingly. That is not a very high standard to adopt. Postmen are not highly paid and many of them have no sideline from which to augment their income.

Deputy Davin was quite right when he referred to the abolition of horse-drawn transport in Dublin. We all regret the disappearance from the streets of the picturesque equine outfit of the Post Office. I am afraid we must bow to the march of time in this regard as in other matters. The time will come when even the subject of cruelty to horses will cease to be raised at Question Time.

We will have no Minister for Agriculture then.

We had a Minister who did not encourage the use of the horse in agriculture. He was very vociferous on that subject.

Deputy Everett described the Minister's statement as a gloomy one. I cannot see that the description is correct. I do not think there was anything gloomy about it. In fact I was pleasantly surprised and encouraged by the fact that the Minister did foresee the time when he hoped that the deficit would be rectified. It is only what one would expect from a person with the business aptitude of the Minister. I have no doubt that he will be able and that he has been applying his business ability to making the Post Office a paying proposition. We have enough deficits in Government Departments without having the Post Office winding up each year with a deficit. If the Minister can see his way to make it a business proposition and a paying one, let him go ahead. I do not believe any Deputy will say "nay" to him. He should get every support in making it a business proposition and a paying one at that.

If it becomes a paying one, I feel that it will be no less efficient in the service it gives because of that.

I was very glad to hear from the Minister the details of the cost of the installation of telephones generally. I was quite unaware of the magnitude of the expenditure in that regard. It has made me, and I am sure it will make everybody else, a lot more appreciative of the service and also appreciative of the Minister's difficulties in satisfying everybody in regard to the installation of telephones. I was also pleasantly surprised, although I was aware that an improvement had been effected, that 171 telephones had been installed in sub-post offices. It is most pleasant to think that a step in this direction has been taken and shows signs of being pursued, as the Minister stated that there were 500 outstanding and that he hoped to install them within the next two years. It is certainly an encouragement to people in the rural areas to look forward to the end of their isolation even in the space of two years. Despite the magnitude of the cost. I have no doubt that this social service. as I regard it, will make a fruitful return in time and enable the Post Office to stand on its own legs.

Regarding kiosks in sub-post offices. I do not think the Minister need worry about them at all. People are quite satisfied to have a telephone anywhere in a post office until such time as it becomes possible to have kiosks erected without any great expenditure. They are expensive to erect. But conversations in country places are not that dreadfully secret. Perhaps the most that one might divulge is what one fancies for such a race on such a date.

As to kiosks in rural areas, we are rather behind the times in this regard as compared even with our Six County neighbours. We find them scattered here and there throughout the countryside. They are a great help and provide encouragement and safety for the people, as well of course as the telephones in the sub-post offices. It is a great thing that the people should have a feeling of security that in times of need they are at least within striking distance of doctors or clergymen.

I am all out for farmers getting the benefit of the telephone service. I know that a number have applied for telephones and that the Minister has been most sympathetic in regard to it, particularly where the farmer is giving employment to a number of people over and above those whom he employs on the farm by carrying on a side line. If he can show evidence in that regard, I know that his application is most sympathetically considered. As against that, I think it was Deputy Davin stated that the farmer is quite happy if he feels that the telephone is within striking distance until such time as the Department finds itself in a position to give telephones to those who want them.

There is another point to which I should like to draw the Minister's attention in connection with the kiosks. Deputy Dockrell referred to the notice which is in the kiosks. The notice says that local calls are limited to five minutes but it does not say how long is given for non-local calls. It says that pips will start at four and a half minutes after the local call commences and that you will be cut off at the end of five minutes. But there are no warning pips for a long distance call. There is no provision made to indicate to the person telephoning as to how long his call will last. I understand that generally it is three minutes, but there is no notice to that effect. Not alone that, but when the three minutes are up you appear to get summarily disconnected and, as has happened to myself on many occasions and to others desirous of renewing a call, you are given no opportunity of having the extra money ready. If the Minister could make some arrangement in regard to this matter it would be a very good thing to have notice of that in case a person might desire to renew a call so that he should have the exact money ready. It is most unpleasant to have to go out to look for change and then come back and get reconnected again. I think that could be simplified.

I should also like to contribute my meed of praise to the Minister for the manner in which he has speeded up trunk calls. It is most pleasant now when one wants to get a trunk call to find on inquiring how long it will take that you are asked just to hold on or, if that is impossible, you are agreeably surprised to find that it will only take a very short time, that you will not have to go away and come back to the kiosk. That has been a very great improvement generally. As one who has had occasion once or twice to complain of delay in this matter, I should like to pay tribute to the courtesy and co-operative attitude of the operators generally and those in my own town who bear so patiently with my impatience. I should also like to pay a tribute to the Minister's desire to make this service, not alone an attractive one, but a profitable one.

I am glad to see that during the period of office of the last Minister and of this Minister as well the telephone service has been expanding, but I feel that it is not expanding rapidly enough. The details of the Estimate and the Minister's statement go to show that the telephone service is the only one of these services which is showing a profit. In many parts of the country, and particularly in my own district, innumerable people are looking for telephones. That they are not able to receive service is not, I realise, the fault of the Minister or anybody else. It is probably due to lack of sufficient staff for the installing of telephones and I think it would be a very good thing if more money were expended on procuring staff, if such staff are procurable, for this purpose and if we went ahead as quickly as possible with the installing of public telephones in every village in Ireland.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
Top
Share